PARLIAMENT.

Oamaru Mail, Volume IV, Issue 1319, 14 August 1880, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

Wellington, August 13 In the Legislative Council to-day, Mr. Waterhouse gave notice to move that in the opinion of this Council the New Plymouth Harbor Board should be called upon to refund the land fund receipts they have spent contrary tq law, and "that failing the refqnd, members should be proceeded against individually to recover the money, Tke Debtors and Creditors Act Amendment Bill was read a second time ; Crown Grants Act Amendment Bill, and the Inch-Olutha Amendment Bill were read a third time and passed. A number of small Bills were dealt with in Committee, and a large amount of minor business disposed of. The Council rose at 4455 p.m. In the Hoqset of Representatives to? All the questions set dawn on the Order Paper were postponed at the suggestion of tne Government until next sitting day, The adjourned debate on going into supply on Mr. Pyke's amendment re the Railway Commission was resumed by Mr. Wright, who s\id he was perfectly well aware that he would have a very hard task indeed if he undertook to convince all the disappointed members that the labors of the Commission w§re fair and impartial. Referring to the Otago Central Railway, he said most of the members of the Commission were disappointed in finding how very little the interior of Otago had to justify railway construction. All the recommendations of the Commission had been unanimous, both in that and every other instance. The Commission condemned a scheme strong'y advocated by the late Premier, as well as one advocated by the' present Premier. Then, again, they condemned a project in which the of the Oomin'saion himself had long taken an interests—one of • the proposed Nelson lines, In making their estimate it waa necessary for them to ascertain whether the land would warrant the cost proposed ; that was, whether it was land like that between Newmarket and Riverhead, which would carry a beast to the square mile, or like that between Wanganui and Hawera, which would carry a beast to the acre. It had been stated to the House that the cost of working the Dunedin station for a certain period was L 909, while the cost of the Christchurch one was LI2OO. That was a wilful perversion of the truth, as the guards u v ere included in the one case and not in the other. The Commissioner found out the

truth soon after the statement was made, but took no steps to correct the mis-state-ment. He feared that this same officer had misled the Minister of Public Works in more than this. Mr. Seddon had charged the Commission with not having taken any evidence in Hokitika, but that was not the case. He had heard of rotten boroughs, but iti Westland ho had seen such boroughs for the first time, and these were the places they were complained against for not having recommended for railway communication. He denied that they ever attempted to delegate their authority in that place to others to take evidence. It had also been stated by the member for Rodney that they had never visited that district at all. After tracing their movements in that locality he went on to say that on making inquiry as to whether they could get through to that particular district, they were told it was quite impossible, even although they were to attempt it on their hands and knees. The proposal to make a railway to Whangarei was about one of the maddest projects ever heard of, as the district was supplied with splendid water carriage. In fact they had seen quite enough to justify the conclusions at which they arrived. Mr. Sheehan had complained that the report was calculated to revolutionise the Public Works policy. He looked upon that as one of the highest compliments to their labors. It was that Public Works policy which required revolutionising, and unless it was revolutionised it would be a bad thing for the Colony. Mr. Grisborne had talked about the Commission scouring the country. It was not necessary that they should haye proceeded at a snail's pace to ascertain what they required. Certain members had condemned the work in anticipation, particularly the member for Dunstan. He (Mr. Pyke) had charged them with ruralising when'they were in his district. He could recall the fact of some travelling theatrical company being in the district at the time, and when they inquired as to the whereabouts of that hon. gentleman they found he was starring the Vincent county with the prima donna of the troupe. Charity, they say, began at home, and he would leave the House to judge how far charitable intentions had to do with the proceedings of the hon. gentleman and the prima donna. The Commissioners had gone through the Hindon Gorge—a portion of the route proposed for the Otago Central line—and yet the fact was, the Engineer-in-Chief had never been through that gorge himself. After - making every possible enquiry, he had come to the conclusion that it would be

better for the Colony to make a present of the whole district to any company that would undertake to make the line rather than that the Colony should go to the cost of the work itself. Referring to the Wellington and Foxton Rail way, he said in dealing with this question the member for Rangitikei spoke on the subject as if the shortest route to his own door was all that had to be considered. He apprehended there were other questions to be kept in view. • They had to consult the interests of the Hawke'a Bay district. All the benefit it would be to Foxton was that it would give them a distance of 30 miles. 2fow it would pay the Government to carry the productions of Foxton settlers free of charge rathey than incur the responsibility of that route. The country between Masterton and Woodville was worth all the line of country between this and Foxton. The value of land in the Masterton-Woodville line was about equal to that of four to one of the other. He was not at all astonished that young and inexperienced members should do things they would not otherwise do were it not to themselves right with their , constituents, but for an old and experienced statesman like Sir William Fox to do so he was utterly disappointed. Then, again, the line was complete to Masterton, and they could very well direct further traffic on to. that line so as to make it pay better. He was disappointed with the Public Works Statement. Had ; the report been adopted in its entirety it would have been much better. He was afraid the Minister for Public Works laid too much stress on the coal measures of the country and too little on the agricultural interests* The Statement, to his mind, showed the over-ruling influence of I the Engineer for the Middle Island in i support of that view. He mentioned the | Otautau and Nightcaps line, andLumsden to Mararoa. Both of these were worthless works compared with others in the district recommended by the Commission. The secret was that these two lines were favorite projects with the Engineer-in- | Chief for the Middle Island. The two : lines which ought to have been done * .rere the Riverton-Qrepuki and EdendaleFortross, These were lines which would have paid, whereas the payable prospects of those provided for were very doubtful. He again referred to the Central Otago. The first estimate of the cost of that line to Cromwell was L 600,000. The next year they got an estimate for the s inie work, carrying it on to Albert Town, 18 miles further, for His estimate, however, was that it would not be short of L 1,5.00,000. Now he oontended that they would not be justified in incurring such an expense simply to open up 212,000 acres of land; for that in reality was the main contention in its favor. He thought that the Minister for Public Works had not sufficiently explained many of his proposals. He mentioned the very large aun> of money proposed to be spant o,n the lino. It wag ths mo3|"e necessary tha,t they should ha,ve explicit information as to the data of this work, seeing that a distinguished member ei the Executive was personally interested in the work. The estimated cost by Mr. Blair of the Greymouth harbor works was L 600,000, and, judging from the character of the estimates made by that gentleman in conjunction with other works, the probability was that the cost would be veyy much more. He took it that tha,t expenditure was wholly unAgain, there wove wharves at \'\ r -ellington, Bluff, and Foxton which were in excess of tha requirements of those p.lace§. It wj\s high time that this veoklessness should be .checked. The Commission recommended that the railways should be removed fvom political influence. They had strong evidenoe of the necessity for that, He suggested that, if no better scheme could be devised, he was in favor of allowing all the employes to share in, the profits over 4 per cent. He ventured to say that an arrangement o,f that kind would have the effect of bringing about a great i.U. tfte economic and efficient t worl'ing of the lines. If the motion was \ carried it would reflect more upon the t House than upon the Commission.

Mr. Barron quoted from the report of the Select Committee re the O.fcago Central Railway to show that the report of the Commission was in error. A few weeks ago some of the poorest land in the district—more hill tops—had been sold at 1 20s per acre. Mr. Macandrew did not consider ths opinion of the Commission in any respect better than that of any other member. PJis own opinion, far as the Otago Central Railway was concerned, ought to be of greater importance than that of the gentlemen who simply made a hurrifed run through the district. His contention was that if the country was fit for settlement it was fit for a railway, and population was bound to come. The Shag Point line was mentioned as an unpi-oductive, lino for which Government had paid L 17,000. That was altogether wrong. The cost was LB2OO, and the money had been, paid, not by Government, but by the Coal Mine Company. That line had paid very well. Over 150 tons of coal went over i>t daily, and it had saved Government thousands of pounds per annum in the supply of coal for locomotive purposes. Reverting to the Otago Central line, he said that they had abundance of evidence in favor

of the line, far more than would "overton that by the Railway Commission. R agreed with the resolution, and ho could not well see how any hop. member could dissent from it. The invidious comparison that had been made between the workin of Dunodin and Christchurch stations were but very small affairs. The roforeii Co to the railway guards he did not q U i ta understand, but he supposed it must hav been a mistake on the part of the who furnished the data. r

Mr. Wright explained that Government had furnished the Commission with pat. ticulars of all proposals for railways before commencing its duties. ' Mr. Oliver read the following telegram from the Commissioner of Sonth Island Railways (Mr. Conyers) : " Dunedin 11-8-80. Hon. Minister for Public Works' Wellington.—Mr. Richardson stated in the House that I had deliberately altered figures representing cost of working the Christchurch and Dunedin passenger stations. This I positively deny. Every return or statement supplied is, so far as I have the means of knowing, correct. The accountant first supplied me with the cost of working the stations, both having been prepared in Christchurch. Th a Dunedin manager was called upon to correct the Dunedin one. He said the accountant had included all the employe on the station-master's pay-sheet, including shunters, lovel crossing-keepers guards, &c., not connected with the working of the passenger station. Tlio manager's correction was telegraphed, his veracity being undoubted. After my return, the accountant was telegraphed direct from Wellington for his figures, and he, of course, replied the same as ho had sent me. This accounts for the apparont discrepancy. (Signed) W. Conyers. Mr. Richardson said he would not have mentioned the matter had he not beon challenged to name a case of inaccuracy on the part of the Commissioner. Mr. Saunders said, Royal Commissioners were carefully selected for their special fitness for the work. They were enabled to go about and see for themselves that what was stated was correct. He was much struck by the remark by the member for Coleridge when he stated that the j®. commendation made by Committees invariably leant in the direction of works in which some big man was specially interested. Ho could not imagine how a Commission could have been selected with more care than the Railway Commission, and he looked on their report as more dis* interested than the recommendations of a Select Committee, any civil servant, or yet any Minister of the Crown. Mr. Brandon said the evidence taken by the Commissioners was at variauce with the judgment given by these gentlemon, Mr. Colbeck described the report as a, most unjustifiable one as regarded th& north of Auckland railway. Mr. Johnston spoke in favor of t!k> Wellington-Foxton line. Mr. Lundon would support the report, as from his knowledge of the north ho thought the report a fair and honest one.

Major Atkinson had listened with plea* sure to the speech of the member fop Coloridge. Ho did not seem to. impute to Government blame for entering into the contract for the Kawaksvwa line, and reducing freights on the Waikato lini\ The hon. member was not justified itt imputing wrong doing in the nv&tfcor simply because the Attorney-General had, had some connection with the, company years ago. He had no doubt but that tly* recommendation was wise*, and Uiolt neither directly nor indirectly ha si the Attorney-General anything tu do with it. Generally speaking the report was valuable. He was like others—he was pointed that the line between Stratford and Waverly had not been recommoadledk. : Still he was not one who would say tbait the Commission had not given the mattoif that careful consideration which would warrant them in setting the report aside. He hoped they would seo their way to reject the motijon of the member foe ihoj Dunstan by a large majority. The, tyoin-. , mission had only done the duty t\v?y- were. ! appointed to. If anyone was to. blame it. was the Government by whom they wort) appointed, and the resolutions ought,, properly speaking, to, be directed againsft the Government, and not against tho Commission,

Mr Montgomery said the members of the Commission were most respectable gentlemen, men of experience, who worked hard in tho work devolving upon theuv The member for Coleridge was an expert, and from him above all other men a. reliable report was to be looked Joiv He could not understand how the Houso should think about passing a vote of censure upon such men.. If' there was anything wrong it was not the Commission that was to blame, but the Government by whom they were appointed. He expected a different Public. Works Statement from the o,ne they had got. They knew money was scarce, but still they ox-> pected something more than a mere styiug; of memos. Regarding the sum oi> faatidj for native land purchases, ho ventured to, say there was no such intention on tho part of the Government to ; spend tlia& money on native lands. What was iitV' tended was to keep it over, and next session, when they- were about to go to the country, that money would be a very neat sum to. have ai their backs. Mr. Hall moved that the debate b<a journe,d. The motion for adjournment on a division of 21 to 34.

Major Atkinson moved that all tho other orders of the day be. adjourned, so, as to allow them bifing on the Hospitals and Charitable Institutions EilU Mr. Pyke objected. He said ho had already charged the Governmeut with not being able to lead the House. He now charged them with misleading the Houso. The debate Just adjourned would be brought tip again and kept on all day oil Monday. Major Harris said that the Government ought to have time to consider thoir posi-. tion, to see whether they could face House any longer. This debate w'oUtM renewed, and then the Public "VYorks Estt' mates would come on, when the Qovovoment were, as asleep on tho benches.

The Houso divided, tho result being —> Ayes, 37 5 noea, 87. Mr. She eh an moved tho adjournment of the House.

Mr. Shephard supported th,& adjourn-, meat.

Mr. Pyke asked the Government to say what they really m.eant to do. They sat there and did not seem, to know what they were about. The position was a most ox* tvs,ors;\inary one. ! The motion for adjournment waalost oo a division of 33 to 32. Mr. Shrimski hoped Qov-ernmenA would give in now. Thoy hi\d only a majority of one. He had, been there till 3 ojclock this and back at 11 o'clock 1 to-day.. It was much too severe —no , man oould stand it. Mr. Turnbull said it was quite evido n «' 110 business could bo gone on with thaft night—they had bettor adjourn* Mr. Seddon said Government had pro* mised to adjourn at 13 o*clock —it waa now only ten minutest to 12, and whafc could they possibly do in that time?. Mr. Bunny that tho debate be now adjourned. He was a supporter or the yet he told them that, wi,th thoiij" majority of ono, thoy would; be able to do nothings ilr. Reeves waa sorry to see the humiliating position of" tho Government, ana did not bolieyo it had any precedent in parliamentary experience. Ha hoped tae Premier would show that he had aoiu® good common sense left. . A Mr. Hamlin said ho was not a suppor of the Government, but; ths . ¥n the hon. gentleman opposite lea him 9 gitfQ them es support.