PARLIAMENT.

Oamaru Mail, Volume IV, Issue 1315, 24 June 1880, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

- MS'Wt:\ \ '' l ■ Wellington, Jane 23. In the Legislative Council to-day, Colonel Brett gave notice to move for the production of all - the papers in connection with the late Volunteer outrages. Sir F. Bell stated that the West Coast woul d send ill fiiial^re'tlhtpugh »ihe wide of the be,gone into. TKe"iHapbnnding Bill was read a thirdr time. '' A vlj .\ .Colonel—Whitmore-,movedJthe._se.cond, reading of the Moorhouse Services Re-, cognition Bill. . fAfter a discussion the Bill was thrown "out by 19 to 9. . ! ;Oa the motion to go into committee on the Deceased Wife's Sister Bill, the opponents of the measure obstructed its progress by various means, asserting that it: was attempted to be hurried through while those most opposed to it were away, not knowing it would be brought on. Ultimately, after much discussion, and half-a-dozen divisions, in two of which the Speaker was obliged to give a casting Vote, the committal of the measure was postponed to July J, fop which date Mr. Meczies gave notice for a call" of the Council. . . The Couiicil rose at 5.

In the House of Representatives today, . j Mr. Macandrew asked the Government j if the. whole of the evidence upon which 1 the report of the Royal Commission of the Civil Service is formed will be laid before this House, and when; also if they will be good enough to lay before this House a return showing the nature and extent of which the. Commissioner of Railways for the Middle Island is alleged to be a partner; also whether or not before the report was presented, the Commissioner of Railways had an opportunity of rebutting the charges and imputations made against him, Mr. Oliver replied that the evidence had not been received by the Government!, and they did not know the intention of the Commission on the subject, and they had no information as to the other queries put. Mr. Brown moved an adjournment of the House, and in doing go insisted that it was of the utmost importance that the evidence in question should be produced. Mr. : Gisborne said the Government should insist upon the evidence, The Civil Service Oomipission made a most alarming report, and the country had a right to know whether the report was based on reliable evidence. Mr. Macandrexv said he felt surprised at the reply made by the Government. If the statements made by the report were tpue the South Isiaud Railway Commissioner should be discharged. Mr. Oliver said it was to be presumed some portion of the .evidence-would be produced. They had instructed the South Island Commissioner to make a full report, in which <;ase they would' have his statement on the point, | Mr. Speight said this was one of the ' first results of government by commission. The House ought at once to be informed whether the Commission had finished its work or not. He thought Parliament was entitled to have every particle of the evidence made public. 3Jr. peeves concurred, adding that it was understood the Commission had resigned, and every opportunity should be given the officers whose characters were assailed to clear themselves of the aspersions thrown on them.

[ Mrl Murray pointed out that the House was prejudging a case that was still under consideration.

Mr. Trimble said after the labors of the Commission had been concluded would be time enough to call for the evidence.

-Mr. Moss said there was a statement made in the report-not only affecting the professional, but the personal character of "men in responsible positions. He'thought, seeing there'was no evidence in support of the report,'the report itself should be thrown out of doors. He knew of his own knowledge, that secret evidence had been taken, evidence which would not bear the scrutiny of public opinion. Mr. Hall thought it was a pity this discussion should be revived at this particular mordent. It would have to be discussed, and when all the documents would be laid on the table would be the proper time. He apprehended the evidence would be forthcoming. He had no reason to doubt but that all the evidence on which the report is based would be. forwarded to the Government, who would lay it on the table. He did not say that the Government agreed with all that was set forth in the report; still he would say that it contained many valuable suggestions. Mr. de Lautour said that the report had been in a manner tampered with. It had been published on Saturday morning in Wellington, Auckland, Christchurch, and Dunedin, so that it must have been forwarded by telegram iiot later than 10 o'clock'the preyio'ug eyening, hoops before it. was laid 011 the table of the House. He moved as an amendment to the motion for adjournment, of the evidence be furnished to those officers whose conduct is impugned. The Speaker ruled this out of order. Mr. Seddon said the service was corrupt as shown by report. Time after time the Government has been challenged in connection, with the Civil Service, and now that they, had got a report on it, the House appeared to regret having called for it. Considering the'state of the colony, and the heavy burden of taxation they had to fa,cp, it was! rQonstrous for members' to take up the position they did on this occasion.

Captj'Russell spoke in favor of the evidence being published. He was glad to hea* what the Premier .had said. He hoped he would now 1 tell- them that every tittle of evidence would be published. Those who gave evidence and were afraid to have it known were cowards. Mr. Qliver said as soon as the evidence was sent them he voujd furnish a copy ,to the officers implicated. He had now reason to believe that the evidence would be forthcoming from the Commissioners. Mr. Stewart quoted Parliamentary authority to show that the Government was not bound to produce the evidence soijghfci He could imagine cases where opinion. jyqijld be withheld if it was known ( that superior officers were to have information on the point, Mr. Andrews supported the proposal that the evidence be published, Mr. Hutchison said all the work was being made about two Railway Commissioners and some others. Now these were highly paid men, and was it because they were highly, paid that all this work was being made aboV}t the* evidence. If that was the way they wore going tq carry out their professions of economy, he pitied the country. Mr. said this was Just a sa'hiple of what they might expect if the (government attempted to interfere with the Ciyil. Service. He believed that the Railway Commissioner of the &OUth Jsland would come out of the inquiry better thg,n they imagined. In this case the parties cohr perned fiould very easily cigar themselves without all this trouble. It would turn out that the railway services'had been a' ; sort of relief for the destitute. It had not always been the fault of the Railway Comr missioxier, but men had been thrust upon them by other iufluences, Mr. Barron said that, considering the nature of the charges made against the South Island Commissioner, he thought it was but right that they should have full details. If that charge was t*U correct, }ie should not be kept one day jn the service': of the Government.

Mr. Johnston thought it was improper for the Government to lay the report

< t r j ~ r ' ~ * r before Parliament' until they Bad the' evidence. ' . , _ Mr. Pyke filso supported that view of the question. T&ey were sitting-there to some extent as a jury, and in- that capa-' city it was necessary, they should have the whole of the evidence before them. He contended'that the report itself showed that it was-^ctefective," -If "admitted ."that exhaustively. Unless the evidence was putforward, the report was nothing else against the South Islands Commissioner was false, that 'dntitrled to thfe largest "court" of-law would award him. . «

Mr. Rolleston said he had no doubt but that the evidence would be produced, and that the fullest possible opportunity would be afforded officers implicated to rebut the charges made. The report in a garbled form had been actually stolen, and in that form it appeared in print some days before it was sent in. The Government was,. not responsible for that, ...... Sir George Grey denied that the Opposition was standing in the way of making retrenchment. He. took, it that a fair inquiry should have been made into all the counts of the case where charges were made against officers.. The service, contained men of high ability and integrity, and these accusations would tend'- to damage the character of: the service, if the names were withheld, an injustice would be done to the service. Everyone would be blamed for the objectionable evidence ;given, whiph would have the effect of wholly disorganising, the service; Such being the case, it was to be hoped the evidence would be forthcoming. He was glad to hear that the Government was not privy to the -premature publication of. •the report, and : that its. publication was facilitated by a'fraud.

Major Atkinson was glad the House took such deep interest in the character of the Civil Service, though the debate had proceeded on a false issue. Bid anyone know whetheror not the Commission did give a copy of the evidence to the officers implicated 1 They were hound to assume that the Commission had done its duty, and the report was basedvon the most decided evidence. His opinion was that it was persons connected with the service, and net the service itself that the Opposition was so -solicitous about. The purport of the report had got into the papers, and it was then the business of the Government to have the report itself placed before tfie country at the very earliest moment.' _

Mr. Montgomery said that they had got out of Government that the report was stolen, and that the theft had been made for publication purposes ,in the Government newspapers. He hoped -that the evidence would be published; ; -Had the Minister for Public Works made his reply as full as the Premier subsequently made it, all; this debate would have been avoided. '

The motion for the, adjournment ,was, then put and negatived on the voices.. Dr. -Wallis gave notice that he would ask the Government to state for the information of the House at what hour copies of the Civil Service report had been. furnished for transmission by telegraph to the Auckland Herald, Christchurcli Press, and Ocago Daily Times, and given to the New .Zealand Times. Mr. Jones gave,notice that he would ask what steps had been taken to discover and punish the culprit who is 'alleged to have stolen a copy of the Civil Commissioners' report, as stated. , Mr. Gisborne asked whether the report of the Civil Service Commission is considered by Government to be an interim or final report. Mr. Hall replied that the Commission had been returned, and that it had no longer an official existence. In reply to Mr. Stewart, as to whether Government will support an amendment of the law, so that persons sustaining loss from the ignorance or carelessness of telegraph officials may obtain compensation, Mr. Hall said telegraph regulations all over the world protected themselves against such loss, and it would entail a much heavier charge for messages if such, a responsibility were to be accepted. The debate on the no-confidence motion was resumed bv

Mr. Thomson, who contended that it was the people of New Zealand, and not any particular Government who were responsible for the present depression. He never was a supporter of Sir Julius "Vogel, but he was alive to the fact that had his policy, a3 originally propounded, been carried out in its integrity, the depression would not have been so keenly felt. What he proposed was that a sum of L8,5d0,00Q should be borrowed, extending over a period of ten years, but that was very soon departed from. He charged the Government with attempting to effect an apparent saving by. transferring sums to next year's account. Retrenchment, he admitted, was a difficult question to deal with, but what he complained of was that they took credit for making savings in the expenditure; which was not actually the case. He wa3 not anxious to see the Govern? ment driven from the benches. The principle of making. distriots answerable for deficiency in the- working of district railway lines ought to have beien insisted upon. It was the only plan that would have prevented indiscriminate scrambling for lines. He did not think the property tax was needed. .The land tax yielded L 100,009, and had it been raised from a half-penny to a penny, the amount yielded would be L 200,000. He deprecated the proposal to knock;off borrowing money altogether j th§ would be too great, They should "borrow, say, half a million a year, and that would prevent the reaction from the late borrowing system, being felt so severely*. , Mr. Whitaker moved that the House adjourn. The importance of the question at issue, coupled with the state of the House, • justified the proposal. It was well known that certain festivities were going on, which was th@ Tgagoij 30 were absent.

Major Harris opposed the adjournment, and Mr, BJacandpew supported It, Mr. Turnbull objeoted ko tho adjournment, and speaking to it, proceeded to discuss the main ' question. He blamed the Government for not bringing, down more information, so as to enable them to go on with the debate properly.- In grappling with the difficulty into which thq Qolooy had fallen, the had not shown sufficient courage, Instead of talking so much about the difficulties, if they had set about quietly to reotify the evil, they would have; done far more real good. Public credit was a-very-delicate thing, and was easily, destroyed. He blamed the Treasuuer, by his injudicious alarm, for having injured public credit. Any number of promises weremade steps being taljan pouqteyaqt the pvil, but as yet he cquld not see that anything had been done towards, redeeming these promises, fie did not propose. to follow the course pursued byr sq many members, of calling qui in dolorous accents. What he proposed doing .rtvas tp assist the Government 'ip doing that which thev had so long neglected'"doing, vig., to rectify the evil* as it ; existed. If Government would only bring down bold' .measures, they would all be, -prepared to •assjst them. . The first means forre-estab-lishing matters -involved. the^question, pf taxation. They should fyst of all daoide on a permanent form of taxation, and for th-t reason he advocated a land tax in preference to the -property tax. The former was a more, permanent subject for taxation than the .other., The Apyoperfcy tax itseJf ber}flU,oh move aooepwtble :to the people if- the" imposition on machinery were not enforced. In the way of retrenchment, he said Ministers had acted rightly in reducing or at all events pro-

posing to reduce their own salaries. They should, however, commence at the top of the tree. They should cut down the Governor's salary, say LSOO or L6OO per annum. If they could not do it with this Governor, they should make arrangements for the future. What he would counsel would be to reduce their salarie3 •on a graduating scale, commencing with mg say 2J per cent., but would not add to the^g^neraJ^distre'aa, by. dismissingthese meii !F^'todrmTrck"wa's _ e^ected J'a<r'il:hehahds of the: Government." Theichildren of ; the Colony werenursed in a Government -icradlej- educated. ' at, Government, schools, supported and fostered in' Go- s vernment offices, and buried in Government coffins.;;. The. motion for adjournment was then put and carried, and at 10.20 the House adjpurnedi.