PARLIAMENT.

Oamaru Mail, Volume IV, Issue 1308, 16 June 1880, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

Wellington, June 15.

•Ittthe Legislative Councilto-day,y Captain Fraser, in moving for a return, said the Mines Department was worked very badly, and detailed two fatal accidents, the result bf non-enforcemSnt of regulations. The Inspectors of Mines were given ho power to sue breakers of the law, and the whole question demanded reform.

In moving 'the second reading of the Gaming arid Lotteries Mir Whitaker gave notide of a tiew clause prohibiting the totalisator "except to responsible racing clubs. The Bill was read a second tinie.

In the Rouse of Eeprsisentaiives today.

Mr. Sutton presented a petition from the Municipal Council of Napier praying that the subsidies njight be continued for the

Mr. J. B. Fisher drew the attention of the Government to the fact that the statutes, of the last two sessions had not been gazetted in terms of the law, and suggested grave doubts whether they were really in forpe. Hr. Hall replied he was much indebted to him for calling attention to the subject, qnd that it would have' the immediate attention of the rnment.

Mr. de Lautour asked whether the Government are aware that Mr. R. S. Thomson, Government interpreter, attached to Col. Roberts' staff, had beep employed by the Press Association, and the New Zealand Times, a."newspaper, a 8 correspondent while engaged in the Government service. • . -- f

Mr, Bryce replied that it was not necessary for him to qualify his previous answer, since they' had received communication from Mr. G.tllpn, manager of the Press Association, to tl*e effect that Mr, Thomson had "some ago ceased to be correspondent of the Association, and that'he -was not in the employment of the Government when first engaged as correspondent. He (Mr. Bryce) was not aware that Mr. Thomson had evgr acted as correspondent of the New Zealand Times.

Mr. Moss asked whether the Royal Commission on tjje Ciyil Service 'is authorised, amongst other: duties, to inquire how far the cost of the service might be reduced, and its efficiency increased, by extending local government so as to centralise the administration of railways and other great departments of the public service ; also whether the Royal Commission are likely to make their interim report in time tp enable the Government to say, before the debate on the Financial Statement, to what extent the saving by this or any other, means is iikely 'to be effected. Mr. Hall replied that the instructions to the Commission had been published, and that he understood the report of the Commission would be before the House in the course of a week.

Mr. Turnbull asked (1), under what authority the Government advanced L 40,000 as stated in the Financial Statement to be temporary advances on the debentures of the Waimea Railway Company. (2) Whether the Government are advised that clause 32 of " the Public Revenues Act, 1879," gives power to make cash advances to district railways.

Major Atkinson replied • under clause 19 of the Public Revenues Act; and with regard to the seGond portion of the question the Government had no advice that it had any power to make the advances referred to. He went on to say that the Government deemed it requisite to make the. advance in question to prevent the debentures going to the English market, New Zealand being pledged to contract no further loans for a period of three years. Replying to Mr, Seddon, Mr. Rolleston said the Government had uo intention this session to bring in a Bill altering theconstitution' of the Waste Lands Boards of the Colony by making them elective or partially so.' Replying to Mr. Whi taker, Mr. Dick said the (government' had no objection to lay before the, House all correspondence having, reference to the classification of wool and the provision for a suitable place for the exhibition of samples of various brands of wool, which passed between the Government apd Albert Potter, of Hamilton, Waikato. .- Replying to Dr. Wallis, Mr. Oliver said that most certainly clause £3 of the general conditions of the Government contracts provided for the payment every fortnight. In the case of workmen's wages it would be enforced.

Replying to Mr. Whitaker, Mr. Oliver said that the vote to increase the pay of employees on the Auckland-Waikak) railway had not been given effect to. The Government had nor. given effect to many similar votes for increases of pay. Mr. Hall said that in consequence of the papers connected with the inscription of the L5,000,G0Q loan. having qnly b,een circulated that day, and as it was necessary that papers should be studied by members before proceeding with the discussion on" the financial proposals, he proposed to defer that discussion, and instead of themthe Native Minister would proceed with the second reading of the Native Land Sales Bill.

Sir George Grey demurred to-the Native Land Sales Bill being taken up until they had the whole of the proposed Native Land legislation before them. Mi*. Seddon also proposed that they should have the local administration measures before discussing the financial proposals,' Major Atkinson said that he had consulted the leader of the Opposition, Mr. Macaiidrew, ias to the postponement of the discussion on 'th6 financial proposals, and he agreed that it should be' delayed in view of the, importance of the- papers laid 011 the table. If, however, that course was objected to, then Government would be prepared to proceed tfith the debate on the financial proposals,' Mr. Macandrew said he had been consulted on the subject, and in view of the importance of members making themselves acquainted with the contents of the correspondence placed * on the table, he thought a postponement' was the best course to follow. <

Mr. Gisborne supported Sir G Greg's proposal, . and- thought the whole native policy should be before them before they proceeded with, the pales Bill. Mr. Bryce said the policy of the Government was before the House. Of. course they could not tell what course the Legislative Council,would adopt„with-the measures now before the Chamber 5 still that did not affect the fact that the whole native policy was before the House.

The motion for going into Committee on the Regulation 1 of Elect ions Bills was then put and carried. In Commif tee, Mr. Hutchison moved an amendment on clause 28, which empowers the Returning Officer .to question the elector as to whether or not he had already voted in this electoral district.

Progress wa3 reported after a time. Mr. Bryce, in moving the second reading of the Native Land Sales Bill, said the law at present was not in a satisfactory condition. The object of the Bill was to simplify these laws. Eacli of the eight Bills brought in embodying the native policy dealt with a different branch of the subject. They had all along gone on the assumption that their policy with respect to native lands must be based on the Treaty of Waitangi. From that time until now it had been deemed, that the fee simple remained in the Crown. Until 1855 there was no regular machinery provided to ascertain the nature of the title. In 1844 some pressure was brought to bear upon the then Governor. He issued a proclamation enabling private parties to

deal in these lands. A few months afterwards he issued a second, proclamation reducing the payment from lOs per acre to';ld for the issue of the Crown grant. The pre-emptive right was resisted by Sir George Grey, the succeeding Governor. The right was maintained till 1855, and he believed they would all agree with him in saying that it was a very great pity that right was not maintained. After that date, the right, of

private persons to purchase these lands was rescued. The next change was in the year 1871, when the public; works policy was inaugurated. At that time and subsequently: as much as three-quarters of a million was appropriated for the purchase of a landed estate in the North Island. Then commenced system which had done more than anything to demoralise the native,, he meant the purchase of native lands by agents. These agents scattered money amongst them like dust, and asked thtm to take rum, and resorted to almost every species of demoralisation, and they had not succeeded in getting the desired reward. One reason why these Government agents did not regard themselves purely as Government agents was that they purchased land, not only for the Government, but also for themselves and thpir friends. The result was that Government got the bad land, and these parties and their friends the good land. These Government agents had not got the reward the evil cqqrses resorted to might have Igd them to expect. In 1876, a "Bill was introduced by the then (government which deserved more credit than it got, but it was too complicated, and it was withdrawn. In 187.7 another Bill was brought in by the same Government. It went in the direction of the free trade and although : aj} improvement upon its predecessor in machinery, it to.b had to be withdrawn. It served one useful purpose —it indicated the direction in which the country wished legislation in native lands; it indicated that the House did not wish free trade in native lands. The Atkinson Government then went out and the Grey Government came in. One object was that it should reform this very practice, and he had no hesitation' in saying that in this respect the Grey Government was an utter failure. It never attempted to deal with the matter until a few days before it went out of office. • He despaired almost of making the House understand the terrible iniquities perpetrated in reoent native lands purchases. He would give them a few examples .of /these iniquitous transactions. The advance system had been the great element in these transactions, and the particular■ mode of making these advances was something atrocious—he meant the system of giving orders on storekeepers. In Tauranga LII.OOO had passed through one Government agent's hands aione-in the space of eighteen months. The process of granting these orders was for the amounts to be left blank in the vouchers, the agent was supplied with funds by an imprest, and when he was called upon to acpount for these sums by tbe auditor, he filled these. vouchers up to suit the occasion. A transaction took place some months ago which induced him to send up and examine the matter at Tauranga, and the result was something' extraordinary. The auditor reported that he had found that moneys charged had never been paid at" all, and where it had-been paid the grossest irregularities had taken plage in connection with these payments. Two items were specified, one for £3O, and the other Ll5O, as much as L 77 of the latter being for spirits and beer consumed at a tangi over the land agent's brother, the late Judge Young. Then again it was stated that the negotiations with the natives were conducted- with the utmost irregularity. He had already said they had been guilty of iniquities, but they had received no equivalent for their trouble. When they came to" settle negotiations connected with these vouchers, on which advances were made, they would most undoubtedly be repudiated, and Government stands to lose a large amount of money. Again, this fund had ndver been closely scrutinised, and it was most grossly abused. ! f a Maori wanted an order to pay his ex-

penses, or to get rum, it was charged

to this fund. The rule was that any questionable payment was charged to this fund especially. He would now refer to

; the West Coast. He did not think the i system of land vouchers obtained there, but all the other objectionable features in the system were observed. The agents . there woqld agree on a price for land ! they had never seen, and which no white ; man could tell them anything about, and they had purchased land the surveyors i now reported to be broken and worthless. The agents had to rely upon the ■ statement as to area. In one case the estimated area was 60,000 acres, but when it came to be surveyed it was found to contain not more than 7000 aores. The result of this was that the money advanced * was far more than the total value of the land was -in- and about Wanganui further up the coast. A gentleman who liad' been treating with the Government got LIQOQ for his alleged interest in a block. That gentler roan was then appointed a land purchase; agent at L4OO a year to complete the purchase of that block, which had not been done yet. More than-that, this gentle-, man was . a storekeeper and the advance made to the Maoris was paid through him; buggies, harness, and other articles purchased - from his store having been supplied in. lieu of the money. The payment of compensation for confiscated land was npxt referred toPayments to the chiefs were made secretly and they were ordered to sign fictitious names to hide the nature of the transaction. A sum of LIOOO, the expenses of a great Maori meeting at Waitara, was provided for in a most extraordinary way. The native agent at Waimate got that amount by imprest, and to satisfy the auditors he got these Maoris' who did not possess an inch of land in the place to sign receipts for the money. What he would contend for was, that the whole system was demoralising, and that they would not reap the expected benefit from their .efforts. They must do away with the old system. No system could possibly be devised that could work worse than the present system. The preemptive right was in his opinion the best device that could be resorted to, but it would be impossible now to carry that out. . Free trade in, native lands was equally untenable. What then remained for them to adopt ? He believed that the only valid system was that contained in the Bill the second reading of which he now proposed...." The great object should be to settle these lands, and. he contended that the Bill before the House was a step in that direction. Jt wag, he thought, ±he best law that could be devised -under the circumstances. -It was true that the Maoris-might not be disposed to place their lands in-the hands of the Waste Lands Board. To ma¥e it popular with the Maoris it was proposed to enable tliem to make reasonable advances upon the 'ands. As regards the Maoris themselves, it would eventually be a very great relief to them. It would' save them from the perpetual annoyances of those persons who were always after them for their lands. He detailed the features of the Bill, and concluded by moving the second reading. Major Te Wheoro moved the adjournment of the debate.

Mr. Hamlin, in seconding the motion for adj ournmen t, said they had heard something from the mover which they would much like to enquire into. Then, again, they wanted to have the other measures, to see their effect upon the whole question of native policy. He hoped the Government would not object to the motion. . -

Mr. Macandrew supported the motion for adjournment. The measure was" one which required calm consideration,

•. Mr. Gisborne said the, Native Minister had quoted from a document now before this House, and that itself was a reason for asking the adjournment; Sir G. Grey said the speech had been chiefly an attack upon other- persons, and it was only fair that the late Native Minister should be present before the debate was sone on with.

The motion for adjournment was then put and agreed to, and the debate was adjourned till Friday.

The Native Reserves Bill was withdrawn. The House then went into Committee on the Pharmacy Bill, and, on resuming, was reported with amendments, and ordered to be considered on Friday. The House adjourned at 11.10.