THE LATE FIRE IN THAMES STREET.

Oamaru Mail, Volume IV, Issue 1147, 18 December 1879, Page 2

THE LATE FIRE IN THAMES STREET.

A Coroner's inquiry into the circumstances attending the late fire at Mr. P. R. Russell's shop, Thames-street, was held to-day, before T. W. Parker, Esq., R.M. and Distfict Coroner, and the following jury A. J. S. Headland (foreman), W. H. S. Roberts, G. S. Lintott, J. J. Spence, J. Mainland, W. Smith, W. H. Ronayne, G. Glen, J. Moss, A. Hedley, S. Newey, D. Murray, B. Mollison, and W. Aitken.

Inspector Thompson conducted the inquiry. Mr. Creagh appeared to watch the proceedings on behalf of the National Insurance Company, which held a policy on the building, Mr. Newton on behalf of Mr. Russell, Mr. O'Meagher for the Underwriters' Association, and Mr. Butt, for Messrs. Julius and Balmer, who acted for the New Zealand Insurance Company. After the jury had been sworn, The Coroner said that various reports had been made to him with reference to the fire that had taken place at Mr. Russell's shop on the 13th instant, and from these it appeared that the origin of the fire was wrapt in mystery. It had appeared to him that it was a matter for inquiry, and he had taken upon himself the responsibility of directing an inquiry to be held. The jury then proceeded to view the premises where the fire took place, and on their return to the Courthouse the following evidence was taken : Peter Robinson Russell stated that he was a saddler, carrying on business in Thames-street. He passed through the Insolvent Court some three or four months ago. His stock was then taken possession of by Mr. James Markham, who had a bill of sale over it. The stock was sold to the Union Bank, through Mr. Greenfield, for LIOO. The stock was afterwards re-sold to witness for L 195, by Mr. Greenfield, for the Bank. He received possession of the stock from Mr. Greenfield. Mr. Hodge made some claim to the stock, but ilie Bank refused to let Hodge and Jones have it, and witness gave Hodge LlO for his interest in the matter. After the stock had been sold by Mr. Greenfield, Markham, who was in Dunedin, telegraphed to Hodge to take possession of the stock, and in consideration of Hodge waiving whatever claim he might have to the stoek witness gave him a cheque for LlO. This was over and above the amount paid to Greenfield for the stock. The cheque was dishonored, as he had not sufficient funds. At that time witness owed the Bank L 195. This was secured by a bill of sale to Greenfield over the stock. He took possession of the stock on the 16th or 17th October. He then re-commenced business, and carried on business until the date of the fire. When he commenced business on the 10th October he had no stock except what he had purchased from Greenfield. He purchased the stock a long way below the value. He valued the stock he bought from Greenfield for L 195 at between LGOO and L7OO. He partly took stock before he filed, and did not get it much more than half taken when Mr. Markham took possession, and the amount he then arrived at for a portion of the stock, so far as he remembered, was L3OO. He did not, when 110 saw his stock sold for LIOO, inform his creditors as to its real value. He was not asked to give the value of his stock. He did not think his books prior to his bankruptcy would throw any light upon the value of his stock. His books since then would simply show the amount of stock he had sold since he re-com-menced business, but not the stock he had since received. He had filed the usual schedule of assets, but could not say what he valued the stock at. He had sold stock since he re-commenced business to the amount of nearly L2OO. [The witness' schedule at the time of his bankruptcy was then produced.] The witness stated that he had sworn to the correctness of the schedule to the best of his knowledge and belief.

Inspector Thompson : Did you swear then that the stock that you now say was worth LSOO or LOOO was worth L2OO ? Witness ; That was the amount I had taken stock for.

Inspector Thompson : You put the whole stock down at L2OO, and now say that was the amount for which you had taken stock. Why did you not give an estimate of the value of the balance ? Witness : I could not say what the value of it was.

Inspector Thompson : You have already sworn that you only took stock of a portinn of it, and that that portion reached the value of L3OO. Now, as j-our meiiiory is so dear upon the point, have you any explanation to give of the discrepancies in the figures ? Take time and reflect whether you had any reason for putting the value of ymir stock in the schedule at only L2OO.

Witness : I had no reason for doing so

Inspector lhompson : You had better take a little time to think the matter over.

Witness : I have no reason to give. Cross-examination continued : He had only purchased stock since he re-com-menced business to the aincunfc of LlO or Ll2, but lie had added to the value of the stock by manufacturing articles. He could not s:y what the value of the manufactured stock in the shop was when he re-commenced business. Mr. Greenfield spoke to him about insurance. Mr. Herdman had told him io insure his stock-in-trade for L2OO, and place the policy in the Bank. He had not told Greenfield that he would insure in his (Greenfield's) name. He (witness) had effected an insurance with Mr. J. Booth, in the Colonial Company, for L2OO, at 13s per LIOO. | When he spoke to Mr. Booth he told him that the shop was built of stone and wood. Mr. Booth had examined the shop. He j (witness) had occupied the shop at the' time for two months. The front was stone, one side stone lined with wood, the back and the other side wood. When he made the proposal for insurance he did not know what the house was constructed of. He knew that a higher rate of premium was charged for a wooden building than for one of stone, but he had not known this until Mr. Evans spoke to him about insuring before he made the proposal to Mr. Booth. He did not think it his duty to examine the building before insuring. He left that for the company to cl<>. His proposal for L2OO was accepted. The next insurance agent he proposed to was Mr. Johnston, of the Transatlantic. This was for L 250, and the proposal was accepted, Mr. Johnston remarking that 13s. was too little, and it ought to be 18s. This was on the 22nd November. The proposal was accepted at 13s. Mr. Booth came in shortly afterwards and explained that he had made a mistake, sayr ing the premium should have been 30s. per LIOO. He (witness) had made a proposal to Messrs. Connell and Clowes, of the "Victoria Company. This was forL2SQ

according to the document, but he thought his intention was to propose for Ll5O. The signature to the proposal was his. This was in December, but he could not say what date. His cash sales in December were Ll7 ; November, L 26 3s ; October, Ll9 13s ; and his' boob debts, since October 19, L 92 2s 6d. He had orders on hand for L 67. He purchasedthe stock for L 195, and he had sold goods to the amount of L 155. On the Bth uecember he had endeavored to insure it for L 250, and at the same time it was insured for L 450. He wished to bring the insurance up to LGOO. Inspector Thompson : To L7OO you mean.

Witness : I only wished to insure for LGOO. The amount in the last proposal should only have been Ll5O. Inspector Thompson : That is your signature to the proposal which savs L 250 ?

Witness : Yes, that is my signature right enough, but I must have made a mistake.

Examination continued : His proposal to the Victoria was declined by letter, the reason given being that the writers understood that he was already insured to the full amount. His reason for endeavoring to increase the insurance was that he was in negotiation with firms in Dunedin for taking a share in the bill of sale and supplying more goods. He had spoken to Mr. Herdman about it, and he had expressed his willingness to let them (Messrs. Moore and Bridgman) in if they supplied witness with goods. He had made a proposal to Mr. Dunlop before his proposal to the Yictoria was refused. Mr. Dunlop declined to accept the risk, saying he had too much on the books already. He did not remember the date on which the proposal was made to Mr. Dunlop. After the Yictoria refused the risk, he made a proposal to Mr. Sumpter, of the Kew Zealand Company, for Ll5O. He thought this occurred in the same week in which the fire happened. Mr. Sumpter gave him a conditional receipt, subject to the risk being approved. He had received notice from Mr. Booth that the policy in the Colonial was cancelled, accompanied by a cheque. He could not say whether or not tfiis was before he proposed to Mr. Sumpter, but he thought it was before. If it was afterwards, he would then have been insured for L6OO. The arrangement with the Dunedin people from whom he expected to receive stock had been quite completed. His object for making all the proposals before getting the additional goods was that, as he had some spare cash at the time, he thought he had better pay the insurance at once. When he went to Mr. Sumpter's office a few days before the fire, he told Mr. West that by the time he got in his additional goods the stock would be worth LGOO or L7OO. He was sure that he had not stated that it was then worth LGOO or L7OO. Mr. West called at his shop on the morning after the conversation. He had not heard Mr. West then say, " Surely there is not LGOO or L7OO worth of stock in the shop." He (witness) did not say that there were a few more cases not opened out yet. He may have said there were one or two other cases, but he did not remember doing so. If he had said so he thought he would have remembered it. He had no reason for saying so, as there were no other cases. He did not remember pointing to any parcel and saying to Mr. West, " There is Ll5O ■worth." If he had done so he thought lie would have remembered it. He had spoken to Mr. Dennison abont an insurance. He might have named Ll5O, but he did not think so. It' he had succeeded in effecting an insurance with Mr. Dennison his total insurance would have been between I 600 and L7OO. He did not insure with Mr. Dennison. He had spoken to Mr. Church about a policy. He was, he thought, the first he spoke to about an insurance. He would not swear that he had made any effort to insure his stock before the 15th November. He recommenced business on the 16th October.

Inspector Thompson : Then your stock remained uninsured from the lGth October to the 15th November, and between the 15th November and the 13th December you endeavored to get insurances to the amount of L7OO.

Witness : I think I was insured in October. Examination continued : He remembered Mr. Greenfield speaking to him on the day before the fire. Mr. Greenfield had spoken to him about Mr. Booth cancelling the policy in the Colonial office, and had asked if he was insured in any other office. Witness replied that he was in the Trans-Atlantic, and Mr. Greenfield said he had better come down at once and have the policy made out in his (Greenfield's) name. Witness replied that he could not go then, but said if Mr. Greenfield would get the papers prepared he would meet him at Mr. Johnston's office. He did not meet Mr. Greenfield there, for though he (witness) called twice the door was locked. He (witness) did not sleep in the shop. Mr. Smith lived next door witness' shop. He had been in Mr. Smith's shop, but not further into the building. At this point an adjournment for lunch took place. The examination of Peter R. Russell was continued. He had never been in Mr. Smith's back room. He did not know that Mr. Smith used bottles of any sort. He had no stated time for leaving the shop—it depended UDon the work that was in. Sometimes fee" was at work till tenor eleven o'clock. I: was his usual practice to return to the shop at night ; he did the cutting out after returning from tea. He left the shop on the night of the fire about eleven o'clock. He had worked up to about half-past eight or nine o'clock, when he shut up and went down town. He went down as ; far as the Post Office ; there was no person with him. On returning he met Mr. Crouch and Mr. Rule at the latter's shop, and they walked, up the street together. Rule went on, and Crouch and witness went into the shop. He struck a light, got a letter he left behind, and the two came out together. Witness had not a match, but Crouch had, and struck it. The letter was on the counter, next to the front window. Witness went to the back of the counter and Crouch stood in front of him. There was only one match struck while they were there. Witness was not near the place where the fire occurred. He passed the counter at the end next the window. They were not in the dark any part of the time they were in the shop, and only one match was struck. After leaving the shop again he went to the Post Office, and then went to the Star and Garter Hotel, where he remained about three-quarters of an hour. Hethenleftforhome,and on his way called at the Queen's Hotel, where he remained about aquarter of an hour,and met Mr. Armstrong. They were walking home together until coming to witness' shop, where witness asked Armstrong if he had a match. Just as witness opened the door, Armstrong struck a match and gave it to witness. They both entered the shop, and witness lit the centre gas, which was about four or five feet from where the fire occurred. He threw the match down where he was standing, but he could not say whether it was out or not. He did not think he threw the match in the direction in which the fire occurred. There was a cask of chains standing at the end of the shelving. It would have been difficult from the position in which he stood to have thrown a match either into or at the side of the cask. He used a good deal of straw in his business, and generally worked with the straw in the bapk-room where he made collars. They also used straw at the bench. He could not say whether or not they were using straw on the day of the fire. The waste from the straw was swept into the corner

by the fireplace at the back of the shop. Where the fire occurred there was a quantity of cuttings of leather; there might have been some straw there also. It would have been a very unusual thing if straw had been swept between the cask already mentioned and the partition. The straw was generally swept up by a young man he had in the shop named Arthur Wilson. It was swept away every morning. He had been working with straw almost every day since he had been in the shop. The straw would remain in the corner after being swept up for probably a week. He had been working with. straw at the back of the shop on the day before the fire, or thereabouts ; he was lining a collar for Peter Dooley. He was frequently working with straw, but he could not mention any particular uay upon which he used it. There was some cart grease in the shop—two or three tins of it. The good tins were kept on the shelf near the centre of the shop, and the bad tins near the fireplace. There were some old clothes in the shop—a pair of trousers that he had had there for some time. He could not say where they were on the day before the fire. If all the stuff produced (old clothes, grease, &c.) was found between the cask and partition, he could not account for how it came there. He could not account for the grease being mixed with the straw, as shown in the refuse produced. He did not remain in the shop more than two or three minutes. He and Armstrong left together, walking in company as far as the White Hart Hotel, where they separated. He (witness) went straight home, and went to bed. He was not long in bed —five to ten minutes—before lie was called. This was about three-quarters of an hour after he left the shop. Inspector Thompson : Three-quarters of an hour ! Are you sure ? Witness : I can only judge the time from knowing how long it took me to walk home. It was from half-an-hour to three-quarters of an hour 1 Inspector Thompson : How far is your place from the shop ? Witness : About ten or fifteen minutes' walk.

Inspector Thompson : Then how do you make up the three-quarters of an hour.

Mr. Newton said he had no desire to interfere, but he thought that when a witness tendered himself for examination he should not be cross-examined in the manner that Inspector Thompson was proceeding to examine Mr. Russell, unless the witness showed himself to be hostile.

His Worship remarked that the examination was being held for the pnrpose of eliciting information. Inspector Thompson said that if the witness declined to answer any question he would not press him to give a reply. Cross-examination continued : His house was from 10 to 15 minutes' walk from the shop. He went to bed 10 or 15 minutes after getting home. Mr. Newton then said he had no desire to detain his worship or the jury, but he would like to ask the witness a few questions in order to clear up some matters.

Witness to Mr. Newton : I had arranged that all insurance policies were to be handed over to the Union Bank. The conditional receipt of the XewZealand Company was handed to Mr. Herdman. and he held it at the time of the fire. The policy with the Transatlantic was not made out, and I did not hand the receipt to Mr. Herdman on that account. When I made the statement to my solicitors prior to filing in the Bankruptcy Court, I was told by them to value the property at what it would fetch at a forced sale. Markham sold the stock privately,through Greenfield. I cannot say if a higher oiler could have been obtained. At any rate it only realised LIOO. The stock to me would have been worth from L7OO.

Mr. Newton : Here is a valuation of your stock made by some person. Ido not know who. Is anything under-valued or omitted from that ? Witness : There was more stock oil my premises than that mentioned in the valuation produced. It shows a gross value, including tools, of L29G. At the time of the fire my stock was worth approximately L4OO. At the time of the fire my insurance was L4OO, including the insurance with the New Zealand, conditionally granted. Prior to the fire I had not received anj' intimation that the insurance was absolutely accepted, so that on the night of the fire I was only insured for L 250. The stock was worth more than L 250 on the night of the fire. I had LG7 worth of orders on hand at the time of the fire. The L 155 worth of sales included profits at the rate of about 20 per cent. My stock was reduced to Ll2O. I proposed to Mr. Dunlop for L 250, and to the New Zealand for Ll5O. I had no reason for dropping the amount to Ll5O. I do not remember when I applied to Mr. Dennison. I do not know when Mr. Booth informed me of the policy being cancelled. Between leaving Crouch and returning with Armstrong I was not in my shop, and I was not there between leaving with Armstrong and returning to the fire. When I came to the shop with Armstrong I could have seen the place where the fire took place. There had been a fire in the grate all day, and there were ashes and embers in the grate when I was there with Armstrong. I believe I put the fire at the back of the grate whilst Armstrong was there. Ashes from the grate might have communicated with the refuse straw or pieces of leather. The leather is very inflammable. I use the grease for lighting "the fire. I had nothing to do with the bundle of refuse which has been exhibited in Court. There might be collars hanging against the partition on the night of the fire. My family were prepared to go to bed when I got home. I got up directly Captain Crawford called me. Mrs. Russell said to me that she heard the firebell ringing, and almost immediately afterwards Captain Crawford called me. To Mr. O'Meagher : I think the stock was worth more to me than it was to any other saddler. Tools have only a certain value. I owed the Union Bank L 195 at the time of the fire. There are many rats about the place. The Foreman : I should like to know, Mr. Russell, the effect of the conditional receipt given by the New Zealaud Company. Did it hold good until the Company had expressed approvrl or disapproval.

Witness : I do not know. Mr. Newton ; That is a legal question. Mr- O'Meagher ■ I think it would hold good under such circumstances. Mr. Newton : As a matter of fact, we are going to test the question. Witness to Mr. Newton : It was after the fire that I received notice from Mr. Sumpter that the risk would not be accepted by the New Zealand Company. Mr. O'Meagher : Of course it was after the fire.

Wilnes3, to Mf\ Butt ; Mr. West told me, before the fire and after I had got the conditional receipt, that he did not think the proposal would be approved of. He said that he did not think the proposal would be entertained, or words to that effect. I understood from him that there would be very little chance of my getting a policy. This conversation took place before the fire occurred.

Just as we were going to press the jury returned a verdict that there was no evidence to show how the fire originated.