MESSRS. HISLOP AND SHRIMSKI AT THE VOLUNTEER HALL.

Oamaru Mail, Volume III, Issue 629, 9 May 1878, Page 5 (Supplement)

MESSRS. HISLOP AND SHRIMSKI AT THE VOLUNTEER HALL.

The members of the House of .Representatives for Waitaki, Messrs. HMop and Shrimakt, addressed a meeting of their constituents at the Volunteer Hall laat evening. About 500 electors were present, and the chair was occupied by his Worship the Mayor. The Chairman, in opening the proceedings, said his duties that evening would be exceedingly light. Fie wottld have little to do beyond listening to the speeches of the members for the district He felt sure that the meeting would listen, with pleasure to the addresses of their members, and he need scarcely bespeak for them a patient hearing. He concluded by calling upon the senior member to address the meeting. Mr. Histop, who wa3 received with applause, briefly apologised for not meeting his constituents at an earlier period after the session. When elected, he came forward in the interests of Provincialism, believing that it was undesirable to abolish the institutions under which they had lived and prospered. But as those institutions were destroyed, it became the duty of the Government to bring forward measures to provide a substitute for that form of government which had been abolished; and, although it was impossible to get back Provincialism, it was hoped that the party which had fought for the maintenance of the Province would continue in unity as to the form of government to replace Provincialism ; but parties became somewhat mixed up after Abolition had been effected. The question then arose in his mind whether or not he could support the then Ministry, and he decided in the negative for reasons which he would state. After the session of tSTtf closed, one of the grossest breaches of the rules affecting party government was perpetrated. Overtures were made to one of the leading members of the Opposition to join the Ministry, which succeeded, but only for a time, as there is little doubt it was one of the causes of the downfall of the Atkinson Ministry. This might appear a small matter, but it went to the root of constitutional government, as it shook the confidence which members of a party required to have in order to work together for a common good. The same course was followed on a former occasion with regard to Major Atkinson and Mr. JPLxan, both of whom, after their election, and before joining the__ Ministry, were opposed to Sir Julius Vogel's Government. Thu practice, which was followed for the purpose of weakening the Opposition, was calculated to corrupt parties. He found the same disregard of principle displayed in regard to the promises made previously to Abolition as to the effects which flow from it. Thev had ken told that each province would financially gain by the change. < >tago was to have about Lir>o,ot>(> and Canterbury about more of public money ti apend. and alt the other provinces were likewise to have increases, and that too without any additional taxation. They were promised, too, that tho Land Fund and Fducationat _ Reserves would remain for the benefit of tho various provinces. ft would be remembered that the Educational Reserves were in danger : but this had been dunied by the Abolitionists. The Legislature of last year deprived the Province of the benefit of the reserves for educational purposes. With regard to the Land Fund it would be remembered that in IXTti. contrary to previous promises. 1 tho llovernmerit's proposals contemplated tho reduction from this fund of, besides other charges, two per cent, for colonial purposes, while last year large deductions were to be made from the Land Fund of Otago and Canterbury. He instanced this'to show the want of finality in financial proposals of the late Ministry, and as one of the reasons why he could not support tlicm. He then proceeded to show the haphazard style of making hoth ends moot pursued by the late Government, ami instanced the amount due upon Treasury bills which had been issued for the purpose of defraying ordinary expenditure in anticipation of land revenue in a majority of the .Provinces which it was well-known would not arise. He fluiwed that although there was an actual 'ifiicit in income the late Ministry shirked tiwir duty in not mending matters by «thor reducing expenditure or increasing tasation. It was difficult to ascertain ithat the policy of the late Government Is: they were too shifty. _ It remembered that Mr. Woolxweil a resolution afliriutng the for an alteration in the inci:axatioti. Notwithstanding thaf ineial statement the then Treaed that no fresh taxation would try. No sooner had it become that Mr. Wookock's motion carried than the Government it, with an alteration postponing g effect to it until the next This, with other matters, led elieve that the sympathisers of Ministry were with the large class. It had been urged upon vnmenb from year to year that uome derived from the colonial did not amount to the interest loans expended in their coitthose chiefly benefited by e landowners, whoso land had icd by them—should contribute the deficiency in the income. r just- principle had. however, egarded, and matters remained unsatisfactory condition. Tins awards large capitalists was al- ; found in their measures. Fluidities Act and Municipal Corpoct provision was made whereby ers of land were given a ptura?otes, inconsistent with demoititutions. This was, perhaps. ' much importance except as the mistaken principle upon } late Government acted in pro- : the distribution of rates. This of the late Ministry's policy in large capitalists was also exemn their Native Lands Bill. is Bill, instead of the difficulties re previously in the way of 00/ id :rs obtaining land being removed. Id have become greater. It would I the effect, as "was well stated Alliance, of flooding the North itli speculators, and placing in ids all the native lands available ruent. as it wonld have been imfor persons of moderate means, I in the chicaner}- which characealings with the Maoris, to have native lands in opposition to

large capitalists. (Load applause). It was believed that had it not been for the accession to office of the present Ministry a large tract of country known as the Mnri'motu block—almost the only land available for settlement on the west coast of the Wellington Province—would have passed into the hands of speculators. He pointed out at length the evil which would have resulted from the Native Lands Court Bill, especially by removing all restriction from dealing directly with natives, and thereby rendering every acre of native lands, «.>:'V['C reserves, open to alienation through the artifices of capitalists upon the imprudence of the native owners, who would probably become paupers, and might be driven into rebellion. These were a few of the reasons which actuated him in his opposition to the late Ministry. Tiie present Government were put in office with a view to remedying the state of atfairs sketched out by him, and upon their action in regard thereto would depend his support of or opposition to them. He would now sketch out the policy promised to be pursued by present Ministry, as he understood it. The first subject to which thev promised to direct their attention was that of finance. They were promised that careful consideration would be given to any possible reductions in departmental expenditure by abolishing any unnecessary others and sinecures. They wottld also have to consider the source from which extra income was to be derived, and the alteration of taxatiou with the view of relieving industrial pursuits. By a judicious removal of part of the taxation from the necessaries of life to property two advantages would be got. ft would "reduce the cost of living, and therefore of production, and so encourage industries. It would also force the owners of property to utilise it, instead of allowing it to lie unproductive. Another question which would have to be considered was the land question, including the Native Lands Act. When abolition was before the country they were promised that, as one of its effects, they would have a national system of legislation, and that the distinctions in various Provinces would disappear. When, however, after abolition was effected, and it was suggested that this principle should be applied to the land question, the strongest opposition was shown by Abolitionists, especially those from Canterbury. The result was that in the present Land 3 Act all old systems were sought to be perpetuated. It was unreasonable that these various systems should be continued. For instance, whv should land in Canterbury lie of tiie uniform price of L2 per acre. whether it w.i;; really worth that sum, or three or four times as much. When it was suggested that the auction should be introduced into Canterbury, the strongest opposition was evinced. He hoped_ to see a Kill based on uniform principles, applying to the whole Colony, introduced by the "present Government. With regard to the Native Lands Bill, it had been suggested that the Ministry should have the' power to appoint a Board, in the nature of a Waste Lands Board, to negotiate between tiie purchasers and the natives ; but, whatever the machinery might, be, the principles which they expected to be embodied in this by the Government, as well as their laud policy, j was the promotion of /».,»/»'//</..■ settlement j on the land. The . t tiesti->ns of_ represen- j tat ion and local government might come j before tin.' House next session, but he considered the other subjects of more: pressing necessity, and that tiie Govern-j merit would have sufficient to do in deal-j tug satisfactorily with them. There _ was j

great need for reform in representation : but he v.;is not prepared to support the principle that population alone should be considered. One thing to aim at in representation was that all classes and interests should be fairly represented, and towards the attainment of this end their efforts should be directed. With regard to the present system of local government, there could be little doubt that it required alterations. The system by which County Councils ami Boad Boards dealt, within the same boundaries, with the same nature of works, was neither economical nor politic. At present, too. many matters previously dealt with by Provincial Councils were in a most unsatisfactory state, as Acts dealing with the present local matters were liable to be vetoed by the Imperial Government, even if they passed both Houses of the Legislature. They might with advantage assimilate to some extent the County Council system to the old Provincial system ; and free them from thereby sharing in tinwork performed by Boad Boards. He had briefly stated the reasons which actuated him in opposing the late Ministry and the reasons which were likely to actuate him in supporting the present Government. They knew that under Sir George ,; rey they would have proposals which wottld tend to finality in legislation, and obtain a system of dealing with native and other lands which would meet with the approval of the people. He thought he might claim for his colleague and fiiruself the approval of their constituents for their adherence to the principles entertained by them, and but for their advocacy of which they would not have been returned. Having thanked the meeting for the patient hearing which had been accorded him, Mr. Hislop announced that he would be glad to answer anv questions which might be put to him at "the close of Mr. Shrimski's address.

Mr. Hislop was frequently applauded throughout his speech and at its close. Mr." Shritn.ski said that, in appearing tu't'ore them f«r the tirst time since they did him the honor to elect him as one of their representatives, he would crave their indulgence for any shortcomings on his part. All men were not gifted with speech like their chairman ; but he nevertheless had an earnest desire to serve them both in or out of office. His colleague had fully explained all subjects, and if he adopted the advice of a friend, he would not go to the trouble of making a speech, but merely leave it to those present to ask any questions they thought proper. But, knowing that such a course would not satisfy the electors, he had determined to address them to the best of his ability. lie was elected on what was termed the "Provincial ticket." At that time, dark clouds had spread over the Colony, and the minds of the people were fully " occupied by the revolutionary chaitges that were about to take place in the constitution of the Colony. He did all in his power to save Provincial institutions. He would refer to a few matters in connection with the session of IS76\ The House opened on the 15th June of that

year, and when the Address in reply to his Excellency the Governor was being moved, Sir George Grey asked to be permitted to move tlfe suspension of the Standing Orders to enable him to move that the Piako Swamp transaction should be enquired into. After a long debate a division was taken, which resulted in favor of Sir Geo. Grey, and he moved tl'.r:: the Government be restrained from com:.'!- ting '!:,: sale of So.OoO acres known as it;-- i'.-.k •S.va.mp whicu was passing into the hands of a company of speculators. This further occupied a considerable portion of the time of the House, and the mover lost his motion by the casting vote of the Speaker. This transaction was discussed in the House during the session of 1875, before he had the honor to represent them, and the House being dissatisfied with'thesale urged the Government to postpone the consideration of the question till the meeting of the new Parliament. The Government agreed to do that ; but they broke faith, and. three daws prior to the meeting of the new Parliament (that of 1576), they issued an Order in Council, which was published in the New Zealand Gazette, announcing the completion of the sale. Sir George Grey, on seeing this, moved the motion he had already mentioned, asserting that it was robbing the public of its rightful revenue, and preventing the legitimate settlement of the people on the land in question. This motion being lost on the casting vote of the Speaker, placed the then Government in an awkward position ; and, after some days delay, Sir Julius Vogel brought in a motion asking the House to ratify the .sale, failing which the Ministry would resign. This had the effect desired by the Government, and members supported the Government in order to have the Abolition of the Provinces carried, otherwise the Ministry would have resigned, and Abolition would not then have been carried. Had the country sent men into the House to represent thevariousconstuuencies instead of representing themselves Abolition would never have been carried. He regretted to soy that there were too many of the kind "of men he referred to in the House. This is how Abolition was carried : The Province of Marlborough had nothing to lose and all to gain ; and Nelson, Taranaki, and Westland were in a similar position. The representatives of this Province thereupon voted tor Abolition. I Hawke's Bay, where the majority of the j land was in the hands of speculators, voted in favor of Abolition. Tiie Canterbury members, with the exception of two, chelate Superintendent (Mr. Kolleston) and Mr. Fisher, voted in favor of Abolition, because they were promised by the Government the renewal of their squatting licenses as a return for their votes. He°was borne out in his opinion by one of the ablest authorities in the Colony (Sir W. Fitzherbert, the late Superintendent of Wellington), who said that the conspiracy to carry Abolition first emanated" in Canterbury. The same gentleman lately remarked that the country once had the substance, but now it had only the shadow. Ho would now say something about the session of 1877. Great things were expected of the Atkinson Government when it opened, because they had promised to bring down a large number of useful measures, amongst which were the Amended Counties Bill, the Road Boards Bill, and other important Bills : instead of that they brought dov.'!! a host of useless measures, all having a tendency to benefit one class of persons, which were verjproperly put into the waste paper basket After Abolition was carried, lie was at libertvto act and vote according to what he considered to be for the benefit of the country, and v.-henhesaw what the Government was doing, he felt it to be his duty to oppose them. During sessions Members hail plenty to do, what with eommitttes and lengthy debated There were 142 Biils passed during last session, many of which were useful measures : but the most satisfactory work of the session was the supplanting' of the Atkinson by the Grey Government, lie would tell them something about the Waka Maori case. That paper was edited, printed, and published by the late Government, at the expense of the country, it was said for the benefit of the natives. It was usually a harmless sort of tiling, and was filled with anecdotes of the tract kind, suitable for children. This paper, which was really intended to work the oraeies of the Government and their speculating followers, published a libel against one of their opponents, the Hon. H.Russell. He brought an action against the Government which ended in the public chest being relieved of LuOOO legal expenses: and this is how a Government acted which ought tohave been a parent to every colonist. Such a Government was not worthy of support. They did not spend their own money, but that of colonists, to work their own private ends. Next came the Settlement Works Advances Bill, which asked the House for a grant of LoO.OOO to enable them to construct roads and bridges. He opposed that because it was contrary to the Government's promise, made during the previous session, that such works should be performed by the Counties, which were subsidised to enable them to carry them out. The Bill was rejected. He would refer to the Charitable Aid Bill, which professed to give a pound for pound subsidy to local institutions ; but upon the basis that the maintenance of inmates should not exceed a certain sum per head. He found, on looking into the matter, that the passing of the Act would prove a fatal blow to the charitable institutions of country districts, for they would not be able to maintain patients at the same rate as would similar institutions in populous centres, in consequence of the extra cost of supplies and of medical aid in country districts. The responsibility would therefore be thrown upon local bodies. He was sorry to have to vote against Mr. Donald Beid, a gentleman for whom he had the highest esteem, and who had charge of the Bill; but he did so, and the Bill was dropped. He would briefly refer to the Native Land Bill. Tho Government seemed to be proud of this measure, as they circulated it two months before the House met, and one would have thought that they would have been prepared to stand or fall by it. The Government said that it was to faciltate the settlement of the lands of the North Island; but it played into the hands of capitalists, who would have been able, through its instrumentality, to increase their monopolies. After strong opposition, and only when the Government saw its position in jeopardy, the Bill was withdrawn on the motion of Mr. Ballance. Immediately after this the

same Government introduced the Native Land Sales Suspension Bill, the provisions of which were quite opposite in character to those of the Native Land Bill. They feared that outsiders would make arrangements with the natives fur the acquirement of land which might inteifere with the prerogative of their friends. This Bill was ultimately rejected. WhenI ever grave charges were made against the ! late Goventmeiir. Major Atkinson averted that members would not dare to repeatsuch charges outside the House, where they were unprivileged. Mr. Stout, however, took up the challenge, which was repeated once too often, and requested the Major to go outside, and he would not be afraid to repeat what had already been said, and would stand by the consequences. Did the Major go outside? No! The Government had a habit of challenging, but they challenged because they thought their challenges would not be accepted. Bequests for committees to investigate various matters were studiously avoided. The Education Bill, which was introduced by Mr. Bowen, contained religious clauses, to which the majority of the members took objection, and they were afterwards struck out ; and after the Bill had undergone material alteration, it became law. When the State pays for education, it should be strictly secular and compulsory. He regretted that the Catholic body objected to the secular nature of the Act ; but he hoped that before long all religious denominations would be taught under one system, and that thus all would grow up in the bonds of brotherly love and friendship, and that there would be a better world and a better Colony. He next briefly alluded to the financial position of tne Colony, and quoted Major Atkinson's statement of last session that the time had arrived when the country required political quiet and political rest. This was rather good, What did he mean '( Did he mean the suspension of public works, or did he mean thai the Government had got into a mess through carrying Abolition and required years of rest and quiet to rectify the damage they had done "i He would not givo all those figures [showing the Financial Statement] for if he did they would be no wiser in the morning than they were then. When the late Government were twitted with having no policy, they said that the Immigration and Public 'Works policy was theirs, taking all the credit to themselves ; but when they were charged with errors, they said that those errors belonged to Sir Julius VogeFs policy. Mr. Woolcock assumed the responsibility of introducing a. motion to alter the incidence of taxation, which should have emanated from the Government. After a lengthy debate and expense to the country, the mover voted against his own motion in favor of the Government amendment, which was carried, that a similar measure should be embodied in their next year's policy. He then referred to the breaches of privileges, and cited that in which the Governor was adjudged guilty of a breach of privilege for not accepting the advice of his Ministers. Mr. Travel's endeavoured to reverse the decision of the House with the object of throwing the onus upon the Sir George Grey Government. This placed the Government in a suvioua fix. lie therefore moved the adjournment of the House, which being carried, shelved the question. He wished to make a personal explanation. He was charged by Mr. Curtis with voting to order, when the motion for reducing the salaries of Ministers was before the House. The Premier, wishing to reduce the salaries of officials, .said that lie would comiuence.fU'st with the Ministers by reducing their salaries to a thousand a year. He (Mr. Shrimski) knew from his own experience in Wellington that Ministers could not maintain their positions with credit to themselves and benefit to the colony for this amount, and moved that the bill lie read that day three months. This was carried, and gave rise to Mr. Curtis's charge. He said that it there was ono man more independent than- another in the House, it was their humble servant. it was Mr. Curtis who voted to order, and followed Mr. Mandera wherever he went. He said that the time had arrived for the readjustment, of the representation, and cited some of the inequalities that existed, and pointed out that this district was as much entitled to three members as was Timarn, and that there should be one for Oamaru and one each for north and south of the district. With regard to the franchise, he was opposed to manhood suffrage, but- was quire willimr to alter his opinion if it could lie shown to be for the benefit of the Colony. He then referred to a land and property tax. The time had arrived when wealthy land o>vners should bear their fair proportion of the burdens of the Colony. They had been greatly enriched through the public works scheme, and had not contributed their fair share towards the expense of carrying out that policy. There were estates in this district that carried two or three shepherds. If those estates were properly utilised, they would carry a large number of families, which would use a large amount of dutiable articles. If they had more men like Messrs. Menlove and Reid, of Elderslie, no one could complain, becaused they employed a lot of hands. He highly praised the ability and honesty of Sir George Grey, against whom, a great deal had been said, and remarked that if, at any time he and his colleague disagreed with his policy, they were not tied down, and would vote against him. He thanked his constituents for the patient hearing they had given him. Mr. Shrimski was frequently applauded throughout his speech. Mr. Hardy wished the meeting to be informed what Mr. Shrimski had done with reference to the Bill for altering the constitution of the Harbor Board. Mr. Shrimski said that he had introduced a bill for that purpose last session, but it was thrown out in the Upper House- Had there been a petition in favor of it, it would not have been rejected. He would not like the trouble again ; but if desired by his constituents, he would introduce another bill for the same purpose next session. Mr. Hardy wanted to know whether Mr. Shrimski and Mr. Hislop would support a Bill giving the Municipal Council power to borrow more money to complete the waterworks.

Mr. Shrimski said that such a question should be answered with care. Under the Municipal Corporations Act of 1876, the consent of the ratepayers to any further borrowing must be obtained. If the public desired it, lie -would, of course, favour borrowing.

In reply to Mr. Thomson, Mr. Shrimski said that he was in favor of making the Harbor Board elective. Mr. Connell said that he would like to know Mr. Hislop's opinion on the question of manhood suffrage. Mr. Hislop said that he had not yet gone into the question, because there, were many other matters of greater importance to be dealt with. He would be in favor of manhood suffrage if under proper restrictions, provision being made for registration. They were told that any man wh" desired it could vote. What about tiie thousands of clerks, farmers' sons, and others who had arrived at the age of 21 who could not exercise that privilege ( He thought that no man should be allowed to vote who could not sign the registration form. He agreed with Sir George Grey that if a man crossed the seas and became a settler it was prima, facie evidence that he would have sufficient intelligence and interest in the Colony to entitle him to have a say in the Government of the country. j

In reply to a question from Mr. Aitchison, Mr. Hislop said that the Land Act of last session had not affected the preemptive rights of squatters. Mr. Thomson moved, and Mr. B.uick seconded, "That this meeting desires to express its confidence in the members for the Waitafci District."—Carried.

Mr. Hislop proposed, and Mr. Shrimski seconded, a vote of thanks to the Mayor for his conduct in the chair. This was carried, and the meeting concluded.