HISLOP VERSUS MACKAY.

Oamaru Mail, Volume II, Issue 459, 18 October 1877, Page 2

HISLOP VERSUS MACKAY.

[BY TELEGRAPH, FROJI OUR OWX CORRESPONDENT.] Wellington, October 17. The following is the concluding portion of the assault ease : I'r. Buller cross-examined the Hon. Mr Fisher at great length, but failed to shake his evidence. Mr T. W. Hislop deposed that he was a solicitor of the Supreme Court. He saw Mr Ma.kav on the 11th iust. ' Witness was in company with Messrs Seaton and Pyke, near the corner of the l'arliainenta y Buildings when Mr Mackay came up an i as ed witness if he hid told anyone that he (Mackav) had made a member of the House drunk Witne-s replied that he had heard it stated that Mr Mackay ha I been seen drinking in th .: hotel with the member on the day of the division on the no-oo;.fidcnce motion. Mr Mackay d mm;id :d the name of witness's informant, an I wi-ness replied that he c ill I n.>t tell him without the ant oiity of his informant. Mr Mackay then said that the rumour was entirely uufounde I, and he wmi:d probe it to the bottom. Witness said, 'I will see if I can gee the name, and may see you to-morrow." Witness receive-1 a letter on the morning of the 13th from Mr Maekiy demanding an apology, and sent a nply the same day. A memberot the House told witness that Mackay had us' d threads towards him. Witness ihen described the assault. Mr Mackay < oniandedthe name of his informant, which witness i efused to give. Mr Mackay then demanded an apology, "hieii was aiso r fu-ed. Mr Mackay .-aid, " l'ut up your hands." He (witness) replied, "I wili do as 1 please with my hands; 1 advise you not to do anything of which you m <y repent." Mr Mackay then said, •'! Avill horsewhip you," and d the whip. He (Hislop) closed with Mr Mackay, and the force of the blow was expend d. He se'zed Mr Mackay wiih his left hand by the client, and jammed him against the shutters. He sized Mr Mackay by the throat. Mr Mackay seized the whip with b th hands, but witness broke it aftj'wards iii the st uggle in several places. Witness then asked, "Is that all a on want?" lo which deieiulant lepieil, ''That's all I want." Mr Mackay then walked away two or three paces and said, " I have you, and am Mr Hislop was cross-examined «t great length by Or. Buller. During his crossexainiiit.tion, witness said he did not know ( that Mr Mackay was a M'agi-tra-e. Dr. Buller : Perhaps Mr Mackay did not know you were an M.H.It. M r Stout: V\ by, he addresses him as such in a letter. Mr Stout put in a copy of the Times, which contained a qnolati.n from Mr Maekay's letter. This was not sup,-lied by Mr Hislop. It also contained a statement that Mr Hislop would be horse-whipped, showing Mr Mackay's premeditation, lie having supplied the quotation to the Times. The case was adjourned at 1 o'clock for half an hour. Mr Mackay was then examined, and described himself as a laud agent, and u agistrate, since 1565. He saw xv Hislop, and asked, " Is it true that you have stated that 1 n-ade Mr Joyce drunk on the day the want of confidence vote was t=.ken?""Mr Hislop replied, "Yes; but I heard it from another person." I said, '• I mu.-t hare an apology, or be furnished with the name of your inform nt." He said, "I do not know that 1 can give you ihe name of my informant." I said, " You will have to do so." He seemed to treat nie in a cavalier manner. He walked away some little distance, and then came back and sad, *• Perhaps I may tell you tomonow." I .-aid, "By George, you will have to tell me to-morrow." I wrote the letter already p.;t in. I was asked by a le porter on the morning of the ,12th if I had •made Mr Joyce drunk. 1 bought a new wh;p on the -0.-ach on my way to the Princes Hotel, where 1 went t > look for Mr HUlop. Un my way back, near the St. (forge's Hall, 1 met Mr Hislop, w th Mr Fisher. I walked up to Mr tlislop, and t>>ld that I had received his letter, a. d demandedan apology. Mr Hislop denied making a certain statement. I said he did. He again said he did not. I said I would

have an apology, and reiterated my demand several times, but he refused. I said, " Y>>u must either apologise or put up voir hands. I will horsewhip you." He still declined, and said he would do as lie liked with his hands. I then struck him with the horsewhip, and sail, "Aow, will you apo ogise ?"' He would not I gave him some morj cuts with the hoitewhip. I pissed to the right to one side. Mr said, " Why don't you take the whip frun that fellow V Mr Hislop then ru-hed to seize the whip. 1 put my left hand nut. He got hold of the whi >, and twistid my finger. We sen Hied forihe whip, ('Wtne-s here <le crihed the seuill;.) Afterwa ds Mr Hislop said. " You will hear more of this." I said, " You arc an unmitigated liar and scoundrel, and I have horsewhipped you." Mr Nation and Mr Halse, of Auckland, were present. Cross-examined by Mr Stout : There is not the slightest foundation for the rumour that I mule Mr J<>ycj drunk. 1 tried to take carj of him, and advised him to go home. I went into the Melbourne Hotel on the morning of the Sth, and asked Mr Joyce to have a diMik. The barmaid said she had been ordered not to serve him. 1 then tried to take him to the Occidental Hotel. 1 knew as a magist ate it m\is my duty to keep the peace. [ Witn-ss admitted that he went to tlm New Zealand Times and instructe I a reporter named Gorman as to the paragraph about the locking up case and gave him the qtvtaton from the letter written to Mr Hislop.] Mr Stout: Do you take any interest in politics ? Mr Mackay : I am not a Greyite. Mr Siout : Have you ever Leen opposed to Hr George Grev ? Mr M.ickay : I do not believe in all his politics. Mr Stout: Did you petition against his return ? Mr Mackay : Certainly I did. Mr stout: You yourself being "a candidate ? Mr Mackay : T was a can Hd itc. Mr Stout : Have \ou been agjnt for Mr Whitaker in land transactions ? Mr Mack y : No. Mr Stout : Have you been agent for Mr Thunas Eus.ell? Mr Mackay : Yes, in numerous transactions. Mr Stout : Are you not still agent for him ? Mr Mackay : Yes. Mr Stout: Have you been agent for Mr Whitaker ? Mr Mackay : Not l'tely. He and T were going in for a block of lan I du.ing the last six month-:. Mr Stout : Mr Whitaker is Mr Russell's partner, is he not ? Mr Mackay: Yes; but in hunlicds of matters, such as mining SJ cculations, they are nor. partners. Mr Stout : Are your politics not pronounc d on one side ? Mr Mackay : Y s. in some tilings ; but I don't agree wish the late Government on the ! and Bill. I had one ylass of gin with Mr Joyce in Hie Melbourne Hotel. I do not jeco.lect a:iv more. A German came in and called for drinks f r himself and me. The barmaid ser.ol two v-ry small gla-scs of g n. To tile best of my belief the German di-ank both. I afterwards saw Dr. Henry, M.H.K., at the i'r vinoial Hotel. I told t ai■tain Morris where Joyce was, and he told Dr. Hairy. I knew Captai i Morris was a Government whip. 'I his was about 2 o'clock. 1 knew the division on the no-con-fidence motion wa-s coining on. I toil Capiain Mor is that Mr Joyce was at the Mi 1bou n: H -tel. My impie-sion was tnat Mr Joyce in'ended to vote for the Gove nineiit. I went in a cab with I'r. Henry to show hint where Mr Joyce was. We in-iuircd for Air Joyce at the Melbourne Hotel. He was found asleep on a sofa in a little pailonr Dr. Henry got a glas.-i of beer for Mr Joyce, and ask. d me to call a cab. 1 got one, and IJr. Henry and Mr Joyce w nt away in it. Mr Stout : Have you ever given way to drink ? Mr Mackay : I take a glass of beer, the sane as other rcop e I nuv r g :t into sue a a state but what 1 know wh it I am doing, i did not >ay that I had licked .Vr Fish a' and Mr iiidoi'. 1 have had shindies with the native*. Some thugs I cannot put up with—that is. having my word doubted. Sr lloberr. Douglas was called for the defence, but ha I t' stand down on a technical obje.tion bv Mr Joyce. Mr W liiam liowe, M.11.T!., and, reexamined, said—About the Kith or 11th, he was with Mr Hislop, who said Mr Mackiy made Mr Joyce drank to get his vote for the Government. Two or tniee d .ys later, witness met Mr Mackay, and told him what Mr His.'op had said. Cross examined by Mr Stout: I did not say I wondered why I had been summoned, • as I had had no conversation about it. I never had any business transaction with Mr M;.ckav. Mr Ham'in, M.H.R., deposed that Mill owe had denied to him and Mr Brown, M.H. If., tha". he ever had any conversation with Mr Mackay the statement made by Air Hi-lop. M>- Hislop, re-called, stated that Mr liowe, in convocation with him, said he could not understand why he was subpoenaed, as he never had any conversation with Mr Mackay on the matier. By Dr. Builer : 1 said to Mr Howe that it was hard if two members of the House could not hive a conversation in the lobbies without it being repeated by Mieaks Mr Howe replied, " Well, I did not report it." Sarah Maloney, barmaid at the Melbourne Hotel, was placed in the box, but could not remember anything. She said, when Mr Joyce called for two drinks, she gave Mr Mackay gin, and Mr Joyce water. Mr Mackay was in the hotel halt an hour. Mr Mackay spoke to her yesterday aoout the case. She never told Mr Baker ami Mr Giace that two gentlemen were with Mr Joyce for an hour and more, trying to make him drunk, and that they took him away in a cab. She did say when they called the .second time that she knew nothing about it, and had only given Mr Joyce lemonade. Ur. Liiiler tin addressed the Co irt, and urged provocation and exteiiuatii g <iroumsuiicjs. lie asked that a nom.nal line niLlit be imposed. .No severe assault had been committed, as complainant had claimed to have the best of it. Mr. Stout addressed the Court, and said the case was an exceptional one. If only a tine were inflicted, members of the House would have to resort to bowie-kmvts when any conversation took ]lace in the lobl ujs between members, Mr Mackay had brazeutu

the matter out, and had called witnsiiJß and tried to make a hero of hinuolf. \M would be no use to fine him 110. I The l'ench then retired for ten minute. I and on returning Mr. It. J. Duncan, Uhttir I man, said tlio liench had given the cam it I careful consideration. A grave offence lin;S been committed, which it was their duty t ■ put down with a linn hand, especially en: 9 sidcring the posiii n in which tlio defendan m stood The dofeudaut niiglit have hud n 9 dres* in Court, tor slander. 'I lie pentein.J| was impri omnent for seven days, willum -9 ha d labour, i There were a few hisses in the Court. ,; Mr Burns gave notice in tho House to ■ the Government whether they intended fc; nm ve Maekay's nam-! from the roll of ,hii tiees* of tlio Peace. Onnsider.iblu indiv't)» tion is expressed Itccaus ', though complain ant's counsel carefu ly avoided dragging m Joyce's name, defon hint's counsel ll.id in cmpuncti'in whatever in doi-g so. j Mr li-dier, during the examination, wai 1 ask' dif he knew Mr Maekay. His cultiii ? i| reply was. " No ; bub I had heard that li. : ; wis a nngi.s!r..te and a gentleman." I'idii j M.ll. li.'s were present in the Court during 1 the tr'al. Dr. Huller ib getting up a pett. tion for the mitigitioti of Mackay'a nvu< tencc. ')