"N.Z. Truth" Lifts The Veil On Secret Bayly-Thomasen Interview

NZ Truth, Issue 1238, 22 August 1929, Page 7

"N.Z. Truth " Lifts The Veil On Secret Bayly -Thomasen Interview

SO complicated has the position become m the circumstances surrounding the Elsie Walker investigations, and the recent dramatic developments, that "N.Z. Truth" . thinks it only right that at the present difficult juncture certain facts should 1 be withheld for a_, time, as prematm-e disclosures might be prejudicial to at least one party. If there were no reason to doubt the straightforwardness o£- certain persons m authority the position would be comparatively plain sailing, but, unfortunately plain sailing has never been a feature of the mystery to date. A fact, however, which is worthy > of comment is that though Mr. and Mrs. Thomasen did not leave Wanganui until the day subsequent to the interview between Mrs. Thomasen and Mrs. Bayly at Foster's Hotel,' the police .did not see fit to interview either herself or her husband until they had returned to their lonely farm m the hills. ,;-'■ There they , were entirely isolated, and could not, had they wished, have obtained the services, or presence,' of any legal adviser or friend. On the other hand, it is but fair to point out that, last October, when a certain .young man was required to give an account of his movements to the police, they -adopted the most unusual procedure of sending word to him, through the .' local constable, to come into the Central Police Station the following day. and. be' interviewed. ! When Tit is. realised that the young i man was within easy reach of legal i advice, and that "Mrs. Thomasen was ■ over twenty miles removed from the advice of friends or. legal' men, the contrast m police^ methods must compel certain, public comment which is

"YOU'LL DRIVE ME MAD" SAID ONE WOMAN

A , » ■■■ . " ' Dramatic Reappearance of Mrs. Langdon Who Confirms Her Sisters Version of Train Episode „ _ ■ .#■.•■

FRESH DEVELOPMENTS IN ELSIE WALKER MYSTERY

.■.•■■..■-■.' \ ;■ ■ (From "N.Z. Truth's" Special Investigators) There ; was a dramatic suddenness m the manner m. which the latest developments m the case of Elsie Walker came to light m the columns of "Truth" two weeks ago. The account of the interview between Mrs. Bayly and Mrs. Thomasenat \Vanganui, incomplete though it was, came like a bombshell into the silent serenity of the police camp and certain legal offices. Two women meeting m an overwrought state; one of them, if we are to believe what we are told, conscience-stricken and hoping to unburden her mind of a secret kept too* long for her comfort. The other, worried by a sequence of events which have played on her nerves and left her tragically inclined and tuned up to a high pitch of nervous tension. Hidden detectives at the secret, interview intent on hearing every word which passed between the two women. A great responsibility rested with those hidden listeners. Then there was a little man with a bag who seemed to be unduly interested and made his appearance again at Hamilton later. „.•:-. One woman, whose story is vital to the case, vanished for a couple of weeks and could not be traced even by her sisters for a time. Then suddenly she appeared m Auckland, after having spent a couple of weeks at Great Barrier Island. Move and counter-move. Busy lawyers/Letters and statements released to the public. But not m full.' And over all, a great silence, almost audible, from the police headquarters. A silence which has become monotonous, but yet is not impressive. . •''.»•'

time no element of tragedy had entered into the affair at all; it was simply a case of a car and a girl being reported missing. It was lato'r that tragedy developed. Doubtless it will be shown that the subsequent -chain' of events, unique, significant, remarkable, possibly even . sinister, perturbed Mrs. Thomasen not to_ mention many members of the public, and the fact that she had withheld vital information might very reasonably have preyed upon her mind. It is possible to ; discover m statements which have been, handed to the Daily Press by Messrs. Northcroft, Lusk and Fawcett subtle suggestions that, Mrs. 'Thomasen and her sister are half-castes, and m using tne word halfcastes very much may be conveyed. But so far as Mrs. Thomasen is concerned, she has on her mother's side the blood of chieftains. It is no secret that it has been said of her mother, Mrs. Brady, that so far as land is concerned she is_ one of the richest women m New Zealand. ■ . ' Apart from that, Mrs. Thomasen is a woman of extremely good education, and her integrity is above suspicion. For many years she was post-mistress at Waimama. She has had two presentations of no small value from' the people of that district, and she has m her possession a testimonial from the people who knew her well which expresses their esteem m no half measures. In Te Puke and Papamoa her reputation stands high with those who are m a position to speak with , knowledge and authority. Maiiy people have gained the impression that Mrs. Thomasen had notions of blackmail m her mind as a result jOf the. disclosures m the recent developments, and in. view of this impression this paper is fully justified m showing the public the other side of the picture. Again, it is but fair to tell something of the distress which affected Mrs. Thomasen's mind. Withholding as she did a vital secret, not wishing to give further pain to those she had considered her friends, it is not unreasonable to suppose that she looked for a way to ease her conscience and at

the same time not add to the unhappiness of the Baylys. It is m this regard that the native side of her forbears must be taken into consideration. Those who know anything of New Zealand are not strange to the "term Makuta, and there is little doubt it was the Makuta which was troubling Mrs. Thomasen. She was haunted — haunted, as she herself has said,- by the ghosts which were conjured up m her uneasy mind. Constantly, m her dreams, whenever she opened a door, there, on the other side of it, was some .one or the other of the Bayly family; she . could not s"leep m her customary serenity; some nights she would wake up trembling and distraught. She lost weight and .became nervy • and irritable as time went on. All these things considered, it may be asked how many others would have acted with better discretion than she has done. ' ; Had, everything m this most .remarkable case been on the face of things fair and square, so far. as the public, was concerned m the view they had of it, her position would have been far less' difficult. i But where she should have been able to give her confidence she was m great doubt; one thing on top of-an-other had tended to shatter many beliefs she had formerly held regarding the attitude of certain. persons. It was on Thursday, June 20, that the taxi arrived at the Thomasens' home at Raorikia with a message from Mrs. Bayly, who was then staying at Foster's Hotel. Very naturally, Mrs. Thomasen! who has a. family of four, was unable at a moment's notice to pack up and leave for Wanganui. What was there to debar- Mrs. Bayly from going out 'to see her?. Mrs. Thomasen had every intention of going m tp meet Mrs. Bayly on the Friday, but it can be proved, if necessary, that the j

Thomasens' car would not function. The day was spent by Mr. Thomasen and a friend- trying to rectify the trouble. They went m to Wanganui on Saturday morning, and the interview, so momentous, took place that afternoon. Mrs. Bayly met Mrs. Thomasen m the vestibule, and on catching sight of Mrs. Thomasen, we are told, the lady from Hamilton remarked to .-someone m the office: "Here she is." To Mrs. Thomasen she said: "So you've come, then!" Not a greeting which Mrs. Thomasen has said she expected. There is a lift m Foster's, but for some reason Mrs. Bayly preferred to walk upstairs, and before she started to ascend she said to one of the hotel staff standing somewhere handy: "Send up the hot- water bags." Did this refer to Detectives Revell and Sneddon? On the way up to the floor where Mrs. Bayly had her room, Mrs. Thomasen asked why they should have walked up the stairs when there was a lift. Mrs. Bayly, she says, replied: "I never thought about it." Mrs. Thomasen noticed, when they arribed at the floor where Mrs. Bayly's room was situated, that the lift was standing there empty. While the two women were climbing the stairs, Mrs. Thomasen fancied she heard the lift ascending. When the two women were inside the room, Mrs. Bayly locked the doOr behind them. Describing the position of the furniture, Mrs. Thomasen tojd how she took a seat on one side of a small table at the foot of a bed and Mrs. Bayly sat on the other side. Mrs. Thomasen declares that the latter then said: "You'll have to speak up, Mrs. Thomasen, be- • cause I'm deaf — I'm mad — and I'm all sorts." The conversation commenced, it seems, by Mrs. Thomasen asking. Mrs. Bayly if she had received her letter. Mrs. Bayly asked what letter, and added: "I don't know what you mean." "I wrote and told yod BUI was on the train," said Mrs. Thomasen. There being no knowing how or when the facts of this interview between the two women will be thrashed put, or how far the matter may go. "Truth" is taking the fair course of withholding; certain portions of the conversation as detailed by Mrs. Thomasen, and certain facts given by Mr. Cooney (Mrs. Thomasen's solicitor), for to make them public at this juncture might be prejudicial to the interests ,of those concerned. As the public now know, there were two detectives present during tho greater ; part of the conversation — Snedden - and Revell — and the men being.- presumably, impartial listeners will m course of time be able to testify with absolute freedom from bias as to what took place m that room and possibly something of what transpired outside on the landing and street. • Presently, Mrs. Bayly loweredher voice, declared Mrs. Thomasen, and said:. ."You don't want a tragedy at your door, do you?'* Asked to explain this , remark, Mrs. Bayly replied: "Death and that sort." Mrs. Thomasen has told "Truth's" representative that she was hoping by meeting Mrs. Bayly to find some way out of her difficulty. She hoped that she might obtain advice and help from Mrs. Bayly, and that Airs, Bayly would act and leave her conscience free; that she herself would not be forced to give a woman she had looked upon as a friend further unhappiness. She certainly thought that the solution of her riddle should come from Mrs. Bayly. During the conversation m the room, Mrs. Bayly allegedly said: '.'Mrs. Thomasen, you've got the upper hand,'.' nand then remarked that Mrs. Thor-

Mrs. Thomasen, remarked: "That's the truth; we dare not say anything else." As Mrs. Thomasen, distraught and nervous, moved about the room, Mrs. Bayly allegedly remarked: "I wonder if- anyone can hear us." \ She went to; the wardrobe and opened it and another door, but not-'the door which led to the bathroom, remarking that she had not reserved a bathroom as she had had expense enough. As Mrs. Thomasen's fears that she might be compelled to do something

she had no intention of doing increased, she insisted that they leave the room, and they both went out into the passage, where there is a small lounge. As Mrs. /Thomasen walked up and down m a ferment of worry, Mrs. Bayly followed her. She asserted that whenever they went near the door of what she thought was a bathroom, Mrs. Bayly asked the question repeatedly: "What do you suggest?" Mrs. Thomasen refused to make any suggestion. "If you can't say it, write it," was, she says, one of Mrs. Bayly's remarks, j

"You'll drive me mad," expostulated Mrs. Thomasen. Afternoon tea was suggested by Mrs. Bayly, but the other woman replied that' tea "would choke her." • A little later both wofmen made/ their way to the front door of the .hotel, and as a man, who Mrs. Thomasen identified later as Detective Revel I, passed them coming from the back of the hall, Mrs. Bayly, according to Mrs. Thomasen, said aloud: "I'm frightened of you." At first Mrs. Bayly objected to going into the street, says Mrs. Thomasen, on the grounds that a "Truth" man might be there, but when they had been m the street a few minutes, Mrs. Bayly appeared to be on the verge of tears, and dabbed her eyes with her handkerchief. "What do I look like when I cry?" Mrs. Thomasen says Mrs. Bayly asked. "Not like I do," was the answer. "She was too wild to cry," Mrs. Thomasen remarked to "Truth." "There Avere no tears." Two men continually passed them, or hung about m their vicinity, said Mrs. Thomasen, and there was another person, a little man/who seemed to be there for a purpose. He carried a bag. the two women were near these men, it seemed to Mrs. Thomasen that Mrs. Bayly raised her voice. After further discussion, Mrs. Thomasen, according to her story, exclaimed: "You must think I am ten thousand fools!" , . / Then Mrs. Bayly became dramatic, and, raising her voice, al- . legedly said she would throw her- ; self over the bridge into the river and float to 1 Mrs. Thomasen's door. Before the women parted, at about 3.45 p.m., Mrs. Bayly declared Mrs. Thomasen was displaying a considerable amount of temper, while Mrs. Thomasen was m a state of nervous exhaustion. That night the Thomasens stayed, m Wanganui and did not leave the town until about 11 a.m. on Sunday. Though the police must have known they were still m town they were not approached, but they had not been back home very long before a car came on the scene with Detectives Revell and Snedden and Sergeant McLean. A Jong conversation ensued, and Mrs. Thomasen reiterated her statement as to seeing Bill Bayly on the train. That same Sunday the police m Auckland, "Truth" understands, interviewed Mrs. Langdon m Belgium Street. Mrs.. Langdon then denied any knowledge of. Bill Bayly being on the train on the night of October 1. This has been explained by the fact - that the sisters had agreed to keep the matter to themselves, and Mrs. Langdon did not know that Mrs. Thomasen had broken her silence. The sisters had not been m correspondence for months. -.(••■'•-. No letter had passed between them since Christmas time last year. Realising the turn events had taken, Mr. and Mrs. Thomasen lost no time m. . setting out for Hamilton and Te Puke, to consult her lawyer, Mr. Cooney. Through a terrific storm of thunder and lightning they travelled, via Te Kulti, to Hamilton, where they met Mrs. Thomasen's sisters, Mrs. Richardson and Mrs". Langdon. The three sisters finally arrived at Te Puke. It is contrary to fact to say that Mrs. Langdon has persisted m her denial that she had seen Bill Bayly on the train. Naturally, she remained silent until she found that her sister had spoken. It had been, a mutual compact. At Te Puke, m the presence of Detectives Snedden and Bickerdike, Con-

tion m the whole letter of Mrs. Frank Bayly, and this had '; caused" her considerable distress. . ." With Mrs. Bayly, already m tears, Mrs. Thomasen has said 'she did^-not see how she could add; to , her distress by telling her what could. not be other than bad news. So;. she left without imparting the information about having seen Bill Bayly on the train. A vital witness . m the event of a further inquest or, for that matter, m any action that may be taken, was missing for some time from her usual haunts. Two of the missing woman's sisters combed the country m the hope that Mrs. Langdon could be found to substantiate Mrs. Thomasen's allegation that. Bill Bayly ,was a passenger to Te Puke on the ill-fated night. Almost of Monday night and Tuesday morning, Mrs. Thomasen and her third sister, Mrs. Richardson, searched every possible place m Auckland where the missing sister might be found. /•••''.' Mrs.' Thomasen was greatly worriedby a suggestion made by Bayly's solicitors through the v Auckland evening papers that there was a possibility of Mrs. Langdon not corroborating Mrs. Thomasen's story of what happened on the train. .'lt was Mrs. Langdon who first saw Bill Bayly on the train and drew my attention to him," Mrs. Thomasen told "Truth." '■-"' - - - For a fortnight the whereabouts of Mrs. Langdon, Mrs. Thomasen's sister, constituted a mystery. The police and "Truth" had been looking for her during that period. On Monday evening Mesdames Thomasen and Richardson arrived •m Auckland to search for -.their., missing sister,. On Tuesday they, found her: m a private house m Dixon street," Ohehunga. . . She had been absent from Auckland: for a fortnight at Great Barrier Island, and returned to the city on Sunday. On Tuesday afternoon the three sisters walked into "Truth's" Auckland office. - * \ Mrs. Langdon, during the subsequent conversation, emphatically declared that she had seen BillBayly on the - train that fateful night, thus confirming her sister's

statement, and reaffirming the information she herself had given to Mr. Cooney. She said she had not been approach-; ed by the police since June 2S, when, at Tc Puke, she had amended her original statement that she had not seen Bill Bayly m the Papamoa. district on October 1. On that date she told Detectives Bickerdike and Snedden that she had seen him on the train on October 1. Mrs. Langdon's previous interview with the poiice was on June 23, at Belglum Street, Auckland, when she denied that she had seen Bill Bayly, acting m accordance with the compact made with her sisters. Mesdames Thomasen and Richardson left Auckland on Tuesday for Hamilton. Mrs. Langdon intended following them on Wednesday, to staywith Mrs. Richardson. "Posting money-order to-day. — Nalder." This is the text of a telegram addressed "Mrs. Langdon" which was handed to her when she called at the Auckland Post Office on Tuesday to collect her. correspondence, upon her return to the city after a fortnight's absence. The wire was lodged at Nelson at 11.22 on August 2. Mrs. Langdon told "Truth" that she knows nobody named Nalder, and is not acquainted with , anybody residing m Nelson. The wire is a mystery to her. Up to Tuesday night no money-order had ar-l-iyed for her. She cannot understand' why anybody should wish to send her money, especially a stranger. Probably the answer to this riddle — only one of nfany m this extraordinary case — is that the wire was intended for another Mrs. Langdon. In an effort to arrive at the position as it affects all parties, "Truth's" investigator called on Mr. Frank Bayly at his home', Station Road, Hamilton.

Mr. Bayly extended every courtesy when greetings had been exchanged, but he begged to be, excused from making any statement for publication whatever on the unfortunate case. He expressed surprise when the newspaper man gave him certain information. It appeared to be news to him. As we have already made clear, . Mr. H. O. Cooney, of Te -Puke, is not seeking the limelight at the moment. He is prepared to bide his time and believes that before th'e unique mystery of the dead girl is cleared up he will have an opportunity to deal with it very exhaustively. Last week we mentioned the fact that all. the letters or correspondence which came into his possession from Mrs. Thomasen was handed by him to the police. Like good wine, his version of what took place will not deteriorate with keeping. On Monday "Truth" was accorded an interview by the Hon. T.--M. Wilford, Minister of Justice. Though it was lengthy it was not informative. ; „ Mr. Wilford would say very little for publication. His confidence m the police force is still intact. The context of what he: would say for publication was that the police had never let up^On their . investigations, even after they had been .crowned with laurels when the result of the Page Commission of Enquiry was added to the world's literature. The Minister stated that he knew more about the case- than "Truth's" investigators, which, of course, was only to be expected, but he refused to share any of his