Police Chiefs Still Aver That Elsie Walker Was Not Murdered

NZ Truth, Issue 1214, 7 March 1929, Page 7

Police Chiefs Still Aver That Elsie Walker Was Not Murdered

CONTINUING his evidence, Superintendent Wphlmann. told Mr. Currie that the rank of a chiefdetective corresponded with that of ' a senior-sergeant. When promoted he would take the rank of sub-rinspector, but on reaching that rank his services m the detective branch would not have' been dissipated. The special experience he would gain as a detective would render him a valuable officer. He did not think' that the time had arrived when the country could afford detective officers m small towns, said Wohlmann, m reply to the Commissioner; ' This concluded Wohlmann's evidence, and he' was replaced m the box by In-; apector ■ Jariies Mcllveney,' whose 1 examinatlon-in-chief was commenced by Mr. Currie. The inspector^ after : giving various details as ;> to hisy length of 'service and duties, said' he did riot think he could remember'any crucial decisions which went by the vote at any of their y conferences, and there was no disagreement between the officers. Mr. Currie asked Inspector Me- . Ilveney if Inspector Hollis was - overworked. ' The reply- was: "What he is doing, I myself am doing now. ..."'-. Hewent en to say that crime detection all came under his jurisdiction' before the new arrangement came into operation. In regard rto the work of the -'chief -detective; Mcllveney gave it as his .opinion that the work was heavy, {■nd that it would increase as the population increased,' but he could not say if the nature of the work had increased m seriousness. ,--"J y The medical evidence as given by, the : doctors at the'inquest again cropined up. The inspector said he was emphatic on the point that nothing, had been indicated by tho medical men, to show that Elsie Walker had died from any cause: other than exhaustion, that she had been the victim of criminal interference. -■■"■■ John Walter Hbllis, 1 inspector In

charge of the Auckland detective branch, was the next witness to be. called. Dealing with the question of crime investigations, Inspector Hollis stated that it was his "Hobby for the public benefit." The' chief- detective's work, he said, so far as responsibility went, was equal to that of a sub-inspec-tor,' :'.'-. ''':'; , :■' Hollis agreed that the work as arranged did allow time for a serious consideration of big crimes, and as to the working of the present system, his comment was: "Personally, I think it is a splendid idea." The inspector was then questioned concerning the conferences that were held, and, ,m reply, he said that it was not always the custom for senior officers "present; at those conferences to bring forward involved-questions regarding the investigation of crime, simply for the purpose, of bringing them under the notice of, their fellow , officers. .'.■.'■'■■:":>••'/.'':'■■-- The first ■ conference: relative to the dead girl, said Inspector Hbllis, was on October 6, the day followingy.the k discovery of her : body: ' From that date onwards, a great many direc- * tions had been given^on his own initiative and some had been given by the 1 conference. Mr. Currie: What Bteps were taken * as the result of the decision at the f . conference? ' Inspector Holiis: There were eeveral. For orie. thing Detectivesergeant Kelly was sent to Papa- ) moa after he had cleaned up our end of the district.. I think it was about October 16, but I cannot tell you exactly. To Mr. Page, Hollis admitted i that he kept a diary, but he did not have ,it m court. The Commissioner: It should be produced. 3 •'"'■' " •V; ■■■ ,".. (-■ ■ ■ Inspector Hollis went on to say that ■ all three officers, who attended, the conference were satisfied that: the iri- * vestigations were cleaned up, insofar as the Auckland district -was. concerned. ■'■y.'-:-' '' .'■■■' y', "The doctors seemed very ..worried : over the matter," said the inspector v later. ■ '■■■'" ■■■" -■'.■' -'-",'■ \'-. When pressed by the commissioner *■ to fix the date of the officers' interview Dr. Murray, Hollis -replied /' that he was unable to f say for; certain as they kept-; no diary..;, -y-y'y r "No writteri record ?" inquired ' Mr. Page. '■ '„ -.-■ -,' ■■ ."; '" ;y : Hollis: No, sir. - , Mr. Currie: Was it your opinion, at some stage that there had been no . crime ? ; - - -- -v -*-.- * ' Inspector Hollis: What I' heard from t the doctor was that- there had- been no crime, and' that the girl had died '' from exhaustion. It was. not a preconceived idea; iwe had to look for *everything. ", ■'"'. : ;y ■ \ How "do you reconcile that with *your saying that there was no crime?' r— l did not wholly accept the doctor's .report. We had to look. It -isv my

opinion that the doctor's report did not give, me '9, lead. Mr. ' Johnstone objected to the manner, in -' which' this question was .put, remarking tha't it looked as . though the: police officers were looking for a iead' from the doctors. '" TTlie question was accordingly amended, and Inspector Holli.s, in "•■ reply fj ; said: "There .was nothing . to' show that violence had been ; /used at all. In this case -we had -nothing to go up.on." . ' '. , 'He then added' that 1 the medical report of ..October t gave them no assistance upo^n the matter of the girl getting away with- the car .} . Mr. Gurrie: What, about "the money? • Hollis :' We were not concerned with that. .That rested with Mr. Eccles. ; . ' ■ .-,,. Mr.' Currie. wanted to. kno/vv the time the car was abandoned. • "Oh, the constable sent in, a report," Hollis replied, adding that he believed he saw the report the day it arrived, at the central station. The report gave the car number' as '2^847, and mentioned .that the vehicle had been found abandoned that! morning. ; •' Hollis explained that this matter was not in, his district, but in , Mr. Wohlmann's. ; Mr. Currie was persis'tent: in his • attempts to ascertain whether or not . Hollis, saw it Was his job to ' know when the, car was abandoned. 1 He was informed; by the: inspector that efforts had been made to traceElsie Walker at Epsopv;or in the city."-; :._; :i -y " •' y: '■:' ,'/ . ..' :; .' : ■. ■' Mr.' Currie still pressed' the"' p"pint, however, and elicited the reply from Hollis- that, ' "IV couldn't see. it \yas coming." This referred to % the . death of the girl. .:'■'■. . .; ■..'..- .[.■ './'" In reply to Mr. Page',' Hollis said that Mrs.. Anderson's statement did'' hot come to him . until the file was conir pleted in . December. He only; sawparts of it. Any special investigations he> might order he would inquire into first; : He, 'admitted, when further questibnlpd.'^that, he lfad directed inquirieslto^jm made as the result of an anonymous ilettec/ , ; 4 'As : lateji'as' ! (pctober 9," asked Mr, Gurrie, "Kelly did. riot know and you did ti6t'knbw t aboyjt Mrs. Anderson?" "I knew,.' verbally," replied the inspector. '-.; ,;. . In Kelly's Hands Mr. Currie: If you knew about Mrs. Anderson .why did you let the inquiry, go through Mr. Hammond? Hollis: It was in the hands of Detective Kelly. Though this information, he added, might be incomplete so far as Mrs. Anderson . was concerned he did not think it incumbent on himself , to ask for any further report before referring 'if -to the chief-detective. , . Asked "by the Crown Solicitor if Constable Mahoney had been instructed to discover when the car was actually found, the inspector replied: "I am not. positive, but I have an idea that something of the kind might have been done." . • ' v It was 'shown by Mr. Currie that there was a mistake in the. report regarding Mrs. Anderson where 9.30 p.m. had been given as the time, and this raised a protest from the other counsel representing the police. "The one. thing Detective-sergeant Kelly, has not -enquired about," observed Mi*. Currie, "is the time the car was seen at Papatoetoe." "He mentions the movements- of the car and that covers it," said the* inspector. , v In his opinion the evidence'regarding the time the car was first seen at Papatoetoe was satisfactory, and he believed house to house enquiries were made and finger prints were looked for in the car. Addressing Mr. 'Currie, the Commissioner said he did not think Inspector Hollis was the inyestigat- ■ ing mind at that stage, neither did he think that Mr. Currie was right in saying that he was the directing mind. It was at a much later stage that Mr. Hollis came into it. Hollis stated that he had gone into the case with the chief-detective but he could not say for certain when the car was found. His 1 reply to the question as to whether it was a relevant matter why the car was abandoned did not elicit a very definite answer except his explanation that inquiries were made for Elsie Walker, and that there was/nothing of great importance on the file until the body was found; such things as missing cars were, an every-day- occuri ; ence. "Yes, but a girl was missing,"; said Mr. Currie. ' "I told you we were making inquiries," Hollis replied. ' Wanted Details "I suggest all the police did /was . to put a stick into the benzine tank and find out how much benzine was left," observed the .Crown Solicitor, "and that the examination was superficial." The inspector replied : "An examination took place." . ' ; . Pressed to give details as to what was done, , he said he did , not .know exactly what -was done at that stage. All. he knew was by verbal reportr and the examination was hot .to the ;exact mechanical condition of the. car, but to ascertain who drove it. .:,,*, To Mr. Page, he said that Detectivesergearit Kelly and Constables Mahoney and Butler made the examination. He was not present. "A search was made," Continued the inspector, "of the locality where the body had been found by detectives at 1 a.m. It was moonlight, and the reports showed that this search lasted till 3 a.m. ? \.;;v ,•'•- The detectives were again da the spot at 10 a.m. They. had not been out there at daybreak, he explained, because they were attending at the morgue. "At, that stage it was simply the dead body of a ;wbman-^-murder, or any. other matter had not been brought in," said the. inspector. • '•■Did you suspect foul play?" asked Mr. .Currie. • ■ . . . "No,"- was the. answer. "Nothing had : ''beeh "reported by the doctors. There -was nothing to be suspicious about." ■* ' ■'■ '*■„:,;' ■;■■,'..' ■ "■■•■■■."■-.■'■'; deflnUe^ statement xcpuld be 'obtained froin Inspector Hoilis as to his conqlusiohs regarding; the matter, of clothing .or . ; m'on(Jy.- The case, -lie said, had^ been >ih the hands of the chiefdetectivel ■. / './ V ' ■"/' As to whether the f right thingshad been done^in.: removing the clothes ' • f ronv , ErsieV Wajker's body «at- the , morg lie He^ 1 mai htai ned that it had : . been done in accordance with the , 1 police" regulations. Y ; "I" suggest 'from the, vcry. : start," said Mr. .Currfe, '"you should have entertained the.iclea of, death by violence." , The; inspector replied that; there had" beeh^ nothing in the report to stop them looking for Jt, but he aaid it came as a surprise when the doctors altered the report in December. ■ .:■''■■ Mr. Moody asked Mr. Currie if he cou.ld N say that. Mlbb Walker had been murdered, and in his turn Mr. P.'ige asked Mr, Moody how the Crown Solicitor could make such a statement. When . reference ,wm mad© to ' a

DOCTORS DENY RESPONSIBILITY

"They Are Trying To. Throw The Whole Thing OnThe Medical Men" "TRUTH" THEORY 'SAME AS EXPERT VIEW

(From "N.Z. Truth's" Special Auckland Representative) :■..,■■■''..'.' -1 ; ■'■'■'■ - ■ •'■,.-■''■"■■.■■■.•. ■ ■ ■• -. ' ' ■ - - v The inquiry, which was conducted at Auckland by Mr. E. Page, S.M., to determine the actions of the police m their handling of the Elsie Walker case, largely resolved itself into a conflict of opinion between the medical men and the police witnesses. v As the evidence bearing upon the girl's tragic death was unfolded, remarkable disclosures were made, and there were many sharp. passages. at arms between counsel and witnesses. Chief interest during the past week centred on the questionof the dead girl's clothing, and there was a dramatic moment when Dr. Murray, from the witness-box; vehemently denied- certain /statements of the police.

special circular sent out to all stations on the Monday after the girl's body .was. found the inspector said: "I first saw it on Monday, I think. 1 glanced .through it and I did not find fault: with, it Replies may have come to the chief -detective or. myself; I am uncertain, but I glanced at one from RotoruaL" , \- As to a notice inserted in the Police Gazette the inspector said he fancied he had. something to do with it^it was put in the Gazette for future data and it was not. there to assist in investigation, but for reference^ . , • Questioned as to the allegations that detectives had tried to search a dwelling, contrary to regulations, where a certain person was living at Henderson, Inspector Hbllis answered that he knew nothing about it He had not read the depositions of the inquest, and he asked who. ■■•was supposed to hove acted in the 'manner alleged. ■"I never heard of it," he added. "My attention was not drawn to it." "Oh, come," urged the Crown Solicitor. v •"I am, on my oath," retorted the v inspector. 'i am telling you." Continuing his evidence Hollis said ■he was not aware he had stated that Detective-sergeant Bfckerdike had tried to get information under a pledge of confidence. » . ' \ In another "matter, where Mr. Currie alleged there had been delay, the' in.spector said it had not come under hjs notice until January,- but it was shown that nothing had been done to verify a certain statement till January, 2s. Hollis did not feel responsible, <he said, for any laxity in the inquiries not made. Asked who should be held responsible, he said it would be the detectivesergeant making the inquiries. "If inquiries made in December and January," said Mr. Page, "should have been made earlier, with whom fries the blame lie?" "On the field, officer making them," the inspector replied. "He would be expected to follow them up; if he failed he . alone is to blame. The report in October should have come before the Nothing Wrong chief-detective almost immediately." To Mr. Page he said: "If there was a serious aspect to a case the field officer would be expected to ask for guidance at once. He could not say at what stage the chief-detective became, responsible for any laxity. He could express no opinion on any, officer's laxity in following up investigations regarding certain persons. The inspector said he saw nothing wrong about one person, having been interrogated twice by one person, and three times Vy- another; he thought repetition in. detective work quite good.; , When the Crown Solicitor asked Mr. Hollis whence came a report regarding some lollie papers, he seemed at first reluctant to give an answer, but he eventually said: "Out of 'N.Z. Truth.'" He added that this matter was investigated, like the others; but the papers, it was proved, had been left in the scoria paddpck at Panmure by some boy. scouts. Other inquiries, he went on to state, were at the discretion of the officer in charge (Of the Hamilton district, and he (Hollis) did not interfere. He had no preference himself whether inquiries at Te Puke were made .by a constable or a detective. "Motive" was the next line of interrogation taken up by the Crown Solicitor. , ■ Inspector Hollis, in reply to questions said he could not agree that if there had been abduction it would prove motive, neither did he see any reason why the photograph of the dead girl, the only one the police possessed, should have been parted with after the inquest. "Did you ever make, any notes of the pros and cons of this case when you were working it out?" asked Mr. Currie. , "No," replied the inspector.. The brief, explained Mr. Hollis to counsel, contained nothing like the quantity of information obtained by his men. ■■'■■■

Later he said: "As a matter of fact, we : are still Inquiring, and still getting anonymous matter which is being looked into. I .cannot say when the man on the .'Kaimai' was interviewed. If Constable Collins, erred m his opinion he erred m good nnmnamr tt«, ...... thing possible has been done that could be done. No investigation was scamped, and if there was any responsibility it certainly does not rest at my door." At this juncture Mr.- Johnstone produced, ; and referred to, a d,b cum en t which Mr, Currie had not seen nor heard . of until tho previous morning. ' It proved to be a corifidential paper, the nature of which did not then transpire, and it was the property of Police Commissioner Mcllveney." Mr. Page ordered it to be put /m as ari exhibit, arid to be on view for all counsel to have access to.it. ■■ When the Commission r e.s.u.m ed next day, - Inspector Hollis reentered the wi t-hess-box,

It .was elicited;by Mr. Currie from the. inspector that three -statements, had been taken from certain persons near ; Te Poke, and. m none of these had any reference been made to a certain younjg man, William Bayly, who had only made his appearance m the inquiries on October 6, the day that Constable Jackson telephoned Hamilton, and Hamilton 'phoned Auckland. This message had been received m Auckland at 3.40 p.m. on October 6. When this -statement was read for the, first time' it was made public that another certain young man, Trevor Bayly, had arrived home at 2 a.m- to discover a' car missing, and the gatesipen, . The statement made mention of a pointed toe mark somewhere near , the house the heels of which indicated protruding nails. A young man was mentioned m this statement as being a bad character, but the transmitter of the message said he was unable to discover that this young

Man-had been m or about the Bay of Plenty about October 1. The statements taken from this young man and from others, who were interrogated as to their movements were dealt with at some length by Mr. Johnstone, who establisned the fact through. Hollis, that there was nothing to indicate that this young man had not told the truth. Mr. Hollis said he believed he had been examined at great length at the coroner's inquiry, when it was found that no suspicion rested with him. "Does that fairly represent the finding of the coroner?" inquired Mr. Page, and he quoted Mr. Hunt's finding: "It is possible suspicion may rest against a perfectly innocent man for the rest of his life. This might have been avoided had prompt and intelligent inquiries been made." "I had no suspicions of him myself," announced Mr. Hollis, and he supplemented this by saying that no evidence by this young man was briefed, or in-

eluded, when the file went to the Crown Solicitor, Mr. Meredith, for the inquest. This was verified from the files; To Mr. Page, the inspector Said he did not include the young man. as a suggested witness. A moment or so later Hollis said there were rumors m the Te Puke district, but no evidence, and this was reported by Detective-sergeant Bickerdike. In reply to Mr. Page the inspector said he thought the order to search the locality came from him. He was not sure. "Mr. Hammorid did everything that should have been done," the inspector told Mr. Moody.; .- <• ' Mr. Noel Johnson was told that, "a detective investigates according to what he finds; he cant-b e told to go and do a certain thing." "Does the chief -detective direct the course of an investigation?" Mr. Johnson inquired. "He may," Hollis replied. - Mr. Currie made' a persistent effort to discover who was responsible for the direction of investigations, but he Was; unable to obtain a really definite answer. Inspector Hollis stated that the grounds for his belief that Elsie

Ten Hours In The Witness Box

Walker's death was due to -natural causes were based on his visit to the locality, but he was unable' to say for .certain when that visit took place; it. iriay have been a week' after her body was found or it may have been a little longer. .The other grounds for his assumption, he -said, were based on what was brought to his notice by the detectives. He did not wish to contradict the remark made by the medical men that evidence was lost by the girl's clo,thes being removed, if they said that was so. •Mr. Currie made it very clear -i hat any discussions which Inspector Hollis had had with the chief -detective when they met daily, as the, inspector had. stated was the case, must of necessity be brief, for between 9.30 and 10 a.m. the chief-detective would discuss such cases as he might be bringing before the magistrate that morning. Mr. Page questioned the inspec-

tor closely as to whether he had formed a definite theory about the death of Elsie Walker. Hollis replied that his theory was that the girl had gone away of her own accord dissatisfied; she had been left, the night that her cousin Audrey Bayly arrived, to do the work, and being of a peculiar temperament she became upset, took the car and cleared out. In support of this the inspector mentioned the fact that .the girl had not made her bed that day. He also said that if money was stolen it was she who took it. As to the motor-car key only the girl, and those m the house, knew where it was kept. Having arrived at Papatoetoe the girl had realised she had done wrong, she abandoned tlie car — she knew the police would be informed and would be looking for her — andishe wandered on on foot keeping, out of busy thoroughfares, by the direct road from Papatoetoe to where the body was found.

Tired, weary and exhausted, she crept into the scrub and lay there, head downwards. One of the reasons Inspector Hollis gave for replacing Detective- sergeant Kelly by Detective-sergeant Bickerdike was, he said, due to certain matters appearing m the press. While Hollis gave particulars of the actual methods adopted . m inspecting the abandoned car for finger-prints, the court was cleared, and the pressmen were instructed to take no notes of the evidence. « Once again before he left the box, which he had occupied for over ten hours, Inspector Hollis reiterated his statement as to his theory of the girl's death saying: "This is the official theory and the one I still hold." The finger-print and photographic expert of the Auckland police, Detec-tive-sergeant Robert John Issell, was then called to give evidence as to the efforts made to find any legible fingerprints on the abandoned car after it had been driven to the garage, practically a couple of days after 'it was found derelict at the corner of Great South Road and Station Road, Papatoetoe. This witness, informed the court

that his examination had been entirely without >result, but. he did say m reference .to his fellow-officer, Detectivesergeant Kelly, that he was sufficiently experienced for any examination he may have made to be quite useful. ' . On Chief-detective Alfred Hammond , being called to give his evi^derice, by arrangement with the Commissioner, Mr. Moody was the first to examine him. Hammond commenced his evidence by saying that he had made many suggestions to the doctor such as suicide, or other contingencies, or even murder, though it did not appear to be the latter. On the Saturday morning when the body lay m the morgue he himself did not then know the identity of the girl. , Describing the various wounds on the girl he said the arms m places had the bone exposed, but there were no marks whatever on the body to show any other injury except by rodents. "I have had considerable experience of bodies which have met their" death by violence," said Hammond. Apart from their being no chest development the girl was strong ' and well made. Poison suggested itself to him <m consequence of a brown stain below the mouth. Prior to the scalp being removed the medical men, said the chiefdetective, stated that there was no visible injury likely to cause death and no sign of physical interference. *- "On his return to his office, Hammond read Detective Waterson's report, which was on his table. He had commented to Detectivesergeant Kelly that, m his opinion, Waterson Avas entirely wrong m his opinion that the girl had met her death by violence.' Hammond had requested Kelly to find out where the clothing was. The clothing was produced from the storeroom. It was all damp, and was hung m the yard to dry. Detective-sergeant Kelly and Detectives Waterson and Mills were sent out to the place where the body was found with instruc-

A Careful Search

tions to make a careful search. They were also told to make a careful inspection of the Whippet car. The Hamilton police were then rung up by Hammond. When the chief-detective communicated with Dr. Gilmbur, the latter said they could find no cause of death. Detective White, at Hamilton, was given such particulars as Hammond had, and he was asked to get into touch with Constable Jackson and to tell Mr. Frank Bayly to come up to Auckland. Hammond said he rang up some out-district stations on the Saturday. "There was a riot at the racecourse that afternoon, and that evening I was much taken up m ' providing men for certain duties m connection with that riot," stated the chief-detective. That night he talked over the case with Detective Kelly. The out-stations were advised to make inquiries from petrol stations, and to try to trace the car and occupants. Hammond thought the girl might have come -by way of Waihi arid KatiKatl — the shortest way. Mr. Frank Bayly had said to witness on the Sunday that Elsie had probably started off for Opbtiki, but had taken the wrong road and arrived at Rotorua. He was quitß satisfied she could drive. There followed an interview that Saturday night between Mrs. McAllum and Hammond, as a result of which -he was satisfied that a certain person had not been away long enough to go to Papamoa. Describing the mark on one of the shoes which he examined the chiefdetective said he was of opinion that the shoe had been used on the clutch. On Sunday a certain person was told to come into the central station on the following day because the police car was not available to go out to Henderson. The missing car was 1 first reported as having been seen about 2 p.m. on October 2. Ail the police officers, and Dr. Murray saw. the shoe and the clothes of the girl.. To Mr. Page, Hammond said he arid the doctor, he thought, discussed the stains on the clothes and their nature. I That was on the Sunday.

Her clothes were flimsy, and would not stand, any rough usage, and they. had had none m his opinion. The. good order of her clothes was a matr ter'., of discussion between Dr. Murray and hifriself. Detectiver sergeant Kelly, said Hammond, was given v the case on Saturday, as he had been m it from th c y ',' discovery of th c body. Kelly had serit out for a Power Board Receipt while a certain! person was detained m his office. "This person had said -he had no y tinie tp pay attention to what he termed his s illy cousin at Papamoa," said Hammond, and he was satisfied with the movements of this ..'■• man.

There was no motive at any stage for any person to haye . murdered or injured her, asserted Hammond. It was about four or five days . after ,the post-mortem examination that Dr. Murray first . seriously mentioned the bruise on the scalp, he alleged.. ■ '.. After about the first week m October,. Detective-sergeant Bickerdike conferred with Inspector Hpllis, who while' the Supreme Court was on, was practically m charge of the detective work. ' Detective-sergeant Kelly, said Mr. Hammond, was not recalled from Te" Puke. He came up to report. "It looked to me," said the chiefdetective, "to be a case of a, boy and a girl, not a man and a girl," when he detailed some orders' he gave for certain persons to be examined. The chief- detective gave- it as* his opinion that this case had received much more attention than any other case he has known m New Zealand. The case had not merited the extent of the inquiry because it was not a murder neither did it have the elements of a murder. . ■ .:. ' ... .:■;.-. The publicity had been _ responsible for a great deal of investigation. which was unwarranted. >.., - . Reporters, he described as "enterprising," had rushed .about the country getting scares v tjere and there. When he was examined by Mr. Currie, Hammond admitted it would, m his opinion, have been better if the body had' been" left alone. ' ' ■'," He suggested that Elsie Walter might have' been .eaten' by rats ..while alive.. =1 she might even have wiped her jaw with v .h|»r yhandkerchief. -. HammWdy believed a, verification of the^JVgi tress' statement .was made, and it was shown? that it was taken as late: as '.October ; V; 27;T -': ". :' MrT Currie was curious as •. to thisdelay, and the chief -detective said they had no cause to disbelieve the statement of a certain person. , Detective Kelly had been to Te . Puke before this statement was taken, said witness, and a "Truth" . reporter also. v . } He thought there was no reason for verification from the standpoint of the police, but only from a public point of view. . "What was done m. December was of no value,", said the chief-detective, who

NeveriVerified

added: "What could we have done?" "You could have made the investigations at Henderson," observed Mr. Currie. "Who was there at Henderson, m the name of heaven, who knew the man?" demanded the witness. "No one saw him there." Mr. Currie referred to a number of statements taken on December 18 at Glen Alvon, and Hammond replied that these were due to an unwarranted suspicion cast on a certain man. These statements m December were not taken by Hammond's direction. That of the .waitress was taken Under his instruction, and he thougnt it important. Hammond informed the Commission | that he attached no importance to the Henderson group of statements. "What do they know about this girl, and how could they know?" he asked. "We had no reason to disbelieve a certain person's statements. The mattei' of the hat was never verified. Dealing more fully with the hat question Hammond asked: "When the man's wife's statement was taken, what was it worth?" He also asked how, out of the forty shops where hats could be bought m Karangahape Road, they could verify where MrSi Bayly bought a hat. The inqtiiry^was then adjourned. On resuming* on Thursday morning Chief -detective Hammond returned to the witness-box and the Crown Solicitor continued his examination^ , The matter of the hat purchased by Mrs. William Bayly was again brought up, and it was shown that it was identified as a hat similar to that Which had been purchased. The chief-detective was emphatic that there was nothing to justify taking a certain person for a tour of the hat shops m Karangahape Road, and there was no possible justification for such a procedure. To Mr. Currie, he said there was a possibility of collusion with the saleswoman.. "Then you might have had some cause for complaint." " Hammond said there was a conflict of reports from Te Puke. At first it was said the girl had left m the car

Very Definite

with a man and then this was contradicted. It was Detective-sergeant Kelly's idea to go to Te Puke. Auckland, it appeared, had been relying on. the Hamilton district. " ; ' Mrs. Anderson was very definite, but Hammond would not go" so. far as to say that she was very (accurate. : Her : statement, he thought, did riot conic to him at once. ' "I never had .the opportunity to peruse the brief when it- was prepared," he. said. /- "I v was short-handed, and work , was piling up. I was not given an opportunity to. appear at; the inquest, arid I am glad, to ;be able to wappear now." ■•yyy^- ;. This statement -by the chief- detective was uttered" with sorrie feeling. About the time Detective-sergeant Bickerdike took oyer,' the chief-detec-tive , was : ill, . and .from then onward he had, lie said, little to do with -the inquiries, but he discussed the case daily with. Kelly. Reports of importance, lie went ori to say, went on to the inspector; those that were not were put on the file. Dr. Murray's report did not go ori the file. ' . : "Why did; you not put it ori the file?" asked Mr. Currie. . Hammond was- not able to explain why he had not done so. ,Tests were not made, .the witriess a.dmiffed, to prove how- much driving might have been done to produce a mark on ,a. shoe similar to that on Elsie's. "•:-. '- :'-; ' y..-.y :- The clothing was dry when Dr. Murray .was shown it. y The doctor had ; an Opportunity of seeing every garment, and to the best :0f Hamiiiorid's belief he could have seen every : articte. ' The trend of ■'" evidence given by Superintendent Wohlmann,' Inspectors Hollis arid; , Mcllveney, arid Chiefdetective Hammdrid, had been such that the Crown Solicitor, ' Mr.: Currie, thought fit to.ycall Drs.' Murray and. Gilmour, arid they made their appearance m they courtroom .when the sitting resumed on Thursday afternoon. ' When he had first seen-the body: in the rndrgue, 'said Dr. Murray, it was divested of clothing, and; the clothes were, not to be seen m the mortuars'. It was customary to remove the clothes unless a~ serious crime was thought to have been^ committed, he said.... ..■'■;:';''-'•''. ■■' '> :'■ ■■■ '■""''":■. '- ' The clothes • were -usually removed .:•"■'• -■'-■- rY:-: '■:■ ' ■ . - ~ ' *'Y.: ; -r. : ::V-"-— '■■■.-"'

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiHiiiitiiiiiiniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimH by the morgue attendant and placed somewhere handy. In cases of shooting and stabbing the clothing . would not be taken off the body. "I made no suggestions as to a possible crime because it " was hot. my. business to do so," the doctor told Mr. Currie, ; who was examining him as to certain evidence given by the chiefdetective. As' to whether the police had made certain ; suggestions m the morgue *on * the morning of ..October. 6, Dr. Murray remarked: "No, why should they? I was competent to do the examination." To other statements read from the evidence of the chief-detective he replied warmly: "I shall deny that totalis'. .1 say that's totally; untrue." • A moment 1 later he. added to another query: "If he says that it's a he." .With some force he said that i Mr* Hammond and Defective Kelly were not m the morgue for more than ten minutes' after, lie .arrived, and certaih.ly, not there when he carried out a. cer-i tain examination. . V"" -Asked as to the girl's eyes the doctor^ said the eyes were half open when he; saw .the body. It was immaterial: whether they were open or closed.' Whether the eye was open or not.hadno bearing on death by violence afterso.lorig atime. ; - ; ' ' This statement Dr. Murray explained., to Mr. Page by saying that; the eyesmay contract with rigor mortis and dilate again. His estimate of the time the girl had been dead was correct to within half a day. • "Did you pass any remark about not having seen the clothing?" asked Mr .< Currie. ;;' "Nothing- at all,"" was the doctbr'sf answer. "I took it for granted that, when the police had removed the clothing there could be nothing at all on It, as on all previous occasions when there had" been marks they had been shown to me." "The actual cause of death is still unknown,", replied Dry Murray to Mr. Finlay, "but if we had got those clothes at once it- would have strengthened our decision." "I don't .think," he conceded, | "that m a court a jury would con- ■:'.'

vict on the evidence for a homicidal act." "They are trying to throw the..., whole thing on the medical men," declared Dr. Murray, who went on to ask: "Why were the bloodstained garments withheld?" ' "Did Kelly open one of the eyes?" •asked Mr. Moody. "Kelly did nothing of the sort. ' I made the examination, I think, myself," Dr. Murray replied. ' . "I did not ask where the clothing was; I trusted the police," he said later. When the inquiry was resumed on, Friday morning: Dr. Walter Gilmour entered the witness-box. * It appeared from Dr. Gilmour's evi^dence that when Detective-sergeant Bickerdike called to see Drs. Murray arid Gilrnour he (Bickerdike) had said that, as the first report seethed somewhat indefinite; and as .the medical I men had now more to go upon, they might be able to be more definite.The supplementary report was then written. '■■>.- . ■* Mr. Allan: Moody then, examined., ,the doctor at length. .;yy, ">YZ~!Y"Y The original report on the day the supplementary/ report was sighed so far as his memory went, , stated Dr. -- ; ,: But vhe riot vAcpntradiCt':De-tective-sergeant ' Bickerdike if."!,; he swore 'the .''-, first medicaly report .was slgried on Deceiriber :6.^"y:"; ■„,/;' yly'."You have been r> ; ;ihter^ie]ffedyyby other people about this ; cas|?" prompted Mr. Mopdy;! V: ';Whq:: was' this -most energetic : reporter ? Was « it • not :>the 'Truth' reporter.?"-. '.'-'.'.', „.; *y i Dr. Gilrnour: Yes. •••"■' ":''.■ "I may have seen him twice," he explained. Pressed on the point he said he saw the reporter at the hospital , laboratory,, and he stayed for. about half an hour. - . ri , ... "If the 'Truth' reporter Was there a second time it was ■ a short visit," said the doctor, "and he advanced a theory which suggested foul play. "On the second time he came at me I. think lie said he had been through to Papamoa. "I said very little, but I was very interested; it was an interesting case," announced Dr. Gilniour. "I told him nothing; I realise my responsibilities. He produced, a stick which he wanted us to examine for, blood." - "Was it the 'Truth' reporter's Considered opinion that the girl' had been struck on the head?" asked counsel. Dr. Gilmour: If he. did say she died as a resu|t of a blow on ythe . head his opinion coy incided.. with ours, but I can't say-ithat he defi-y •.;'. nitely said it was his theory, -y "I read most of the 'Truth' reports, m. this particular case," the doctor continued, "and I knew 'Truth' had advanced this , theory." ' - The inquiry had not concluded when this edition went to press. ■ V