AFTER-WAR SICKNESS

New Zealand Times, Volume XLIV, Issue 10281, 16 May 1919, Page 3

AFTER-WAR SICKNESS

FRIENDLY SOCIETIES

DEPUTATION MEETS SYMPATHETIC

RECEPTION,

A large and representative deputation from the friendly societies of the Dominion waited yesterday upon Sir James Allen (Acting-Priine Minister), the lions. \ M Myers (Acting-Finance Minister and Minister in charge of Pensions), and J. A. Hanan (Minister in charge of friendly Societies). The deputation laid before Ministers the position of the friendly societies with regard to tho great strain likely to be imposed upon their finances by the after-war sieKnesis of members who had been on active service, and asked for further. Government u&sistnnce to meet such liabilities. Uu this and other points raised they received sympathetic replies from Muiisl°Mr T. Fathers (Wellington llechabitesj stated that the deputation conning iewesentatives not only lrom Wellington, but also from Auckland, Napier, Neison, Likristchurch and Otago. the leaders and members of friendly societies gene.Mly wer* very- much concerned at the possibilities that might arise from the return to civil life of members who had sosu active service. Ninety per cent, ot Che members of friendly societies were so situated that their circumstances allowed of little further provision than the benents provided bv the societies for times of sickness and death; and it was therefor* vital to 'hum that the financial position oi the societies should bo maintained. He had been actively engaged in tho work of his society for over forty years, ,iud Im would point out that until. 19W iho whole government and administration of the societies had been based uipon experience gathered in times of peace. I.'hey hud also been guided in great measure by the expert advice always so readily furnished by the Friendly burettes Department. They were now 'aced, however, by an entirely new feature, and were likely to meet experience" lever provided for. They were proud that nearly 15,000 friendly society members had responded to the call of King and country. He did not wish to enlarge upon tho hardship* and privations mdured by these men; and they knew that all that was humanly possible was being done by the Government to give back to the sufferers their health and -trength. But many cases would be beyond repair, and. that fact created n very serious problem for friendly po-eietie.-i by reason of the after-war sickness that they would have to face, ami the responsibility placed upon them by sick pay and early deaths. ASSISTANCE ASKED FOE.

That aspect of the matter had been referred to by the registrar of friendly nocieties in his annual report, present**! Co Parliament in 1918. The registrar ooiuted out that while societies might exempt themselves from liability during the war, there could bo no discharge from ufter-disohai'KO liabilities, which must bo met by the societies, and constituted an additional burden for them to face. Tho societios had been instructed to keep accurate returns of their after-war liabilities, and tho department was also obtaining all passible information from Home, so that they might havo tho benefit of the much larger experience of the Old Country as to the extent of such liabilities. They liad come to-day to formally request that the Government would jrraut to friendly M>cietios the fulfilment of the assurance already Riven that the financial' stability ot the societies should not be "impaired by anr afier-wur sicktiess caused by ttta Service of their members in, the Expeditionary Forces.

Mr Fathers also pressed for the elimination of the iraw limit of .£2OO a year xii regard to (he maternity bonus neheme. Tnev .were of opinion, "he said, that the conditions as to cost of living and so forth had so changed since the limit was imposed that its application to friendly society members should ceas«, and they urged, also, that the maternity bonus granted to their members <<£4) should be increased to the JX granted to contributors to tho National Provident Fund. The arrangements for tho payment of tho maternity bonus through tho Post Office Savings Bank worked very well, he pointed out; and ha asked that arrangements should be imwkt -wihc(roby the ffrMSudly £>pici'et'|~i3 could keep their current accounts' in triePost Office Savings Bank, and draw on them by cheque, thn* grpat'iv facilitating their work and enabling them to get interesst on their accounts instead, of ha vine to pay the ordinary banks for keeping them. A VERY HEAVY STRAIN.

Mr T. Aitkeh (representative of tUo Auckland United Friendly SocieUea' Ooj. ference) stressed the point that the afu,i war sickness of members who had Doeu on activo service was undoubtedly going to be a very serious strain on the finances of tho fi'.ondlv societies. It was, in fact, a liability which thej could not at present assess. But it would be very heaw and lons-la sting. The friendly societies, ho claimed, were decidedly en titled to relief 'in regard to the matter. as their contribution tables had »>een compiled by tho actuary onh to ni. > ordinary peace conditions. The young and strong members, who usinuiv i!uustituted the irreatest. asset of the «j----cietics. bad been called away to trio war. and because of tho passing, tne wounds, and tho hardships they had endured, had returned to them us a ncavjliabilitv instead of an asset. This was evident already, but tho liability •was likely to become more and rnoro marked as time went on. and tho lives of members would probably be shortened o> thuii' hardships. It was only right, therefore, that the Governent should reimburse ..tho friendly societies for the strain put upon their resources. In urging tho increase of tni> maternity bonus from Xi to IS. Mr Aitken pointed out that friendly societies' memoers not only had to pay" their own contrib l . tions. but also had, as taxpayers, to help to subsidise the contributions of the con tributors to the National Provident. Fund. As to enabling ftiendly societien to draw by chequo upon deposits in tho Post Offico Savings Bank from his knowledge as an official of Post Office work ho thought that a .system satisfactory to all could be brought into forco with very litllo trouble. Mr J. Kershaw (Wellington, secretary to tho New Zealand branch of the Man. Chester Unity of Oddfellows) stated that his society wa« the only <>uo that h"au undertaken to pay sick-pay to members on active service. This liability had proved a very heavy one, amounting already to from £7OOO to ,£Boro, and they viewed with very great alarm the question of after-war sickness. Tho Government subsidised their contributions to a. certain extent, for which thpy wero very thankful, but they did not know yet to what extent tho subsidy would go. For one member they had paid over in Mete-pay, and thev did not know how nrach further the liability would extend, because he would bo permanently on the funds of the lodge. They considered that the State should b(-nr wm! portion of that liability. In New South Wales the Post Office Savings i Bank allowed deposits to be operated ot. by cheque as they suggested. Th*. *>*■ tern had been in operation for p. onnniderablo time and bad uiven great satisfaction. Owing to the exigencies of the war the quinquennial valuation of the friendly societies had been greatly delnved, but he hoped that very shorty thnt would hf rcctifiHi. Mr TV. Sullivan (Olago, Manchester Unity or Oddfellows) supported the previous speakers. SIR .TAMES ALLEN'S REPLY. Sir .Tames Allen said that he was very plad indeed to sc" the delegates, and thanked the friendly societies for all that they had done for their members during

the war and for what they would do for them now that the war was over. With regard to after-war sickness, he thought that they would admit that the Government had shown that it was sympathetic with them as members of friendly societies. Every member of Cabinet was sympathetic towards the work of friendly societies, and they would do all they •ould to see that they continued on a sound basis, and that their finances did not suffer by any added responsibility due to the war. Those wore matters that must be considered by the Government, and they would be brought before Cabinet. The Government had subsidised to the extent of half the costs of the benefits in the case of members of friendly" societies v ' uo had lost their lives abroad, and had also contributed towards iheir sick and funeral benefits while on service; and the Soldiers' Financial Assistance Board had made a large number of grants for the payment of friendly society dues. Mr Fathers: No, no. Not a large number.

Mr Sullivan: We have paid them ourselves.

Sir .Tames Allen: At'any rate, they tad paid them in some ' instances. He iutt quoted that to show that the Government was sympathetic towards the friendly societies. <Hear, hear.) DEFENCE DEPARTMENT'S WOR-Tv.

They knew, said the Minister, that the Defence Department recognised their- responsibility for sick men after their return, if tho sickness was" due to "or aggravated by their'service at the front; ar.d thev granted them a full pension during the time that they were in hospital, unrests there was some good reason to the contrary. The department also .undertook j to treat in hospital free of cost the n.en who became unfit after discharge. They *rere doing all, they could for the men medically unfit to restore them back to health again. Then, if the men were, disabled, they provided pensions in proportion to the amount of the disability, end the pensions were in no way, affected by a man's earnings." Some of the pensions were permanent; and many more would become permanent so soon as the department could say that, they had done ?!' they l could to remove, .the disability, rnd that the remaining disability was a permanent one. At the present time the pensions liability was ;£1,700,CG0, and he supposed that it would go up to JKJ.pOQ.COO a year; and then he hoped that it 'would, gradually fall. That was the Defence Department's responsibility, and he thought they would agree with him that the department was meeting it fairly. He knew that their pensions, speasing generally, were the highest in the world —higher than in Australia, Canada, the., United States, or any other country„he knew of. So far as their difficulties were concerned in regard to sick troubles after the war, he was not sufficiently acquainted with the working of the friendly so-, defies to say whether there . was ' any,, overlapping between their responsibiliiy and that of the Defence Departmant. He knfw, however, that there was a scheme for putting in a separate class all the men returned from the war, rnd tho proposal was that from time to time their sickness rate should be estimated and compared with the ordinary sickners statistics for .men who had not been ; to the war; and if then tho amount of after-waf sickness was greater than that prevailing in the ordinary course of events in peace time, he believed that the proposal was that the Government should bear half and that the friendly societies should bear half. That has come before Cabinet, but no definite conclusion has yet-been-arrived "at. There were many sides to the question, but he could assure them that Cabinet would give every consideration to any proposal financially sound which would'tnable'Hne friendly societies -to keep financially sound and did not call for an unfair contribution, from the State. He Would say nothing further about it then. The raising of the maternity bonus to j£6 would require an alteration of the law. His colleague, Mr Myers, could say more abput that than he- could, and ails? ©bout the removal of the J&Xd wa.ge limit. That also was ■a . matf.oir for legislation, and nothing .could'be done till next session of Parliament. P.0.5.8< CHEQUES?

As to the depositing of their funds In the Post Office Savings Banks and drawing on them by cheque, tho matter had been up before, and he held in his hand the reply Riven in April, 1017. by the Actinc-Postniaster-General. "This is not a new question/'' he. stated in that reply, "the request, to be allowed to operate on savings bank' accounts by cheque has often been made. It must bo refused again on the present occasion. Those who ask for these facilities do not seem to bear in mind that the Post Office Savings Bank is a bank'for savings, and not a trading bank. It exists solely for the encouragement "of ' thrift, and not to facilitate ordinary banking business. The- statement made by-' Mr Salt that the deposits would be increased if withdrawals by cheque were allowed is not a recommendation. The additional deposits which under this scheme would bo made by friendly societies would 'be of no advantage to the post office. All the money in the Post Office Savings Bank is practically at call, and heavy deposits made purely, as. tobe withdrawn in largo susyvfor .investments in mortgages' tor"' other" "similar securities, might seriously'embarrass the finance of the post office, rending the time when the Government may think it proper to lake up ordinary banking business as its functions." "A member of the deputation said that t.hor were thpre to encourage thrift. Sir James Allen: I hojie so, and to help the friendly societies too.

Mr Kershaw said that his society had at present «£i«X) to-rCSOOO in the Post O'ffice, and thev could withdraw it for investment whenever thev wished. So tho conditions objected to obtained now. Mr Fathers said that the cheque system worked quite satisfactory in Xew South Wales; arid he hoped that the Government would allow them to hnvo the use of the Post Office for their current accounts and to operate on thein by cheque, so that .they.,could- anjoy-jtho increased facilities, and pet interest on their accounts instead of having to pay the banks 10s to keen them. The idea was not. to deposit large sums and lift them as large sums. Sir James Allen said that (heir representations would be placed before tho Acting Postmaster-Genfiral and would bo considered bv Cabinet.. ~ . ■ GRATEFUL I-OE-PAST HELP."

TUo Government "had" Won' 'assisting' in roitarcl to tho contributions to sick and funeral funds by men on active service: And he thousht that the sacrifices made bv friendly society members in paying tho dues for those on active service wa» ono on whit-h fhev should be complimented. The Government had been doinsr vsomethinft. ' Mr Fathers: We are jrrateful for what has been done. ' ' / The Government Inst year, said Sir Tames, had voted .£IO.OOO for the purpose of such assistance. He had asked •vhat the total liability was up to datfc, but tlicv had been unable to te'l him. The Government had already -shown their sympathy, and b« w»a isure Uim thev would not tro back on that policy. Tho matter would have to go before Cabinet to decide what further assistance should be eiven; arid be would have nlensuro in r"ittiu|j it before his co!leacues. He understood that they had seen tho registrar of frieffdly societies, and that tho matter of the quinquennia* valuations liad now been arrnnfred. Members of th» deputation : That is so. Ministers, said Sir James AJlen, nil wished to 1 halt? them no far " the Government could. They would have to "Haminc into the matter: and after Cabinet, had considered it he would riv" them, a further answer in greater detail than he had then. "A STATE LIABILITY." Mr Fathers: The societies think that

if there' is any excess of after-war sickness, as it would be directly caused by the war and by the results of service in the Expeditionary Forces, tho societies should not bo asked to pay a portion of it, but that it is a liability of the State. I would like to make it clear that that is the opinion of the friendly societies. STATEMUNT BY MR MYERS. The Hon. A. Myers said that he had very little to add, except to associate himself with the remarks made as to the manner in which the Government had shown its svmpathv with the good work done by the friendly societies. It wa» quite evident that the conditions laid down in peace time did not apply tinder war conditions; and ho" thought . that though the Government had. gone' to "a <jood extent in -assisting thorn th(J*ret>rJßscntations they had made aa to justify a "review of. tho matter. As to the maternity bonus, he had' already prepared for submission "to Cabinet' a vroposal foi the. removal- of the X2OP wage limit and for the increase of the bonus to .£5. . , ■-, : (.>■*• The Hon. ,T. A. Hanan" aiso . made a sympathetic :,.reply.,,,, i and explained list the delay iii preparing the quinquennial valuations was due to the depletion of the department's staff owing to uie war.