LOCO. DISPUTE

New Zealand Times, Volume XLIV, Issue 10279, 14 May 1919, Page 7

LOCO. DISPUTE

A SERIOUS POSITION 95* PER CENT. OF MEN FAVOUR STRIKE. EXECUTIVE ASK FOR CONCILIATION. At noon yesterday the executive of the Locomotive Engineers, Firemen, and Cleaners' Association waited upon the Acting-Prime Minister, Sir James Allen, to lay before him the objections of the association to the final proposals as to wages and conditions of labour submitted by the Minister for Railways, the Hon. W. H. Herries, and Mr R. W. McVilly, General Manager. Messrs E. W. Henderson, president, W. McArley, secretary, and M. Dennehy acted as spokesmen for the deputation. Mr Henderson thanked Sir James AHen for granting them the interview, which, he said, was possibly the most important ever held in the history of any railway organisation in the counjtry. I have the honour, he added, to | convey the information to you that in ! compliance with the desiTe of the members of the New Zealand Locomotive, Engineers, Firemen and Cleaners' Association a ballot was taken to ascertain their opinion of the proposals submitted through their executive by the Minister for Railways. The men decided by practically a unanimous vote—a majority vote of 99i per the proposals do not meet with their approval. Some of the proposals give no indication that there is s, desire to meet the men's demands. On the contrary, they indicate that the Government's desires are in the opposite direction. As intimated to the Minister for Railways, some of the proposals give the indication that the Government have a desire to meet their demands; yet, on the other hand, there is an indication that much is to be taken away. PROPOSALS RESENTED.

The men resent any proposal which aims at lowering the wag© of a man who has become unfit to perform the highest duties, when the unfitness has been brought about by the conditions of the men's work. Many of theso men performed higher duties for the inferior rate of pay, and it does appear to the men that this is a distinct injustice and not in accord with the intentions of the Government as expressed by the Minister for Justice in the conditions for the police.. The men also resent a proposal which aims at lowering the wage of cleaners, either present or future. The shortage of staff in the locomotive d©r partment, compels the men now in ser-, vioe to work much overtime and this is injurious: to their health. Therefore, you will readily understand why the men strongly resent.any proposal which wilLdiscaurage the -'recruiting of cleaners. . . - 1 With regard to the proposal to lntro- . duce a, percentage of the engineers with a wage of sixpence a day more thatn the others in the same grade, I have the honour to, intimate *o you that tins proposal was rejected by this union when the late Hon. J. A. Millar was Minister for Railways. Therefore, tho re-introduction of such a proposal is particularly resented by the men. The introduction- of such' a proposal, which was already rejected by rfihe men, at the present juncture when the mem were showing so much feeling in regard to their wages and conditions of work, appears to the executive council as being most indiscreet, and it will not tend to bring about a peaceable settlement of .the dispute. The fixing of the bonuses to wages does mot meet the clAims of the men, which were before tho Government by means of petitions in tho year 1913.

| PENAL RATE FOR OVERTIME. I It would ba impossible at this inter- | view 'to explain the whole of the proposals in, detail to you, but, on. broad lines, it may be possible to give some I indication of the men's desires. With regard to overtime's rates, I have to respectfully draw your attention to the decision of the Arbitration Court, which provided for timo and one4ialf for all overtime, whereas the Minister's proposals provide for time arid one-quarter, which has not had the desired effect in reducing overtime. The men have no desiro for overtime, which undermines their health. Experience has proved tihat heavy penal rates do reduce overtime on the railways; and, in fact, in many instances abolished the overtime. Therefore, in the interests of the men's health, it is their desire that time and one-half be the penal rate for all overtime. It is the desire of tho men that a more generous consideration of their demands be granted. I have also to advise you that every peaceable means of obtaining justice for the men has been taken advantage of by the men's representatives.. I have to advise you that the mqn have decided by a majority vote of 95$ per cent, to cease work until their demands are given mora generous treatment. As there are still other avenues by which a peaceable adjustment can be made, I desire, on behalf of tho executive council, to appeal to you to grant the use of a conciliator who would be acceptable to the organisation. Judge Stringer or Judge Sim will be acceptable. In conclusion, 1 desire to assure you that we, as ihe men's representatives, do sincerely desire that the dispute shall be fixed up in an. amicable way, which will bo satisfactory to both parties dispute. SIR JAMES ALLEN'S REGPLY. First of all (said Sir James Allen, in reply) I want to say that I am glad to see you; and I hope that, whatever has come out of your negotiations so far, nothing will be done by you to create any disturbance of the railway traffic. I hope that you will be reasonable, and realise that tho Railway Department has very carefully considered the olaims you hare put forward, and has made an honest effort • — bo I am assured—to meet your case and deal with your difficulties. I understand that you havo some doubt as to whether the Minister »for Railways and tho General Manager arc in earnest about the proposals they havo made; and I want to give you tho assurance that the Government, Mr Harries, and Mr McVilly are quite in earnest, and that ii; is their intention to carry out what they propose in a. most liberal spirit. I ask you to accept that assurance as coming not only from Mr Harries, but from myself as head of tho Government. I have asked Mr Herries to let mo sno tho filo m rerai'l to this matter, and on that filo is the statement which was '■jiiinio to him liv vnu wlmn von mot him . Tho

statement you made to-day contains a. portion of that, but it contains more. Mr Henderson: It is elaborated. PAY. 17s A DAY.

Sir Jamos Allen: I. of course, cannot ko into the question of your pay,. oxcept to tell you what you already know—that tho Railway Department has agreed to make tho war bonus of Hi a day part of your pay; and I am informed that that has brought you in-, to the position in which some 12£ per cent, of your locomotive men will be receiving some 17s a day and the others 16s 6d a day, wnich is higher—so I am told—than is given in any individual State of the Commonwealth of Aus- ! tralia, except one. The only State where the wage is above that rate is, 1 understand, Queensland. This proposal on the part of the Railway Department they aro quite in earnest aboi-tj and tho administration, so I tar as they are concerned, will be as conciliatory as it is possible to nuiKo it.

I understand there has been another very jjroat concession made to you, which I am sure you will all appreciate. That is tho concession with regard to overtime. As I understand up to now you have only received overtime after working 48 hours during the week; and the concession now made is that after i eight hours' work per day, overtime will be granted at the rate of time and a-quarter. It is, I understand, only to-day that you have asked for time and a-half. Mr. Henderson: That is correct.

Sir James Allen: I presume that has leen represented to the Ministei and the department; and I can only assure you that they will give it every consideration, and give you what thoy believe to, be a fair deal in the matter. As to the other part of jour statement, I presume that all the difiioalties set forth in it have b»en put before Mr Herries.

Mr Henderson: Yes, sir. DECISION TO OEASE WORK.

Sir James Allen: I cannot go into them, because I do not understand the technical details. It must be for Mr Hemes to advise the Government about these proposals in detail. ■ I do not know whether this latter part has been represented to him, about your having decided by a 95J per cent, majority to cease work if your demands are not more generously met. Mr-Henderson said that that part had not been represented' to Mr Herries; but the executive had represented to him that the men practically unanimously, by a 99$ per cent, majority, had decided against his proposals. Sir James Allen: All I can say in regard to that is this: I must, in the first place, submit it to Mr Herries and to Oabinet. But I would like to ask you to consider the situation. The Government wants to he friendly to its employees, and wants "its employees to he to the Minister and to those who have to administer the department—{hear, hear) —and at a time like this, it is essential for us to hang together. The railway service has been a great credit to New Zealand; and so long as we can carry on a service as this service has been oarriod on, there is, some encouragement for the State to enter into other businesses.. I would, therefore,;ask. you railwayman,'-" even "though''you think you have to make some sacrifices for tho time being, to consider whether it is not advisable for you to accept what is apparently the final offer of the Minister; and I can only assure you that if in the course of time it is found that it.is not a fair and square deal, you oan rely upon it that the Government, whatever Government may be in power, will listen to you if you have a fair case, a good case.'- I can make no promise now," except' that' your representations will tie submitted to the Minister and to Oahinet; and I nope that the attitude which you have indicated the men will adopt will not be adopted, hut that they will oontinue to work the railways. I recognise that it is a very serious matter, because you havo come to me to present your case; and Mr Herries was quite willing that I should see you. Both he and I are quite friendly, towards you, and so is the Government as a whole. But we have responsibilities also to the State generally and to the country; and between them all we have to pick out the course that seems tho right courso to pursue, and pursue it no matter what the consequences may bo.

STATEMENT BY THE SECRETARY. Mr McArley said that he had listened with a great deal of interest to the Acting-Prime Minister's statement, and, possibly, he could enlighten him in some respects as to the proposals put before the union by the Minister for Railways, and give him Borne guidance in regard to tho appointment of a conciliator to adjudicate on tho position that had arisen. The exeoutivo, he assured the Minister, were desirous of using every possible amicable means before the extreme step was taken. Both, the rank and file and the executive of their organisation realised their responsibilities j but at *ho present moment it was absolutely impossible to come to any agreement with the Minister for Railways in regard to his proposals. The organisation, however, was quite prepared to accept the decision of a conciliator, provided the agreement was arrived at around the conference table. Six James Allen: What da you mean by thatf ~. a . vi Mr McArley: It is a conciliation table, and if each side accepts a certain thing we aro prepared to accept that. But it is quite impossible to arrive at any agreement unless you appoint some conciliator to act in the matter. The two men we suggest aro both held in high esteem by both sides —the men nnd the department. We are nob asking you to appoint a man from our own side —that of the class wo represent—but a man you think acceptable from your aide. There was, ho contended, no indication of » desire on the pari of the department to meet the men's demands, but an indication that the;department desired to move in the opposite direction. Tho union had asked for an increase in tho wage«_ of tho locomotive men.; but the Minister for Railways had gone in the contrary direction, and had reduced the wages of a portion of tho locomotive men. The union had also made a request for the adoption of tho of automatio increases, which was quite in accord witih tho prlnoiple adopted in the Australian States quoted by Sir Jamea Allen; but tho Minister for Railways had gone in tho opposite direction and had Drought forward again a. proposal which was rejected by the men in 1912 when tho late Mr J. A. Millar was Minister for Railways. "SCANDALOUS I" He wanted to stress the point that ilicro was no employer in tli© country, bo his knowledge, and he was sure also to that of tho Acting-Prime Minister, who had had a request put up for increased wages and had gono in the opposite direction, and it was a scandnltms ■filling to think that tho Minister Cm Tr.oHw.fnr. i„«+.oo,* «* ~~.~H.-~ «,„;..

request, had decided to reduce wages. He referred to the case of the cleaners. Future cleaners would be asked Xv commence work at Is a day less than cleaners wero receiving at the present, time plus war bonus. Tho men had kept the railway service going, in spite of the fact that the staff was reduced by onehalf during the war, and he claimed that they were entitled to some consideration. But, instead of 5s 6u u day, plus 2s war bonus, or 7a 6d a day in all. the cleaners were to be asked to start at. 6s dd <a dayl He heia that there was no employer ot labour in tne country who had done such a scandal.ous thing as the Minister for Railways ■ proposed; to do. Sir James Allen: I am not going to listen to language of that kind. I I must ask you to speak courteously. I Please, don't us© that language to me. I I can't admit the word "scandalous."

Mr McArley: I don't know what other language I can use. It is unprecedented. In 1912, he added, when Mr Millar was Minister for Railways the men had" refused to accept anything in tho direction of the proposal now reintroduced by the Minister for Railways, the proposal to set up 124 per cent, of the men as a special class and pay them an extra sixpeneo a day. He could not understand tho .Minister reintroducing a proposal that the men bad already definitely declined. Sir James Allen: Is it a fact that you declined the proposal to make a 12J per cent, special class, with an extra sixpence a day. I cannot understand it. Mr McArley: It was declined m 1912. Mr Henderson: It is tho naioro or their appointment; it is the conditions of the appointment of the special clasß that are unacceptable to us. SPEEDY REPLY ASKED FOR. Mr McArley again stressed the necessity for the appointment of a conciliator. If Cabinet saw its way to appoint a conciliator, the executive and the men were prepared to accept him on the terms stated.

Sir James Allen: The point about a conciliator will be put before the Minister and before Cabinet. That is all I can say. I cannot go into the clot ails.

Mr McArley: When can we have a reply? The men are bothered about that.

Sir James Allen: Mr Herries has gone away to Tauranga. Ho will be back at the beginning off the week, and we generally have a Cabinet meeting about Tuesday. Mr Henderson : It is important that we should hav< .. speedy reply. I have nsnd every influence to prevent trouble. Sir James Allen: I am sure you have.

Mr Henderson: And I will continue k> do so; but it is necessary that we should have an early reply. «ir James-Allen: We will give you on answer hot later than Tuesday, when Cabinet meets.

Mr Henderson said uhat they thought, judging by the Acting-Prim* Ministers speech at Dunedin on the Whitley (Report, that they had his sympathy. The lines of the Whitley Report were the lines of conciliation that they had proposed. He could give reasons why the proposals of the department"wefe most -'unacceptable to the men. ' The executive had given the men the fullest information regarding the Minister's proposals, and they were unacceptable to the men. It was decided by a 99i per cent, majority, almost unanimously, to' reject the Minister's proposals, after all the information they could put before the men. And "by a 95* per cent, majority they had decided to strike m the event of: an amicable settlement not being arrived at. A VERY. SERIOUS POSITION. He regarded it" as a very serious position, indeed; for he knew the position so lor as industry outside was concorned, and thoy did not want any industrial trouble if it could be prevented Therefore, they appealed to an James Allen to appoint a conciliator—either of the gentlemen they had suggested—so as to bring about a peaceful settlement of the dispute. Mr MoArley said that he wanted to tell the Acting-Prime Minister and the peoplo of New Zealand that tho executive had had repeated requests from certain sections of the organisation to go out on strike. But they had restrained the man and kept them in check to give him an opportunity to deal with the whole matter. The executive considered the Acting-Prime Mm ister the representative of the people of New Zealand, who would be hit the hardest if a general strike of tho locomotive men took place. He hoped that Sir James Allen and the people of New Zealand would appreciate the attitude taken up by the executive in tolling the men to go back to work under conditions totally objectionable to them. "KEEP THE PEACE."

Sir James Allen hoped that tho executive would continue to keep the peace. He knew that sometimes in that and other organisations, the exeoutive had a difficulty in restraining tho rank and filo. "I cannot," he added, "go into the general question as to whether or not we can produco better relations between employees and employers. I have said something about it, and hope to say something more before long. He hoped that, in the meantime, the executive and others concerned would do their best to minimise the friction that was constantly arising between' employees and employers. ■ Mr Donnehy said that it might bo thought, or it might be objected that .the men had wrongly interpreted tho schedule of proposals submitted by tho Minister and the department; but he assured Sir James Allen that that was not the case. Where the men wero in any doubt as to the interpretation, the executive had submitted these doubts to the department. They had cleared up all the points; and, with full information before them, the men had almost unanimously rejected tho proposals. Mr Henderson said that the executive had asked'Mr McVilly if tho interpretation they had put upon the schedule was not the sama as he had sent out to the officers of the department, and ho had replied that it was quito the same.