PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIV, Issue 5825, 29 November 1879, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Friday, November 23. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock NOTICES or MOTION, PAPERS, ETC. The usual number of papers, reports, and petitions were brought up, and notices of motion given. Among the latter was one by Mr. Tataroa that he would on Tuesday introduce a Bill to provide a speedy means of determining the validity of the confiscation of Maori lands under the provisions of the New Zealand Settlements Act, 1563, and the several Acts amending the same,— Sir F. Bell moved, —That the Speaker be requested to procure a copy of the Ordinances of all the late provinces, and to have the same bound and placed in the Council reading-room.— Carried. MR. MACKAT’S PAPERS. The Hon. Mr. MANTKLL moved,—That Government should direct that a new edition of the introductory parts of Mr, A. Mackay’s compilation of papers relative to native land purchases in the Middle Island be prepared by that gentleman and printed ; that such new edition be translated into Maori ; also, that the resolution of this Council, of 13th October, 1875 —(That it is desirable that the papers relative to native land purchases in the Middle Island, collected and compiled by Mr. A. Mackay, should be translated and printed in : the Maori language during the present year) be rescinded.—Motions carried. THE PROPERTY TAX. The Hon. Mr, HAHT moved, —That should the Electoral Bills now before Parliament pass into law, and the financial proposals of the Ministry be g’ven effect to, there be laid upon the table within thirty days of the opening of next session a return showing the number of persons named on the electoral rolls of the colony who will then be chargeable with property tax, and the number of persons so named who will not then be so chargeable. READINGS—COMMITTEE. The Fencing Bill and the Hamilton Volunteer Hall Site Act 1878 Amendment Bill, were read a third time and passed. The Reprint of Statutes Bill, the Timaru Waterworks Bill, and the Wairarapa Racecourse Bill, were read a second time. The Council went into committee on the Mines Bill and the Registration Bill. After some progress bad been made with the former, progress was reported. The passage of the latter was interrupted by the adjournment at 5 p.tn. On re-assembling at 7-30, The consideration of the Registration Bill in committee was resumed.—The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse proposed an amendment to clause 6, the effect of which would be that tbo present rolls should not be taken as the basis of the new ones, and that after every election the old rolls should be destroyed, and ones compiled entirely dc novo. —The amendment was opposed by Mr. Whitaker, who said if it passed, the Bill would have to be re-caat. The proposal of the Government was to get new and pure rolls with the minimum of trouble to all parties. The amendment of Mr. Waterhouse would cause the maximum of trouble. It was for the Council to decide between those issues. —The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse said if his suggestion was not adopted the rolls would be very Impure. A man would have his name on several rolls, as was notoriously tho case iu Victoria. Suppose Wellington city were divided into districts, a man living at Te Aro would have his name on the roll there. Then he might move to Thorndon, and eventually to Kaiwarra, and so would have his name on three rolls. There would also be names left on of men - who were dead. The Hon.' Mr. Ret- ; NOLD3 in a great measure agreed with Mr. Waterhouse, though he did not like to oppose the Government, who had given great attention to the subject.—The Hon. Sir F. Bell supported the amendment as the only way to effect a pure roll.—The Hon. Mr. Wilson opposed the amendment.—The Hon. Mr. Whitaker said the registration officers in making the new rolls would not be obliged to include every name on the old rolls—only those of which he was satisfied. After a very long discussion, the amendment was so altered as to make it compulsory on registration officers to satisfy themselves that every name be placed on the roll bad a right to be there.—The remaining clauses were passed with several amendments, clauses 10 and 19 being postponed.—The Hon. Mr. Wilson proposed an amendment that no name should be on more than one roll, but this was rejected on the voices. The Otago University Reserves Leasing Bill, and the Lawrence Athenaeum Bill, were passed through committee, and the former read a third time and passed. The Council adjourned at 10 o’clock. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Friday, November 28. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. general. The usual routine business was transacted. QUALIFICATION OF ELECTORS BILL, This Bill, with amendments, was sent down from the Upper House, and it was resolved to take it into consideration on Monday. QUESTIONS. Mr. SWANSON asked the Government, — What action has been taken to give effect to the recommendation of the Waste Lands Committee in the case of the petitions of the Auckland Naval Volunteers and the Auckland Artillery Volunteers, presented on the 2nd September, and reported on the 14th October, 1878 ? The Hon. JOHN HALL replied that the artillery had not served the necessary time to enable them to obtain their land scrip, but that the navals had, and that tbo scrip would prob \bly be issued as soon as some further information was received. Mr. SHRIMSKI asked the Government,What action they intend to take with reference to the construction of a telegraph line from Oamaru to Ngaparu ; and whether they intend to include the same line in the Public Works Statement ?

The Hon, JOHN HALL replied that the contemplated line would run for a distance of 17 mile l !, and that the place was a very thinly populated one, and the Government would not feel justified in carrying on the work unless the residents would be prepared to guarantee that a certain amount of business was done. Mr. SHRIMSKI asked the Government, — Whether the members of the Royal Commission appointed by the Government to inquire into the management of the Auckland hospital and lunatic asylum have been paid for their services, as well as the chairman ? The Hon. JOHN HALL replied in the negative. ' . Mr. PYKE asked the Native Minister,— Whether the services of Dr. Buller cannot be dispensed with without any injurious consequences to any person or persons ? In asking the question Mr. Pyke said he trusted that in answering it the Native Minister would inform the House whether this was not the same gentleman who procured the trial of the Maoris, for whom he was retained, being put off, by which delay he would obtain a continuance of fees."

The Hon. Mr. BRYCE replied that he was not aware that Dr. Buller had procured the adjournment in question. He would give the bon. gentleman the particulars of the matter. The Government transactions in the purchase of native lands had assumed considerable magnitude, and the Government had been compelled to obtain the assistance of counsel. A. representation that they must obtain such counsel was made some months ago. It was well known that Hr. Bnller had been employed in the native land claims cases, and it was considered that he was the best person the Government could get. He was now actually engaged in these cases, and he might inform the House that he did not receive a fee of ten guineas a ’day except when actually in court. With regard to the last part of the question, he : did not suppose if Dr, Bnller b

services were dispensed with there would be any very great injury done. Mr. PYKE was understood to say he had thought Dr. Duller got ten guineas a day whether employed or not. Mr. SHKIMSKI asked the Government, —

If they will take steps during the recess to have a more careful exploration made than has hitherto been possible, in the short interval of time at the disposal of the Engineer-in-Chief, of the passes in the Kakanui Ranges, with a view of ascertaining whether a praoticaale route exists for a line of railway connecting Central Otago with the Waitaki and South Conterbury ? The Government replied that the line was not at all a promising one, for its lowest level would be 300 ft., and it was not proposed to have the exploration at present.

The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON asked the Government,—Whether they have any power to give authority to those persons who are, at their own coat, carrying on establishments for fish culture, to take trout and salmon spawn from the rivers of the colony ; if so, whether they will grant the necessary authority ; and, if not, whether they will bring in a Rill next session to give them power to do so, independently of the acclimatisation societies ? The Hon. the "PREMIER replied that the Act of 1867 gave the Government the power asked by the hon. gentleman, and the Government would carefully consider the matter.

Mr. HUTCHISON asked the Government, —lf they will: state the amounts paid for saddlery aad saddlery requisites in Wellington, from month to month, during the years 1878-79? The Hon. JOHN HARR said the amount paid for saddierv in 1878 was £8 35., and in 1879 £l4 Bs. Eor some years to come it was not-supposed that they would require more than half a dozen new sets of saddlery. In answer to a question by Mr. TomOANA, the Hon. Mr. Butob said the Government did not intend to bring in a Native Lands Bill this session, when they would be unable to give it the proper care and consideration which such a measure would require.

Mr. SHKPHA.RD asked the Minister for Public Works,—(l) Whether the item in the detailed Statement of the liability of the Public Works Department, under the heading “ Railways, Provincial District of Nelson.—Stillwater contract, Ambealey-Brunnerton llailway, £12,234,” ought not to be included in the list of contracts in the Provincial District of Westland; (2) whether the item in the same return, and under the same heading, 41 Bellgrove contract, Amberley-Cook Strait Railway, £7216,” should hot have been charged to vote 72, 44 Nelson-Foxhill,” in the Immigration and Public Works Appropriation Act, 1878? The Hon. JOHN HALL replied that the Stillwater contract had no bearing whatever on the'return laid on the table. With regard to the second part of the question, the line was sometimes called by one name and sometimes by another. ’ ’ RETURN OF COUNTY COUNCILS. The Hon. JOHN HALL promised that a printed summary of the return laid on the table the di»y before should be got up for the convenience-of members. NEW BILL. The Him.-Mr. BKYOU introduced a new Bill entitled the Confiscated Lands Inquiry and Maori Prisoners Trials Bill, and it was read a first time. k - ■ BILLS part. The District Law Societies Amendment Bill and; the Kumara Education Reserve Bill were read a third time and passed. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Sir GEORGE GREY rose to move the resolution of which lie had given notice with regard to the report of the Election Committee on himself and Mr. Richardson. Mr. MdLEAN rose to a point of order. He contended that if the journals of the House were burned it could not affect the law. Even if the motion was carried what effect wou'd that have except leading to a great loss of time. The SPEAKER ruled that the House having ordered the entry in the journals, had power to expunge it. Mr. McLEAN asked what would be the effect of that ? The SPEAKER replied that that was a very different matter.

Sir G. GREY would not keep the House long. He was nominated for Christchurch before tie was nominated for the Thames. He was returned for the Thames before the Christchurch election took place. He believed if there had been any opposition at the Thames, he would have preferred standing for Christchurch. At the time he was elected for Christchurch the law declared that he was eligible to be elected, and no law afterwards passed ought to have altered that election—it ought not to have 1 been retrospective. On those grounds be held he was justified in asking the expungement of a portion of the report. He also asked that that part of ttiereport saying that the Hon. Mr. Richardson had been duly elected should be expunged from the journals of the House. ; Sir George contended at some length that; Mr. Richardson had no right to have been declared elected, and that it was an act of cruelty to the voters of Christchurch who had voted for him to lose the privilege of their votes, and said this was an important question, which'concerned every voter in New Zealand. In conclusion, tie moved, —1. That the portion of the report of. the City of Christchurch Election Committee, which states that the committee do hereby determine that Bir George Grey was not duly elected for Christchurch at the last general election of members of that city for the House of Representatives, he expunged from-the journals of this honorable House ; 2. that that portion of the same report which states that the Hon. Edward Richardson was |duly elected, and ought to have been returned as a member in the House of Representatives for the City of Christchurch, be also expunged from- the journals of this honorable House. -

Mr. TOLE seconded the motion without comment.

The Hon. JOHN HALL was sorry Sir George Grey had brought forward this question at this late period of the session. He thought that the ; arguments adduced by the hon. gentleman should- have been brought before the committee, and not before that House. The Parliament of New Zealand had provided for the trial ■of such petitions as" these, and he did not see how the House could interfere; and he might state that at that time there were only two of the committee who Were not supporters of Sir George Grey. It would be a "bad' example for the House to set to go behind the decision of a special committee. He denied that the law to which Sir George had referred had been made subsequent to the date of the election. They should take up the question on broad grounds, and say they would not override the decision of the committee, which the law had said should be final, and he asked the House not to entertain the resolution of the hon. member.

The motion; for' the ' Speaker leaving the chair was then put and declared to be carried. A division was called for, and resulted in the following numbers :—Ayes, 38 ; noes, 21. Ayes (36). —Adams, -Allwright, Andrews, Atkinson, Bain, Bowen, Bryce, (Jolbeok, Gibbs, Halt, H. Hirst, Hurst,'Hursthouse, Kenny, Masters, McLean, Montgomery, Murray, Oliver, Ormond, Pitt, Pyke, Kiohmond, Richardson, Kolleston, Saunders,- Stevens (teller), Studholme (teller), Sutton, Swanson, Seymour, Tomoana, Trimble, Whitaker,Willis aod Wood.

Noes (21). —Barron, DeLautour, Finn, Grey, George, Hamlin, Harris, Hutchison, Ireland, London, Mason, Beidj Seddon, Shephard, Shrimski (teller), Stewart, Tainui, Tawhai, Thomson, Tole (teller), and Wallis. ‘ The Speaker '■then left the chair, and the 1 House went into Committee of Supply. The Hon. Mr. BRYCE said there were a good many things in the Native Department with which he was not satisfied, and if he remained in the service he intended to attempt to very'much economise this department. If he found he cbuld-not carry out the changes he would retire 1 from his position as Native Minister altogether. Item; £15,742 salaries and contingencies. Mr. MONTGOMERY asked if he was aware that there had been a good deal of sickness among Ithe Maoris, and if he was aware that typhoid was prevalent at Little River, where no less than fifteen of the natives had died.

The Hon. Mr, BRYCE replied that the Gorernment had done ell they could for oases of sickness among the-Maoris, but they would look specially into the caso.teferred to by the hon. member for Akaroa.

Mr. TAINUI said he had drawn the attention of the Government last session ts the prevailing sickness among the Maoris at Akaroa, and he now hoped they would have a doctor granted to them for that district. The natives of Kaiapoi and other places also wanted

Mr. GISBORNE hoped Mr. Bryce would be more successful than his predecessors in his proinises.of u term in the Native Department: Last year the general contingencies were put down-at £2000.; this year they were put do wg jit ,£6000,, He would therefore move that the vote be reduced by £4OOO. The Hoh-.Mr. BRYCE would inform the

House that more than £2OOO had gone already. As a matter of fact, the £2OOO last year had meant more than £BOOO. The vote was put down as follows General contingencies for purchase of food and clothing for indigent natives, also for rewards and presents to native chiefs, and for the encouragement of agricultural pursuits, &c., £6OOO. He had promised to reform the department, and if he did not, as he said before, he would resign his position. Considerable discussion followed, which was interrupted by the hour of adjournment. On the House resuming, consideration of the Estimates was proceeded with, and the item £ls 742 was passed. Item, £12,129; Native Rands Court. Mr. H v,Vi LIN proposed that the item Chief Judge and Deputy District Judge, £IOOO, be reduced by £2OO. Mr. READER WOOD did not consider Auckland required five Judges; it could very well do with four. The positions were sinecures. He hoped the Hon, the Native Minister would accept tho motion fur reduction in order to show that he was sincere in his professions of economy. The motion was agreed to on the voices. Mr. GEORGE moved that the vote, £3OOO

for Judges, be further reduced by £BOO.

Mr. PYKE thoujht it was useless to embarrass the Native Minister by making particular reductions, which he was beat able to do. No more honorable gentleman could have charge of the Native Department than Mr. Bryce, and it would be far better to leave him to it without interference.

Mr. HaMEIN said if the Hon. the Native Minister would give them a hint where the other £BOO could be saved in the department

they would follow him, but if not he should move the reduction himself on the total item. Mr. GEORGE moved that the sum of £3OOO (for native Judges) be reduced by £SOO. The motion was agreed to, and the total

item, less the reductions, was passed. Item, £4BB (Native Rands Frauds Prevention Act, 1870) was passed without discussion. Item, £13,360, miscellaneous services. Mr. READER WOOD called attention to the item £SOO for printing judgments of the Native Rands Court, and moved that the sum bo reduced by £250. The motion was agreed to.

Item, £2OOO, for expenses Royal Commission Middle Island. Mr. READER WOOD moved that the item be reduced by £50(1. In the remarks which followed it was stated that at this Commission and others of the kind the Government was not represented by counsel, while the claimants were. ?

The Hon. E. RICHARDSON said if this were so the sooner the Government employed counsel in such oases the better. Mr. TAfNOT hoped the amount would not be reduced. . After some discussion the item was carried, and the general vote passed. . MINISTER OP LANDS AND MINES. Item, £16,579 ; for the Crown Lands Department. Mr. MONTGOMERY thought the item for the Crown Lands Office was very heavy. The Hon. Mr. ROLLESTON explained the necessity that existed for the expenditure. After some discussion the item was agreed to. Item, £14,664 ; Crown lands miscellaneous services. Carried, after discussion. Item, £413 ; coalfields. Passed without discussion. Item £BB,OOO, General Survey Department. Mr. TURNBULL moved that the item £38,000, for equipment and wages, be reduced by £SOOO, but subsequently withdrew it. Mr. SHRIMSKI moved that the bonus £3OO to the Chief Surveyor, Christchurch, be struck out. 'The item was struck out on a division, the numbers being 23—22. Item, £2110; Photographic and Lithographic Printing Branch. Agreed to. Item £27,010 for mines. Mr. TURNBULL suggested that the item £15.000 (£SOOO for gold discoveries in each island, and £SOOO in aid of prospectors) be struck out. After some discussion the item was allowed to stand, COLONIAL TREASURER. Item, Treasury; £6s32.—Passed. Item, £5985 ; laud tax.—Passed. Item, £7123 ; miscellaneous service.— Passed. COMMISSIONER OF CUSTOMS’ DEPARTMENT. Item, £34 235 ; Customs. Some objection was made to the proposed increase in some of the salaries, but Major Atkinson explaned that this was in consequence of the system of overtime being done away with. The item £6OO, for the Collector of'Customs, Auckland, was reduced by £SO. The item was then passed. Item, £lO,lOl, for miscellaneous services. Some discussion took place on the item £BOOO to provide for a bonus to be given to the exporters of rabbit skins. It was proposed to reduce the amount by £4OOO, but the motion was lost on the voices, and the general item passed. Item £33,326; marine and harbors. Mr. TURNBULL moved that the item £SOOO, for the s.s. Hinemoa, including repairs, be struck out.

After some discussion the item was passed, and the entire item agreed to. Item, £4751; Stamps Department.— Agreed to. Item, £14,595 ; lands and deeds registry.— Agreed to. Item, £458 ; miscellaneous.—Agreed to. The vote was then passed as a whole. (Minister of Defence, £149,580. The Hon. Mr. BRYOB said the Government would not be able to accept the service of additional Volunteers unless they consented to serve without capitation allowance. Mr. HXSLOP thought that the time had come when the volunteers of the South Island, which was a- purely ornamental force, should be done away with. To teat the question, he would move that the item £IOO for the officer commanding at Nelson be struck out.

The Hon. the Defence Minister said the Government would be very glad of the services of the volunteers, but they could not afford to pay any additional capitation allowance.

Considerable discussion ensued, and ultimately the capitation grant for the North Island (proposed to be reduced by £700) was agreed to. Capfain KENNY spoke in high terms of the efficiency of the New Zealand Volunteers, and deprecated the action of the House and the Government in for one moment trying to injure the cause by cutting down these votes.

The motion to strike out the £IOO for the commanding officer at Nelson was lost.

The motion to reduce the capitation allowance of the South Island by £BOO was also negatived on the voices. The Defence Minister called for a division, which resulted as follows: —Ayes, 33 ; noes, 22. The item was accordingly reduced, and the vote with the reductions made agreed to. Constabulary and Contingent Defence, £108,048. The Defence Minister said he would reduce the vote with the permission of the House by £4OOO.

MISCELLANEOUS SERVICES —£I97S. The vote was passed without reduction, COLONIAL SECRETARY DEPARTMENT.

Items.—Premier’s office, £337 ; Colonial Secretary, . £1651 ; messengers and office keepers,’ £2896 ; Legislative, £62,189 ; Electoral, £4435; Audit, £6548 ; Government Statist, £6695; Geological and Meteorological, £2678 ; New Zealand Institute, £SOO ; AgentGeneral, £3OOO ; Charitable, £18,750 ; Lunatic Asylums, £26,822 ; printing and stationery, £24,568 ; miscellaneous services, £34,801. Mr. TURNBULL proposed to reduce the item £21,575 (expenses of members of both Houses), by £2157. - The House divided, and the motion was agreed to by 27 to 22. Mr. HURSTHOUSE moved that the same item be further reduced by £3493, which he said would make the honorarium of members £l5O.

Mr. FINN moved that the vote be reduced by £II,OOO.

Mr. WAKEFIELD said he should vote with Mr. Finn, and if the motion was carried, he should afterwards move that the vote for honoraria should bo struck out altogether. Mr. HISLOP would like to know if it was proposed by Ministers to reduce their own salaries in the same rations the allowances of members were reduced. The CHAIRMAN moved that Mr. Hislop was out of order. Mr. HISLOP would then move that progress be reported. Discussion ensued, and at a quarter to two seemed likely to last for a considerable time. (Left sitting.)