PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIV, Issue 5817, 20 November 1879, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, November ID. Tbo Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. GENERAL. Several petitions were presented, notices of motion given, and reports laid upon the table. Among the notices of motion was one by.the Hon. Mr. Chamberlin, —That in the opinion of the Council all fencing laws in New Zealand should be abolished.—The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse notified that next day he would move, — That in the opinion of this Council, in face of the large increase of direct taxation which is likely shortly to occur, it is important that other means of appeal against excessive valuations of property than those at present existing should be provided. SIR J. VOGEL AND THE LAND COMPANY. Sir F. D. BULL asked the AttorneyGeneral, Whether the Government have seen Sir J. Vogel’s letter in The Timts, of the 26th September, respecting his position as a director of the New Zealand Agricultural Company ; and whether there is any objection to inform Parliament of the circumstances which may have justified Sir Julius Vogel in publicly declaring that he had the authority of three Ministers for assisting in organising that company ? The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER : I am m possession of no further information that what has publicly occurred. A telegram was sent from here to Sir Julius Vogel to ask who the three Ministers were, I will ascertain the answer received to that. The telegram and anwer will probably be laid on the table of the Lower House. REVENUE AND EXPENDITURE. The Hon. Mr. Reynolds had given notice to move for a return showing in detail the amount of revenue raised in each district of the colony during 1878-9, and the amount expended both from revenue and loan in every district, but the Hon. Mr. Whitaker explaining that a return would shortly be presented giving all the information wanted, the motion was withdrawn. OTAGO UNIVERSITY. The Hon. Mr. REYNOLDS moved,—That the report of the Joint Committee on Private Bills on the Otago University Ordinance Amendment Bill be disagreed to.—On this motion there was a long general discussion on the question of the Otago University, after which the motion was negatived. SIR F. BELL AND COMMITTEE WORK. The Hon. Mr. ACLAND, as Chairman of one of the Local Bills Committees (A), moved that the interim report stating that Sir Francis Bell had absented himself from the Committee, be considered. The Hon. GEO. BUCKLEY moved,—That Sir Francis Dillon Bell bo ordered to attend the committee on Friday next. Sir F. BELL said he had asked that his name' might not be put on the committee, and as it was put there, he could not say that he could now serve ; in fact, he felt himself incompetent for the work. It would he a groat indignity to pass a resolution compelling him to attend. He would probably resign rather than be forced in the way proposed. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE hoped the motion would he withdrawn. No one worked harder on committees than Sir Dillon Bell. The Hon. Mr. BUCKLEY asked leave to withdraw the motion, and after some further discussion tho matter dropped. railway tariff. There was a farther debate upon the question, —That it is desirable that this Council should be informed whether the Government will take into {consideration the present tariff of charges on the railways, with the view of increasing the rates, so as to make the working of the several lines realise a fair profit, or at least contribute their full share of receipts in aid of tho revenues of the colony.—The motion was carried, the words ** with a view of increasing the rates” being struck out. SECOND AND THIRD BEADING. Tho following Bills were read a second time: —The Fine Arts Copyright Act 1877 Amendment Bill, the Oamaru Ilarbor Board Bill, the New River Pilot Station Reserve Bill, the Hawke’s Bay and Marlborough Rivers Act 1868 Amendment Bill, the Waiuku Recreation Reserve Bill. The Triennial Bill and the Building Societies Act Amendment Bill (having been passed through committee) were read a third time and passed. The Council rose at 5 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, November 19. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. GENERAL. Several petitions were presented, notices of motion given, and reports and returns laid upon the table. QUESTIONS. Mr. PYKE asked the Minister of Public Works,—(l) Whether the Pullman cars recently, imported from America are fitted with cast-iron seats and kerosene lamps ; (2) whether the Minister is of opinion that castiron seats and kerosene lamps would add to the bodily comfort and safety of passengers in the event of a collision or other accident involving a general smash ; (3) whether he will lay before this House a copy of the specifications of the Pullman carriages and sections of the tunnels ns sent to the New York agent, together with a statement from the Enginper-in-Charge of the Middle Island of the height of each tunnel on the Christchurch Invercargill railway, also the height of the carriages as imported ? The mover said he had been told, and he believed it was correct, that the blame in the matter of the size of the cars was not that of the New York agent at all, but the blame of one of the officials in New Zealand. The Hon. Mr. OLIVER said he would answer the first question in the affirmative. With regard to the second, he did not know whether it was a matter of great importance to his hon. friend what his own individual opinion might bo on the subject. With regard to the third question, he would be most happy to lay the copy of the specifications required on the table.

Mr. GIBBS asked the Government,— Whether they will cause an exploration to be made of the country lying between Collingwood and the Karamea, by way of the Heaphy Valley, with a view of-ascertaining the possibility of opening up an available road through that country, and also opening up of the lauds along the route of settlement ? The Hon. Mr. ROLLESTON said he should he very glad to inquire into the matter. There was certain information on the subject already but not sufficient to enable him to give a full reply. Mr. TOLE asked the Minister of Justice,— If the Government will make provision on the Estimates for the equalisation of the salaries of gaol officials throughout the colony ? Tho Hon, Mr. ROLLESTON replied that the'Government were quite sensible of. the inequalities existing among gaolers’ salaries. In the Estimates about to be circulated, the hon. gentleman would see that a sum had been placed-on tbs Estimates so that the Government could deal with the question. Up to the present.the Government had- not had time to deal with the question. Mr. GISBORNE asked the Native Minister, —Whether the Government will, daring the {present session, bring in a Bill to amend the existing native land purchase system ? The Hon. Mr. BRYCE replied that the Government were doubtful whether such a Pill could be introduced this session, or whether the Assembly would have time to deal with it even if it were .brought down. Mr. GISBORNE asked the Colonial Treasurer,—To what specific American Act he referred when, in his Financial Statement, he asked the, House to impose a property tax upon the American model ?

The Hon. Major. ATKINSON replied, to the New York Statute of 1859. Mr. TAINUr asked the Native Minister,— If the Government will bring in a Bill empowering the .issue of Crown grants for the Grey mouth native reserves, and other reserves on the West Coast of the Middle Island, in accordance with the adjustments made by Mr, Commissioner Young ; if not, if ho will state his reasons for withholding the said Crown grants. The Hon, Mr. .BRYCE said he had been advised by the law officer that no such Bill was necessary, as the powers existed under the present law. With regard to the second part of the question, he might state that Mr. Commissioner Young had not succeeded in making subdivisions on the reserves. It would therefort be impossible to issue Crown grants on account of the individuals indicated. The use of the grants under the circumstances would serve no good purpose. Mr. KELLY asked the Native Minister,— Whether"the Government [will lay a return ■and map before .this goose showing the blocks of native land purc hased from the natives in the North Island --luce 1370,; indicating' their position, acreage, and cost i also a return and map showing the blocks of native land , for which- negotiations have been* entered into,showing position, acreage, price per acre agreed on, ultimata liability, and amount paid on each Hock reepectiveiy ?

The Hon. Mr. BRYCE replied that a return of the kind had been upon the table for some considerable time past, giving most of the information asked for by the hon, ge tieman. The ultimate liability, however, would not be found there. He understood that the report of the committee would within the next three days bo put into circulation, and would give the amount of liabilities in detail. He had directed a map to be prepared, and it would be laid upon the table, Mr. SHANKS asked the Government.— What steps they intend to take with a view to supplying the Volunteer Artillery batteries with a proper complement of field guns, and whether a sura will be placed upon the Estimates this session for procuring the necessary guns ; also, if the Government propose any increase in the capitation at present paid to artillery corps ; and, if so, to what extent ? The Hon, JOHN HALL replied that the Government bad the subject under their consideration, and hoped during the present year to supply the batteries with guns to a considerable extent. With regard to the capitation grant, however, although the Government recognised the advisability of increasing it, in the present state of the finances of the country they could not recommend the House to do so. NEW BILL. Mr. BALLANGB introduced a Bill to amend the Taranaki Iron Smelting Works Act 1874, and it was read a first time. THE NEW TARIFF. Mr. GEORGE moved, —For a return, in tabulated form, showing the value of and duty paid to the Customs on spirits, tea, sugar, and tobacco, which have been cleared from the various bonds in the colony, for the respective weeks ending 27th September, 4th October, 11th October, 18th October, 25th October, Ist November, Bth November, and 15th November ; and also the value of and duty paid on the above-named articles for the corresponding period of the year 1878 ? Mr. George said he had heard that caucuses of the Government party had been held, and their intentions had leaked out with regard to the financial changes, and the result was that large quantities of the articles in question had been taken out of bond within the last two or three weeks. The Hon. JOHN HALL said that if anything of this kind had leaked out it was the fault of certain members of the Opposition themselves. Mr. MONTGOMERY did not think the Premier should have made such a charge against the members of the Opposition. The words “ galvanised iron” were added to the resolution, and it was then agreed to. PETITIONS FROM NATIVES. Mr. TOLE moved, —That the time has arrived when it is no longer desirable that petitions from persons of the native race should be exempt from conforming with the same rules and orders of the House as are required in relation to all other petitions. Many of the petitions presented maligned the members of the House, and if they had been from Europeans they would have been at once rejected. He thought the time had now come when the distinction in this respect should be abolished. It would, too, have the effect of placing the two races on an equality. He hoped the resolution would be carried. Major TE WHEORO seconded the resolution, saying he quite agreed with the last speaker—that there should only be one rule for both races, who ought to bs dealt with in the same way. The SPEAKER said the standing orders could not he altered without the consent of twn-thirds of the members of the House (59), and there were not that number present. Mr. TOLE would then move that the resolution be forwarded to the Standing Orders Committee. The Hon. Mr. BRYCE sympathised with much that had fallen from the hon. member for Eden, but he thought the time bad perhaps hardly come to carry it out in its entirety. If a cast-iron rule was laid down, at least three-fourths of the Maori petitions would be rejected ; but he thought that the whole matter might be referred to the Standing Orders Committee. Mr. MAC ANDREW moved that the Standing Orders Committee report on_the matter to the House. After a few words from Mr. Moss, The motion was agreed to. GOLD-FIELDS COMMITTEE. Mr. J. B. FISHER moved,—That this House will to-morrow resolve itself into committee of the whole to consider a resolution, “ That this House doth concur in the report of the Gold-fields Committee upon the petition of Richard Reeves and others, of Charleston and Westport, Nelson South-West Gold-fields; and recommends the Government to make provision accordingly.” The motion was agreed to without discussion. GRAHAMSTOWN AND TE ABOHA. Mr. MURRAY moved that the Law Officers of the Government be instructed to j rep ire and submit a case to the Judges, to decide as to the legality or otherwise of certain expenditure by the Government upon railway and reclamation works at Grahamstown, and between Grahamstown and Te Aroha. After some discussion the motion was withdrawn. VOTE FOR AUCKLAND. Mr. WHITAKER moved, —That this House will to-morrow resolve itself into a committee of the whole to consider of a respectful address to be presented to his Excellency the Governor, praying that he will cause the sum of £200,000 to be placed upon the Estimates as a grant to tho Provincial District of Auckland for the formation of roads and bridges. The motion was seconded by Mr. George. After some discussion it was proposed that the debate be adjourned for a fortnight. A division was taken, resulting as follows ' Aye?, 33 ; noes, 20. Mr. SBDDON moved that the debate be adjourned for three months, bub ultimately withdrew it, and the debate was adjourned for a fortnight. INTERRUPTED DEBATE. Interrupted debate on the question,—That there be laid before the House a return of all persons who have been employed since Ist January, 1879, on matters connected with the purchase of native lands, or any other native matters, whose salaries have not been voted by this House ; showing the amount of salary or allowances paid to each officer since that date, the amounts now due to each, and whether the payments have been made out of loan or general revenue. _ .. The motion was now agreed to without discussion.

CORRESPONDENCE, ETC., WANTED. Mr. BUTTON moved,—'That: there be laid before this House (1) a copy of a voucher for £4OO or thereabouts, paid to Mr. W. L. Rees in July or August last, on account of legal advice on some matters on the West Coast ; (2) a copy of any correspondence that may have taken place between Mr. Rees and the Government in reference thereto, and any legal opinion supplied to the Government.” Mr. TOLE moved the “ previous question.”

Considerable discussion took place, in the course of which it was stated that there was no voucher for the payment of the sum of money mentioned, although the sum of -£3OO had been paid to Mr. Kees. Mr. SHEEHAN said the late Government had paid the money for the purpose of having the natives defended. That money had been paid to a respectable firm in this city. Nothing could have been fairer thau that. As a question of policy the House might have their own opinion, but he maintained it would only be a fair and proper thing that the Maoris having been apprehended in large numbers should have the benefit of legal advice. In the course of some remarks of the Premier, he reminded the House that Mr. Kees was a member of the House when he received that money. With regard to providing the Maori prisoners with legal advice he considered the late Government were quite justified in doing that—(hear, hear) —although the Maoris themselves' repudiated it. Mr.,GISBORNE said the natives themselves had chosen their own counsel, and Mr. Rees had taken legal advice on the subject before consenting to act for them. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the natives had never been consulted, and knew nothing at all about the matter. Indeed, when they knew of it, they repudiated the whole affair. If. was his opinion that the more public these things were made the better. The hon. gentleman then proceeded to read a letter from Dr. Bnller to the present Native Minister, on the subject of the native prisoners, from which it appeared that the -natives would have nothing to do with counsel unless it was arranged for by themselves. A committee was formed to look after- the Maoris* defence, and they absolutely refused to receive any assistance whatever from the Government, and yet £3OO had been over to Mr. Seivwright by Sir George Grey out of the public funds, and half of this had been paid to Mr. Rees as a retainer.' There was no doubt it was a matter thatiwonld have to be looked into. Mr. MACANDRBW said it seemed to him that the mistake was that somebody elso had been employed other than Dr. Bullof.

On being put, the previous question was carried and the original motion lost, THE MARQUIS OF NORMANBY. Mr. MoLEA.V moved, —That a respectful address be presented to his Excellency the Governor, praying that he will cause to be laid before this House all correspondence between the Marquis of Normanfcy and the Premier relative to the refusal to grant the use of the Hineraoa to convey his Excellency and family to Melbourne; together with copies of all enclosures therein.—The motion was agreed to without discussion. RETURN OP LAND. Captain RUSSELL for Mr. Ormond moved, —For a return of all lands disposed of on deferred payments in each provincial district since the passing of the Land Act, 1877. Such return to specify the acreage of each selection, the price paid, and where situate ; also what expenditure hag been incurred, if any, in opening such lands for occupation. The motion was agreed to without discussion. LICENSED VICTUALLERS OP AUCKLAND. Mr. TOLE moved.—That the petition of the licensed victuallers of the city and suburbs of Auckland be printed. The motion was lost on the voices, RETURN OF POPULATION. Mr. MURRAY moved,—That as soon as conveniently possible, a return should be laid upon the table, showing the number of the population (distinguishing Europeans from Maoris) and electors, the area of land, and the gross and net valuations of property m-.de under the Land Tax Act, 1878, in each electoral division of the colony. The motion was lost on the voices. THE AUCKLAND DEFENCE FORCE. Mr. HAMLIN moved, —That a select committee be appointed to inquire into the claims of the members of the late Auckland Defence Force, and report to this House within three weeks, with power to call for persons and papers ; five to be a quorum. Such committee to consist of Messrs. Sheehan, Atkinson, Moorhouse, Swanson, Harris, Whyte, Colbeck, Pitt, McDonald, and the mover. The motion was agreed to. THE LATE ELECTIONS. Mr. SAUNDERS moved,—For a select committee to inquire into and report upon the use alleged to have been made by the Government of Government steamers and railways, and of the electric telegraph, for the purpose of influencing the late elections. The committee to consist of Messrs. B’isher, Wright, Trimble, Rolleston, Turnbull, Wallis, and the mover. Three to be a quorum ; with power to call for persons and papers. Te report in fourteen days. Mr. SEDDON said Mr, Saunders had mistaken his vocation—he should have been in Italy leading the brigands. He was sure the Government did not want to bring these matters up again. He would move the previous question, and he trusted the House would carry it without delay. Seconded by Mr. Wakefield, and carried. FREE PASSES. Mr. MURRAY moved, —That a committee be appointed to inquire into the granting of free passes on the Government railways, and to report whether, in their opinion, there should be any alteration, or whether free passes should be abolished, and in lieu thereof time or other special tickets should be instituted. The motion was agreed to. “ HANSARD.'’ Mr. ADAMS moved,—That, in the opinion of this House, the Government should cause the various City, Borough, and Oovmty Councils throughout the colony to be supplied, free of charge, with a copy of Hansard, of the Government Oazttfe, of the Bills introduced into the House, of the Statutes as passed, and of all Parliamentary papers printed and laid upon the table of the House, so that information as to the pu olio affairs of this colony may be more readily obtained by the members of those Councils and the people of the colony generally. The Hon. Hr. HALL deprecated the motion on the score of the expense it would entail on the country. Ultimately the motion was withdrawn. THE WEST COAST. Mr. TAINUI moved, —That the report of Mr. Commissioner Young on native reserves on the West Coast of the Middle Island, together with all correspondence and minutes relating to the same, be laid before this House and printed. The motion was agreed to. RAILWAY BETWEEN HOKITIKA AND GREYMOUTH. Mr. REID moved,—That a select committee, consisting of Messrs. Macandrew, Gis* borne, Ormond, Masters, McLean, George, Seddon, Wood, Bunny, and the mover (three to form a quorum), be appointed, to inquire and report to this House upon the expediency of diverting the proposed line of railway between Hokitika and Greymouth, in order that it may pass through or be connected with Kumara, Goldsborougb, and Stafford Town. The committee to have power to call for papers and persons, and to report in a fortnight. The motion was agreed to. OTAGO HARBOR BOARD. Mr. STEWART moved, —That the petition of the Otago Harbor Board, presented on the Bth August last, be referred to a select committee of ten members, consisting of Messrs. Montgomery, Dick, Brown, Oliver, Ballance, Ormond, Driver, H. Hirst, McOaughan, and the mover ; five to bs a quorum. To report within three weeks. Agreed to. The House adjourned at half-past five. PAYMENT OF MEMBERS BILL. This Bill was introduced by Major Atkinson, read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday. ORDER OP BUSINESS. Mr. MACANDREW suggested that the unopposed Bills might be taken at once ; there were about twenty on the Order Paper. The Hon. JOHN HALL said the Government would be very glad to do so, but the difficulty was to tell which Bills were unopposed until they came forward. Mr. MACANDREW moved that unopposed Bills should be taken after the adjournment at half-past ten. ORDERS OP THE DAT, Mr, SEYMOUR moved the second reading of the Marlborough Rivers District Union Bill. —Agreed to. : ■ Mr. MACANDREW moved the second reading of the Otago University Reserves Leasing Bill.—Agreed to. NEW COUNTY OF TIMARU. The adjourned debate on Mr. Wakefield’s motion was resumed by that hon. gentleman, who stated that he had only brought the motion forward in the interest of the district. He would accept the amendment proposed by the hon. the Premier on the day when the question was brought forward, which was to the effect that the motion would not be brought into force until the next sitting of Parliament. The motion as amended was then put, and was declared to' be lost on the voices. A division was taken, which resulted as follows: Aves, II ; noes, 25. ’Ayes (44). —Messrs. Adams, Atkinson, Bain, Beetham, Bowen, Brandon, Bryce, Colbeck, Dick, Finn, J.B. Fisher, Fulton, Gibbs, Gisborne, Hall, H. Hirst, W. J. Hurst, Johnston, Kelly, Kenny, Levin, Masters, McDonald, McLean, Murray, Oliver, Pitt, Pyke, Rolleston, Russell, Saunders, Seymour, Shanks Shephard, Stevens, Studholme (teller), Sutton, Thomson, Tomoana, Trimble, Wakefield (teller), Whitaker, Whyte, and Wright. Noes (25). —Messrs. Allwright, Andrews, Barron, Brown, De Lautour, J’. T. Fisher, George, Grey, Hamlin, Harris, Hislop (teller), Hutchison, Ireland, London, Macandrew, Montgomery, Reeves, Shrimski, Speight, Stewart, Tainui, Tawhai, Tele, Turnbull (teller), and Wallis. The House went into committee to consider the Rating Act, 1876, Amendment Bill (No. 2). The Bill was considered clause by clause and then reported without amendment, and ordered to be read a third time on Wednesday next. Mr. TOMOANA drew the attention of the Government to the epidemic which, was raging at Turanganui and Poverty Bay—it was raging in his district—and said he hoped the Government would do something to abate it. The Hon. Mr. BRYCE said he would cause inquiries to be made on the subject The House went into committee to further consider the Auckland Improvement Commissioners Transfer of Powers Bill.

Mr. TOLE moved that progress be reported. _ . Considerable discussion ensued, and ultimately the motion was agreed to. The House went into committee to further consider the Licensing Further Amendment Bill No. 2 (introduced by Mr. Acton Adams). The Hon. Mr. HALE said the Government did not this session see its way to adjust the licensing fees throughout the colony but they would endeavor to do so during the recess. Although they would not oppose the Bill, they could not support it. After some discussion progress was reported, and leave given to sit again in a fortnight. Mr. BRANDON moved the second reading of the High Schools Endowments Investment Bill. ' ■

The Hon. Mr. EOLLESTON thought this

question of endowments would have to be dealt with in a much more complete manner than it was dealt with by the present Bill. As it now stood it was a must unsatisfactory measure. He should not oppose the second r ading, but he should require very consid rable alterations in committee. Mr. HISLOP moved that the Bill be read that day six months. Seconded by Mr. Andrews. After several members had spoken, The motion for adjournment was negatived, as was also that of Mr. Hislop, and the Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed in a week.

The then went into committee on the District Courts Act Amendment Bill.

After some slight discussion, the Bill waa reported to the House, with amendments, but on the motion of Mr. Rolleston it waa at once recommitted, but immediately afterwards reported with further slight amend* ments.

The Bill waa then read a third time and passed. The House went into committee to consider tho Miners’ Right Fees Reduction Bill, Considerable discussion took place on the Bill, and a general opinion seemed to be expressed that if a reduction took place it should take place all over the colony, and that the natives at the Thames should not suffer any loss, but that the Government should make up the difference. Mr. GISBORNE moved that the words " ten shillings ” be struck out, with a view to the words u five shillings ” being substituted. The original motion was carried on the voices. A division was called for, and resulted as follows Aye*, 40 ; noes, 13. The Hon. JOHN HALL moved a fresh clause to the effect that the foregoing should not apply to any goldfield in the North Island. Mr. SHEEHAN said the BUI as it now stood would not affect the Thames, even as it stood, without any additional clauses. Mr. PYKE, the promoter of the BUI, agreed that the BUI would not affect the native lands. The amendment of the lion, tho Premier was withdrawn, and the Bill reported to the House without amendments.

The Bill waa then read a third time and passed. Mr. WAKEFIELD moved the second reading of the Land Claims Arbitration Bill. Major ATKINSON said on behalf of the Government he was unable to give the Bill his support. Ultimately the second reading was postponed for a week.

The Hon, JOHN HALL moved the second reading of the Kumara Educational Reserves Bill,—Agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be committed to-day. The Hon. JOHN HALL moved the second reading of the Hokitika Harbor Board Endowment Act Amendment Bill.—Agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be committed to-day. The Patents Act Amendment Bill was also read a second time on the motion of the Hon, the Premier, and ordered to be committed today. The District Law Societies Act Amendment Bill was also read a second time and ordered to be committed to-day. The District Courts Proceedings Validation Bill was read a second time.

The Speaker left the chair, and the House went into committee on the Hamilton Volunteer Hall Site Act Amendment Bill. The BUI was reported with an amendment in the title. The House then went into committee to consider tbie Mines Act, 1877, Amendment Bill, which was subsequently reported with amendments, after which the House adjourned. __