PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIV, Issue 5798, 29 October 1879, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, October 2S. The Hon, the Speaker took the chair at half-past two o'clock. PAPERS, NOTICE.-', ETC. A number of committee reports and papers were laid on the table. The Hon. Sir F. BFLL pointed out that a number of papers, Ac., were often laid on the tabic of the Lower House without copies being laid before them (hou. Councillors). It was extremely desirable that all important documents submitted to one branch of the Legislature should simultaneously be laid on the table of the other. The Hou. Mr. WHITAKER promised that in future papers should be presented to both Houses at the same time. RTTIu- lion, Mr. G. BUCKLEY gave notice to move, —That it is desirable the export statistics of the colony be made more complete. (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Sir F. BELL notified that ho would bring forward a motion relative to the Agent-General contesting a seat in the House of Commons. The Hou. Mr. WHITAKER gave notice to introduce next day a Bill to amend the Prisons Act, 1573, explaining that he would, if possible, get it through all stages at one sitting, as it was to rectify an alleged illegality as to the place of detention of the Maori prisoners. MIDDLE ISLAND NATIVES. On the motion of the Hou. Mr, Taiaroa, it was ordered, —That there be laid upon the table a copy of Mr. Alexander Mackay'a report on the issue of Crown grants of land in the Middle Island to certain half-caste natives of the Ngaitahu tribe ; together with the names of the persons to whom he awarded the lands, and the date, acreage, and position e£ the land, accompanied by a plan or tracing of the same. PRIVILEGE. The Hon. Mr. IMAM TELL moved that the report of the Standing Orders Committee, relative to the breach of the Council’s privileges by the prosecutors in the Kinross case, be concurred in.—The report recommended that as the Maoris aud their legal advisers had probably acted in ignorance, no further notice be taken of the matter. The Hon. Captain FRASER thought the legal advisers had not acted in ignorance. He considered Mr. W. L. Rees should be summoned to the bar of the Council. The Hon. Colonel BRETT thought this course would do no good, and would only make them look ridiculous. (Hear, hear.) Several hou. members having spoken, the matter was postponed to Thursday, the Hon. Mr. Whitaker promising to consider the question in the meantime. NATIVE EXPENDITURE COMMITTEE. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE moved that his name be removed from the Native Expenditure Committee. Mauy hon. Councillors advised the withdrawal of the motion, explaining that some remarks wh'ch had been made, and which caused the mover to wish to leave the committee, had been misapprehended. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE declined to withdraw Ilia motion, and on being put it was negatived. ADJOURNMENT. The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER moved the postponement of all other business on the paper to Thursday. This was carried, and the Council rose at 3.30 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, October 23. The Speaker took the chair at half-past '2 o'clock. GENERAL. Several petitions were presented, notices of motion given, and papers laid upou the table. THE CITI OP CHRISTCHURCH ELECTION. Mr. FULTON brought up the report of the committee appointed to consider the petition against the return of Sir George Grey aa a member of the House of Representatives for the City of Christchurch. This report disqualified Sir George, and directed that Mr. E. Richardson should sit in his stead as a member for that City.

Mr. TOIjB moved that the report and evidence lie on the table until next sitting day, in order to give members an opportunity of seeing whether its decision was arrived at according to law.

The .SPEAKER ruled that such a motion was not in order. According to the law, the decision of the committee must be final.

Mr. TOLE contended that the report should not be binding on the House. The proceedings of the committee might be entirely against the law, and he had every reason to believe there had been a violation of the law in this case. One of the members of the committee had not voted at the same time as the others, but had been allowed time to deliberate. (Mr. Tole proceeded to quote authorities on the subject.) Under those circumstances, the Tote was available to two sorts of influences. If this sort of thing was allowed, it would be a very serious thing for the House, the country, and the representation of the people. Mr. HIS GOP supported the opinions advanced by Mr. Tole, and submits 1 that th - committee were not justified in having brought in the decision they did.

The SPEAKER ruled that the report was perfectly in order, as the committee had power to regulate their own proceedings, Mr. TOLE again adressed the House, when,

Mr. FULTON explained that the remarks made by Mr Tole were not in accordance with fact.

Mr. MOORHOU3E also explained what had been done by the committee, and agreed with Mr. Fulton that the statements made by Mr. Tole were not in accordance with fact.

By desire of the House the minutes of the meetings, rc the petition in question, were read.

The Hon. JOHN HALL said the action of the committee was perfectly legitimate, and that the House must accept its report. Ho trusted, therefore, there would be no further opposition to the law being given effect to. Mr. HISLOP pointed out that the action of the committee had been in several respects irregular, and proceeded to explain to the House why he considered this was so. He moved as an amendment that the Hons# should not recognise the report. The SPEAKER ruled that the House had no power to do anything of the kind. Sir GEORGE GREY addressed the House, and said he had been elected under a law existing at that time. He had been elected by over 1300 persons, and if the report of the committee was adopted a great wrong would be committed upon that large number of people. Another thing against the petition was that it had not been presented to the House within fourteen days. It a petition were presented against Mr. Richardson on the grounds of bribery it could not be considered, a,s it was now impossible that it should be presented within the necessary time. A division was called for whether the report of the committee should be entered on the records of the House.

Sir George Grey retired, as the Speaker ruled that it was not competent for him to vote. No division, however, was taken, and the ayes were declared to have it. Mr. FULTON brought up a resolution carried by tbe same committee to the effect that the laws on the subject of which the petition treated were unsatisfactory, and required amendment.

By direction of the House the name of Sir George Grey was erased from the writ, and that of Edward Richardson substituted.

Sir GEOKGE GREY thought that the House had no power to do this. The SPEAKER ruled the hon. member for the Thames was out of order. He called upon Mr. Richardson now to come forward and be sworn in.

Mr. Richardson here entered the House. Sir GEORGE GREY moved the adjournment of the House. The SPEAKER ruled that the swearing m must take place.

Mr. Richardson was then sworn in Sir GEORGE GREY again rose to appeal to the House against the decision of the committee. , The SPEAKER ruled, however, that such decision must be final. ~ Mr. Richardson then took his seat amid loud applause from tbe Government side of tbe House.

tee accklanu members. The Hon. JOHN HALL laid upon the table a letter from the Lnder-Secretery stating that there had been no correspondence with the Auckland members. (Cheers and laughter.) He moved that that paper be laid upon the table.

Sir GEORGE GREY trusted the correspondence would bo laid upon the table. Mr. HAMLIN moved as an amendment,— That a committee be appointed to enquire into the whole question of this Auckland compact. The Government ought not to bo ashamed to lay any papers they bad upon the subject on the table. Ho deprecated the action of the Government in this matter, and spoke strongly against it. Air. WHITAKER wisned to know if sitch a motion could bo put without notice. ■The SPEAKER ruled that it could if the names of the committee were left out. The Hon. JOHN HALL contended that the motion could not be put without notice. More than that, if the motion were pressed he should move as on amendment that all correspondence and conversations on both sides, and of this and the' previous Governments should be included. He would ask the House not to commit the manifest absurdity of passing such a motion. The substance of the matter had been very fully stated by the hon. member for Waitemata, and practically the House was in possession of all that it required. Captain RUSSELL said it would be absurd to appoint any such committee as that asked for.

Mr. SWANSON said there was not a farthing asked to be given to Auckland before it was passed by that House. He had the communication referred to in his pocket, but it was marked c< confidential, M and neither a vote of the House or anything else would get it from him unless he chose to show it. He had, however, no objection to show it to members privately. Mr. MOSS thought the hon. member for Newton had been entrapped, and urged upon the House the necessity of having tho correspondence produced. The Mon. Mr. EOLLESTON said the question was whether the House should havedragged np communications between the Government and private members which were of an unofficial character. It would be a most Improper precedent to introduce. He hoped tiie House would not longer waste the time of the country in disputing over the question of this correspondence.

Mr. J. 0. BROWN thought the correspondence should be laid on the table.

Mr. HURST, for his own part, had never seen any correspondence or memorandum whatever.

Mr. BROWN »(;ain addressed tho House, and made ft statement, which was denied point blank bj the Hon. the Premier and the hon. tho member for Newton.

Mr. HURST regretted tho great waste of time that was taking place on this matter. Mr. SPEIGHT trusted the motion would be passed, and the correspondence produced. Mr. STEWART also thought the motion ought to be carried, and said he considered the compact that had been made wa* a fraud upon that House.

Mr. PYKE thought the correspondence should be produced, Mr. WHITAKER was of opinion that the communications in question ought not to be dragged on the floor of tbo House. Mr. 'POLE contended that a great public scandal had been committed, and the correspondence on the subject ought to be made public. He traced the v/holo of this thing as tho work of Mr. Whitaker, senior, who was now a member of the Government, and of the Upper House. Mr. SEDDON said if tho late Government had done what tho present Government had done they would still have been in oflioe. He hoped the Government would havo a table compiled showing what had been spent in each provincial district, so that the money might he divided pro raid, and they might each have a fair start.

Captain GOLBECK said the time had come when even the member for Marsden must speak. The matter had not been put fairly before the House. What had the members of the Auckland party done ' Why, they had deserted their leader, Sir George Grey, whom they were returned to support. And yet these men now turned round and abused them (the Auckland four) for having deserted their party. Party was no party, for it was broken off. He was proud to be a rat, as they had termed him, and the action taken by the present Opposition was neither fair nor Just. They had left the only man who could have led them. They had been told now by some of the Auckland members that they would vote against every measure for the good of Auckland. He again said that he had done nothing of which he need be ashamed, (Applause.) Mr. HARRIS said ho had never had confidence in Captain Colbeck, for he did not consider he was a man to stick to his party through thick and thin. As long as the Kaipara railway was dangled before his eyes, he would follow any Ministry as a horse would a bundle of carrots. But he bad been tbo* roughly deceived by Mr. Wood, and Auckland had been disgraced by him and the other three Auckland members. But he would say he was sorry for him, and that was the most contemptible thing he could say for him—and he should bo sorry for him when he returned to Auckland. He was not at all disappointed however, in the conduct of the bon. member for City West, for he had fully expected that be would leave his party before the end of the session. Wherever ho could get the most flattery and soft soap, there that gentleman would be, and they might lay it on as thick as they liked. (Laughter.) With regard to Mr. Swanson, he believed bo would still regret the atep bo had taken. In conclusion, ho might say that he should vote for the amendment. Mr. LUNDON would also support the amendment, and said he considered the desertion of their party by the four Auckland members as very dishonorable. The debate was interrupted by the hour for adjournment. On resuming in the evening, the orders of the day were called on, and tho motion for the adjournment of the debate in Committee of Supply was resumed. Mr. MACANDBEW said he desired to say a few words. The object of the no-confidence motion was reconstruction, and had that resolution been followed up in the usual course they would now have had a Government possessing a good working majority. The Hon. JOHN HALL wished to know whether Mr. Macandrew was addressing himself to tho no-confidenco motion. If not, he was clearly out of order. Mr. MACANDBEW repeated his former remark, and said the business of the country would have been advanced if that resolution had been carried into effect. Both sides of the House, and tho country too, agreed to adopt the measures brought forward by the previous Government, and the question was,, were those measures to be placed upon the Statute Book by the parents of whom they were born, or those by whom they were adopted. It had been said that they wanted to obtain place, but the love of power, he hoped, was not the mainspring of action on either side of the House. So far as he was concerned, his wish for place was but a secondary consideration with him. Probably there was no public man in New Zealand who would be less deterred by malice from doing a public duty tbau be was. Circumstances had taken place, however, which had led to a great change, and therefore he should withdraw his motion so that they (might proceed with the business of the country. It had been said that overtures had been made by him to join the present Ministry. Ha wished to deny that in toto. He wished to abstain from any expression that might be offensive, and with the leave of the House he would now like the noconfidence motion to be discharged—at all events, so far as he was concerned, he should allow it to lapse. The SPEAKER ruled that no present action could be taken in the matter. The Hon. JOHN HALL said after the supply had been granted the Government would bo very glad to bring forward the motion in question, with a view to its being discharged. He was glad to hear that the business of the country was now to be proceeded with ; at the same time the Government wished to express their conviction that they were not to blame for the delay that had taken place. All that they had done was to express their determination to place their measures before the House. He hoped that both sides would do their best to improve the measures as they came before the House. The Speaker then left the chair, and the House went into Committee of Supply, and passed the resolution for the supply of £200,000 without discussion. the NO-CONITDENCE MOTION. On the motion of the Hon. John Hall the business, prior to No. 29 (the no-confidence motion), was postponed. . Mr. MACANDBEW not rising to propose his motion, it lapsed, THE LAND ACT 1877 AMENDMENT BILL. rnt e Hon. Mr. KOLLESTON moved tho dim- of this Bill, which he stated second re*. - late Government. Mr. RoUeston^xplain.'' l at some-kngth the provisions of the Bill toped m the course oTa few days to havd tfe proposals more fully matured than they were at present. The Government recognised most strongly the great advantages of settling the P eo P le U P°“ the land.

Mr. MAC ANDREW supported the Bill though he considered that this Bill and the Special Settlements Bill ought to be kept distinct, and he hoped the Government would reconsider its decision on the subject. Both sides of the House ought to feel ashamed of themselves for having spent so many millions on public works and so little on the settlement of the people on the land. Mr. HGRSTHOGSE strongly impressed upon the House the advisability of giving increased facilities to place the poor man upon the laud, and in the course of his remarks said it appeared to him that a great deal of bunkum had been talked about the land laws of the colon v.

Mr. FINN would like to have the Bill postponed for a few days, in order tiiat he might communicate with some people on the goldfields in the meantime.

Mr. GIBBS also asked the Government to delay the Bill. Mr. BYKE objected to certain provisions of the Bill, and said they applied to land that was not worth some of it, five shillings an acre instead of thirty. He objected altogether to there being such an upset price. Mr Fyke proceeded to go through the Bill section by section, and to comment upon them at length. The entire Bill ought to be recast before it was committed. Speaking ou the subject of the Waste Lands Board Mr. Fyke strongly nrged upon the House the desirability of their complete abolition throughout the colony. He believed the country would go entirely with the Government, it they would do so. Mr. LUNDON spoke against the Bill, and said that the land question had not been equitably dealt with in Hokiango. Mr. .1. B. FISHER also objected to the upset price of 30s. an acre, thinking that the minimum should be reduced to 10s, He hoped the Government would introduce some legislation to conduce to the administration and settlement of the land on the West Coast. He should support the second reading of the Bill, and hoped the Government would amend it before it went into committee.

Mr. KELLY thought the whole Bill should be re-considered by the Government. Mr. THOMSON regretted that the Bill had not been put in the shape in which itwas proposed that it should pass the House. Ho hoped that some of the clauses would form a Bill of themselves, and be taken from the present Bill. With regard to the reduction of the upset price from £'i to 305., it was a step in the right direction, and would he appreciated as a great boon by the people of Otago. From what he knew of the land on the deferred payment system he would almost go the length of saying that no ono should he assisted by the State in this respect, unless he were a warned man. (Laughter.) There wore very great drawbacks to single men settling upon the land—drawbacks to them and to the community at large. Mr. SEYMOUR defended the Waste Land Board, and objected to land on the deferred payment system being higher than for cash. Mr. ORMOND thought the Bill was of the greatest importance—indeed, of far more importance than the so-called liberal measures. He was not satisfied with the present Bill, and hoped tho Ministry would take it back. He was favorable to the selling of land on the deferred payment system and to the special settlement system. Mr. SPEIGHT addressed the House on the subject of the Bill, andamong otherthings spoke strongly in favor of special settlements, which he" said should be encouraged in every possible way. Unless they settled the land there was no hope for their future prosperity. Mr. IR El, AND was strongly in favor of the selling of land on the deferred payment systems, and suggested that the County Councils should be utilised as Waste Lands Boards. Air. GISBORNE did not see any necessity for a uniformity of land laws in the colony, as the circumstances were so very different in different parts of the country. Air. ROLLESTON having replied, the motion for the second reading was put and carried on the voices. PILLS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time: —The Riverton Drillshed Reserves Bill, the Hamilton Hall Site Act, IS7S, Amendment Bill, a Bill to provide for the Registration of Persons Qualified to Vote at Election of Members for the House of Representatives, a Bill to provide for the representation of the Alaori people in the House of Representatives, a Bill to make provision for the regulation and conduct of elections of members of the House of Representatives, A BUI for the Prevention of Corrupt Practices at Elections oi members of the House of Representatives, and to make provision for the trial of election petitions. A Bill to repeal certain enactments which have been consolidated in several Acts of the present session relating to the election of members of the House of Representatives. A Bill to enforce and collect the duties on the estates of deceased persons. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were read a second time: —Auckland Loans Consolidation Bill, the Slaughter-house Act 1877 Amendment Bill (to be referred to a select committee), Napier Church Lands Trust Bill. The house adjourned at twenty minutes to one o’clock.