PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIV, Issue 5720, 30 July 1879, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, 29th July. The Sfeaker took the chair at half-past two o’olock. PETITIONS —PAPERS, The Hon. Oapt. Eraser presented a petition from the Presbyterians of Oamaru, re Bible reading in schools.—The Hon. Mr, Paterson presented two petitions on the same subject.— Captain Eraser likewise presented a petition from the inhabitants of Inchclutha, asking an inquiry as to damage to their property by late floods.—Colonel Whitmore laid several papers on the table. THE NEW ZEALAND AGRICULTURAL COMPANY. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE asked the Colonial Secretary whether Sir Julius Vogel had applied to the Government previous to joining the above company for permission to do so. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE said the Government had not been applied to till after the Agent-General's becoming connected with the scheme. He would lay the correspondence on the table. TREASURY BILLS. In reference to a question asked by the Hon. Mr, Waterhouse on a previous day, the Hon. Colonel Whitmore said the course taken by the Government in making Treasury bills payable in London was the same as had been followed on two previous occasions at the request, and to suit the convenience of holders. The amount made payable in London was £442,000. NOTICES. The Hon. Mr. Hart gave notice to introduce a Bill to Amend the Law Societies Act. —The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse gave notice to ask a question relative to the appeals against the land tax in Wellington. WEST COAST NATIVE RESERVES. The Hon. Mr. TAIAEOA moved,—That there be laid on the table a return, in English and Maori, of the reserves at Arahura and Greymonth, West Coast, the titles to which were investigated by Mr. Commissioner Young ; together with the names of the natives to whom the lands were awarded.—Agreed to. ADDRESS IN REPLY. The Speaker and the mover and seconder having waited on the Governor with the Address in Reply, his Excellency thanked the Council for their cordial welcome to him, and for their promise of co-operation in all measures taken for the good of the colony. ADJOURNMENT. The following Orders of the Day were pestponed—Habitual Drunkards Bill, second reading; Administration Bill, second reading; District Law Societies Act Amendment Bill, second reading;—and the Council adjourned at 3.30 to Thursday at 2.30. HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, July 29. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’olock. GENERAL. Several petitions were presented, notices of motion given, and papers laid on the table and ordered to be printed. AGRICULTURAL LEASE REGULATIONS. Mr. MANDERS was to ask the Minister of Lands, —If he will cause steps to be taken to be taken to secure the opening of blocks of land fot settlement under the Agricultural Lease Regulations at Pembroke (Lake Wanaka), Kingston, and Gleuorchy (Lake Wakatipu), the opening ®f these several blocks having been promised for some time past ? but with the permission of the House the question was postponed for a week. ROADS AND BRIDGES. Dr. HENRY asked the Minister for Public Works, —If he will lay before this House a return showing the moneys voted towards roads and bridges on the Nelson to Lyell, Westport and Reefton-road last session ; • also the precise works on which those votes were expended, and defining the counties where such works were carried on ? The Minister of Public Works replied that the papers would be laid on the table as soon as possible. MR. LARNAOH’S EXPENSES. Mr. STEYENS asked the Premier, — Whether Mr. Larnach, in addition to the £2OOO paid to him as one of the Joan agents, has received any public money of the colony since he ceased to be Minister of the Crown ; and, if so, tc what amount, and on on what account ? Sir GEORGE GREY replied that he had been unable to obtain any information on the subject, and he did not believe that any such additional sum had, been paid to him. (Hear, hear.) WAI3IAKARIRI PROTECTIVE WORKS. Mr. BOWEN asked the Minister for Public Works, —Whether the Government have received a report on the subject of the damage done by the railway works on the Waimakariri River to the protective works erected by the borongh of Kaiapoi; and whether such report will be published ? The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW said a report had been received on the subject, which was now laid upon the table. THE FLOODS IN CANTERBURY. Mr. BOWEN asked the Minister for Public Works, —Whether there is any Departmental report on the drainage of the Mauderville and Rangiora district, and of the damage done to the railway works by the last flood T The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that a report was being prepared, and would be laid on the table shortly. CANTERBURY RAILWAYS. Mr. BOWEN asked the Minister for Public Works, —Whether provision has been made for the extension of the dangerous platform at the station at Kaiapoi, which was to have been carried out when the railway gauge was converted ? The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that provision had been made for extending the platform and other improvements, and a sum to defray the expense had been placed on the estimates. KATISATI (NO. 2) SETTLEMENT. Captain MORRIS asked the Government, — If they will lay before this House the repert of the Crown Lands Ranger on the Katikati No. 2 Settlement ? The Hon. Mr. THOMSON replied that the report would be furnished as soon as the information could be obtained. ' THE MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS ACT, 1876. Mr. GOLDIE asked the Government, — Whether it is their intention, this session, to make any amendments in “The Municipal Corporations Act, 1876”? By consent of the House this question was postponed. BRANCH RAILWAYS. The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON asked the Government what action (if any) has been taken under the amendment of the Public Works Act, 1876, of last session, which added the words “ with branches” after the word “ Masterton,” in the Fourth Schedule of the Public Works Act, 1876 ? Also, whether the expenditure required to carry out the proposal to construct a branch line from Woodside to Greytown has been brought before Parliament, and authorised by it ? <a The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that the survey had been made, but he believed no expenditure had been incurred. The amount had been so very small that he believed it would be covered by the sum authorised for the Wellington and Masterton line. RAILWAY STATION. - Captain RUSSELL asked the Minister tor Public Works when the promised railway station on the Napier-Kopua line of railway, at Tareha’s Bridge (Awatoto) will be erected ? The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that the matter had been referred to the Resident Engineer some time in October last, and the erection of a platform had been ordered to cost about £IOB. There had been a petition presented praying for the construction of a goods shed, but it was got up by some persons who intended to'cut their land up into sections. Mr. BARFF asked the Native Minister, — If ho will lay before this House copies of all maps issued under the authority of the Government to the various survey offices throughout the colony, showing the results of the survey of the Waimato Plains, and the acreage (if any) of the lands proposed to be set apart for the occupation of the native race ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied that he was in possession of Ihe maps referred to, and would lay them on Jhe table of the House next sitting day. GBEYMOUTH HARBOR. Mr- P.EEVES asked the Minister for Public Works,—When Sir John Coede’s report on the Greymouth harbor may be expected. ; The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that would probably be some time before the report in question would be received by the Government. QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE.

Mr. BARTON said he desired to ask a questioa without notice, which was whether the Government would lay on the table of the House correspondence relating to what had taken place between Colonel Whitmore and himself since last session respecting the judicial Inquiry rt the conduct of the Chief Justice and Judge Richmond regarding himself

(Mr. Barton) and his clients, and also whether the Government will move that the correspondence should be printed for the use of the House ? He considered the question was one of a character which hardly required notice, more particularly as he knew that the correspondence had been laid on the table of the other House. Sir GEO RGE GREY said the correspondence had already been laid on the table of the Lower House, but ho would now give notice that it should be printed. THE NO CONFIDENCE DEBATE. The various questions being now disposed of,and the no confidence debate being the next business on the Paper, Sir GEORGE GREY moved that the vote be postponed until four o'clock, as it was understood that the vote should be taken at that time, and if it were taken before members might be absent. The lion. Sir W. FOX would like it to bo understood that the Opposition was not responsible for any delay. It had been agreed that the vote should be taken as soon as the orders of the day were over. After some short discussion the House adjourned until 3.45, at which time it was agreed the vote should be taken. On reassembling, Dr. HENRY said he would waive his right to resume the debate, in order that the question might go to the vote. The motion was then put, and a division (rolled for. The following is the result ; —its announcement was received with loud cheers : —Ayes, 47 ; noes, 33.

Ayes, 47. Adams Henry Itolleston Atkinson Hobbs Rowo Caigcnt Hunter Russell Barf! Hursthouso Saunders Beetham Johnston Seymour Bowen Kelly Stevens Brandon Kenny Stewart Bryce Mscfarlaue Studholmo Curtis Mo rhousa Sutton Cutton Morris Tawiti Douglas Murray Tomoana Fitrroy Oliver Wakefield (teller) Fox (teller) Ormond Whitaker Gibbs Pke Williams Green Richardson Woolcock. Hart Richmond Noes, 3S. Ballance Grey Reeves (teller) Barton Hamlin Se Ron Brown, J. C. Hislop Shanks Bunny Hodgkinsoa Sheehan (tel'er) Carrington Jackson Shrimski DeLautour Joyce Swanson Feldwick Macandrow Tainui Fisher Manders Thomson George Moss To e Gisborno Nahe Turnbull Goldie Rees Wallis. Pair. Ayes. Noes. McLean Montg tnary

Mr. HISLOP said ha rose to propose an amendment in the shape of a simple addition to the motion already carried. With regard to the Opposition as now constituted, it might be stated that they had so done their work that they required the assistance of the other side of the House. (Hear, hear.) In order to make the Address complete, it would be necessary to add the proposed words, so that his Excellency might be properly informed with regard to the action of the House. If the Opposition felt inclined to blame him for the course he was taking, they would turn the blame from him to those who were the cause of his adopting such a course. He must admit with regard to the measures which the Ministry had carried on he had not always bean satisfied with them. He had not, however, seen they had conducted themselves that members should go over to the Ministry of 1877. He could not conscientiously see how those who went in for turning out the Ministry of 1877 could now go and vote as they had done. The Ministry of that date was what was known as the Loan aud Public Works Ministry. The picture presented to the House on many occasions was truly pitiable. The Financial Statement did not meet with the support of the House, and on many other subjects they were opposed by the Opposition. Mr. Hislop pioceeded to briefly review the position of parties, and speak of the reasons which had led to the late Government being ousted. The Opposition ought now to give some some guarantee that if they again got on the benches they would, mend their ways. He did not know of any position more humiliating than that of the Opposition last year. They ought to have laid something before the House to show why they were justified in now turning against the Government as they had done. The only two charges against the Government were a personal, at, tack on the Native Minister and a general charge of maladministration. He would ask the leader of the Opposition whether he had strictly inquired into the characters of all those whom he had himself appointed, in tlft manner indicated. For his own part, he could speak most highly of the Hon. Mr. Sheehan. With regard to the question of maladministration, only two arguments had been used against them, and those were that certain epithets had been applied towards members of the Government. If that was a reason why members should be kept out of office, then the members of the Opposition came themselves very strongly within this category. (Laughter.) The question of maladministration had not been proved in any way. He Was sorry to bear the references made by Mr. Hobbs, because if there was anybody returned through the influence of this Ministry it was the hon. gentleman himself. He would remind the House of the character’ of James Fox, the English statesman, whose private character would not bear inspection, yet he was one of the brightest ornaments the English House of Commons ever had. (Applause.) Outside of the question of native affairs, the only matters brought forward by the Opposition had been the Tapanui contract, the Land Bill, and the alteration of certain maps. The amendment which he intended to move as an addition to the motion was as follows:—“ That this House also thinks it right to add that the foregoing opinion has been arrived at in the absence of official papers or information on the several subjects in regard to which your advisers are alleged to have been guilty of maladministration and neglect.” Gentlemen, by voting as they had done, had broken their pledges to their constituencies, and among others he wou d mention Mr. Oliver, of Dunedin, who was returned,' pledged to support Sir George Grey. (Mr. Oliver : I deny it most emphatically.) He would then, of course, stand corrected. He hoped the amendment which he now proposed would be carried by the House. No doubt certain members had been induced to leave their party by flattery and promises. He thought he had proved that members who had opposed the last Ministry had shown that they had no excuse for going over to the other side .of the House, for they certainly had not proved maladministration against the Government. He concluded by moving the amendment. Mr. SHRIMSKI seconded the motion.

Mr. REES said they they had had the spectacle that day of seeing go over to the other side a noble army of rats. (Applause and laughter.) A more disgraceful scene could not have been acted. They had solemnly pledged themselves to their constituencies, and had now torn those promises to shreds. No man with a spark of honor would have dared to have done such a thing without first returning, his pledge to hia constituents. There would have been something manly in that. It had been denied by one of the members that he had gone into the House pledged to a certain party. Why, be ' could mention the names of plenty of them ; they were all honorable men, but there were so many of them that he, could not name them all. (Name, name.) Mr. Rowe. (Mr. Rowe ; I deny it.) Why, his speeches were in print, and he had said that except on the question of abolition he would follow Sir George Grey in everything. (Mr. Rowe here again rose, but was ruled out of order.) Mr. Rees also referred to other members who he alleged had deserted their color.-*, Something h a d been said about a dip, but if some of the noble army of rats were put in such a dip they would come out very little the better for it, for it would be impossible to cleanse them. (Laughter.) Numbers of rumors had been set afloat for the purpose of poisoning the minds of the people against the Ministry, and among these had been a rumor that when the Ministry had been authorised tq spend £30,000 they had spent £60,000. He was very sorry for those who had been led away on this question. It was a pity for them and a pity for the country. It had been stated by the hon. member for Waitemata that certain natives at Poverty Bay had asserted rights over land at that plaoe acting under his (the speaker’s) advice. He then proceeded to narrate the facts, and concluded by saying that an appeal ought to be made to the country.

Mr. RQWE wished to say a word of explanation. He had always been opposed to the policy of Sir George Grey. (No,) He had always in that House given a conscientious vote, and he would defy any one to say he had not done so on that occasion, (Hear, hear.)

Mr. HOBBS briefly defended himself from the attack made upon him by Mr. Rees. The House adjourned at 5.30 until 7.30. On resuming, Sir GEORGE GREY addressed the House and said the hon. member for Wanganui had greatly misled the House with regard to

1 «erfcain matters. He proceeded to speak on the question of dissolution of the House, and referred to the dissolution of the House of Commons at the time that Lord Derby was Premier. He (the speaker) assumed office exactly under the same circumstances as Lord Derby. He, however, found it impossible to carry on the business of the country properly. He therefore applied for a dissolution, which was refused. He had not now been fairly pressed—charges had been made, but none of them sustained—the only object of the Opposition being to damage the Government in the eyes of the country. The reports were made with an object, and no doubt to influence the Governor. Charges of maladministration had been brought against them both in the House and durin*- the recess. Every one of the charges which Sir W. Fox had made proved to be unfounded, and reflected discredit upon himself. (Hear, hear.) In Wanganui he had brought a charge against him in reference to the Governor and the Hiueraoa. Ho might state that in tliat case he (the speaker) did his duty to the country. The Government had offered him a man-of-war, and had given him a very handsome sum of money to pay his expenses in the event of his not accepting the first offer. The position he found himself in was this —He believed that a disturbance on tho West Coast might at any moment break out, and that in that event the Hinemoa was necessary for the safety of the colony. The hon. member for Wanganui had spoken most strongly on the subject, aud had spoken about a sick marchioness, who could have had every comfort in a man-of-war or a private steamer. He maintained too that the life of a child of the humblest settler of New Zealand was of more consequence than that of a marchioness. (Ob, and laughter.) They might lau"h, and he cried shame on the bon. member for so doing. He believed that he was even now trying to influence the Governor in an indirect manner. (Oh.) He maintained that the life of any settler or any child on the West Coast was of more consequence than the life of a sick marchioness. He would ask the country if he was not doing his duty in keeping that vessel in New Zealand waters. (Hear, hear.) Another charge had been made against him, viz., that some insulting term had been applied to him. He had heard no such term applied to him, and did not believe it, and could only say that it was not correct, to say the least of it. And if such a term was used, a white man must have suggested it to an ignorant native—(hear, hear) and was he to be blamed even if some opprobrious epithet had been applied to him?—the disgrace lay on the instigators, and not on him. (Hear, hear.) Suppose a young man were to apply to a member of that House a term which would stick to him through life, such a term as “Dismal Jemmy”— (laughter) was that member to be blamed. (Hear, hear.) He could afford to laugh at such charges. The evil of such a charge reflected an the hon. member himself. He would now refer to the Native Minister. It had been said that dishonored cheques of the Hon. Mr.' Sheehan were strewn about the country. The hon. gentleman then went on to speak of the earlier days of the Native Minister, and the way he, had struggled for himself aud his family, denying that he had ever done anything dishonorable. It was a matter of fact that he had been offered a bribe of £2OOO by the natives, and that although pressed for money he had scornfully refused it. (Hear, hiar.) If the hen. member for Frankliu were ever tempted iu a like manner he hoped he would- have the fortitude to do as the Hon. the Native Minister had done. Every kind of misrepresentation had been made to mislead the country. The hon. member for Waitemata had said the Government had failed to carry out their promise of making great reductions. They had made reductions, but had found it impossible to make great redactions in that House. They had attempted it at the head of the service, aud had at once been met with a negative vote. (Hear, hear.) He next referred to the charges made against himself in reference to the Legislative Council, and to describe the constitution of that body. Had he the power he would have taken away the £2OO a year bestowed on the members of that Council long ago, and had he remained in office that session, and the House had backed him up, he would have taken away that £2OO before the recess. The hon. gentleman next referred to the state of things in England in the matter of representation, particularly as regarded, the House of Peers. It was well known that Bishops were appointed for political reasons. The poor clergy had no hope—all the higher preferments were given to the friends and relatives of the great. He next referred to the state of the army at Home, and the position in which the men were placed before the abolition of the purchase system. There was no hope for patient merit.. And the same thing prevailed in the army as at the Bench of Justice. The rule was that it was only the followers of the Government who could rise to the highest offices of the law. The nation was oppressed by cruelty in every direction. He gave an instance of oppression that had come under his knowledge in his earlier days, when there were absolutely 200 crimes for which a man might be hung. There had been a great many reforms in England, but still the poorer classes, particularly the agricultural laborers, were oppressed iu every direction. The Premier gave several instances that had come to his own knowledge, and said that to-day the condition of the laborer was worse than it had been during any time in the last two centuries. The Premier described a harrowing picture of the home life of an English agricultural laborer. He was sorry to see hon. members laugh. It was the same men who would laugh at the troubles of the poor of New Zealand. He next passed on to the state of the poorer classes in Ireland, and afterwards returned to the condition of things iu New Zealand. What was the state of the franchise here ? In round numbers there were about 50,000 people who had votes. If the rolls were searched, it would be found that there were 06,000 people who ought to be enfranchised. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman said hear, hear. Why for years past had they not then enfranchised them ? • How was it that the people had been robbed of their laud and ground down by .taxation before it was done ? They had taken good care that there should be no fair representation of the people. He and his. hon. colleague represented a population of 13,000, while Taranaki, with 9000, had three votes ? Was that justice ? And the moment Ministers tried to get some justice done, they all united to prevent them. (Hear, hear.) And yet they would go to the Governor now and tell him that they represented the people. They did nothing of the kind for they robbed the people of their franchise. If their representation was gone into it would be found as bad as the representation in England was in the very worst of times. He would give instances of it. Two Ministers—-one a manager and the other a director of a bank—went and made arrangements for the money of the country being deposited in that bank. Thefe was no fair competition to get the best interest they could for the people. And by this means they were able to bring a great deal of pressure to bear upon the population. Aud such people as these, who had done no good for the country, had amassed large fortunes. And the very people who now wanted to get -into power were offenders of this character. He next referred to the taxation of the country, saying that thousands of families had been ruined by those who now opposed the Government. He next asked them about the land laws. In former days Ministers had taken large blocks of land—hundreds of thousands of acres —and called them Ministerial runs. But did members of the present Ministry do that sort of thing ? No. Sir George Grey then referred to the system of gridironing in Canterbury, and said the whole system had been inimical to the interests of the people at large. Eiums of money belonging to the people themselves had been lent out to such as he had referred to, to the injury of the people themselves. He said again that thousands of families had been ruined by the land laws and the unjust taxation. In the case of the public works the taxation was placed upon the shoulders of those who could least afford to bear it. They took the money from the poor and gave the rich the power of spending it. In the matter of immigration, too, there had been gross mismanagement, aud here again the people had to suffer. Then with regard to the lands. . The. native lands had been more unfairly dealt with than the Crown lands. He spoke of a favored member of that House who was tq have the right of purchasing certain lands to the exclusion of all Others. The natives had in many oases been as directly robbed of their lands as though the money had been taken from their pockets. When he looked around he saw many men who looked upon him as their onemy, and who would do anything almost to remove him from office. Sir George then referred to the measures introduced by his Government last session, making a few remarks on each. He was only, he said, the enemy of those who were the common enemy of the country, and who would try to hurl from power any set of men who were desirous of removing the abuses undei which the country groaned. The natives felt i . that now justice would he done to them, but

the House seemed determined to stop it. Let them consider the advantages that would have followed if the reforms in regard to the natives had been allowed to be carried out. The Government was c-a-tinually pressed to grant advantages to certain individuals ; such Solicitations, indeed, as few members had any idea of. He instanced a case where he had himself been beset in a public-house to decide a land question that would have for ever taken the land from those who were still unborn. And the Opposition—the common enemy thought they had achieved a victory ; but he'would beg to state they would yet find themselves mistaken. (Hear, bear.) If there had been fair representation, those things could never have happened. It was by cramming that House with large representation for small constituencies that the country suffered. There could be no doubt that men had been directly rewarded for opposing the present Government. (Hear, hear.) It became the people of New Zealand now to struggle as one man to resist the evils with which they were oppressed—to have better representation in that House, and different representation in the other Chamber—although he believed that one Chamber would be sufficient for all the wants of the people. Let them get on by themselves without the interference of those who come from the old country to injure them and their country. The step taken by the Opposition was quite without precedent. If fair charges had been made against the Government they could have been easily rebutted, but they had not rebutted them. He was not the common enemy of the people, but the common friend. He was welcomed by thousands wherever he went, and he would dare the Opposition to meet him in their own homes. (Oh, and laughter.) He would ask them where they got their lauds ? (Laughter.) And were the lot banded together ? (Laughter.) He was satisfied the time would yet come when those who called him the common enemy of all would be ashamed of themselves They entered the world with nothing, and they left it in the same way. Himself and his friends would not cease from the course they had followed. It was yet to be seen whether they would not be allowed to appeal to the constituencies. (Hear, hear.) If he had to exercise his power by pandering he would be very glad indeed to resign. (Hear, hear.) Mr. MANDIiUS said a few words, and thought the House would be justified in going to the country. [At least, he was understood to speak to this effect, but his utterance was anything but intelligible in the reporters’ gallery.]

Mr. HAMLIN said before the debate closed he would like to read a telegram he had received from Rewi. [Telegram read, saying Rewi had no fault to find with Sir George Grey, and adding that the telegram was his (Rewi’s) own.] The amendment of Mr. Hislop was then put, and declared to be lost on the voices. The motion of the hon. member for Wanganui was then put and agreed to. The Hon. W. FOX then moved that a committee be appointed to draw up an address for presentation to his Excellency ; the committee to consist of Messrs. Wakefield, Stewart, Green, and the mover. The committee then retired, and returned in the couraa of a few seconds, when Sir William presented the address to the Speaker, and it was read by the Clerk of the House and agreed to. Sir W. FOX moved that the address be presented to his Excellency by the Speaker and the members of the House at such time as may be agreed upon. Sir GEORGE GREY moved that his Exlency’s speech to both Houses of Parliament be taken into consideration on the next sitting day.—Agreed to. The House then adjourned until 2.30 today. .