PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIV, Issue 5714, 23 July 1879, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, July 22. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at halfpast. 2 o’clock. NEW MEMBER. The Hon. Mr. Taiaroa was sworn as a Legislative Councillor, and took his seat. NOTICE. The Hon. Mr. HALL gave notice to ask for a return of the amount spent on native land purchases. PETITION. The Hon. Mr. Dignan presented a petition from one Alexander Black at Auckland, stating that his character had been traduced by Mr, Chamberlin in a speech in the Council last year, and asking for such redress as the Council may think fit.—On the question that the petition should be allowed to lie on the table, the Hon. Colonel Whitmore rose to object to the reception of petitions of this nature. It .was not to be taken for granted that an hon. member of the Council was liable to have his remarks in that Chamber called in question by any ou'sider. It was a question of privilege, and he should object to this petition being received. The Hou. Dr. Pollen and the Hon. Mr. Henderson testified their belief that Mr. Black was entitled to consideration on account of his long standing as an old settler and conscientious politiciau.—The Hon. Mr. Mantell said the petition should I e referred to the Petitions Committee iu ordinary course.—The Hon. Sir F. Bell supported the course proposed by the Hon. Colonel Whitmore.—The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse said the Council should follow the English practice, which was to receive all petitions, even though affecing members of Parliament.—The Hou. Mr. Hall did not think the privileges of Parliament would be materially affected by the reception of the petition. No doubt the petitioner would be satisfied with the debate that had taken place, without any further action being taken.— The Hon. Captain Fraser deemed the petition presented re Mr. Kinross’ ease was a breach of privilege.—The Hon. Dr. MeNZIES thought the petition should be treated as an ordinary one.—The Hon. Mr, Chamberlin said he had been mistaken in the remarks he had made about Mr. Black, and he now would apologise to that gentleman. The matter then dropped. PAPERS.

The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE laid on the table reports of the Ta Kopua native meeting; on the confiscated lauds of rebel natives ; on the Sydney Exhibition ; on the manufacture of 100,000 tons of steel rails within the colony; on the unauthorised expenditure for the year ending 30th June last ; copies of the balance sheets of Road Boards, County and Municipal Councils, and other local bodies, &c. VOTE OF THANKS. The SPEAK HR read a letter from the Hon. Major Richmond expressing his deep gratitude to the Council for the vote of thanks it hadpassed to him. LAW OP ENTAIL. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse, —That, in the opinion of this Council, it is desirable to provide (1) for the abolition of all laws authorising the entailmeut of landed estates ; (2) for the subdivision at death of the estates of landed proprietors ; and that a select committee be appointed by ballot to prepare and bring in a Hill fn accordance with the above resolution ; —The mover said he wished to postpone his motion indefinitely. As there was some political excitement now prevalent the matter was not likely to receive the attention that its importance demanded, nor could the time be devoted to its discussion which would probably be given under other circumstances. COMMITTEES. The following committees were appointed:— Printing, Standing Orders, Selection, Local Bills, Library, and Joint Committee on Bills. FIRST READING. A Bill to vest the management of the Awatere Reserve in the Road Board for the district of Awatere (Hon. Captain Bailie) was read a first time. REPORTING DEBATES COMMITTEE. On the motion for appointing the Reporting Committee, the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse said there was much complaint year after year of the delay in the Printing Department. Many papers, Hansard among others, were not published till they had lost nearly all interest, and therefore this printing was a waste of money. He thought the two branches of the Printing Department should be separated, so that the Hansard work should not be interfered with by other matters. He moved that the committee should inquire into the subject, with a view to prevent delay in future—The Hon. Colonel Whitmore admitted there had been unavoidable delay in several cases, but any alteration of system would involve much expense.—The Hon. Mr. Mantell raised the question of who corrected members* proof slips that were not ready till after the prorogation ? There had been important errors through members not seeing slips before leaving. Mr. Waterhouse’s motion was carried. VIGILANCE committees. The Hon. Mr. SCOTLAND moved,—That, in the opinion of this Council, when owing to exceptional circumstances the available police force is considered insufficient for the preservation of order in any district, the proper manner of supplementing it is for the magistrates to swear in special constables, and not for the residents to take the law into their_ own hands by constituting themselves a Vigilance Committee, such as the one lately formed at Waitara, Taranaki. The mover said his motion was not intended to cast any reflection on the late action of the settlers on the West Coast. He, however, disapproved of Vigilance Committees, except in extreme cases, such as had occurred on the Pacific coast of America in the early days of the gold discovery. There, indeed, it was the only means of maintaining anything like order; but the system was liable to abuse in a properly-settled and civilised country, where the ordinary means of government should be sufficient.—Motion carried. ' ADDRESS IN REPLY, On the debate being resumed, The Hon. Mr. HART said he must taka exception to the statement of the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse that theie was a largo amount of mystery connected with the Native Office, He considered the affairs of that department were as accessible to the public as any other branch of the Government service. To say it was otherwise was to show ignorance of the machinery of government. The hon. gentleman entered at great length into questions relating to the confiscated lands and native troubles on the West Coast, to show that the Government had acted improperly, seeing the exceptional circumstances under which the so-called confiscation was made. He thought the natives who opposed the survey were perfectly in the right. The Government should reward _Te Whiti rather that punish him for the action he had taken, which was the only way open to him to assert a right which was undoubtedly his. He considered the present most unsatisfactory condition of all native matters showed the utter and complete incapacity of the Premier to deal with the subjects he had attempted to handle. (Hear, hear.) _He compared the treatment of Maori questions by Sir George Grey with that of Sir D. McLean, to the advantage of the latter. The Hon. Mr. WILSON said he deeply regretted that both the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse and the Hon. Mr. Hart had attempted to justify the natives of the West Coast. The Government, he considered, were perfectly justified in the action they had taken in ordering the surveys. Ample reserves were to have been made for the Maoris. If an injustice had been done to the natives the tribunals of the country were open to them. He considered the speech of Mr. Waterhouse, though no doubt able in itself, would have applied to any Government for the last ten years. He had been asked by the Hon. Mr. Sheehan to correct Mr. Waterhouse’s assertion that the present Native Minister had in former years advised the Maoris of Hawke’s Bay to take a similar course to that of the West Coast natives. Mr. Sheehan, as their legal adviser, had merely counselled them to test in a Court of law the legality of the method by which certain native lands had been acquired by Europeans. Ho thought the native policy of the Government on the whole had been a success. (Laughter.) _. „ At 5.30, on the motion of the Hon. fair D, Bell, the debate was adjourned.

HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, Jclt 22. The Fpeakeb took the chair at half-past two o’clock. GENEBAL. A number of petitions were presented, notices of motion given, and papers laid on the table. MISSING DOCUMENTS. The Hon. E. RICHARDSON drew the attention of the House to what he considered to be a question of privilege. Last year the Railways Construction Bill gave power to make certain railways. He had a day or two ago wished to look at a certain map, which it appeared had been mislaid. It was, however, afterwards found, when he (the speaker) had

noticed certain lines upon it which were not there before. He was of opinion that such documents ought to be kept in the strong room of the House. The Hou. Mr. MAC ANDREW said from the remarks of Mr. Richardson it might be inferred that the Public Works Department had been tampering with this map. For his own part he did not believe such a thing, and wished that Mr. Richardson had spoken to him personally on the subject. The' Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON said he had considered it a question to bring before the House. The matter then dropped. WASTE LANDS. Mr. HURSTHUUSE asked the Minister of Lands, —Whether the Government will this session introduce a Bill dealing with the classification and price of wa-te lands, with a view of reducing the minimum price at which Crown lands are now sold ? The Hon. Mr. THOMSON replied that the Land Bill, which had been read a first time, dealt with the price on the question of deferred payments, the minimum price being 30s. an acre. It was not proposed to interfere with the existing state of the law with regard to the classification of land. SHEEP. Mr. SEYMOUR asked the Premier, —If he will lay before this House the reports of the Chief Inspectors of Sheep ? The PREMIER said the reports in question would be laid on the table as soon as convenient. THE SHAREBROKERS ACT. Mr. TOLE asked the Premier, —I! he had received a communication from the sharebrokers of Auckland, making certain representations regarding the operation of the Sharebrokers Acts ; and whether the Government intend to take action in the direction of such representations, if any ? The question was postponed until next day. DAMAGE FROM ENGINE SPARKS. Mr. ORMOND asked the Minister for Public Works, —Whether an application was received from Mr. Edward Watts, a settler resident at Kaikora, Hawke’s Bay, dated Ist February, 18/9, making a claim for compensation for damage done by fire caused by sparks from a railway engine ; if so, why such application was not acknowledged and replied to ? Also, what course does the Government intend to pursue in respect to that and similar claims ? The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW said that steps would be taken to prevent any repetition of the occurrence. With regard to the question of compensation, that would depend upon circumstances. THE WAIKATO-TARANAKI RAILWAY. Mr. ORMOND asked the Native Minister, —Whether Rewi Maniopoto has agreed to give the laud necessary for the construction of the proposed railway from Waikato to Taranaki ; if so, on what terms ; and will the Government lay the papers on the subject before this House ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN said he proposed to place certain papers on the table which would give the required information. THE GOVERNMENT HOUSE, HOKITIKA. Mr. BARFF asked the Government, —If they will lay before this House a return showing what rent has been paid for the occupation of the building known as Government House, Hokitika, since the year 1876, and to whom it has been paid ? Sir GEORGE GREY replied that rent had been paid for the building in question, and that particulars would be laid on the table as soon as possible. THE WESTLAND DISTRICT COURT. Mr. BARFF asked the Minister of Justice, —lf he will lay before this House certain returns concerning the sittings of the Westland /District Court, promised last session ? The Hon. JOHN SHEEHAN said the returns would be laid on the table shortly. IMMIGRATION. ' Mr. GOLDIE asked the Minister for Immigration,—lf he will lay before this House a return giving the number of 'immigrants received into the colony during the year ending 30th June, 1879 ; the localities in which such immigrants were located, and their nationalities ? The Hon. Mr. GISBORNE said lie would lay the information sought for on the table next day. THE INVERCARGILL GAOL. Mr. FELD WICK asked the Minister of Justice, —If he will lay before this House all reports in possession, of the Government regarding the condition of the Invercargill gaol ? The Hon. JOHN SHEEHAN said he bad no objection whatever to give the information Bought for. It should be laid on the table as soon as possible. GRANTS OF' LAND. Mr. HAMLIN asked the Minister for Native Affairs, —Whether the Government have made the inquiry promised on the 4th October, 1878, in reference to the claims of members-of the Defence Force to grants of land ? The Hon. J. SHEEHAN explained at some length the particulars of the various inquiries that had been held on the subject. The Government had no object to another inquiry, but the principal witness, Mr. T. Russell, was iu England. Still if Mr. Hamlin moved for a commission of inquiry the Government would not oppose it. NEW BILLS. The following new Bills were introduced and read a first time :—Mr. Barton—A Bill to constitute a Harbor Board for the port of Wellington (in committee); Hon. Sir G. Grey —A Bill to impose a duty upon income (in committee) ; Hon. Sir G, Grey—The Land Tax Act Amendment Bill (in committee) ; Mr. Hamlin —The Onehunga Water Reserves Bill; Hon. Sir G. Grey—A Bill to enable Maori owners of land to have the same sold, leased, or disposed of for their benefit by the Government of the colony, and to restrain unauthorised dealings in such lands; Mr. Moorhouse —A Bill to amend the Sheriffs Act, 1858. NO CONFIDENCE DEBATE. Mr. BARFF was the first to address the House, and regretted that his colleague had -not resumed the debate, as he had moved the adjournment of it. He had hoped to hear from that gentleman something that might have induced him to return to the road from which he had felt it his duty to stray. They might have heard some of the views of the hon. member during the reoess, but they had not done so. He had been brought forward by the hon. member at the head of the Government, and it would have been an instnptive lesson if the House had been let intb the secret of Mr. George’s return for the West Coast, He had no hesitation in saying that an attempt had been made to corrupt his (the speaker's) constituency to an extent such as had enabled Mr. George to get into the House. He ought, therefore, to have defended the position which he had taken up. The real question they had to deal with was, whether the House and the country could further trust the Government, which had strewn that floor with broken promises. He himself had been a supporter of Sir George Grey when he took office ; but when he compared his promises with their fulfilment —or non-fulfilment —ha considered he was perfectly entitled to secede from such a party. He had, however, no other thing left him to do after the maladministration of the last year. Both parties at the time ofjthe abolition debate had promised local selfgovernment for the people, but no attempt bad been made to carry out such promises. In spite of the grand speeches they had heard, he questioned whether any of the departments were so efficient as they had been at any time during the last ten years. It had been said that the rights of the people would be maintained and their wrongs redressed, but nothing of the kind had taken place. The various departments appeared to be controlled by the under-secretaries. Such a state of things could not but lead to a very grave evil, which, as a matter of fact, now existed in the various public departments. The speaker told a characteristic American anecdote, in which he described the Naval Secretary, who was surprised to find that a vessel was hollow when the hatches were taken off, as being on a par with our Under-Secre-taries in their knowledge of the various departments. Mr. Barff then attacked the Government’s management of the native question) He knew of a case where a Maori had a right to a certain piece of land, even having scrip, which however defined no particular block, so that he was obliged to squat down anywhere. And yet on the same block of land two Europeans were able to get their Crown grants for 59 acres each, within six weeks of applying for them. The natives, he believed, were of opinion that touch of the land had not been legally confiscated. And thp conduct of the native office was sufficient to strengthen them m_ that opinion. In the matter of the Wannate Plains, he considered that the natives had not been properly treated. It was not for him to justify the action of the Maoris, but he wis e to point out that the coarse pursue y e Government was anything but a correct one. The reconstruction of the Native Department was urgently needed, or even its entire abolition. That department had for many years been sitting on New Zealand like the Old Man of the Sea m ‘ Smoad the Sailor. What the natives wanted was one law for the two races alike, and if on inquiry it were

found that the Maoris had acted wrongly, the Native Department would be found to bo not free from blame. He would not attack any particular Government on this point, for he believed they were all alike. It had been said that the Government was a Liberal Government ; but he denied it, for he failed to see a single measure introduced by the Government which it seemed prepared to support iu a liberal manner. He considered himself a Liberal, and should feel bound to support the amendment of the hon. member for Wanganui. (Cheers.) Dr. WALLIS said he should take an . exactly opposite view to the last speaker, and should vote in a directly opposite way. Of late there had been a political earthquake m New Zealand, and the Government had been hampered with a great many difficulties, of which the Opposition had taken advantage to attack them. Many of the Ministry’s good deeds had been kept in the back ground. What would be the result of the Opposition’s success ? Why, a Liberal Ministry would be upset, and a reactionary Ministry would be put into its place, and the good measures that were to be brought forward would be indefinitely postponed. Ministers might not have come up to their expectations, but it was better to bear the evils that they had than fly ' to others that they knew not of. (Cheers.) Ministers were placed in peculiar difficulties, and this should be taken into consideration. Some of them arose from the very fact of their Liberal policy. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Avon had told them that it was impossible to have real Liberals and real Conservatives, He failed to see this himself. In New Zealand, for many years past, they had been trying to establish a real party Government, and they were on the eve of getting what they wanted. The present was the most liberal Ministry they ever bad. (Laughter.) Ho referred to the Bills which the Government proposed to introduce. If the reforms to which he had alluded were carried out they would have a real party Government. They might then be well and wisely governed without tho existence of hostile parties. It was true they might get a higher and a better style of government than they had yet had. Neither England nor New Zealand, however, were yet in a condition to accept such a system of government. Party government had existed in England since 1688, but there had never been a government in New Zealand consisting of either Liberals or Conservatives. The present Ministry, take it all in all, was tho most liberal one they had ever been blessed with. The speaker then proceeded to pronounce a panegyric on the Ministry. Believing that to be so he would certainly vote against the amendment of Sir W. Eox, ■ He admitted that Liberalism had many weak points. One i great principle of Conservatism was rest and be thankful, while that of Liberalism was i forwards and upwards, exciting these by hostility. Dr. Walllis proceeded to give a , definition of Liberalism and Conservatism. ’ The Opposition was a most heterogeneous body ] of members ; they were notoriously without a policy. They might be able to pull down but : they were not able to build up. (Hear, hear.) I He would put the question to the Opposition, 1 What is your policy ? What are the planks of i your platform, or are you going to steal the ' clothes of your predecessors ? There were a s large number of what he called semi-Liberals 1 among the Opposition. These were they who ' wanted to enjoy the victories of the Liberals who had gone before them. (Applause.) 1 Then there were a large number of non- 1 desoripts, of whom it would be impossible 1 to give any account. And then there was a i party coming into existence, and called the ' middle party. (Laughter.) This party was 1 made up of trimmers who would go from one i side to the other. The sooner they did away i with such a party as that the better. (Ap- 1 planse.) Such a party was a fortuitous con- i course of atoms. He would point out to the < House the faults of the Ministry, and also their ’ great merits. No doubt they had committed ' various mistakes, and what Ministry had been in existence for two years without committing some mistakes and blunders ? They had been accused of not carrying out this, that, and the other, and Sir G. Grey had received a number of names that were not meant to honor him, He admitted that they had been extravagant, and he proceeded to refer to salaries, residences, and trips in the Hinemoa, in which the Ministry indulged. Well, it was not such a serious charge after all, and he had no hesitation in saying that the Ministry of which Sir W. Pox was a great dealmore extravagant than that of Sir George Grey, while Major Atkinson’s Ministry was most extravagant than all He next referred to appointment of J.P.’a, and to the election of certain people to the Upper House —but all Ministers since the establishment of the colony had made the same mistakes, and was the present Ministry to suffer for the maladministration of those who had gone before them 1 (Hear, hear.) Last year the Ministry had brought forward a measure to lift off hundreds of thousands of pounds from the shoulders of the working man. (No, no, and hear, hear.) That, at all events, was the object of the measures. With regard to the Hon. Mr. Sheehan, he had worked like a hero and a giant to settle ‘the native difficulty, and he was not to be blamed for the present condition of things. The Premier, too, had been most unfairly charged. The Thames Valley railway had been sanctioned iu that House—(hear, hear) — and it was the Legislature, and not the Ministry, which was responsible for the many orders in Council. Then he had been charged with quarrelling with his Ministers, but the speaker thought if he had any weakness it was not that of being quarrelsome, and his principal desire was to carry out the wishes of the House. (Oh.) He would now say a few words on the merits of the Ministry, which were very numerous in comparison with their faults. They were to bring down a number of useful measures, which would be of vast benefit to the country. With regard to the borrowing policy, he believed it was a mistake from the beginning ; but they were now in for it, like a maelstrom,, and would go round and round and round now till they were sucked in to the bottom. (No, no, and laughter.) So that he considered every Government would have to borrow now that the thing had been begun, in order to carry out the business of the country. He likened the Opposition to a band of prisoners once .seen in Ireland who were chained together, and who, on being questioned as to'what they were, said they called themselves the United Tipperary Volunteers. (Laughter) He was sorry to find that the House used such strong language on both sides, and he might especially refer to both Sir William Pox and Sir George Grey. (Applause.) Of course the language must be strictly Parliamentary, or the Speaker would put it down. All he could say, if it was Parliamentary, ho would like to know what was not. (Applause.) The Hon. Mr. GI3BOENE was the next speaker. He said it had been the custom in that House for many years past to carry the Address in Keply almost without any. debate. He was sorry to say that on this occasion the hon. member for Wanganui did not meet the Government on the question of policy. He would like to have seen an Opposition worthy of the name on the direct question of policy. He did not think a speech could have been delivered containing a more definite policy than the speech - of tho Governor. (Oh, and hear.) Mr. Gisborne went over the speech, and commented upon the various points contained therein, and said that if the policy as there enunciated were carried out it would be a great public benefit. He reviewed parts of the speeches of the hon. member for Wanganui and the hon. member for Avon. [Mr. EollestON rose to say that he was being misrepresented by the speaker.] Even it the Opposition had got a policy they had got it from the Government, and were iu possession of it under very suspicions circumstances. (Laughter.) The Ministry was asked to go out of office and to leave their clothes to be worn by tbeir successors. (Applause and laughter.) The question of administration was a most important one, and any changes brought against it to depose it from office ought to be of a very serious character. Of the charges that had actually been brought most of them were of a vague and trumpery character—changes such as had no donbt been picked up from the man in the street. He ‘ would not go into the questions which related to the action of individual Ministers, but he would say a few words on' the native policy. What’was the charge of Sir W. Fox with regard to the King party? It was that the Premier and Mr. Sheehan had gone to that meeting without a proper invitation. At the first meeting nothing definite was arranged, and the inhering \yas adjourned for a year. Therefore, whether the Government received an juvitation to ■ that meeting or not they were bound to be present to learn what it was proposed to do. What was there culpable in that ? They had the interests of the people of New Zealand heart, and did their best to advance their interests ; and it was perfectly ridiculous to attempt to cast any blame on the Premier because he might happen to be abused by any of the natives who had been present at that meeting. What had been the result of that

, meeting? (Hear, hear.) Why, that the • King and his party had been quiet and peace- - able. (Laughter.) Rewi had also declared , that be was the ally of the English, and was this not a great fact ? (Hear, hear.) These facts were attributed to the ability of those of the Ministry who had brought them about. ' Jn what way could they connect the acts of the present Government with the action of Sir I George Grey as Governor, either acting on his own behalf or under the advice of his responsible advisers ? If the Government was in fault in having ordered the survey of the Waimate Plains, it was the fault of previous Governments. (Hear, hear.) And what was their course when the crisis occurred ? It was one which had received the general approval of the country. (No, no.) He would repeat the observation. They had put the district in a state of defence, and had captured hundreds of fighting men without bloodshed. Was that not a great result? Whatever Government might occupy those benches must be very careful in the pre ent crisis or they would plunge the country lato a state of civil war. (“ Why they are ploughing ■ now.”) Even if they were doing so they could be apprehended in a quiet, peaceable, and lawful manner. Looking at the results of the native policy of that island, it must have the approval of that House and the country. (Hear, hear, and no.) The amendment was conceived in a captious spirit, and was based on the vaguest of evidence. He did not think the House should, under such circumstances, think of carrying the amendment, and turning outthe Ministry from the Government benches. The Ministry left the matter to the House with confidence. Sir William Fox had said he regretted to see (Mr. Gisborne) a member of the Government. For bis own part be could only reply that he was very sorry to see his hon. friend a member of the Opposition. (Hear, hear.) He might claim that he had at all events been actuated by conscientious motives. He had never said one thing to his constituents and another to that House, but had always done his best to serve the interests of the country. He failed to see on the other side of the House any policy or any party. He described the circumstances under which he had joined the Ministry, and said he should do his best to support the policy which they enunciated. (Cheers.) On resuming at half-past seven, Mr. SAUNDERS rose to speak against the Government. Under the existing circumstances, the Opposition had no chance in attacking a policy which was one thing in profession and another in action. Under these circumstances, they could only point out the faults of the present Government. The country could no longer pay attention to a ring which had given such a misleading ring throughout New Zealand. Hitherto he (the speaker) had not spoken on native affairs in that House. He did not profess to go elaborately into this question, but he could see what had been the effect of the native policy of the present Government, who had assured the House that friendly relations had been at last restored. It only appeared to the onlooker that if left alone the native difficulty would have solved itself in a very short time. And it was the interference of the Government which had brought the present mischievous state of things about. (No, no, and Hear, hear.) Mr. Gisborne bad asked what the Government had done in the ploughing matter. Well, he would tell the hon. gentleman that they had done nothing. (Cheers.) They had been told that the charges brought against the Government were untrue, trivial, and unsupported. If . that was so, there would be very tew things that would ever be supported in that House. He had been told by a certain settler, “ I don’t think much of Sir George Grey, but I don’t know of anybody else who could have got us a railway in spite of the Parliament.” (Laughter and cries of no.) If the Government had stood upon the - Triennial Parliament Bill, it would, he believed have influenced fully ten votes. (No.) They had been told that the Electoral Bill would give -a largely increased franchise to the country, and yet through the action of Sir George Grey that Bill was not now law. (Cheers.) That Bill was to have given votes to 70,000 of the pith and marrow of the country. (Laughter.) With regard to the Bribery Bill, the Government took the first opportunity of withdrawing it from before the House. So far as he had been able to see there were a few Conservative members in that House, and if he were asked to pick them out, he should first mention the Hon. Mr. Gisborne, who spoke one-half to that House and the other half to his constituents. But it would be necessary for him to speak yet on three sides. (Laughter.) He had now heard more than half a dozen speeches of the hon. the Premier, and it seemed to him that they were all the same—a little bit being put on here, and a little bit.taken off there. (Applause.) It was a remarkable thing that in bis last speech he had not attempted to defend either himself or the ■ Government from the charges brought against him. He had gone over a good deal of the matter dealt with him in his speech on Canterbury, about the squatters and the gridiron system; but of the nearer and more direct charges he had said little or nothing. He had told them that he had never written any anonymous letters against Sir William Fox. Well, if the Premier did not send such letters himself he had a series of “ whipping ” establishments at which such letters could be worked up. (Cheers and loud cries of “ No.”) There were various grades in the culprits requiring punishment of various degrees, and they received the punishment in various parts of the colony according to the enormity of their* offences. So that perhaps it would have been as well if the Premier had left out those remarks about anonymous letters. (Applause.) He was glad to say that the strong animosities which used to prevail had now toned down, and appeared to be gone for ever. (Applause.) He hoped, however, that when they found they had one common enemy in the country they would combine together to drive them out. (Who is the common enemy ?) He considered that the Government benches might be occupied by honest, . capable, and conscientious men. (Cheers.) The Premier by holding one class up against the other on the floor of that House was doing an injury which it would be very difficult to repair. (Cheers.) Mr. BEES spoke on behalf of the Government. He could not compliment the speaker who had just sat down. There were men who attached themselves to those who were greater than themselves, and who, having by this means crept into Parliament, were the first to turn round upon their friend and stab him assassin-like in the back. If the hon. member had not told them that he was an old man he should have felt inclined to have spoken his mind more freely than he intended to do. The hon. member for the Cheviot, while confessing himself as an advocate of certain liberal measures, was prepared to put his heel upon those who were bringing such measures forward. The present was the first time that so many good measures were being introduced into the House. (Hear, hear.) The attacks that had been made upon the Government were of a most trivial character, and were in ntter bad taste. (Hear, hear.) The very same men who had voted against liberal land laws and other good measures now passed by the principles, and seemed bent on turning the Ministry out. The attack of the leader, of the Opposition was one which the Government could not be called upon to meet, it was of so vague a character, with the exception of the question of native affairs. That was a very different thing, and if the statement of the hon. member for Wanganui could bo proved, no doubt the Government were deserving of the censure of the House. The speech of that gentleman, however, had been of a most malignant character throughout. In a public letter he bad stated that be had nothing to do with confiscation. [Sir W. Fox : I never stated so.] Then somebody else had said so for him. [Mr. Bees here read a part of the letter in question, and Sir W. Fox asked him to read the whole of it. Mr. Bees said it was three or four columns long, but he would read part of it. It stated that Sir W. Fox had nothing to do with confiscation, hut that Sir George Grey and his Government were responsible for it.] Mr. Bees contended that the Hon. W. Fox would have seized whole blocks of native lands, and driven off the tribes—men, women, and children. (Applause.) And because Sir G. Grey would not agree to such a policy the hon. member for Wanganui said “ X am off,” and off - he went. Let him not disguise things in this way, but speak the truth, and not come forward to them with such shams. (Applause.) It was all very well for the hon. member to sit there twirling his eyeglass in his hand: but his conduct was such as to surprise the House. The natives had not been well used by previous G-overnments and Parliaments, who had been secured tbeir liberty by the original treaties. Mr. Bees here described the history of the country, particularly in reference to the natives, who when they found how the Government was acting, banded themselves together not to sell their lands to Europeans. The Waitara land question was one which he thought had not been fully appreciated, either in England or the colony. The Government had sent surveyors

. on to Kingi’s land, and insisted on taking it, ’ notwithstanding that this land had been ennired to them by the Waitaugi treaty. The ■ land was taken, and the next step was one .which was only paralleled by the massacre of Glencoe. The soldiers were sent to the place, burnt his church and his houses, shot his people, and drove . him off to the mountains. Those who considered this question would recognise it in all its deformity, and would cast the obloquy upon the Government of the day in the same way that the massacre of Glencoe reflected obloquy upon the English Government of that day. And yet, after a full inquiry into the matten, the land was given back. (No, no.) Hon. members might say “ No, no,” but he said yes, yes. And because Sir William Martin raised his voice against the action of the Government, he was persecuted cruelly. Then the Waikato war sprung up, and was the outcome of the Waitara business. The land was confiscated, which was the next step. But the very men who made the confiscation were afraid to carry out their proclamation, for they absolutely went to the natives and bought the land of them, and took deeds. The amount paid was £54,000. And these were the men who talked about the dignity of a Government. And’they did worse than that on the West Coast in 1860. Thehon. member described theaotionof the Government in connection with this matter The natives had been waiting and waiting and waiting for thirteen years for some of their land to be given back-—land that had been voluntarily ceded, in order,that titles might be given to them, which had never been done. He next referred to the native question in Hawke’s Bay, and the evidence taken before the commission, and said that perjury and bribery and forgery had taken place, and that there was no parallel in English history to what was then done by the Government in power, who had spoken of their action, forsooth, as a piece of smart finesse. Finesse, indeed ! Why, it was a disgrace to all concerned. But the,result had been, as far as it had gone, a perfect triumph for the present Ministry, but for whom we should most certainly have been plunged into a native war before this. Mr. Rees then spoke of the native meeting at which Sir George Grey was present, and to which special reference had been made by the leader of the Opposition. Mr. Hobbs, of Franklin, did not tell his constituents that the words used by the Maori had been put into his mouth by a white man. (Mr. Hobbs ; “ No.”) Was the hon. member for Franklin there ! If not how could he say no ? The country was full of such intrigue, which was ruin to the country. He said again that if it had not been for the present Ministry the country would have been plunged into bloodshed long ago. If it had not been for the action of his predecessors, certain things done by Sir George Grey in native matters need not have been done by him. Let them look at the West Coast, where 120 of the leading spirits were apprehended without bloodshed. But for the action of those predecessors, and the constant succession of broken promises these things would never have occurred. It was these broken promises that had brought them face to face with the Maori difficulty. He hoped a commission would be appointed in that House to enquire fully into the matter, so that the natives might see that, after all, they were determined to do that which was right and just. (Applause.) He deplored the unworthy sneers that had been made by the leader of the Opposition. In 1869 he had listened to a speech in that House with abhorrence —a speech made by the hon. member for Wanganui, who referred to Yon Tempsky and the other brave men, who were then lying dead with their leader, as “draggle-tailed soldiers.” And the whole of his speech was full of such coarse and unfeeling invective. The speaker read a passage from “The Pilgrim’s Progress,” descriptive of Christian’s trial, and compared it for malignity, bitterness, and cruelty to the constant accusations made against the hon. the Premier by the gentleman who bad grasped in an improper manner a piece of ribbon, for the reason that he should be respected through tho country as a “ Sir.” He considered the speech of the Government was in every respect an excellent one ; and the great principles contained in it had never been announced by any Government before. He had been asked why the Government had not brought all these things forward before. He would simply say it was the Opposition themselves who were to blame for it by the obstruction which they had cast in their way. He next referred to the question of the Governor having refused a dissolution of the House when applied to for it, and described it as a most unconstitutional proceeding, and referred to the Judges who had asserted their right to imprison any man without trial er warrant of any kind. The doctrine was infamous iu the extreme, for if the Judge could do it with one man, he could do it with twenty, and i£ with twenty, with a thousand. All a Judge had to say was take a man away and put him in gaol for life, and there was no appeal. Why, they would be slaves to submit to such tyranny. The obstruction of the Opposition had greatly injured the interests of the country, and had stopped the Loan and Imprest Bill, so that serious evils must ensue. The proposals contained in the Speech really went in the direction of the freedom and the liberty of the people. He would ask whether for the last twenty years a single Act now on the Statute Book had gone in that direction, independent perhaps of the question of education, charitable. aid, and one or two matters of a similar character. He went on to speak of the constitutional condition of various parts of. the world. The party to which he belonged were determined to carry out the programme that they had set forth—to attempt to form a great Constitution for the people ; and he maintained that they were doing it to the best of their ability.

Mr. JACKSON said that when he read the broad and liberal measures which had been set forth in his Excellency’s Speech—measures which he had-.himself -enunciated —and believing as he did that the Government were earnest in their wish to carry out those meatnres, he felt compelled to vote against the amendment of the hon. member for Wanganui. (Applause.) There were, however, one or two questions in connection with the conduct of the Government in reference to which he reserved to himself the right to speak when the proper time came. (Applause.)

After a pause, The Hon. Mr. THOMSON was a little astonished at the factious conduct of the Opposition, who seemed very unwilling to prove their case. (Hear, hear.) He was not going to say that the Government had done no wrong since they had been iu office, but, looking back on tbe last two years it was astonishing that so little fault could be found with their administration. (Hear, hear.) There could be no doubt that the Opposition were extremely anxious to get on to those benches, for they had even refused to allow an Imprest Supply Bill to be brought in. (Loud cries of “No, no.”) The consequence of that was that at the present time no contracts could be paid, and many men were suffering. (No, no.) And they would not let the Loan Bill be brought in. (Hear, hear.) He had thought it only right that they should therefore make a clean breast of the delinquiocies of the Government, He did not think they had made out a good case at all. Keferriug first to the question of advertising, the speaker said it was a very difficult matter to deal with. The action of the Government had had an advantage over the Opposition. Probably if the newspapers had all had advertisements, they would not have been so strong against the Government as they were. He noticed in the speech of the hon. member for Wanganui that the question of the Government advertising was conspicuous by its absence. The papers which supported the Government of Sir W. Fox received the largest amount of advertising. . The Wellington Independent of that day received more money for printing and advertising than any other paper in the colony, and if he got back into office there was no reason to suppose that his conduct would be different in the future from what it was in the past. The Opposition would do well not to refer to the administration of' the Public Works department. If the member for Wauganni had been in office daring the last twelve months, his district would not have been so well looked after as it had been by the present Ministry. There could be no doubt that the Premier was an able man, and exercised great influence upon all the men with whom he came in contact. He believed there were men of ability among the Opposition, but there was no one who stood prominently out as their leader. Sir Julius Vogel was a leading mind among them, but Sir W. Fox was not. It was said at the time he was Premier and Sir Julius Vogel Treasurer, that the latter was the real mind of the Cabinet, and, in fact, the head of the Cabinet. Sir W. Fox had talked a good deal about the Government eating humble pie. He would very much like to know how much of that pie Sir W. Fox ate from the hands of his colleague Sir Julius Vogel. The Government had been charged with unconstitutional conduct. (Hear, hear.) That so-called unconstitutional question wa» in connection with the Land Bill, and, strange to say, it was only mentioned twice last session. If the Government was to be turned but on that question they ought to have been turned out during

the last and not this session. The whole administration of the hon. member for Wanganui was one series of unconstitutional acts. He had entered into con’rant-; of a most unconstitutional character, particularly in connection with the San Francisco mail contract a contract involving a very large amount of money. And they must not suppose now that he was advancing in years that he would not be as unconstitutional in the future as he had been in the past. (Hear, hear.) In 1872 he was turned out of office on the ground of unsatisfactory administration, hia action now in trying to turn out his Ministry showed that history was repeating itself. (Laughter.) He should like to know what the country was to gain by the change. Had they any reason to believe that a new would manage things better 1 He did not think so. He had heard a great many speeches on the question of native administration. Ihe policy known as the sugar and blanket policy of Sir Donald McLean appeared to him to be the policy of the present Government. _ It was, in short, a policy of treating the natives with kindness. .He should very much to know what was the policy of the Opposition with regard to the native lands. He was free to admit that he himself thought Sir George Grey and Mr. Sheehan had gone too much among the natives, but had not Sir Donald McLean done so before them ? so that they were obliged to follow up his policy. If the Government had taken no action in the matter, who would have been the first to complain 1 Why, the very Opposition who now met them as obstructionists. . They had been told it was very wrong for the Government to visit Tawhiao. He did not think the hon. gentleman was very happy in his illustration of this subject. He would ask was the gentleman who would overreach the natives on the question of buying fish to be trusted to take the leading seat on the Government benches. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) He proceeded to speak of - native affairs on the West Coast at some length. The fanaticism of the natives of that coast had been going on for years, and was only now coming to a head. If the Opposition were in power could they cure the fanaticism of Te Whitil Would they have preferred that the taking of the hundred Maori prisoners should have been accompanied by bloodshed on both sides ? They now had peace with honor, but if they went to war they would have war with dishonor. And he believed that if the Opposition succeeded in getting on to those benches they would have war in Hew Zealand. This might suit some 'persons in the North, but it certainly would not any in the South Island. This was a matter of which all the members of that House, especially those belonging to the Middle Island, should be very careful about. The considerations ought to weigh with all the members of the House in throwing out this amendment of the hon. member for Wanganui. (Cheers.) Dr. HODGKINSON addressed the House, and said that the proper course to have taken in the matter of public works would have been to have furnished the railways proposed last year, and not have gone on with any others until they had accurately ascertained the condition of the colony. For his own part, he called the public works and borrowing policy a policy of gambling. Inasmuch, however, as they had seven years of this policy now they must submit to be taxed to meet their responsibilities. He was sorry that the Government proposed to impose what was called a progressive land tax, but ho hoped they would not proceed to that extremity. It was not so much the amount of the tax, but the principle involved. (Hear, hear.) In opposing such a system he considered he was acting as a friend to the democratic or popular party. So far as he understood the question tlm policy of the Government in regard to the native question appeared to him to have been exceedingly prudent. The amendment was one of those exhibitions which they would have brought forward from time to time so long as this party feeling existed. These scrambles for office were most contemptible, and led to great injury to the colony. He must confess that though he approved of the policy of the Government so far as it went, it was deficient in two principles—-one of which he would term the decay of their constitutional institutions. The abolition of the provinces rendered it impossible for the people to be thoroughly and properly represented. Members would simply sink into mere delegates, instead of being the pople’s representatives. One of the best guarantees of a member's integrity was that he should be independent. In the Government policy there was not the least allusion to this state of things. His own opinion was that there should be a -reconstruction of the intermediate bodies. He had always been a democrat in regard to politics; but a democrat and a demagogue were two very different things. Thd other subject which he thought had been neglected in the policy of the Government was the exceedingly dangerous state of the colonial finance. They were not likely to get much redress in this respect until they improved their representative institutions. From what he had read he believed that the Auckland members would this year ask for another half-a-million of money for railways, and he did not think the Government would dare to resist their demands. A great public works policy, combined with a bad representative system, could not but lead to evil results ; therefore any proposed ’ change for the better in this respect would secure his most hearty support. It seemed to him that the amendment was brought forward for the purpose of embarrassing the Government, and therefore at the present time of doing an injury to the colony. If they looked back for the last six or seven years they would find the floor strewn with the wrecks or sheer old hulks of their public men —hulks that were not fit to be put into commission again ; and such a sheer old hulk was Sir William Fox—who, from having been a gallant ship, had become a worm-eaten and useless vessel. (Applause.) He might also refer to other members in the same way. Personally he was in favor of an elective Governor, but he should not speak of that now. He also thought the salaries of the Ministers were far too high. They should be content with having the honor of serving their country, and should not expect to get an excessive rate of payment for their services. He regretted to see the centralistic flag raised so high while not a shred of the old federal one was to be seen. He could see no great question now before the country, as he believed that the measures which were now opposed by the Opposition, so far as they appeared in the Governor’s Speech, had on previous occasions been advocated by them. The hon. speaker spoke of his disgust, amazement, and indignation when he found that Sir William Fox, on hia return from England, had lowered his federal flag, and gone over to the other side. The proposed new leader was utterly destitute of character and backbone, and had shown that he was incapable of being a leader of any party. (Laughter.) With regard to the Opposition and their policy—indeed, they had no policy, but rather of profligacy. They had the effrontery to come before the House under the guise of a political party, and their conduct was utterly unpatriotic, when they knew the bad financial position which the colony was in at the present time they had taken the strongest course they could to ruin hundreds of settlers in the colony. To say the least of it, their conduct was pernicious and unscrupulous. (Hear, hear.) Dr. Hodgkinson referred to the teetotal addresses of the hon. member, and said that they at least did no harm if they did no good, while his present action in this matter had degraded the House. (No, no, and hear, hear.) It was, in his opinion, asy tern of bodysnatching. (Hear, hear.) The Opposition had the insufferable vanity and egotism to suppose that they could administer the affairs of the country—(laughter, and cries of "Oh.") In conclusion he had to say that had the Government or - the Opposition been of his opinion with regard to the affairs of the country they would have risen to the level of the situation. (Cheers.) Mr. TURNBULL moved the adjournment of the debate.

The Hon. Sir W. FOX said the delay was not with the Opposition, who did not oppose the Imprest Supply Bill, and who were prepared to go on with the debate then. The Hon. the Native Minister, however, wished the debate postponed until the following evening, in order that be might reply, and the Opposition would not therefore oppose the adjournment. Sir GEORGE GREY thought it was due to the Native Minister to have the right of reply as he had been so severely attacked. The motion was agreed to, and the House adjourned at twenty minutes to 12 o’clock.