PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIV, Issue 5711, 19 July 1879, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Friday, Jolt IS. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at half-pasv 2 o’clock. PETITIONS AND PAPERS. The Hon. Mr. CHAMBERLIN presented a petition from some natives in Hawke’s Bay, asking the Council to allow some of its members and officers to give evidence in the case against Mr. Kinross for perjury. The same gentleman also presented another petition! from natives asking an inquiry into land transactions in Hawke’s Bay. The Colonial Secretary laid several reports and papers on the table. informality. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE gave notice to move that it be referred to the Standing Orders Committee to consider whether or not the entry of their first day’s proceedings in the journals was informal. CATTLE TRESPASS BILL. The Hon. Mr. HALL asked the Colonial Secretary,—Whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce, during the present session, Bills to amend the law relating to road boards, fencing, aud cattle trespass t The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE sail, that considering the amount of other business to be dealt with, the Government did not see its way to move in the matter this session. PRIVILEGE. The Hon. Mr. ROBINSON drew attention to an article which had appeared in a Wellington newspaper, accusing members of running up scores at Bellamy's, and going away leaving them unpaid. The article also stated that Mr. Waterhouse had suggested that if honorable Councillors did not pay their debts the amounts should be stopped from the honorarium. He was sure Mr. Waterhouse had said nothing of the kind. The Hon. Colonel BRETT said no honorable member of that Chamber owed a farthing at Bellamy's. (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE said ha had not referred specifically to members of either House, but to members of Parliament generally. As a matter of fact, however, there was nothing to complain of with regard to any member of the Council. The Hon. Mr. SCOTLAND had also seen the article referred to, and was sorry that Mr. Robinson had taken notice of such a blackguardly thing. The subject dropped. ADJOURNMENT. The Hon. Colonel BRETT moved that the Council should adjourn from 3to 3.30. Lady Robinson was to hold a reception, and as nearly all hon. members were strangers to her ladyship, they were anxious to pay their respects at the earliest opportunity.—Agreed to. THE SPEAKERSHIP. Sir D. Bell obtained leave to read, at the request of Major Richmond, an extract from a letter by the Premier to the late Chairman of Committees, as follows : “I did not answer your letter about your being appointed President of the Legislative Council at an earlier date, because I wished when I wrote to you to be able to write with some degree of certainty, and inasmuch as you were the only applicant for the office, whilst I knew that several other persons were piobably very anxious to get it, although they said nothing. I did not desire to enter into a correspondence with anyone until I knew that I should in a short time set all doubts upon tho subject at rest. I well recollect old time's, and your many services to the State in days gone by. This, however, is a case in which one cannot give way to mere personal feelings, however strong these mSy be. There is a necessity in such an appointment to give assurance to the public that the Government intend to carry measures of a certain character, and to secure, if possible, existing laws to which they stand pledged, from being repealed or in any way .altered so that their force or main characteristics might be destroyed ; iu fact, this ia a case in which the public interests alone must be consulted, and I am, in fact, but a trustee of those interests, and must make my own feelings give way to them. Acting upon these principles, I fear that the choice of President must fall upon another person than yourself.” Sir D. BELL said after the denial by Colonel Whitmore on the previous day of the existence of any correspondence on the subject, he (the speaker) had advised Major Richmond to take the coarse he had iu order to exonerate himself. Major Richmond had written to the Premier asking for the Speakership, which he (Sir D. Bell) regretted, aud he characterised the tone of the Premier’s letter as subservient of constitutional principles. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE did not think the letter of the Premier would bear the

interpretation put upon it by the last .speaker. (Laughter.) It was a recognised rule in England that patronage should be bestowed upon political friends. He had on the previous day merely denied that there was any official correspondence in existence. (Oh, oh.) The Hon. Mr. HALL denied the last statement of the Colonial Secretary. After some discussion the subject dropped. POSTPONEMENTS. It being past four o’clock, some formal business —appointment of committees, motions, &c. —were postponed to next sitting. The second readings of the Habitual Drunkards Bill and the Deceased Intestates Bill were deferred till Tuesday. ADDRESS IN REPLY. The Hon. Mr. P. A. BUCKLEY'moved, — That the following Address in reply to the Speech of his Excellency the Governor, delivered at the opening of this session of Parliament, be adopted :—May it please your Excellency,—The Legislative Council desires to thank your Excellency for the Speech which you were pleased to deliver to both Houses of Parliament on the 15th inst. We assure your Excellency that the people of this colony appreciate the exertions you have made to visit so shortly after your arrival the principal centres of settlement, and that they recognise the interest you have shown in the colonial Industries, and in the welfare of the several communities. We can confidently assure your Excellency that the cordial welcome you have received, at such places as you hare already been able to visit, will be at all times equally evinced in all parts of the colony to you as her Majesty's representative. Your Excellency has been good enough to inform us that Bills on the following subjects will be submitted for our consideration —that is to say, Bills relating to the qualification of electors ; for amending the Counties Act, and giving borrowing powers to county councils ; for suspending the plurality of voting in local bodies ; for the management of hospitals; and for regulating the immigration of the Chinese. The Council regard with anxiety the information which your Excellency has been pleased to give us relative to native affairs on the West Coast, and we are glad to receive your assurance that the necessary steps have been taken to secure the peace of that district ; on the other hand, it is gratifying to leam from your Excellency that “ generally speaking the behavior of the native people has been loyal and peaceful.” We are gratified to learn from your Excellency that the railways which have been constructed under the authority of Parliament have proved so beneficial to the colony, and yield so considerable a revenue. Wo assure your Excellency that onr best attention will be given to these very important subjects, and to all other measures that may be submitted to us ; and we trust that our exertions, under the direction of Divine Providence, may tend to the peace and prosperity of both races in the colony.— The hon. mover said he had the high honor of being permitted to move the Address in Reply to his Excellency’s opening address. He was sure every hon. member of the Council would warmly reciprocate the kindly feelings with which his Excellency met them. He was glad to see by the enumer .tion of Bills that were to be introduced that they were all in the direction of carrying out the great Liberal policy which had been enunciated, and which had been received with favor by the country. He was glad to«see as every hon. member must be, that despite the universal depression which had prevailed, the revenue had been considerably in excess of the Estimates. The speaker treated briefly on the several Bills alluded to in the Speech, and believed they would ailjbe acceptable to the Council. With regarj to the native disturbance on the West Coast, he considered that unsatisfactory state of affairs was due in a great measure to the bad legislation of former years bearing upon the Maoris. He considered if at the time of the last war Colonel Whitmore had followed out the war policy m the disturbed districts which he wished, we should have been saved years of anxiety and trouble. There would never be a satisfactory state of matters in connection with the Maoris until daylight was let into the Native Office, and the jugglery that had for years been carnedon in that Department was done away with. He considered that it was most fortunate for the colony that a gentleman who been its Governor and the Governor of other colonies should have come from his retirement to endeavor by all means in his power to promote the re-estab-lishment of friendly relations between the two

races. He (the speaker) had intended to touch at greater length on several matters, but the discussion which had just taken place on another subject had somewhat disturbed his notions on those matters, and he would therefore conclude by moving the motion. The Hon. F. DIGNAN seconded the motion.

The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE was delighted to hear the enthusiasm with which his hon. friend the mover still regarded the great Liberal policy. He (Mr. Waterhouse) had expected that the speech would have touched on the late changes in the Ministry, and would have congratulated the colony on its possession “at last” of a thoroughly homogeneous Ministry, actuated by one impulse, and guided by one great principle. We had, for instance a Government the chief of which could say to one of his colleagues, “X)o this,”'and he doeth it; and to another, “ Come hither,” and he cometh; and to the Ministry generally, “ Fall down a: worship me,” and they fall down and worship him. There was a most wonderful contrast between the reference to native matters this year compared to that of last session. (Laughter.) We were not told this year that “ at last” peaceful relations are established, but that thero is a probability of war. We were told that negotiations with the Waikatos were now suspended, whereas last year we were not told of negotiations in progress, but of transactions actually accomplished. The state of native matters had been gradually improving for years, until the accession of the present Ministry, and since then they had retrograded. The now thoroughly unsatisfactory state of affairs was wholly due to the utter incompetence of the present occupants of the Ministerial benches. Their treatment of the Waimate Plains question had been most rash and heedless. The speaker related the history of the confiscation, and of subsequent events in connection with the plains, to show that the action of the Government in claiming and surveying the whole of the land was most unjustifiable towards the natives. The Government had committed a downright infraction of justice, and this was all the more glaring as it was during the Governorship of Sir G. Grey that the confiscation occurred, and the Premier was thoroughly acquainted with the whole of the circumstances. He considered that the natives were justified in going on the plains and pulling up the pegs. It was the only way they had to assert a right they were convinced was theirs. He, however, could not excuse the natives for entering upon lands over which the native title had been wholly extinguished; but they had been taught that procedure by the Native Minister himself in former years. He paid all honor to the settlers for their action, and considered it a striking condemnation of the Government. He ridiculed the Government for calling together a Maori Parliament. That Maori Parliament was the greatest mistake that could be made, and was only calculated to create disturbance and dissension. He also strongly blamed the Government for their interfering with the course of law regarding the native at Napier who had attempted to upset a railway train. He also censured the Government for their action concerning Majors Mair and Jackson. Rewi himself had said that the good relations existing was due more to those two gentlemen than to the Ministry. He compared the lenient and forbearing way in which the Opposition treated the present Government with the unscrupulous manner in which the members of the Ministry had treated the late Government in regard to native affairs. It Was absolutely necessary that they should settle the native difficulty once for all, and the Native Office should be entirely remoddelled, for it existed now in a form utterly unknown to the constitution, being based upon a system of personal rule. There would be no proper and satisfactory condition of matters until that system was entirely abolished. He considered the Speech merely a flag of distress run up to the masthead to attract attention, but it was by their utter incompetence, as so often exemplified, that the Ministry would be judged by the public. The speaker alluded to the continuation of abuses which the Government had condemned while in Opposition, to their financial bungling, to the promotion of political friends at the expense of the Civil Service, and other matters, and resumed his seat amidst loud applause. Debate adjourned.

The Council adjourned at 5.30 to 2.30 on Tuesday. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Friday, July 18. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. GENERAL. A number of petitions were presented, notices of motions given, and papers laid on the table. TIMBER AND FLOUR. Mr. JOHNSTON asked the Commissioner of Customs, —The quantities of timber and flour imported into the colony during each of the two last financial years ? Sir GEORGE GREY laid papers on the table containing the whole of the information asked for. NATIVE LANDS IN TARANAKI. Mr. CARRINGTON asked the Government, —If it be true that certain reserves of land were promised to be made and given to the natives within the confiscated boundaries of the provincial district of Taranaki ; and, if so, when the promise was made, and under what authority; also, if such promise was made, why it has not been carried out ? The mover said he had been induced to bring forward the resolution in consequence of remarks he had heard since his arrival in Wellington. He had no wish to take up the time of the House—(hear, hear) —but would briefly refer te one or two matters. He would go to the point at once. In the,year 1811 he was deputed to visit a number of places on the East Coast. Mr. WAKEFIELD rose to a point of order. Would hon. members have an opportunity of speaking to this question ? Because, if not, he did not think Mr. Carrington should himself make a speech and state facts that might be open to contradiction. The SPEAKER did not think the hon. member had exceeded the limits allowed to members who had questions to ask. Mr. CARRINGTON thought the hon. member for Geraldine rather premature in his remarks. He would, however, cut the matter short by saying that the natives of Taranaki owed everything to the settlers of that province. They never could have returned to their lands without their assistance. The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN, in reply, was understood to say that the present Government, on entering office, had found that up to that time, from the year 1866, a number of promises made by the Government had remained unfulfilled. REMUNERATION OF VOLUNTEERS. Mr. CARRINGTON asked the Government, —What are their intentions in regard to remuneration or pay to be given to Volunteers (during the unsettled state of native affairs on the West Coast of this island) for loss of time, unavoidable neglect of their farms, and expenses incurred, consequent on attending to those duties which require their time and serThe Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied that the Government hoped to be able to give such Volunteers work upon portions of the public works of the colony which would be undertaken in the disturbed districts. RECLAIMED LAND IN WELLINGTON. Mr. STEVENS asked the Minister of Lands, —What extent of the Wellington reclaimed land has Been sold during the recess ; the price obtained ; whether any of the land was sold by auction, and if so, what rate of commission was paid to the auctioneer ; and whether any instalments due in respect of the land sold are in arrear ?

The Hon. Mr. THOMSON replied that the extent of reclaimed land sold during the recess was 3 acres 1 rood and 13 J poles; the price which the land realised was £83,172 165.; all the land was sold by auction, as required by the Financial Arrangements Act of last session ; the rate of commission paid was 1 per cent.; and there were no instalments due and ho arrears. (Hear, hear.) CONSOLIDATED STOCK. Mr. STEVENS asked the Colonial Treasurer,—To what extent, if any, the holders of consolidated stock have, during the past financial year, availed themselves of the provisions of the Consolidated Stock Act, 1877. Sir GEORGE GREY was understood to say that the holders of stock had not in any case availed themselves of the Act in question. HOTEL ACCOMMODATION FOR TAKAMOANA. Mr. SUTTON asked the Native Minister, — Out of what vote of this House it is proposed to pay the sum of £45 or thereabouts, for hotel accommodation at -Napier supplied to the late member, Mr. Takamoana, after the close of last session. The Hon, Mr. SHEEHAN, who was almost inaudible in the reporters’ gallery, was understood to say that the amount would come out of private funds. NATIVE OBSTRUCTIONS. Mr. SUTTON asked the Native Minister, — If he will lay before this House copy of a letter from the Chairman of the Okawa Road Board, in reference to the refusal of certain,

natives to allow a road to be made through certain lands over which the native title has been extinguished; also a copy of his reply thereto, if any. Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN said that all the papers on the subject would be Idd upon the table. THE WELLINGTON-WOODVILLE RAILWAY. Mr. EEKTHAM asked the Minister for Public AVorks, —When the Wellington-Wood-ville railway will be completed as far as Masterton. The Hon. Mr. MAO ANDRE AV replied that the contract time for constructing the line closed on the 22nd of March next, and the Government were in hopes that it would be finished by that date. THE AUCKLAND IMPROVEMENT COMMISSIONERS.

Mr. MOSS asked the Government, —If they will lay before the House a return, showing the expenditure of the Auckland Improvement Commissioners on streets, roads, and footpaths on the. reserve for a public park, and on all other purposes ; also the amount of the debt of the Commissioners, their revenue and expenditure to the present time ; with a plan of the endowment, showing the sections leased and unleased ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN said there would be no objection to giving this information, subject ta the Government getting it from the Commissioners. THE MUSEUMS. "5Mr. MOSS asked the Government, —If they will lay before this House a return showing the expenditure of public money on each of the museums in the colony, and the endowments and revenue of the same ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied in the affirmative. THE PARCEL POST. Captain RUSSELL asked the PostmasterGeneral, —If he will lay before this House all correspondence, and any information which he has obtained, on the subject of a “ Parcel post.” Sir GEORGE GREY replied in the affirmative. NEW BILLS. Leave was given to introduce a number of Bills. ORDERS OF THE DAT. The second reading of Native Land Duties Act Amendment Bill and the Taonui Ahuaturanga Laud Bill was postponed until Tuesday next. THE INTRODUCTION OP OONTIOT3 PREVENTION BILL. Sir GEORGE GREY moved the second reading of this Bill, and in doing so referred to the number of convicts released each year from the French convict settlements. These never returned to France, and, indeed, it was made a condition of their release that they should not do so. The Premier went on to speak of the way in which the French had increased their possessions in the Pacific, and made special reference to France ao i airing New Caledonia prior to the Crimean War. Convicts were now constantly being set at large from these islands, and could easily find their way to New Zealand. He thought it was only just, on the part of the Government, to deal with the convicts of France in the same way that the convicts of England and other European countries were dealt with. He, therefore, hoped the House would allow the second reading. Mr. WHITAKER asked if there was any precedent for the Bill. Sir GEORGE GREY replied that the Bill had been acted upon elsewhere. Captain BUSSELL thought this was not a Bill that should be hurriedly rushed through. He hoped that some of the legal members of the House would give their opinion as to whether such a Bill would not take away the power from political refugees to shelter themselves in New Zealand in the way that they did at present.

Major ATKINSON would not oppose the Bill going into committee, but would reserve to himself the right to deal with it when Sir GEORGE GREY said he would be very glad to see any alterations made in the Bill that were satisfactory to members. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed in a fortnight. STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE. Mr. SEYMOUR moved that a Standing Orders Committee be appointed, to consist of the Speaker and Messrs. Barton, Outten, Gisborne, Hart, Hislop, Richmond, and the mover, three to be a quorum. The motion was agreed to. PRIVATE BILLS. Mr. SEYMOUR moved that Mr. Brandon, Mr. Montgomery, and the mover, be nominated members of the Standing Orders Committee on Private Bills. The motion was carried without dissent. JOINT COMMITTEE ON BILLS. Mr. SEYMOUR moved that Mr. Brandon, Mr. Acton Adams, and the mover, be nominated members of the Joint Committee on BiUs. The motion was agreed to. COMMITTEE OF SELECTION. Mr. SEYMOUR moved that Mr. Brandon, Mr. Moss, Mr. Murray-Aynsley, Mr. Green, and the mover, be nominated members of the Committee of Selection. The motion was agreed te. AGRICULTURAL LEASES ON GOLDFIELDS. - The Hon, Mr. GISBORNE moved'that the regulations relating to agricultural leases upon goldfields be referred to the Goldfields Committee. The motion was agreed to. MILES OP RAILWAY OPEN FOB TRAFFIC. Mr. Mo MINN moved, —That a return be laid before this House showing: (1) The number of miles of railway which have been opened for traffic during the past financial year ; (2) the number of miles which have been under contract, but not completed, during the same period ; (3) the number of miles which have been contracted for during the same period ; specifying in each case the localities of each section, and the cost or approximate cost of the same. The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW said the whole of the information would be embodied in the Public Works Statement. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. SHANKS moved that a respectful Address be presented to his Excellency in reply to the Speech which his Excellency had been pleased to make to both Houses. Sir GEORGE GREY moved that the House adjourn until half-past seven o’clock in the evening, in order that the motion of Mr. Shanks might be then discussed. The motion was agreed to, and the House adjourned at 3.25. Evening Sitting.

On resuming at 7.30, Mr. SHANKS moved the motion o£ which he had given notice, —That a respectful Address be presented to his Excelllenoy in reply to the Speech which his Excellency has been pleased to make to both Houses.—ln rising to move the resolution Mr. Shanks was received with loud applause. It was stated to him that it was necessary to move the Address on Wednesday, but he afterwards so shaped the motion that it should come off that day. He was sorry that he should have done anything that might lead to any evil result to the colony. The Premier had tried to obviate the difficulty which might result from this course, but had not been successful, owing to the obstructive stand taken by a portion of the House. He had very great pleasure in moving the Address. He was sure they would all be pleased that his Excellency should have formed such an impression as he had done of the capabilities of this country, and was also glad to hear that he had been so well received throughout the entire colony. (Cheers.) It must be acknowledged by all that a more just distribution of taxation was required, both by the natives and the Europeans. The next question, that of fanaticism among the natives of the West Coast, was not of so satisfactory a character. He was glad to see that the Government were determined that no native war should ever take place—the Maoris must be shown that it was absolutely necessary that they should obey the law as well as the white man. It was satisfactory to know that under any circumstances the Government had taken such measures as to protect life and property. (Hear, hear.) The fault of the present troubles arose from the action of the Government in power from the year 1861 to 1867. He hoped the House would investigate the claims of the natives, so that if a war did take place they might feel that they were in the right. It was a pleasing thing to know that the actual revenue had exceeded the estimated revenue. It was only right for that House to express its satisfaction at the prudence and epergy of Sir George Grey in the management of native affairs. He had seen the returns of the railways for the last two years, and found that for the last year they had increased by £60,000. With regard to- the loan, there was no doubt the money lenders at Home would advance the sum required without difficulty. In reference to the matter of the counties and road boards, he was glad to find that it was proposed to make it compulsory on those bodies to prepare the electoral rolls, for up to the present time many of the settlers had been disfranchised. The House would no doubt congratulate Ministers on the preparedness with which they had met the House, (Cheers.)

I In conclusion, he might suggest that in view of the several urgent measures which the Government proposed to introduce, it would be well for the House not to throw any unnecessary obstruction in their way. (Cheers.) Mr. Shanks then moved a list of the committee he proposed to draw up the address. Mr. REEVES seconded the motion, and said the policy of the Government was one of which the country must approve. (Cheers.) He should not speak at length on the subject, but would content himself with seconding the motion of the hon. member for Mataura.

Sir WILLIAM FOX, who was well received, rose, and congratulated the two hon. members for the manner in which they had performed their no doubt very painful duty. (Laughter.) He had an amendment to propose—(Cheers)—but he was not going to speak on the measures of the Government. They knew a great deal about those measures, because they were before the House last year, and before the country during the stumping tour of the Premier. Many of those measures would have been passed but for the capricious will of the Premier, who might have given their rights and liberty to 70,000 degraded serfs. (Cheers.) And yet it was proposed to bring forward a similar excellent measure this year ; and the same might be said of the Bribery Bill, which was an old friend under a new face. He would not discuss this question of policy, but he could not understand the action of the Government. They had no doubt a very fine programme, but they did not carry it out. The fact of the matter was that the funeral baked meats of last session were to furnish forth the marriage feast for this. It-re-minded him very much of the fair which they had all seen so many times, and their showman was willing to take as much as he could get, so far as the standing orders of the House would allow him. But it was a very serious matter. The colony was standing upon a precipice, and it was necessary that they should look well to their Ministry. The Premier himself had told them they were upon the imminence of a Maori war.

Mr. JOYCE rose to a point of order. He was of opinion that Sir W. Fox was out «f order. It was for them to say simply whether a respectful or a disrespectful address should be forwarded to his Excellency. (Oh, and cheers.) The first thing to be done by the House would have been to have passed the motion, and then if necessary to have opposed the names of the committee proposed by the mover.

The SPEAKER thought Mr. Joyce was himself out of order.

After a few more remarks Mr. Joyce sat down.

The SPEAKER ruled that Sir W. Fox was quite in order. The hon. member for Wanganui continued ; He stood there to arraign the Government on a variety of charges, incapacity, unconstitutional conduct, and others, but he had no intention then of entering fully into them. No time must be lost if they wished to secure the prosperity of the country, and placing other men upon the Government benches. (Cheers and counter cheers.) What had the Government done ? Why, nothing that they had promised. They had passed a Land Tax Bill, and a Bill to give some extra advantages to Maori children. And yet they had no Opposition last'session, and the consequence was that they had brought down the same bill of fare this session, and he had no hesitation in saying that if they remained in office the result would b s a the same. In the matter of railways they had*promised them all over the country, and at their promises they had stayed. Failure and incompetence had characterised their management of the native race and many other questions. (Cheers.) And they had set aside in many instances the constitutional rights of the people. He would refer to the Waste Lauds Bill, which had quietly been kept back from the Marquis of Normanby like a card that had been shuffled for certain purposes. That Bill was not the property of the Premier, but of the people, and the action of Sir George Grey in keeping it back was a fraud. (Cheers and laughter.) He next referred to the Tapanui railway, which was entered upon in an extravagant way, without any authority from the Parliament (cheers and cries of No), and not only that —but he had repeated the same thing up North. He referred to the Thames and Waikato railway, which was to rim 30 miles for a sum of £IBO,OOO. What did the hon. member for the Government do ? Why, wishing to conciliate his constituents he had commenced the railway at the wrong end, turning the sod with great eclat. He had no more right to make that railway than he (the speaker) had to make a railway through the island of Kawau. The House authorised the railway to be made from Hamilton to Te Aroha, and not commenced at the other end at Grahamstown. What then became of the constitutional rights of the House over the purse strings. The speaker next referred to Sir George’s attempt to rush the Address in Reply through the House. The emergency which was said to exist—and which he did not believe did exist—must have been known to the Government a long time ago. (Cheers.) What then ought to have been the duty of the Government ? Why, to call the House together ; instead of which he waited till the last minute, when the steamer was coming in, and then came to them and asked them to raise a loan of £5,000,000 at a minute’s notice. (Cheers.) He was getting more autocratic every day. (The speaker here claimed the protection of the chair against the interruptions of one of the hon. members.) He could not possibly conceive anything more unconstitutional than to make the appointment of Speaker with the view of getting certain favor from the gentleman holding the appointment ; and yet he had heard rumors on this subject, although the hon. Speaker was far too well known for them to suppose for a single moment that he would have anything to da with such a scheme. (Cheers.) Then, again, the way in which the Cabinet Council meetings were held was most unconstitutional. Sir George Grey was to be the father of bis people. All he could said was what a nice family they woujd be. (Cheers and laughter.) Another charge he would bring against the Government was the disorganisation of the public service. Why men who had been for years in the service had been swept away without compensation, and boys put in their place. The result of this was that the service was now becoming a scoff and a byword, and the energetic young men of the country would not now enter it. He referred to two or three special cases. The postmaster and telegraphist of Wanganui was a most efficient servant, aad a man of the highest personal character. But the post was wanted to reward political services, andjthe postmaster was disrated to an inferior position for this political friend to take his place. A similar thing happened at the same place in connection with the public service to a man who had gone through thrilling scenes on behalf of the country. A charge was got up against that gentleman on the strength of a scurrilous little newspaper published in the district. An investigation was held, and the charge dismissed. But afterwards on a certain gentleman joining the Ministry Mr. Booth was suspended, and a commission was appointed, who acquitted him of every particle of the charge. And so the public service deteriorated. During his suspension certain practices had taken place which resulted in a block of land costing the country £140,000 more than it need have done had Mr. Booth not been suspended. And when he was acquitted he had no recompense—no compensation. He would next refer to the case of Mr. Luckie, who was perfectly competent to fill the almost sinecure office which he held, and draw the very handsome salary which he did. He had nothing to say against Mr. Luckie, except that he had never before been in the Government service. He said there were hundreds of men who were better entitled to the promotion than Mr. Luckie. (Hear, hear.) But they must remember that Mr, Luckie bad the command of a newspaper which had a very considerable influence on the people. And the Ministry were also demoralised. “Like master like man.’’ There had been a good many scandals which now, unfortunately, had turned out to be too true. Another disgraceful thing took place the other day, when the Premier had rung for a messenger and ordered him to drag one of his Ministers out by the scruff of the neck. (Cheers and laughter.) In the first place, he had invited the member into his room—it was a case of “ the spider and the fly”—and had then succeeded in picking the quarrel, which he had, no doubt, been thinking over for nights and days. The speaker described the scene, and said that Sir George had told the Minister that he had insulted him grossly, and made him blush, (Laughter.) He should like to see thetman who, for the last fifty years, had made him blush, not but that there were many things which he ought to blush for. (Loud laughter.) Let them picture the scene to themselves if they could. Mr. JOYCE then rose to a point of order, amid cries of order. Might he be allowed to ask the hon. member. (Order, order.) The SPEAKER ruled that Sir William Fox was not out of order. Mr. JOYCE wished to explain. Was the hon. member speaking of what he had heard or read ?

The SPEAKER again ruled that the hon. member for Wanganui wns not ont of order. Sir W. FOX continued to uv.-.a.e the particulars of the scene between the Colonial Treasurer and the Premier. A few days after this there appeared an article in the Auckland Herald, which must have been written by a member, and which might almost be called the Premier’s defence. The hon. speaker detailed the facts as contained in the article referred to. Certain things that had occurred were said to have provoked the wrath of Sir Georo-e Grey. It seemed that the latter had ordered one of his Ministers to return at once from a certain place, and that he had done so in no very good humor. After his return he received a good “ dressing down”—whatever that might mean. He was not aware whether they kept Ministerial birches in the Cabinet, or whether the hon. Treasurer was dragged about the room by the messenger. If this sort of thing was to be allowed, it would result in every naan having to carry a pistol or a bowie knife. (Cheers and laughter.) Was not this a disgraceful scene ? and one that would bring the Ministry into disrepute over the whole colony. And they must not suppose this was a solitary case. He had no doubt they had a dish of humble pie served up every morning. Ho wonder it was hard to get a gentleman to join the Ministry when he might be treated with such ignominy and such contempt. (Cheers.) He would next refer_ to the miserable mismanagement of native affairs. (Cheers.) There never was a Ministry with such a bad prospect before it on the native question as this one. When the Ministry went into office the little difficulty with the natives might soon have been settled with careful management. He detailed the state of Maori affairs during the ten years previous to the present Ministry taking office. The natives lived quietly, never interfered with the Europeans, and gave us no trouble. It was felt that the best policy was to leave them alone, and they would gradually come in. The worst thing they could have done was to hurry them, or try to curry favor with them. Nothing was to be gained from the King party, and the Government had made a great mistake in making love to them in the way they had done, and what had come of it ? The Premier had been up to his old games for the purpose of making political capital. He had bowed down to the very dust before them —they had held great gatherings ; more nonsense and tomfoolery had been enacted than he had listened to in his lifetime, —(No, no) —and what had come of it ? Why, absolutely nothing ; and yet a paper had been stuck in the Governor’s hand, saying that at last peace had been made. The penny-a-lining scribes who had accompanied the Premier had done their best to cast a halo of success upon the affair, but had not been able to do so. Many dodges had been tried with the natives, but they would not do, and when March arrived the invited guests came and crawled in on all-fours. (No.) And then they knew what followed—Eewi would have nothing to do with .them or their doings. (Cheers.) He did not know anything more striking than the description of the last scene, ■ where the King came and sat opposite the hon. gentleman who was now leaving the House (Sir George Grey). What had he said ?—“ I, Tawhiao, am the King of all these lands, and will have nothing to do with that man Grey—there he sits now.” And this was the result of that great programme which set forth what these two great Maori-tamers were about to do, but which, it is now well known, they did not do. He (the speaker) had read a letter to the House last session from a Maori chieftain, and he would do so again now. (Letter read. It was in reference to what the writer called the “ deceitfulness of Sir George Grey.”) And the natives who had been interviewed by Sir George lately were also able to see through him. The whole thing had been a miserable failure. He could not understand how they could deceive themselves in the way they did. Why, one of the leading natives the other day had called him a dog that licks blood ; and another had compared him to a rat-pit, saying “ If you fail in you cannot get out.” The power of these two great Maoritamers had almost lauded them on the brink of a war. He would now say a word with regard to the Waimate natives, where they had acted with equal rashness. They had attempted to takeoneof themost valuablepieoesof country in New Zealand without allowing the natives a single reserve. They must have known there were such reserves if they ever read the blue-books. And he was prepared to say that they did know all about it. He knew that a deputation had come in to see the Government, and had told him (the speaker) that they would not grumble if they had the reserves. And the Government afterwards promised them the reserves, but did not carry out their promise. If the Government had kept their word there would have been no trouble whatever about the Waimate Plains. The Government had gone and surveyed the land, even going over the gardens, and this without setting aside a single acre for native reserves. Was it not a humiliation that Sir George had been called a thief by Te Whiti, who had in the same breath told him that Hiroki was an honest man ? The Government had shown the grossest mismanagement in the conduct of native affairs. During the last two years they had lost caste in the eyes of the Maoris to an extent which it would be most difficult to regain. (Cheers.) It was said the other day by the member for Eranklyn that the Native Minister should be a man of moral character. He should say nothing more on that subject, except that it was impossible to go through the Maori country and hear the progress of the Government through the country without being made to blush. The country was ringing from end to end with scandalous stories in the direction to which he had alluded. No wonder the Maoris were discontented. (Hear, hear.) • He had touched the main points, but could heap up counts upon counts more. Alluding to the West Coast, where war was imminent, it was well known that when the people had telegraphed through him for arms, to the Minister of Defence, he received a reply in the course of a week. And that telegram stated that if Mr. Commissioner Brown wanted any legal advice, he could apply for it to Wellington. The Premier, with all his sympathies for the world, had none with the people living at bis own door. His conduct was heartless in the extreme. He saw the Hon. the Minister for Public Works smiling, but he was too goodhearted a man to laugh if he knew half the sufferings the people had been put to through the conduct of Sir George Grey. The Government had admirably shown them “ how not to do it,” and it was quite time the reins of government were taken from them* and placed in the hands of those who would better look after the security and the welfare of the colony. (Loud cheers.) As an amendment he proposed to add the following words to the Address : —“ In conclusion, we respectfully submit to Parliament that in order to secure satisfactory results to the deliberations of Parliament, and to facilitate the proper discharge of the functions of Government, his Excellency’s advisers should possess the confidence of this House, and we deem it our duty to represent to his Excellency that in the opinion of this House his present advisers have so neglected and mismanaged the administrative business of the Government of the colony that they do not possess the confidence of this House.” (Loud and continued applause.) Sir GEORGE GREY, who was received with loud cheers, said that in reference to the last speech, such nonsense and buffoonery had never before been seen in that House on such a great occasion—(cheers) —and nnst of his statements were contrary to facts. (Cheers,) What was the case I Why, one single individual was to be hunted down i and there he was. (Cheers.) He stood to face < his opponents and give the denial to the remarks that had been made. There were the Canterbury men who would destroy him if they could —and he saw others sitting round him who were also willing to destroy him because he had worked hard for the interests of the people against the private interests of those individuals. The Hon. Sir W. Fox had made statements that night which would bring lasting disgrace upon the people. Going now over the various questions touched upon by the last speaker, he would first refer to the question of the Waste Lauds Bill, which it was said he had kept back. He said that some of the Canterbury members voted for this wrong thing being done for the purpose of securing large tracts of land for themselves. (No, no.) They might say no; he said yes, yes. (“Name, name.”) He should not give any names, although he saw many of those members now present who owned these tracts of land to the oppression of their fellow countrymen. (Oh.) They might laugh, but it was true. One single company held 600,000 acres of land, which were locked up. (" They were not looked up.”) Mr. SHRIMSKI rose to a point of order to ask for a fair hearing for the Premier, the same as the hon. member for Wanganui had. (Hear, hear.) The Hon. the SPEAKER would remind the member for Oamaru that this was no point of order. If the rules of the House were infringed he (the Speaker) would interfere. (Cheer*,)

Sir GEORGE GREY continued : He never knew a more wicked thing than the passing of this Bill, and had done his duty in trying to get it disallowed. The act of the Governor was the act of one who was faithless to his duty. With regard to the Thames railway, he contended that the Bill parsed gave him full power to carry out the work in the way he had done. The observations that had been made with regard to the answer to the Address were absolutely untrue. The Governor had refused to send a message to that House until the Address in Reply had been passed. Why any statesman could have got up and answered the Address at once. Such was the rule in England. More malicious remarks had been made by the hon. member for Wanganui in half an hour than could be made by any other member in a week. He did not believe that Sir W. Fox himself believed in those remarks. (Cries of order.) He would repeat it.

Sir W. FOX : I believed them all from my heart.

Sir GEORGE GREY- was understood to say that the less the hon. member for Wanganui said about hearts the better. To say that he (the Premier) had entered into any arrangement with any gentleman who was to become Speaker of the Legislative Council was to say that which was absolutely untrue. Sir George next proceeded to speak of the system of holding Cabinet meetings, and said he had always held such meetings when asked to do so. The assertion of Sir W. Fox on that subject was entirely malicious, and was one which he ought to have been ashamed to state. (Cheers.) With regard to certain statements he had made in reference to the natives, they were absolutely untrue, and he knew it. (Oh !) And more than this. Every single proposal that he (the speaker) had made to the natives was made by his predecessors. He proceeded to speak of his own action in the Waikato, when he had tried to carry out the proposals of the previous Government. In the Taranaki question, he might say that he found the settlers absolutely unarmed, and he took this view of it : that the outlying settlers should be taught the use of arms and to defend themselves. That would be to put them in their true position as men. He had been told it was a mistake to give them arms, but he did not think so. He believed that if the Europeans had the superior arms there would be no bloodshed, and that they would for the first time feel their true position in the country. The speaker detailed the particulars of the arrest of the natives, and said that this course , was the very best that could* be pursued. If there was any chance of a disturbance the Government could soon decide that question by taking a couple of thousand of the young settlers of the South and placing them on town and country lots in the disturbed districts, where they could surely hold their own. For this reason he thought he deserved the thanks and not the abuse of the House. He next referred to the hostilities of the late Governor (loud cries of “ Oh, oh 1”) He repeated it. The Government had appealed to the Governor for a dissolution, but it had been refused in a spirit which seemed to say that the Colonial Government was not to be trusted like an English Government. What was the consequences of the refusal. Why, they had to carry on their work in the face of a hostile House. Last year the member for Auckland City West had tried to carry a Bill for triennial Parliaments, but had failed to do so. Why had not the hon. member for Wanganui alluded to this and other matters—why, indeed ? For years and years past certain numberskff people had combined together to grasp large tracts of land, and to keep the people out of the rights to which they were entitled. And what did the Legislative Council do ? Why, they gave themselves the airs of the English House of Lords, and compelled the representatives of that Chamber (the Hauae of Representatives) to sthud. He could say for his own part that he had never demeaned himself by accepting the indignities which that body heaped upon the members of the Lower House. (Cheers.) He denied that he had ever gone on all fours to the natives, but Sir W. Fox could not say as much. He had gone on all fours for a piece of ribbon and a piece of scrawl. (Cheers.) He next referred to the advantages possessed by the privileged classes in the matter of purchasing land. Who made all the railways and other improvements of the colony ? Why, the designing men of the colony. Who had reaped all the advantage, while the taxes had been wrung out of the pockets of the working classes, who received no commensurate benefit He had been laughed at for using the word “ serfs,” but he said the people of England were serfs, and had been so for centuries. (Cheers.) [The Speaker here informed the occupants of the gallery that there must be no applause from that part of the House.] There were friends of his on that side of the House who would never abandon him in the struggle that was ensuing. One of the members for the West Coast (Mr. Gisborne) who had twice refused to take office in the Ministry in the time of its prosperity had at oii'o stepped into the breach at the time of i ,s adversity. There could be no doubt that the speculators and head schemers would do the best they could to destroy that Government, so that they could profit by their greedy speculations, and he believed the people of New Zealand would stand by him. Sir George spoke of the immense tracts of country owned by individuals who did not pay anything like their fair proportion of the taxation of the country, but who would have to do so if certain proposed measures were carried out that session. He had several other things he should like to refer to in defending himself against the attacks that had been madeuponhim. (Cries of “ Go on, go on.”) He had been called coldblooded, and “ a man who had never cared for his fellow-men. He would say that the statement was -, well, he would say absolutely incorrect. He would appeal to the nations in which he had dwelt and the peoples among whom he had lived whether or not ho deserved the character that had been given him by his opponents, and he would appeal to Wellington itself, whether that character was a true one ? (Cheers.)J At this stage of the debate the House adjourned for half-an-hour. On resuming— Sir GEORGE GREY continued—He would next allude to the gentlemen in the public service whose hardships had been narrated by the hon. member for Wanganui. Mr. Booth was an excellent officer, and after the trial was restored to his old position, after being able to rebut a slander that had been brought against him. So far, he considered Mr. Booth a happy man. Sir W, Fox had that night used the most cold-blooded expression he had ever heard. He had spoke about natives going out in the shooting season, when he knew that a number of the Waikato settlers had been murdered. With regard to what had fallen from him in reference to the Native Minister, Sir George Grey paid a very high tribute to that gentleman, and said that Mr. Sheehan was infinitely superior to Sir W. Fox in his love and regard for the native race. (Cheers.) The hon. member for Wanganui, when speaking of the West Coast, had not spoken of the difficulties which beret the Government in that district when they took office. There were many facts in connection with the natives of that district which had not come before the House, but with which the Ministry had to grapple. In his work on behalf of the native race he (the speaker) had had one malignant enemy, but what had been the result—he had never harmed him. (Hear, hear.) His malignity had never been exposed. He (Sir George Grey) had never written a word against him. (Laughter:) He repeated the statement. (Bow about the letter to Mr. Michael Hicks Beach ?) That had nothing to do with his personal character. For years past Sir W. Fox had malignantly and anonymously attacked him in the public prints. Sir W. FOX called the attention of Sir George Grey to the wording of the letter in question. Sir GEORGE GREY said as Premier of the country he was entitled to speak out when a great wrong was being done to the people of the country. If the House respected itself it would not allow such an interference on the part of the Colonial Secretary, and after what he had done Sir W. Fox gloried in his reward. (Laughter.) The hon. gentleman might laugh, but allow him (Sir George Grey) to tell him that something very similar had led to the separation of the Hnited States from the mother country. (Cheers and laughter.) The speaker then referred to the English aristocracy, which did a great national wrong to the people of Great Britain, and pointed out what he considered to be the great evils connected therewith, particularly in the early period of the present century. He then glanced at the condition of France and Belgium, and said he saw [a difficulty of these evils being repeated in New Zealand in a worse form, and that was why from the first he was determined to set his face against it. Sir W. Fox, who had broken every pledge he had given, did not, however, support him in these efforts, but threw every difficulty in his way. (Cheers.) When the hon. member was in office they gave members very small constituencies, and now they came forward and threw eyery obstacle they could in the way of the progress of the country. No more dis-

1 graceful coalition was ever seen than that which the hon. member for Wanganui had brought about. Why, many of those gentlemen had said that the Constitutional Act was far too liberal, and that it must be destroyed. (“ Name, name.”) He should give no name. . Sir George then referred to the power which the Judges had claimed of imprisoning a man for life without any record of the same being kept, and when a Bill was brought forward to amend this state ef things he was very sorry to find that it was not passed. He was determined to fight to the very last that these privileges should be obtained for the people of New Zealand. He had often been repulsed, but had lived to see the measures for advocating which he had been disgraced brought into law, and his ideas adopted. After all, it was so in Africa, and it would be so in New Zealand, notwithstanding the efforts of the gridiron members of Canterbury. (Loud cheers.) The people of New Zealand would never, he felt, desert him and his colleagues ; no, not even if the Home Government sent out a duke to dazzle them. (Cheers and laughter.) The people must as a body feel that they were submitting to great wrongs, and would not tamely submit to bear such wrongs much longer. They were overburdened with taxation for the benefit of the rich, and he said to the Hon. Sir W. Fox, who shook his head, that he was one of the agents who had led to this state of things. He had no fear for the result, as he felt sure they would be triumphant in the end. He had no hesitation in saying that that Parliament did not represent the people of New Zealand. During the many years that Sir W. Fox and party had been in power- no effort had been made to give the people of New Zealand a better system of representation, It would be for the people ot New Zealand now to say whether they would or would not have those advantages to which they were justly entitled. (Cheers.) Mr. EOLLESTON characterised the speech of Sir George Grey as a gross insult on the House, and upon nearly every member in it. (Loud cheers.) The country knew perfectly well what the words of the hon. member were, and they knew exactly what their answer would be. (Cheers.) They had been told that the greedy squatters of Canterbury held 4,000,000 acres of land, and deprived hundreds of settlers of what ought to be their homes. The returns which had been placed on the table on the subject were wholly incorrect. Sir George Grey knew perfectly well that those lands were only held on grazing tenure, and that the runs fell in in 1882. A grosser misrepresentation than had been made by the hon. member that night had never been made in that House. (Cheers.) The reply of Sir G. Grey on the subject of the Loan Bill was a very poor one. To pass such a Bill hurriedly would have had a very bad effect at Home. (Cheers.) Surely they could by telegraph effect anything they required in the Loudon market. Mr. Rolleston then referred to the alleged grievance under which Sir G. Grey was supposed to labor, according to his own account. His opinion was that the gentlemen who were seated on the Government benches were not fit to carry out any policy. Mr. Rolleston then glanced at the Premier's remarks about the British aristocracy, and his remark that he would not demean himself by standing in the , Legislative Council when the Lower House was summoned to that Chamber, and continued to review point by point the statements advanced by Sir George Grey. He made special reference to the system of Government advertising, and said that no greater wrong had ever been done than was done by giving advertisements only to those journals which supported the Government. It was truly gagging the Press, and prevented that fair criticism on all sides which was so necessary in a free country. (Cheers.) On referring to the action of the Ministry in Mr. Barton’s case in trying to influence certain members,

Mr. BARTON rose to a point of order, and said that he would not allow such an imputation to be cast upon him. Since he had been a member for Wellington he had done nothing of which he need be ashamed. In fact, when questions affecting himself had been brought forward he had walked out ot the House.

The SPEAKER thought the member for Avon had travelled beyond the bounds of Parliamentary propriety. Mr. EOLLESTON explained that the House had mistaken him. He had not for one moment meant that Mr. Barton would be influenced by the action of the Cabinet, but had mentioned the fact with a view to show what the Ministry would do to secure the support of members.

Mr. BARTON thought Mr. Rolleston ought to apologise.

Mr. ROLLESTON then went on to criticise the action of the Government in the various question of native affairs on the West Coast and in the Waikato, and the Native Lauds Court. The great evils which now existed were the result of what took place in 1866, when Sir G. Grey was Governor, and for which he was responsible. Sir GEORGE GREY rose to a point of order. He was guided by the advice of his responsible advisers. Mr. ROLLESTON thought that Sir G. Grey was at one time responsible, and that at another time he was not, just as the policy suited. If he had had one spark of generosity in him he would not have attempted to shift the responsibility upon other shoulders. (Hear, hear.) He would not deal with the hon. member’s peroration, and for his own part he had no hesitation in saying that he was not afraid to go to the people, who must be thoroughly wearied with these continual platitudes on the part of the hon. member at the head of the Government. (Cheers) If the Premier had to go to the people of New Zealand he might find himself driven from those benches with a contumely which he might, if wise, at present escape. (Cheers.)

Mr. MOSS said he had listened to statements that night which were wholly incorrect to his own knowledge. He characterised the speech of the hon. member tor Wanganui as one tissue of personalities from beginning to end, and likewise refuted many of the statements made by the hon. member for Avon. He described the meeting of the Premier and the Native Minister in the Waikato, as of the most dignified character. He denied that Tawhiao had ever made use of the insulting words to the Premier that had been ascribed to him by Sir W. Fox. Speaking of the action of the Judges, the hon. speaker said the time would come when the Press would have to be vindicated as against them. He did not regret a single expression that he had made use of last session on this subject, and was entirely opposed to the Government in their view of the matter. f After some further remarks on the different subjects referred to by Sir W. Fox, the speaker sat down amid considerable applause. The debate was adjourned at 12.45 until Tuesday.