DEPUTATION TO THE PREMIER.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5506, 19 November 1878, Page 2

DEPUTATION TO THE PREMIER.

A deputation from, the Chamber of Commerce, composed of Messrs. Knjll, Harcourt, George, and Captain Rose, waited on the Premier at noon yesterday, to bring under his notice various matters. Mr. Seed, secretary for Customs, and Captain Johnston, secretary to the Marine Department, were present. AS TO THE SAILORS’ HOME. „ Captain Rose : When we came to you before, Sir George, in connection with a sailors' home for Wellington, you were good* enough to express .sympathy with the object we have in view, and to promise to place on the Estimates a sum of £SOO as a contribution towards the cost of its erection. You ‘then recommended us to ask the Corporation for a site, as they.were to have the reclaimed land. We have done so, and they consented to give ua a site, providing they received the land known as the Thorndon reclamation. But it appears they have been unable to get the land, and the Chamber of Commerce thought it wise to send us to ask the Government if they could give us a site for the purpose. Sir George Grey : On the reclaimed laud I presume you mean. Captain Rose : Yes. Sir George Grey : You will have to write to me about that, because I shall have to consult the Minister for Public Works as to what the cost of the thing would be. Mr. Kroll : We are quite willing, and indeed anxious, to subscribe the funds for building. It is a site we desire. Sir George Grey : Yes. I will help you in every way in my power, hut whether I can give you a site on that land is a difficult question. The Auckland people have given us a site at once—that is, the Harbor Board have. Mr. Kroll : Unfortunately we have no Harbor Board here. If we had a Harbor Board with an endowment, we should have got a site immediately, X dare say, and the city has no land. Captain Rose : If we had a site w© should soon set to work to collect subscriptions and get a building up. Sir George Grey : I would lose no time about that if I were you. I would get the money at oacc, and then you would get the £SOO from the Government. As to the site, if you will write me a letter I will consult, the Minister for Public Works and let you know our decision ; but I do not know that it would bein the power of the Ministry to give a site on that land for such a purpose. Mr. Krull ; The city has no laud to give us. If a Harbor Board were formed and substantially endowed the Board would at once recognise, I should think, that the establishment of an institution of this kind came within its purpose and scope. Sir George Grey : Has not the city a great deal of land on the other side of the harbor—towards the slip ? Are 'you not going to reclaim there ?

Captain Rose : *We thought a sailors’ home should b« in a central spot, ou account of the intention to have a shipping office in conaection with it. Sir George Gref : I don’t know that a shipping office need be connected with it.. Captain Rose : It makes it better for working. I believe the two things are united in Melbourne, aud that great advantages are found to flow therefrom. *

Sir George Grey: I may say I have always t&keu great interest in sailors’ homes. At the Cape we had a splendid institution of the kind, and I am not at all sure that it would be advantageous to the town to build oue on the reclaimed land. I think the other side of the harbor would be one of the most ornamental positions in the city. Captain Rose : I may ad& that I have written to the Superintendent of the Sailors’ Homo in Melbourne for the purpose of finding out how {it is worked, I believe there is a shipping office in connection with the Sailors’ Homo, and that it is all in the one building. Sir George Grey : There is a gentleman coining to New Zealand from the Cape who could tell you all about how the home was managed there. He ‘was Harbor-master there, and he has written to me to say he is coming to New Zealand. He has retired on his pension, and is coming here to settle.. Captain Rose : No doubt very great evils result from the want of a sailors’ home. The men get into public houses, and becojno almost idiots through drink. Sir George Gret : I will help you in every way. As to giving this site I can say nothing until I have consulted the Minister for Public Works. customs’ regulations. . Mr. Krull : There is another matter we wish to bring before you, Sic George, and that is with regard to the ad valorem duties. The Collector of Customs now requires that on the original invoice should be set forth the discount which is granted to ‘ merchants ; but merchants have been in the habit of getting statements from their correspondents, showing the'discount which is not set forth on the original invoices. We agree it is correct that the requirements of the Collector should bo obeyed, but we wish to have time to write Home in order to get our correspondents to alter the system which has hitherto prevailed, so that inconvenience may be prevented. Now, here is a first invoice, and this is how it appears in the broker’s summary, (handing in papers,) Hitherto this statement or summary has been sufficient. But the Collector of Customs now says that is insufficient, because the whole transaction 1 must be shown on the original invoice. That is quite right, but we want to have further notice. Since I have been in the room Mr. Seed says he thinks there would bo no difficulty where the merchants could prove that discount was granted. Wo are quite content with that or any arrangement so that wo shall not suffer any loss ; but if this new plan is to be enforced we want to have time to write to our correspondents at Home. Seed : I may say that that statement would be entirely satisfactory until the merchants could write Home. But this is a very straightforward paper, and it was not to meet such cases as this that the new provision was made. It was to meet other and very different cases. Sir George Gret (to Mr. Seed) ; Then this statement would be taken as a matter of course. Mr. Seed i In such a case as this the papers would be accepted till the merchant had time to communicate with his broker. Sir George Grey (to the deputation) : Then I suppose that meets the whole difficulty. Mr. Krull : Yes. Mr. Hahoocrt : There is one point which I think Mr, Krull has overlooked. That paper would bo all very well where everything Is complete, but there may be cases in which discount is taken, but in which the cash is not paid before the shipment leaves. The Act says the receipt must be shown, but that may not have been written at the time of the shipment. There is another thing, if summaries by brokers, such as the statement just shown by Mr. Krull,are to bo received as evidence of discount having been given, why should not statements of a similar kind, coming from branch houses in Loudon, be received as evidence ? Some house’s here do business through their agents, and these agents send out .summaries, and others do business through branch houses at Home. While the Collector will accept summaries coming from these agents, ho will not accept them coming from London branches, because he says they are made out by interested parties Surely it

would be very unfair to give one party advantages because he ships through an agent, while another should be deprived of the advantage, simply because he has offices in London.

Mr. Seed : What Mr. Harcourt virtually says is this : If a house whose principal or a partner in which is at Home sends out goods to a branch here,, any statement sent out by that principal or partner should be accepted without question. The Collector takes the view, and I think properly, that a statement made by a representative or a servant of the firm at Home could not be regarded as a statement from an independent party. Mr. Haroourt : If ho made a statement that ho received such and such a discount, I don’t see why that statement should not be re-

ceived. Mr, Seed : There must be some documentary evidence. The mere writing of the principal of the firm could not give satisfaction. Sir George Grey : It seems to me, gentlemen, It is entirely a question of law. If you will submit a statement of what your views and wants are I will take' the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown at once as to whether it would be such a compliance with the Act that it could be allowed.

Mr. Harcourt : There is another point. In cases where a party buys for cash and the receipt comes out, he is allowed to pay duty on the amount of the invoice less the discount. I don’t think it is the wish of the Government to tax a man’s credit; jet if he gives a six mouths’ bill for the goods instead of paying cash he has to pay on the gross amount. X think whether a man gives a six months’ bill or pays cash, there should be no difference in the amount of the Customs duties he has to pay when the goods arrive here. If he takes credit he should be allowed to deduct an amount equivalent to the discount for prompt cash.

Sir George Gret : If you will put these two or three points in a statement in writing, I will see at once whether it is such a compliance with the law as cm be recognised. That is of course for the tme being, because in three or four months you can get everything put right at Home. Mr. Harcourt : What I say is that duty should be charged, as the Act says, on the actual value of the goods at the time of shipment, whether they are paid for by cash and discount allowed, or by bill at six months. Sir George Gret : Do vpu hear that, Mr. Seed ?

Mr, Seed : Yes; the law is very clear. Duty is to be paid upon bona fide payments in England with 10 per cent, added. If we were to do what Mr. Harcourt suggests there would be endless confusion We should have to go through the various ramifications of a man’s business to find out what, his transactions really were. Only absolute discounts can be exempted from duty. Mr, Harcourt : Well, it would be a simple matter to have the discounts taken off the invoice and indluded in the bill in credit transactions.

f Mr, Seed : It would be a simple thing to falsify the invoices.

Mr. Harcourt: There would be no falsification in that.

Mr, Seed ; It would be, clearly. Mr. Harcourt : My point is this : If you paid cash on a purchase for £IOO you would get the goods for £96 10s. That is the value of the goods, the other £3 10s, being paid for accommodation, and has nothing to do with the value of the goods ; and if a merchant has to pay duty on that the Government is simply levying a duty upon his credit. Sir George Grbt : What is the practice, Mr. Seed ? Mr, Seed : We allow the discount shown ‘ on the invoice. Sir George Grey: Would not that meet, the case ? Mr, Seed : No, it is not possible to meet a case of this kind. It is an attempt to get behind the benefits of capital. Of course capital must have its advantages in all commercial transactions. • Sir George Grbt : I will speak to the Law Officers of the Crown on the subject, A STEAM TUG FOR THE HARBOR. Mr. J. R. George : We desire also to bring under your notice, Sir George, .the want of a steam tug for the Wellington harbor. There being no Harbor Board or any similar body here, we. thought perhaps there might be. an inquiry made by -the Marine Department as to whether the pilot service of the port could not be worked in connection with a steam tug. The idea that struck some members of the Chamber of Commerce was that the pilot service might be removed from the present station at the Heads, that the pilot might live on board the tug, remain in port, and go out to sea when signalled for as being required by a vessel outside. In favor of this idea it might be urged that a pilot might attend to vessels often when, , under the present system, he could not .do so owing to the rough weather. There might be' a, little increase of cost, but very little. Less men would bo required, aud the only appreciable item of costrwould be that of coah The men could live on board, aud their wages would not be increased ; while on the other hand, any additional expenditure would bo more than recouped the Marine Department by the* sum received for towage and such, other services as a steamer could render.. I am not prepared with any statistics ; but from the Marine officers I daresay every informal tiou could be obtained. Tip to the present time we have been unable to obtain a tug, although very necessary, and I am afraid that there is not a sufficient prospect of continued support for a tug to induce private enterprise to take the matter up. Under theae circumstances the Chamber of Commerce thought it desirable to bcjug it under the notice of the Government. » Sir George Gret : Of course, from your. * letter, I did not gather what you meant. The letter to me simply said wished to bring under notice the desirableness of getting a » steam tug for Wellington harbor. Of course in that shape I did not see my way’to eater-, tain the proposition,'but as you have put it I certainly think it is a fair and proper subject for inquiry. The view you have put forward did not present itself to my mind. However, I will cause an inquiry to be made and'estimates to be prepared, and will let you know the result. Mr. George : The letter cut things short, but that was what we meant. Mr. J£hull ; We knew that we could nob come to the Government and ask them for a steam tug, but we thought our suggestion as to a steam pilot service would be worthy of consideration. Sir George Gret : Oh, yes ; I will have the whole matter inquired into. The deputation thou thanked the Premier, and withdrew.