HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5497, 8 November 1878, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Monday, October 21. THE NATIVE POLICY.

The Hon. Mr. S HER HAN rose to open the debate on the native policy of the Government, and was received with cheers. He regretted that Bills of such an important character should have to be brought down at so late a period of the session. There was no doubt that during the present pession native matters had received a great deal of consideration at the hands of the House, There were now only two or three matters that required to be referred to since he had made his statement on native affairs. Since that statement was mad© instructions had been issued to native interpreters, magistrates, and frauds commissioners warning them against interfering with or attesting any negotiations for the sale of land within the proclaimed blocks. He took upon himself the responsibility of this action ; it was taken with a view to staving off any dealing with native lands by private speculators until certain negotiations which were being carried on by the Government were completed. The survey of the Waimate Plains had been taken by the Government because they had become waste lands of the Crown. He declined to discuss with Titokowaru any question as to whether the land belonged to the Crown or not, or whether it should be returned to the natives. The land had by law become waste lands of the Crown, and the natives interested were informed that the survey would be proceeded with, and that in accordance with the policy pursued by their predecessors, the Government would return certain portions of land to the natives interested for their maintenance and support. The survey of these plains, and also of the Waitotara lands, was now being proceeded with most successfully ; and while some members of the Opposition were pleased with the success attending the negotiations of the Government in this direction, there were other hon. members who were not quite so gratified at the satisfactory results that had been achieved. It had been his intention to bring down a most sweeping Bill dealing with native lands, but he had since determined not to make any sweeping change until the pacification of the natives was a thing complete, and until they could have the assistance of the deliberarations of those natives who until now had been, he might say, without the pale. It was for this reason that he thought it not desirable to attempt any change of a revolutionary character with regard to the native lands and native questions generally this session. It was his intention to invite’ to Wellington two or three members of each of the tribes in the island, to put before them the state of the law and the effect of its application throughout the country, to ask them to make suggestions, and in this manner prepare a Bill which would be acceptable next session to the House and the country. The Government proposed now to pass through the House three Bills that might be regarded as of a temporary nature. One of these was a Licensing Bill, which had become absolutely necessary in consequence of the state of demoralisation into which the natives had fallen in ’ some districts of the colony. He intended to take such steps as would have the effect of wiping out all slygrog shops from Native districts. With regard t« the Government Native Land Purchases Act Amendment Bill, the Government desired to prevent private individuals from entering into negotiations for the acquisition of native lands until they had passed through the Native Lands Court. The Government had paid a great deal of money on account of land in various parts of the country. There were large public interests involved, and therefore the Government wished to prevent the dealing with native lands by any persons whomsoeveruntiltheselaudshad passed through the Court, and the real owners were determined on. It was said that the Native Lands Court was under the thumb of the Government, hut the fact that the decisions of the Court had been in many instances against the Government was a sufficient denial of the assertion that the Court was under the thumb of the Government. If the natives, after their land had passed through- the Court, declined to deal with the Government, then the land would be open to public competition. The intention of this Bill was nothing more than to protect the just interests of the Crown and to secure the peace. The Hon. Mr. FOX said he should not have X'isen at so early a period of the debate had not the Native Minister Challenged him the other night to criticise the native policy of the Government. Ho was very unequal to the task on account of an indisposition which had compelled his non-attendance in the House for about a week, and he had not yet recovered. Ho regretted he could not be brief on this-occasion. This was the first opportunity hon. members had of discussing the Native policy of the Government. He would begin by asking where were they to begin ? Where are they to find the Native policy ? He had been endeavoring to fish up the Native policy from the various records within his reach, but he failed to find it. The greater part of tho first Native statement, delivered by the Native Minister, was composed of approvals of the policy pursued by his predecessor. He then admitted that the peace that had reigned in the country since 1869 was due to the policy pursued by Sir Donald McLean. He was much more generous last year than he was this year. How different his aeries of “approvals” of the policy pursued by his piedecessors, and especially the late Sir Donald McLean, to the language put into his Excellency’s mouth at the opening of the present session—that peace had “at last” been established I They had heard a great deal about the negotiations that had been carried on during the greater portion of the last recess by the Premier' and the Native Minister. The Premier and the Native Minister held meetings with the Maori King, and an account of these interviews was given in what was called a State paper. Now this paper was made up of nothing but a series of letters from a newspaper correspondent, addressed to the Auckland Evening Star , and certainly the greatest rubbish he had ever read. He was astonished that the Government could lay this document before the House as a State paper. It was nothing more nor less than an insult to the House. And yet this was all the information that had been furnished to the House of those meetings with the Maori King, out of which so much capital had been made by the Premier, and the Native Minister. During the lifetime of Sir Donald McLean (in 1876), the Premier denounced him for holding meetings with the Maori King in the presence of the murderer , Winiata, At the meetings with the Maori King during the last recess Te Kooti, the most blood-stained rmuderer in New Zealand, danced in close proximity to the tent in which tho Premier and .the Maori King sat, proclaiming that he was the man on whose head a price had been set.. And Te Kooti was not the only murderer there. Sullivan's murderer was there, and three others besides. The atmosphere was full of these murderers at the various meetings held with Tawhiao, and yet in the Premier’s conscience he must have felt that ho denounced tho late Sir Donald McLean for allowing Winata to bo in his vicinity. What, ho would ask, had been the outcome of all these meetings at Te Kopua, Hikurangi, and Waitara! Absolutely nothing. The Premier had pro- , mised everything to the Maori King and to • Rewi, but they had given nothing in return. They were to have their territory returned to them, their authority amongst their people maintained, and annual allowances made to them in the shape of large sums of money. And it was hinted, too, that Rewi was to have a seat in tho Upper House. But there was nothing authentic as to what tho events and results of the several meetings were. Instead of this miserable document—which was a disgrace,’ an insult to the House and to the Governor—why did the House not have placed before it a copy of his Excellence's despatch to the Colonial Office, in which the events and results of these meetings were sot forth? With regard to the Bills now before the House, he thanked the Native Minister; the country would thank him, tho native people would thank him, for the Bill which he introduced for tho purpose of preventing the evils of intoxication amongst the native race. He would give the Native Minister every assistance in his power to pass the Bill through the House. ■ He hoped, also, that if tho effects of this Bill on the native people were such as the Native Minister anticipated, that tho hon, member would introduce a Bill of a similar character for the European population of the colony.

Mr. ROLLESTON said he could not but look at the position of the native question as being very unsatisfactory. ; . Anyone going through Wellington at the present time could see that the natives, instead of ameliorating their condition, were giving way to vices of various descriptions, of which drunkenness was a very prominent one. It had now become a question whether native affairs should come under the control of the House, or be left to personal government. So far as thd House was acquainted with the actions of the Native Minister, ho (Mr. Bolleston) considered that ho had acted in a very straightforward way. He blamed

the Government for the course pursued in going to meet the Maori King and the disaffected natives. The Government ought to have waited for the King and his people to come to them ; the position the Government had taken up was an undignified one, and he did not see how much good could result from it. He held that it was very difficult to go back from the course that had been adopted with regard to native lands. They were now proceeding on a mixed system, and he believed that if the Government continued the system of purchasing land it would lead to difficulties of a very serious kind hereafter. He believed that the true government of the natives would lie, not with the Ministry of the day or with Orders-in-Council, but with the people themselves, through their representatives in Parliament assembled. He believed that yet it was not to® late to establish a system of reserves out of the large tracts of uualienated lands that still existed, by means of which provision would be made for the native race. He hoped a different policy would be adopted in native affairs than that which had .characterised the recess. He believed the. Native Minister had the inclination and capacity to adopt such a policy as would bo more satisfactory to both races. He thought that in allowing crime to go unpunished a great deal of weakness had been shown, Tho natives required to be taught a higher system of morality, and at the same time they should be shown the paths to industry, and he hoped that before long such a line of policy would be pursued as would be productive of beneficial results to both races. Mr, MANDE RS said he would support the native policy of the Government. Mr. MOORHOUSE said the administration of native affairs was a personal matter, and must be so for some years to come. He entirely sympathised with tho expressions of, confidence in the Native Minister that had fallen from all sides of the House. (Hear, hear.) Tho administration of the Government he had the fullest confidence in; but with regard to their policy he only approved of it to a certain extent. He believed the Government ought to and allow the Natives to deal with their*lands in the way they thought proper. The Maoris were quite sharp enough in matters of business to take very good care that no imposition was practised upon them. There was not the slightest objection to passing the Bills under consideration, with some amendments. He thought it would be advisable to give the Natives a free survey of their land, and power to sell it to whomsoever they pleased. Ho would support the motion for the second reading of the Land Purchases Act Amendment Bill, on the understanding that in committee ho would move an amendment exempting from the operation of the Bill those lands the tenancy of which had been acquired under due operation of law. Mr. WAKEFIELD considered that at present native affairs’were in a very hopeful condition. There was a broad distinction between tbe present Native Minister's administration and that of his predecessor. The present Native Minister did not procrastinate ; he did net try to coddle or to deceive the natives, but he insisted upon the natives obeying the English law, and refused to have any dealings with them until they obeyed. He believed that much good had resulted, and would result, from the interviews that had taken place with the Maori King and Rewi. There was no doubt whatever that the Premier possessed a great amount of influence with the native people, and he (Mr. Wakefi-dd) believed that but for this extraordinary influence, the Native Minister, even with all the ability he possessed, would not have been able to do half what he had done in the time. He was pleased with the honest manner in which the Native Minister had stated in the House that night that he did not intend to bring in a Native Lands Bill. He (Mr. Wakefield) believed that one great reason for this 1 was, that the Native Minister had not had time to give the matter that amount of consideration which its importance required. He trusted the Native Minister would make up his mind to divest the native office of all the jnumbo-jumbo and mystery that had always surrounded it. He hoped also that steps would be taken to do justice to the natives of the South Island, He thought they had been treated worse than any other’ natives in New Zealand, for the simple reason that they had conducted themselves better than any other natives in the colony. He had every confidence in the Native Minister’s sense of justice, and he believed, so far as the claims of the Middle Island natives were concerned, they would have justice done to them at his hands. He thought under all the circumstances that the House had every reason to congratulate itself on the hopeful condition of native affairs at the present time.

Captain MORRIS considered that the concessions from the Maori King had been obtained at too high a price. He thought the action of the laud purchase system exceedingly unfair ; and be also protested against the influence which the Government were seeking to exercise at elections by swamping the European vote in his and other constituencies. Mr. SUTTON considered this Government Native Land Purchases Act Amendment BUI the most vile Bill that had ever been introduced into this House ; it was a Bill that was a disgrace to any Government to bring in. If it were passed, there was nothing to prevent the Native Minister sending his emissaries to drive the cattle off land which was now in the occupation of settlers in the country. It was a monstrous proposition to make that no deal-. ings should be permitted with regard to lands on which tbe Government had paid a deposit and which were included iathe proclamations. One of the effects of the. Bill would be to decrease the price of land. He would advise the withdrawal of tbe Bill, and next session the Native Minister could bring down a more satisfactory measure. Ho would support the Native Licensing Bill, and hoped its operation would be productive of all the beneficial results that were expected to flow from it. Mr. TAIAROA said he would support the second reading of the Government Land Purchases Act Amendment Bill, reserving to himself the right of moving amendments in committee. The Licensing Bill was a splendid BUI for the natives—a very good Bill indeed. Mr. TAWHITI suggested the withdrawal of the Bill, in order that it might be brought down on the first day of next session. He made this suggestion in order that the present session might end in peace. Sir R. DOUG hAS said that although he intended to vote for tbe second reading of this Bill, ho disapproved of that portion of the policy of the Government which allowed murderers to go at large, and the English race to be dragged through the dirt. The Treaty of Waitangi, and that alone, ought to be carried out in its letter and spirit.

Mr. MACFARLANE could not allow the Bill to pass the second reading without entering his protest against it. No . Government ought to possess such a power as the BiU proposed to confer. He felt certain that if tbe Bill became law, the Government would have cause to regret it. (Cries of M Question ”) No other member desiring to address the House, The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied. With reference to the claims of the Southern natives, steps wore being taken to give practical effect to tho promise so often repeated by their predecessors, by the appointment of a Commission, to inquire into tbe unfulfilled claims, if any, .on the part of the natives of the Middle Island. The hon. gentleman defended the course pursued by the Government in laying the newspaper reports on the table, as previous Governments had laid the reports of paid Government officials in the Native, Department on the table, and these could not be regarded as being of so independent a nature as the reports sent to the Auckland, Evening iSfor; these were written in a cheerful style, and in places were exceedingly graphic, and he had resolved on leaving them to speak for themselves as to .what took place, and it was for this reason that tbe reports were printed in their entirety. The Premier did not know that Sullivan’s murderer, or any other murderers, was present at the meeting with the Maori King. The Government had made no such concessions as were imputed to them. But for the Premier, he had no doubt whatever that tho negotiations would never have taken place, or the same satisfactory results have happened. The motion for second reading was agreed to on the voices, and the Bill was ordered to be committed next day. The House adjourned at 1.55 a.ra.