PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5485, 25 October 1878, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, October 24. The Hon. the Acting-Speaker took the chair at the usual hour.' Several papers were laid on the table by the Hon. Colonel Whitmore, and some committee reports brought up. Various notices of motion and question were given. THIRD READINGS, The Foxton Reserves, Newmarket Reserves, Norsewood Mechanics’ Institute, Timara Harbor Endowment, Christchurch Boys’ High School, and Wanganui High School Bills were read a thirl time mid passed. WELLINGTON COLLEGE ACTS AMENDMENT. On the motion for third reading of the Wellington College Acts Amendment BUI, the Hon. J. Johns on desired to offer a few remark*, as ho was not present at the second reading. He animadverted on the management of the College, and said if it went on as it had been going on the Legislature would he asked for power to sell the reserves fco pay the debts of the College. And if the Legislature persisted in the course it was taking in this instance, it would discourage wealthy men from making endowments.—The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse supported the Bill. The hou. gentleman had failed to see that the land w,as granted in the first instance unconditionally. After some remarks from the Hon. Mr. Holmes, the Hon. Captain Fraser had been pleased to hear the protest of Mr, Johnston. He moved that the Bill be read a third time that day six months. —'Hie Hon. Colonel Whitmore supported tho ; Bill. The portion of the Town Belt affected by the Bill had been appropriated for collegiate purposes in 1572. The Legislature now had nothing fco do with that, and by retarding the ' present Bill they would simply be acting the part of the dog-in-the-manger.—The Hon. Mr. Mantell mast oppose the Bill. Referring to the management of the College, he thought it too expensive ; and speaking of late cases of sickno'-'S, ho said the dnclosures then made showed the sanitary condition of the college to 1 have been infamous.—The Hon. P. A. Bucklet, as one of the Boat d of Governors, must reply to some of the remarks made against the college. It was hard to blame the College authorities for an act of Providence, in the late cases of sickness. Speaking of the College generally, he said the institution was one of which Wellington might be proud, seeing the high position its students had taken,—The Hon. Mr. PEACOCK opposed the passing of the Bill.—Sir F. D. Bell hoped what was left of the Town Belt would be strictly preserved; but this Rill did not affect that. Was it desirable fco do away with the College ? That was the question. [Hou. Mr. Miller: No] Well, they had no other means of continuing the college.—The Hou. Mr. Miller was of opinion that if the Council passed this Bill they would destroy the college. One of the great causes of the failure of the Dunedin High School was the way in which its grounds were curtailed. Those who were opposing this Bill were in reality the best friends, of the college. It would tide over its present' debt somehow or other. They should not permit this reserve to bo let to Tom, Dick, or Harry, who would put up his paltry little villa, and by-and-by a tauyard and a publicliouso would be.there. [An hou. member : The conditions.] They would walk through the conditions. (Herr, hear.) His advice to the Council was—Don’t pa«s the Bill.—After a few words from Mr. Johnston and Mr. Waterhouse, the question was put, when a division was called for, with the result —For the third reading, IS ; against, 10. WELLINGTON CITY BOUNDARIES. The Hon. Mr. Hart moved the second reading briefly.—He was followed by the Hou. Air.- Maktell, who opposed the Bill, and moved that it should be read a second time that day six months.—The Hon. Colonel Whitmore supported, and Captain Fraser opposed the Bill.—A division was called for— Ayes, 19 ; noes, 7. The Bill was then‘read a second time. BILLS INTRODUCED. Several local Bills were brought up from the House of Representatives, and read a first time. HAUbOU BILL. It was moved that the Council do not insist on its amendments in this Bill, which was agreed to. THAMES HARBOR BOARD. . The Hon. Colonel Whitmore moved the second reading of this Bill. The measure was brought in for two purposes—to appoint a Court, and to give power fco borrow £IOO,OOO. He believed ho was correct when he said that the evidence taken by the committee to which the Bill had been referred had dealt exclusively with the borrowing powers. All that was at present wanted by the Harbor Board was £IO,OOO or £12,000. Now it was proposed to make a railway from the Thames to the Waikato, and for a very large tract of country the harbor would be the natural outlet. Why force the building of a town at a new place ? He would tell the Council one reason,—a large part of the land there was owned by Air. Whitaker and Air. Thomas Russell. However, the question was one that might be fairly, argued as between the opposing interests.—The Hou. Air. Waterhouse could not altogether agree with the report of the committee on the Bill. He thought the Bill should he proceeded with, if only to appoint the Court sought for. The borrowing powers sought for were too large.— The Hon. Mr. Holmes said the report which had been laid on the table was the only one, seeing the conflicting nature of the information they had before them, which the committee could have brought up.—The Hon. Mr. Gray supported the report of the committee. —The Hon. J. Johnston said there was really no evidence fca support the Bill produced before the committee. Such evidence as they had went rather to show that the money would be thrown away.—The Hon. Dr. Pollen explained the nature of the native claims in the Hauraki Gulf. The Bill ought to have come down earlier, when full information could have been produced on the subject. Proceeding, he said that a very short railway would connect Grahamstown and Shorthand with Kopu. where was the propei port of the district, inside the River Thames. Speaking of what had been said of. Messrs; Whitaker and Russell, the question was not as between those gentlemen, as owners of land at Kopu, or owners of land at Tavaru ; hut as to where was the best port for the Thames Valley. Expenditure in tho'direction now proposed would, he thought, bo wasteful and injudicious.—The Hon. Air. Hall hoped if the Bill went into committee the borrowing powers. would be reduced to such sum as was absolutely necessary. — The Hon. Captain Fraser would limit the borrowing power to £30,000. —The Hon. Colonel Whitmore replied, and hoped the Council would grant a small sum. Ho would be obliged to the Council if they would allow the Bill to bo read a second time. —The Bill was read a second time on the voices. IN COMMITTEE. The Napier Harbor Board Bill was considered and reported. The Wellington City Boundaries Bill was committed, and the second and third clauses amended. A schedule was then added describing the boundaries* Thames Harbor Board Act Amendment Bill.—Some amendments were made in accordance with the recommendations of the committee to which the Bill had been referred. Several clauses were struck out, and on the borrowing clause the power was limited to £50,000. —Tiie H«u. Air. Hall proposed a new clause, making it obligatory on the Board to settle and payout of any moneys in their bauds all compensation which the Court shall decide to be payable, whether to natives or other persona. The new clause was agreed to after a long discussion, and the Bill was reported with amendments. The Hokitika Harbor Board Bui was considered, amended, and reported. The New River Harbor Board Bill was also considered, amended, and reported. The Council then (10.30) adjourned, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, October 21. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. SPECIAL WIRE ARRANGEMENT. Before the business on the Order Paper was proceeded with, Sir GEORGE GREY made a statement to the effect that the Government had determined, when they came into office, that oao

firm should no longer have a monopoly of ilio supply *of news, because in England it had been found that where one firm, or even two or three firms, possessed sueh a monopoly, it had an injurious effect, in that it -tended'to warp public opinion, or prevent public opinion being formed. It was a question of free printing. They had found when they came into office that the Press Agency did possess such a monopoly, and they determined it should no longer exist, and the means they adopted was to decide to introduce the system into New Zealand which had been inaugurate I in England, and grant special wire?. He was very glad therefore when the first offer was made by certain persons. He explained that although the first estimate of granting a wiro was £4OOO, yet it was found when all 'unfair charges were taken off, the cost to the colony would bo £2OOB ; and it was decided to grant a wire for the round sum of £2OOO. He hinted that the Government thought the department had thrown improper impediments in the way of the arrangement. He explained at length the course pursued in England, and said newspaper proprietors in New Zealand were to be charged for special prices 50 per cent. less than the sum charged in England. Ho believed the arrangement proposed to be made was for the good of the colony, and would undergo any amount of persecution rather than support a monopoly. TII3 arguments used against the proposal were altogether untenable, ami he hoped the House would support the Government. He moved the adjournment of the House, fco put himself in order. Air. AIcLEAN was glad the Premier had taken the blame off the shoulders of the Telegraph Commissioner, and announced himself to be the author of this iniquity. He did not wish to preserve a monopoly, but it was the Premier who desired to raise up a monopoly to crush the independent. Press, and the man with whom the Premier had been working in secret was editor of the Otagu Daily Times, the man who had gone to Waikato to manufacture telegrams in the Government interest, —the same man who manufactured the false account of the triumphal arch at Taranaki. The Premier ought to be ashamed of himself for perpetrating such a nefarious transaction. The Post-master-General had said ho would not make any arrangement without due publicity being given; but the Premier, being moved thereto by back-stairs influence, had stepped in and done this thing. Afore than that, he had lent his influence to the representatives of these persons who went to Sydney for the purpose of getting a monopoly of the cable, in which he had happily failed ; and the Premier had also on one occasion asked how much it would take fco ruin the Press Agency. He had put off members from day to day, in topes tbat the House would prorogue and that he would be free to trample the independent journals down in the dust; but now, when he was found out, he came down and said innocently he was doing this for the good of the human race, but the human race was ungrateful. The fact was that the Premier had a deadly hatred to one of tho part iers of tho Press Agency, and the man into whose hands he wished to throw tho monopoly was a man whom: the Press Agency had been obliged to dismiss from the position of Dunedin agent fco them, because he was in the habit of sending through disgracefully colored telegrams for party purposes. • Mr. JOHNSTON said the papers which had been laid upon the table did not bear out the Premier’s statement that he wished to break down a monopoly, but, on the contrary, that he wished to ra*se up a monopoly in his own interest. (Hear, hear.) The general manager, in a minute to the Government, pointed out that if the application were granted it would create a monopoly; bat across that minute the Premier wrote a minute that the arrangement would be created. (Hear, hear.) Probably the English Government were desirous to give facilities to the Press, but the English Government* no doubt, consulted the House of Commons about it, and did not make secret arrangements or start papers with their own money, and keep them up with Government advertisements. Air. FEJLDWIGK considered two Press agencies were necessary, because the Press Agency, whether wittingly or not, had not treated evening papers fairly, and had shown great bias in favor of the Opposition papers. Therefore, if there was to be a loss to the revenue, he thought it was in the public ihceresfc that a second agency should be started. . Ho was perfectly willing to confide in the honor of the Government, and as the proprietor of an evening paper believed the Governfn4ufc wished to benefit the evening paperf. tie looked to great results from competition between Press agencies. Tho Hon. Major ATKINSON complained that the Premier had been altogether misleading the House. This had nothing to do with the question of free printing, but a gross job was going to be perpetrated. (Hon. Air. Sheehan : Has been.) No, tho House had fortunately stopped it. The facts' of the case were these. At present every one of her Alajesty’a subjects could go into any telegraph office and transmit messages on even terms, but further facilities were asked for by the papers, and if they could grant the asked for facilities, then a public notice should have been issued setting forth that they could, and inviting applications from all persons alike. Instead'of that, certain thick and thin supporters were to be granted these facilities, to the exclusion of all other persons. There was no monopoly at the present time. There could be half a dozen Press agencies started in every town if it was desired. So there was no monopoly, but the fact was that the Government wanted to create a monopoly, so that the Press Agency, and the journals which endeavored fco speak the truth during the recess, might be crushed. The Hon. Air. BALLANCE said the Government had power to grant concessions to the Press or a combination of newspapers, and all they had to consider was whether all parties coulcf he served alike. When the question arose, the Government specially asked the general manager of telegraphs whether, if the present agency were desirous of taking a concession similar fco that to be granted to the new agency, it could be granted? The reply was “Yes,” and the position in which the matter stood was that there were three wires one for the present agency, one for the now agency, and one for the general public. The present agency got the special wire immediately it was asked for, and there was no occasion for imputations, because they were undeserved, as everything was fair and above-board. Air. OLIVER complained that the evening papers were unfairly sacrificed to the morning papers all through the colony. Air. ROLLESTON quoted the letters of the general manager of telegraphs fco show that Air. Ballanco had given a totally wrong version of the whole affair, because Dr. Lemon considered that if the application were granted it vould be fco tho exclusion of all the morning papers which did not join in the arrangement. Ho considered it was most humiliating that the Government should endeavor to serve their friends at the expense of the public and-at the expense of justice. It was greatly to be regretted that the Premier could not let the opportunity pass without having a slap at the department, but his conduct was consistent in this matter, because he had since he had taken office endeavored, as far as possible, to destroy the Civil Service. He instanced tho case of Air. Booth, and was proceeding to elaborate the point, by a reference to the Waggon Company, further when The SPEAKER said the lion; member was getting rather away from tho question. Air. ROLLESTON should not proceed with tho matter further then. Mr, KELLY considered that the Government should rule the Civil Service, and not the Civil Service the Government. Air. AIACANDRE W said there was nothing wrong in connection with the Waggon Company. Hon. members had better read the correspondence. Air. AIOSS complained that the Press Agency had in the past perverted every word which could be perverted to the prejudice of Sir George Grey when in Opposition. The colony had suffered under a grievous monopoly, and he was glad to think it was to he broken down. The Hon. Air. FISHER said Dr. Lemon had done his duty in putting all the facts before the Government, but it was not incumbent upon the Government to do as he wished. He charged Air, RoUestou with having assisted the Government into office, and then having turned round upon them because they would not carry out his little game. The Hon. Air. GISBORNE thought a monopoly had not been created because the Government were going to give tho same concession to the Press Agency as was granted to the new agency; but still he thought the Government had made a mistake in mixing itself up with the matter.' Air. BOWEN pointed out that there was a great difference between tho remarks of tho Premier and the Postmaster-General as to tho conduct of Dr. Lemon. He thought the Premier had been guilty 1 of very improper conduct in blaming Dr. Lemon for doing what the Postmaster-General declared was his duty. The House and the country did aotrwaut

these private arrangements, hut wanted to see everything done fairly, due publicity being given, beforehand in the Gazette. It was a strange thing that when the, Press Agency wrote a letter to the Government on the subject .some months ago they could get no answer, but after a strong expression of opinion in the House they wrote another letter, and got a reply in a few hours. That sort of thing showed how the Government would act if they were left to their own devices. Mr. RICHARDSON, in reply to Mr. Macandrewi said the papers laid on the table in reference to the Waggon Company, confirmed the impression that undue advantages had been promised by the Government. Mr. ROWE read telegrams to show that the Grabamstown papers protested against the proposed arrangement. Sir R. DOUGLAS said if the department bad so much money to spare, the Government should devoto it to the extension of the lines, to meet the wants of the people, and not to servo the purposes of party. He complained that the evening papers would bo lasers under the transaction proposed. Mr.HUNTER was glad that the PostmasterGeneral had done justice to Dr. Lemon, who was really » very painstaking officer. Mr. WAKEFIELD said the point of the whole affair seemed to have been missed in the debate, and that was that after considerable pressure bad been brought upon the Government, they had consented to give the Press Agency a special wire, well knowing that the facilities, at their disposal would never allow of the Press Agency getting tho wire because all the available faoilties had been granted to those other parties. There was no doubt that tho Government had performed this Uttlo trick wilfully- He spoke at some length of the unfair operation of the proposed arrangement, quoting a telegram from the Dunedin Evening Star to the effect, that in consequence of the new combination, cablegrams would coat each paper three times as much as previously. He denied that there was any monopoly enjoyed by the Press Agency, and said new agencies could be started at any time by any one. Speaking with great experience, he complimented the Press Agency upon their impartiality, and said the only effect of this new combination would bo to destroy a fairly efficient organisation, to put up in its place another which offered no guarantee for efficiency. At present the system of special wires could not be inaugurated, and the proposal of tho Government would operate exceedingly unfairly to the Press of the colony, and he said that after a careful perusal of the whole of the papers bn the table, be should like . to see a motion placed before the House expressive of opinion on the subject. The Hon. Mr. FOX regretted .that the Post-master-General himself had not dealt with this matter, or that the Premier had for once left alone the great minds of Europe, and descended to practical business. It was a business matter, as Mr. Reed said, and the question was, why should these few persons bo granted exceptional privileges when the whole of tho public were quite unable to get concessions which would aliow of out-districts getting the benefit of telegraphic connection with the rent of the colony. He went on to complain of the unfair treatment some districts had to succumb to under the regulations of the department, and said these matters ought to bo settled before the fictitious claims of posterity were considered. He condemned the action of tho Premier in reference to Dr. Lemon. It Dr. Lemon had done wrong, then he should-be dismissed. If he had not done wrong, the Premier should not have complained to the House of his conduct. Dr. Lemon, deserved well of tho colony for the great ability he had shown in the management of the telegraphs ; his ability bad been recognised at the other side of the world, and high honor and distinction bestowned upon him ; and it was therefore to be hoped the Commissioner of Tele- , graphs would reassert his position, and not allow his officers to be so treated. He charged the Government with having granted a concession to the Press Agency which at the time of "ranting they knew could not be carried out. (Mr. Stout : Oh !) Ob ! Why the Commissioner of Telegraphs had told the House so only the previous day. He said they could do nothing for the Press Agency now, but hoped to be able to do so next January. If they expected to be able to grant concessions to all next January, why did they not reply to these gentlemen—“ Well, we cannot grant your application till we are in a position to grant similar concessions to other people if they ask for it, which will at the earliest be in next January.” But they did nothing of the sort. By a secret arrangement they put it out of their power to grant special privileges to anyone else. The hour of adjournment interrupted the debate. On the House resuming at half-past seven, the motion for the adjournment of tho House was negatived on the voices. THE CITY OF AUCKLAND. The Hon. Mr. STOUT read a telegram which had been received to the effect that the immigrants had started on their way to Waikanae. The telegram stated that they were greatly indebted to the Maoris, bnt for whom they would not have been there to-day. DISTRICT RAILWAYS ACT, 1877, AMENDMENT BILL. The amendments made by the Legislative Council were agreed to. PUBLIC EEVENL'ES BILL. The amendments made by the Legislative Council were agreed to. WAIKATO CROWN LANDS SALES BILL. This Bill was read a second time, and . ordered to be committed presently. THAMES WATER SUPPLY BILL. The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed presently. CEMETERIES MANAGEMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The House went into committee on this and the two preceding Bills, which were read a second time. These Bills were reported to the House - without amendment, read a third time, and passed. DISQUALIFICATION BILL. Several amendments made by the Legislative : Council having been disagreed to, a committee was appointed to draw np tho reasons of dissent, SITTINO ON SATURDAY. It was resolved that the House should sit on Saturday from 2.30 p.m. till not later than 10 p.m. • RAILWAY CONSTRUCTION RILL. The adjourned debate was resumed. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the Government were very much to bo blamed for bringing forward so important a Bill two or three days before the termination of the session. He know of no Bill that was ever calculated to open the door to so much corruption as this one. The Minister for Public Works confessed that be knew nothing of a great deal of the works which this Bill proposed to carry out. ■ It was an Appropriation Bill of the worst possible character. If it .became law, there was nothing to prevent the Minister for Public Works entering into a contract with any large contractor before Christmas for the construction of the whole of the works, and the expenditure of all the money mentioned in tho schedule. This was a power which should be placed in the bands of no Government. (Hear, hear.) The Bill was one that ought not to be lost to posterity. It ought to bo sent to the Museum, and be framed and hung up there, in order that the public might see what kind of a Bill a Government was capable of producing with Sir George Grey at its head. Tho Go--11 vernment asked the. House to give them absolute and uncontrolled power to spend the enormous sitai of money set down in tho schedule. ■ There would be an enormous pressure brought to bear on any Government to whom such a power was given, in order that doubtful railways might bo decided on before Parliament met next . year. . Ho would now look at the financial aspect of tho question. It was an important fact to bear in mind that there were no unexpended balances to go towards meeting the proposed expenditure of six and a half millions. There would at the end of next June be no money to proceed with, unless the House agreed to raise loans, or tho Land Fund collected daring the current year was devoted to the purpose. There was the other alternative, which he hoped the House would . never agree, to, namely, to let those railways on what the Hon. the Minis* ter called the deferred - payments principle, by which the colony would have to pay 15 or 20 per cent, more than if they paid cash. Ho hoped the House would never consent to such improvident contracts being entered into The Minister for Public Works said, “Let us trust;'to luck,” but he (Major Atkinson) objected to trusting to luck Ju financial matters! The bon. Minister proposed to go to the i land fund. Now from this source a million apd a quarter would bo requited, or everything would bo thrown into contusion. The hon. gentleman relied on getting £700,000 from tho land fund tor the next five years, but lie did not .tell them bow be was going to get it. Neither did Jio propose to raise a loan with which to proceed. The, colony was at present „in,.debt.,to the extent of £22,000,000, and if the proposals pf. the Public Works Minister [given effect to, the indebtedness of tho

colony would be increased by six and a halt millions, even supposing he got, as lie supposed ho would, £700,000 a year from the laud fund. Instead of getting a million and a quarter of land fund, they would have to get two millions from this source; and he (Major Atkinson) was not so certain that tho land fund would increase or keep up to its present amount. The Government ought to have brought down a loan scheme in connection with these proposals. (Hear, hear.) Before submitting such a scheme as this, they, should hove considered the financial side of the question ; they ought to have made provision for ways and means, which they had certainly failed to do. If their improvident proposals were given effect to by the House, small contractors would be driven out of the field ; rings would be formed of largo capitalists. It was an absolute unfairness to leave the northern part o£ Auckland, tho provincial districts of Nelson and tlie West Coast, out of the schedule to this Bill, while the branch Hues of Otago were carefully looked after. Ho would ask lion, members to refer to tjio schedule, and see the relative amounts that the Government proposed to spend in tho two islands. They proposed to spend £2,700,000 in the North Island; but of this amount £1,600,000 was a mere sham, as the House had been told by tho Minister that tho lines from i’e Awamutu to New Plymouth, aud from Foxtou to Wellington via the West Coast, would not bo begnnuutil the Government had obtained the land from tho natives. • In the South Island the amount proposed to be expended was £3,600,000, and these lines could be begun next week at the pleasure of the Minister for Public Works. The revenues of tho colony could be pledged at any moment the Minister for Public Works chose to construct any of the southern lines, and lie (Major Atkinson) believed that most of these lines would be surveyed before next session, and ready to be contracted for. He would advise tho hon. gentleman to withdraw tho Bill, and leave the control of this matter with the House. If the hon. member wished to have a Bill of his own, and did.not like to go through the ordeal of withdrawing it, then it might be amended in such a manner as to leave the control of tho lines to be undertaken in the hands of the House instead of those of the Government. It was clear that the Government had not given much consideration to this subject. Proper consideration had not been given to the lines enumerated in the schedule, and tho hon. gentleman knew nothing about most of them, and confessed that ho did not. He would challenge tho Attorney-General to deny whether the Public 'Works Minister could not enter into contracts for the making of these lines without coming to the House. It was a monstrous power to give the Government,- and he would sit there any length of time rather than give such a power to any Government. If this Bill became law, the result would bs the building up of a mass of corruption such as had never before been heard of. Every, election would be governed by the “ rings” which the Bill would create, and unless the Government accepted bis advice aud left it to- the House year by year to say what amount of money should be expended, and what linos should be undertaken, he would sit there any length of time in opposing the Bill in its present shape, and would urge that they should go to the country upon it rather than pass a measure which wouM be the source of’ so much corrup* tion in the country. (Cheers.) The Hon. Mr. FOX said the Bill was of a monstrous nature, unparalleled in this or, he supposed* in any other Legislature. It was a great pity that a Bill of such importance should have been brought on at the fag end of the session. (Hear, bear.) Aud it was deplorable to observe the ignorance displayed on the subject by the Minister for Public Works. Ho knew as much about these lines in the North Island as he did of Julius ’Verne’s routes to the moon.. Never did he open his mouth without betraying bis ignorance of all matters connected with the North Island, as far as its geography aud characteristics were concerned. His whole mind seemed to bo wrapped up in that flourishing city which he represented. Ho proposed to bring railways through unknown territories, without furnishing any information to the House. He snapped his fingers,and said, “ We will make a railway through the King country,” aud yet there was not a single paper before the House to show that tho King natives would permit it to be done.- The proposals with regard to tho North Island were shams ; the money could not be expended under the most favorable auspices ou these lines to the moon. ■ There was a proposed appropriation of £116,000 on the Wellington West Coast railway ; this “ balancing” appropriation was a perfect sham ; a great proportion of the land was still in the occupation of the natives, and up to the present time they bad shown no disposition to part with it. Then again, the proposed expenditure on the line from Te Awamntu to New Plymouth was a sham, because the money could not bo spent within the time allowed by tho Bill. The amount put down for the extension of the line beyond Masterton was another sham, for the simple reason that the money could not be spent, if they had it to spend. The Minister for Public Works was also perfectly ignorant of tho country through whioii the railway was to pass. He would ask why should they construct railways through unsettled tracts of country, while other parts alread settled were waiting for railway communication. While the Government proposed to expend nearly £4,000,000 in the Middle Island.they would make the people on the West Coast of the North Island —the finest country in the colony—wait for three years before the fifty miles of line would be completed which would connect Wanganui with New Plymouth. This was exceedingly unfair. He sympathised with the hon. members from the Nelson districts, aud he knew no reason why they should be so unfairly dealt with. It was a cruel thing that they should be wiped altogether from the map of New Zealand. A more objectionable Bill was never brought before tho Parliament of this country. Tho Hon. Mr. BALLANCE said he was very much surprised that the hon. member who had just sat down should make an appeal on behalf of Nelson, when for so many years he was a party to allowing the continuous Ministry to expend so much money in the Middle Island on railway construction, and only proceed with the small line from Nelson to Fox’uill. The hon. '.member for Wanganui was an admirer of the Ministry who did this, ano therefore his appeal on behalf of Nelson camo from him now with a very bad grace indeed. The. charge was made against his hon. colleague (Mr. Macandrew) that he only desired to see railways made in his own part of the colony, but he (Mr. Ballance) could state that there was no line in New Zealand in which his lion, colleague took so great an intrest as the line from tho Hutt to Foxton. With regard to taking the line through the King country, negotiations were now going on, which he hoped would terminato favorably, and the importance of making a railway through that country coaid not be disputed. The bon. member for New Plymouth had expressed doubts as to whether his hon. colleague would get from the Laud Fund the amount he calculated on receiving. He (Mr. Ballance) believed that he would. The hon. member for Now Plymouth blamed the Government for not earning down with some great loan scheme, but he would remind that lion, member that ho himself had failed to bring forward a great loan scheme to carry out his Public Works policy. He went in for borrowing small sums from time to time, in order to carry out his public works in a patchwork kind of way. And then he went in for poliThe Hon. Major ATKINSON said the Colonial Treasurer was entirely misrepresenting the matter. The late Government were carrying out the Public Works policy sanctioned in 1870. He found ho could not bring down such a scheme as he could wish, and therefore, instead of commencing fresh lines of railway, he proceeded with the completion of those already undertaken. Tho Hon. Mr. BALLANCE did not think he had at all misrepresented the action of tho hon. member for New Plymouth when lie was at the head of the continuous Ministry. It was argued against tho proposals of tho present Government that they would interfere with ths construction of branch railways. Such, however, would not be the case. There were at present 120 miles of branch railways under construction by private companies, and he was assured by hon. members who wore in a position to give reliable information on tho subject, that tho making of brancli railways by private companies would increase rather than diminish. It had been stated that tho estimates qs tq tiio amount that would ho derived from tho Land Fund would not bo realised, but it was a positive fact that speculations in land had increased, and were greater now than they had ever been before. The hon. member for New Plymouth thought that this Bill would lead to corruption and tho establishment of land rings. Tho Government did not propose that they should have power given to them to appropriate six and a halt millions; they did not contend for such a power, but, on tho contrary, considered that it should be (loft T° (the House to wake

appropriations from year to year. (Hear, hear.) He would now say a word with regard to the action of the Nelson members. He admitted that from their'point of view there was a great deal to justifv the stand they had taken; but be trusted that when the Bill went into committee such explanations would be afforded ■ as would convince them that justice would,he doue to Nelson, and he hoped an arrangement would be come to whicli would be satisfactory to all parties. The Government proposed to carry out their proposals by means of loan, supplemented by land revenue, and ho believed that next year the Government would be able to show that their calculations had neither been unreasonable nor extravagant. Mr. CARRINGTON said it was a matter of considerable uncertainty whether the lines mentioned in the schedule, so far as rolated to the North Island, could be made for very many years to come. (Hear, hear.) He would vote for the second reading of the Bill, but ho should like .to know what the Government proposed to do witli the money which could not be expended in tho North Island lines ? . Captain RUSSELL characterised the proposals of the Government with regard to the North Island lines as a pure electioneering advertisement. This was the most iniquitous Bill ho had ever read in that House. It seemed to him to be a deliberate attempt to construct railways iu Otago out of loan, aud to construct those in the North Island out of Land Fund when they got it ; and if they did not get tho land, they would have no railways at all. Allusion had been made by the Colonial Treasurer to what he termed the continuous Ministry. It was his (Captain Russell’s) opinion that the time was not far distant when tho present occupants of those beaches would be succeeded by a body of men who would do justice to all parts of tho colony. (Hear, hear) Mr. MONTGOMERY said that with regard to tho question of ways and means it was evident that the money must bo provided out of loan and Land Fund. No loan could be sanctioned until next year, and therefore they could only rely on Laud Fund witli which to make a commencement of these lines; He would remind thn Hon. tho Colonial Treasurer that a great deal of the speculation in land had been conducted on borrowed capital, on which a larger interest would have to be paid; aud he apprehended there might be such a falling off in tho land revenue as would neoes sitate further taxation. Monied men might pull tho purse - strings so tightly as to occasion a very undesirable crisis in tho colony. He remembered the state of affairs in 1870, and ho apprehended that such a thing might occur again. Under these circumstances it was necessary they should proceed with cave and caution in the matter of railway construction. It was strongly advisable that no lines should be undertaken that would not, prove advantageous to the colony. (Hear, hear.) He would put it to the Colonial Treasurer whether he had not taken too sanguine a view of things. He (Mr, Montgomery) would vote for the second reading of this Bill in the hope that it would be modified in Committee, and if it wore not modified to the extent he desired, he should vote against the third reading. (Hear, hear.) He thought the honorable gentleman ought to content himself with asking the House to grant him £400,000, iu order that such portions of lines should be proceeded with as the House considered desirable ; and next year the Government could come down to the House witli full information, after having made the necessary surveys, as to the Bills which should take precedence. Under all the circumstances, he would urge,the exercise of prudence, and he did not think the Government should seek to have conferred upon it such large powers as the Bill now under consideratiou proposed to confer upon it. (Hear, hear.) Mr. SAUNDERS referred to the demoralising position into which the hon. members from Nelson bad put themselves, by getting up and ■ almost stating what price they expected for their votes. They were not all bo cautious as the hon. member (Mr. Curtis) ; some of them told the Government that even a few miles would please them. If the Government wished to keep up the credit of the colony, it was their duty to make railways where they would pay, and not through native lands, cr through unfertile tracks where they never ceuld be made to pay. If “ political ” railways were to be made, then bo could foresee nothing else for the country but disaster. (Hear, hear.) Mr. J. E. BROWN considered that Nelson and Marlborough had been unfairly dealt witli, and lie thought both Otago and Canterbury could afford to give up a portion of the money proposed to be spent there, in order that something should be done for Marlborough and Nelson. He would not pledge himself to support a vote against any of tho lines enumerated in the schedule of this BUI. He would listen to tho arguments brought forward by hon. members, and be would record his vote according to tlie best of bis judgment. (Hear, hear.) Mr. GIBBS repudiated the statements of the hon. member for Cheviot that the Nelsou members were ready to sell their votes for a few miles of railway. What they desired was only justice, and the Nelson members would not give way to any hon. members of that House in a desire to see such lines of railway undertaken as would contribute to the progress of tho colony as a whole. Mr. WAKEFIELD said the debate on this Bill would be practically thrown away, after the statement which had been made by the Minister that certain modifications would be proposed in committee. He had seen an opinion expressed by a person living at a distance to the effect that hon. members would be madmen or fools if they passed such a Bill as this. That being the opinion outside, it was quite right that hon. members should express their opinions on the measure as it was brought down. In his opinion, tills Bill had been thrown together two or three weeks ago. No hon. member, having in view the safety of the colony, could support such a Bill. If it were passed, financial disaster would follow unless some unforseon and very improbable circumstance arose iu favor of the Government. The hon. member commented ou the want of information shown by the Minister for Fnblio Works with referenoo to several lines mentioned in the schedule. The hon. the Colonial Treasurer had spoken of what be termed the continuous Ministry. That "hon. member should be tlie last to taunt those bon. gentlemen as being the continuous Ministry. Could that hon. member deny that three days before his aspostasy he was present discussing in the most confidential manner tho affairs of the Slate. Tho Hon.MrBALLANCE; Yes, positively. Mr. WAKEFIELD continued to say that when the continuous Ministry, as he called it, began to totter, it served tho turn of the Colonial Treasurer to turn round upon them arid plot their ruin. Ho actually deluded the continuous Ministry, as he called it, into the belief that up to within a few hours of turning against them he was one of tho staunchest friends of the lion, member for Egmbnt in the hour of need. The SPEAKER thought the hon. member was travelling away from the subject under discussion. The Hon. Mr, BALLANCE said the statements of the hon. member were without foundation. The Hon. Major ATKINSON : I beg to say that the statements of the hon. member for Geraldine are true. Mr. WAKEFIELD : I accept the statement of hon. friend in preference to til at of tho Colonial Treasurer - . It is merely a matter of choice between the two, and I accept the statement of tho hon. member for Mount Egmont in preference to the other, Mr. MONTGOMERY: As a matter of order, X think the hon. member for Mount Egmont ought not to have interfered, Mr. WAKEFIELD went on to refer to the worthless nature of the Bill in its present shape, and to express a hope that it would bo considerably' modified in committee, and to advocate that the Government should make larger immigration proposals than they had done. Mr. MOSS asked tho Opposition not to throw any obstacle in tho way of the passing of this measure, but to think of those who were struggling in the wilderness and patiently waiting for the country ao bo opened up by railways. He hoped that the House would now go to a division, and that those lion, members who had spoken against the Bill would, in their better moments, be found voting witli the ayes. Captain KENNY believed the Bill to be an unconstitutional one, brought in to tic tho hands not only of this Parliament but tho next. In vulgar parlance, it was, a “ try-on,” which he hoped the House would resent. Ho appealed to tho sense of justice’ and fair play of the House to sob that no injustice was done to Marlborough in the future, and be trusted that his hopes would bo justifled by results. Dr. HENRY rot only sympathised with tbo Nelson members, but would act with them in this matter.' Mr. REEVES would support tho .sepond reading, and would endeavor to have tho BUI slightly modified in comiaitteo.| \

After some remarks from Messrs. McMinn, Rolleston, ancl“ the' Hou. Mr. Macandrew, in reply, • . . ; . Mr. Ourtia' amendment for the reading of the BUI this day six months was negatived by 45 toll. "■■■' The Bill was 1 read a second time on the voices, and ordered to be committed to-morrow, ' BILLS ADVANCED. Several bills were advanced a stage. The House adjourned near dayi { ght.