MINISTERIAL STATEMENT ON NATIVE AFFAIRS.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5473, 11 October 1878, Page 6

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT ON NATIVE AFFAIRS.

At a quarter to 8 o’clock on Tuesday, September 17, all the galleries of the House'of Representatives were crowded, except that set apart for the accommodation of members of the Legislative Council, in which there was not a single occupant, when the following Statement was delivered; —

The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN rose for the purpose of making his Statement on Native Affairs, and was loudly cheered. After bespeaking the Indulgence of the House in con* sequence of temporary indisposition, he said ; Sir, —The time has passed when a statement of native affairs assumes anything of a sensational character. Wo have done carrying on an internecine war. Matters have so far advanced nowadays that peaceful settlement is the ordinary condition of the country. (Hear, hear.) But, sir, although statements on native affairs in these halcyon days may be wanting in affording matter for sensational telegrams, I think a thoughtful fair statement as to the present position of the native race will always meet with careful attention at the hands of this House. (Hear, hear.) It has not been usual to make a statement on native affairs in this House. I think I myself set the example last year. Previously wo had what was called a native affairs statement, but it was simply a very dry Ministerial record of native land transactions, containing very large papers, showing very large apparent results —results not always verified by facts. Last year I went outside that groove, and I propose going outside the groove to night, and I think it a wise political step. X propose not only to give a history of our management of it, but a vindication, and as far as possible to give evidence in proof of our good management. The Native Department has always been a mysterious one ; probably there has been too much mystery about it, although I know from experience that there are times when matters BhouUVuofe.go outside the Native Minister’s offices, and when, it is undesirable even to let this House into the confidence of the office Still I believe in the past that hasbeen carried to an extreme, and I propose to-night, except in some few essential matters, to take tho House into the fullest possible confidence on all aspects of the question—giving hon. members the same information as I have myself. (Applause.) Before going into details X might ask the House to look back upon what was the condition of the Native question when we came into office, I gay unhesitatingly .that the position of the Native question then was uusatisfactoryindeed. In the first place, negotiations with that body of the native people who are yet estranged from us had apparently ceased. The Government seemed to have given it up as a bad job, and had ceased to attempt to arrive at any terms with them whereby the country might be opened to European settlement and enterprise. It would bo impossible for me within the limits I can claim from the House to state in what condition the Land Purchase Department was in. The gravest complications had arisen, and we had reason to believe that at least three-fourths of the money spent in negotiating native lands would be lost. In various places the surveys had been stopped, trig, stations broken down, and the surveyors themselves deprived of their instruments. The Native Lauds Court could not succeed in various parts of tho country; especially was that the casein Maketuand at the Thames, where we had interests pending iu hundreds of thousands of acres. Then, on the West Coast large areas of valuable land, which had been taken in payment for rebellion, had been allowed to lie untouched so long, that, in point of fact, the original Mauri owners had begun to think we had given the lands up and were occupied in leasing it to private Europeans, Coming down overland from Auckland to Wanganui .one day, I found a European driving his cattle over tho Waimate Plains. I inquired what was* his business, and found he had actually leased some land from tho natives. A few days afterwards he received a summons for trespassing on Crown lands, which was upheld by the Court, and he soon gave up the occupation. Besides that, there was great snpineneas I think in following up the law. Offences of all kinds were allowed to pass untouched, and it was looked upon as a matter of course. This want of apparent courage in the administration of public affairs had a most damaging effect. Besides that, and arising out of these causes, there was a general discontent among the whole body of the native population from one end of the colony to the other, arising from a want of confidence in tho good faith of the Government administering the public affairs, and there was'a want of faith iu the justice and impartiality of this House. That discontent mainly arose from this fact—that for several years past high officers of State and subordinates officers had been engaged in acquiring native land for their own personal use and benefit; that when in fact they, seemed to be acquiring land for the State, or for individual Europeans, they were really acquiring large estates at low prices for their own personal benefit. (Hear, hear?) Then, again, to make matters still worse, we had all over the country, sometimes in organised bauds, very powerful opposition to Government action by private land purchasers —opposition which I do not hesitate to declare to have approached the confines of treason—an opposition which, if discovered and traced home to the parties instigating it, would have led to some of them being brought before the Courts of Law. Sir, I think the House will admit that this was formerly the state of affairs, (Government Supporters : Hear, hear.) Now, I wish to ask in what aspect these matters now stand, I believe I will be able to make good what I said at the opening. I shall vindicate our management during the past, and be able to show we are fit and proper persons to be entrusted with the management of native affairs in the future. The first difference wo made on coming into office was that we endeavored to establish what may be called a face-to-face policy—a policy which would enable us to see where grievances existed, and to determine the justice of the complaints of the native people, and this wo did by visiting tho Maoris in their own settlements and beholding them with our own eyes. That policy wo have carried out. Since I have been in office I have visited every important settlement in the North Island—l may say every such settlement from the North Cape to Kaiapoi in the South Island- I have seen the greater proportion of the native people, heard on the spot their complaints, and listened to ; their suggestions. I have advised, assisted, and I think I have restored confidence in the colony. It may be said these great grievances do not exist, butl think the natives have grievances, and I may give out of many hundreds of cases one in point—the one which the hon. member for Southern Maori brought before the House when he asked me a question with reference to the Ngatitoa people in the Nelson Province. I made enquiry into that matter, when I found that 5000 acres of land was twenty-seven years ago awarded to these people, and they had never been placed in possession of it. Of tho persons to whom the laud was awarded a large number have died, and if it were kept Irora them a few years more there would be no one left to take it. You may depend upon it these people have many such grievances, and it will bo our endeavor to remove them, and carry out promises and awards in good faith. Wherever I find applications to the Government supported by good evidence or reasonable probability, even though the evidence be verbal, I shall prefer admitting such claims, and so keeping the honor of the colony, rather than raise legal quibbles Iu answer to the claim**. (Applause). There does appear to have been a great want of nerve and decision in the conduct of native affairs since the death of Sir Donald McLean. Native land purchasing was practically left alone, and other matters which ought to have had the most careful attention did not receive that attention. I will give a case iu illustration. Last session tho then native lands purchase commissioner for the Thames and Tauranga, a most competent man, who had spent £OO,OOO or £70,000 for the Government in the purchase of lands, was actually here iu Wellington waiting about for a settlement of his claims. Instead of that settlement taking place at the Thames, where he should have remained to prevent the spoliation of tho Government estate, he was down here. He could not carry out his purchases, and he was bound to come here for tho purpose of getting a settlement. I do not blame him, but that settlement ought to have been made at once, and he should have cither been sent back to complete tho work or else sent about his business entirely and somebody else put in his place. Before taking up some of these larger questions X might express to the House the views of the Government on what may bo called the social aspect of tho question. I will first of all deal with the increase or tho decrease of the Maori population. Iu 1871, as I last year informed tho House, tho native population was about 40,000. This year, although tho actual returns have not yet been compiled, I understand the return will show au increase. It la upon that point I wish particularly to address the House, Thg

figures, as I will show presently, are fallacious, and that arises from this fact: We have no difficulty in getting correct returns of the population so far as tho more civilised centres of the country are concerned, ' and our means of getting at tho total population increase year by year, but we have no means and have had no means of getting at the figures so faV as the out-districts are concerned. Hence as time goes on, and we get to know more about these places, the returns become more complete, and the population is larger than was supposed; but that does not prove that the population is increasing. Tho figures which will bo presented to the House will, I am sorry to say, confirm the statement I made last year that the Maori people as a people are disappearing rapidly, and unless some exertion be made to prevent it tho time is not far distant when there will be no survivor of that race. Twill just show whafc the effect is of the figures applying to the more richly-peopled district*. For instance, Hokianga, Bay of Island*, Maugouui, Whangarei, Kaipara, Tauranga, Maketu and the Lakes, and Opotiki. Taken together these districts may bo considered more reliable than others, the returns being collected by tho same officers in 1374 and 1873* Jlh© total of these districts, male and female, iu 1874, was 16,441; in 1878,14,475; showing a decrease of 1966 in four years, or 12 per cent. The .decrease Is further apparent when we consider the difference between the males and females, the former being 7930, the latter 6545, or 17 per cent. Any gentleman who knows anything of tho subject must know what that means—that the race will soon become extinct. If the House will bear with me I will devote a very small space of my time to a continuation of what may be regarded as tho fairly assignable cause' of this decrease. I irst and foremost I must put the intemperate habits of the race as a race. There isno question about it that for many years past, for the past ton years at any rate, intemperance has greatly increased amongst them, tho result being most disastrous on men, women, and children, who have completely given themselves up to it. Children die off for want of attention, and the old people die after wasting their substance in bush public-houses. In mauy cases no doubt it is also due to their communistic habits. I do not believe for a moment that their salvation can be accomplished until their mode of living is improved. So long as they live in rude huts, without ventilation, huddled up together in the miserable fashion they now are, they must die off, except there is much greater mental activity, and improvement in their mode of living. A report laid upon the table of the House from the Taupo District, which hon. members would do well to read, refers to another cause. There is no doubt that the diet is capable of great improvement. My friend Kewi telegraphed to me the other day in reference to Judge Thomas, giving as one reason why he objected to Ryotwarry that the natives of India bad to live principally upon rice ; but the Maori people do not live upon anything at all superior to rice as an article of diet. Their diet is of a very poor kind indeed, as any person who may have had to stop at a badly off native settlement must have realised to his cost, and unless we induce the natives to take a better diet nothing we can do will have any effect. In the report which I have just referred to a remark is made which I believe will be confirmed by the experience of every person who has given the question attention that is the condition of the half-castes, that they are superior in physique to either the Maori or the European parent. That I believe to be absolutely correct. Taken as a whole they are superior in physique either to the Maori European parent. At the sme time, whether the superiority will show itself mentally is not so certain up to the present time. But you must bear this in mind, the greater proportion of the men have gone back to live with their Maori relations, and to fall in with the native habits and, customs. Auother encouraging feature iu regard to the people is the revival of the religious feeling. Tills is uumistakeable. From the extreme north of this island to the south there does exist a very deep desire to return to tho religions of the past in favor of the Church of England, the Roman Catholics, and the Wesleyans. They are building churches, providing for ministers, and showing every disposition to go back to the form of worship of earlier days, which they forsook for Hauhauisra. At the Hilcurangi, where they had given up all forms .of worship, this was noticeable, —at that place at the same hour, at the same moment of time, four different kinds of worship were going on. There was our own—the orthodox one of course—there was the Hauhau worship; thirdly, there was the Tareao; and lastly, there was the new form of worship instituted by Te Kooti, going on. .Ihold that the policy of *the Government is to refrain from interfering with this religious matter. (Hear, hear.) The other day when in Napier I was visited by a deputation who said that some natives had broken down the pound,., at Matia because they believed in the Te Kooti form of religion, and they wanted me to interfere. I found however, that the people who pulled down the pound had been induced to do so, not because of any form of worship, but because they claimed the land on which the pound stood. They wanted me to pub down Te Kootiism, but I replied that I could not interfere with Te Kootiism so long as those who professed it did not break the law. I think that was the proper course. (Hear, hear.). We must leave education and the advance of civilisation to show them the fallacies and follies of such ft system. There is another kind of worship to which I might refer—that is tho religion taught by Te Whitt I have been quite, unable to obtain precise information as to the position in which he places himself in the divinity, but I believe it consists of an alternation from the first person down to the third. At the same time I must admit ho has greatly improved the conduct of his adherents, and that is the great point. (Hear, hear.) With regard to intemperance, notwithstanding what I have said before, I must say I noticed with respect to the East Coast of the North Island, Napier and the King country, and some parts of the West Coast, a much smaller amount of drunkenness, •and the Government have had repeated applications to take steps to repress the liquor traffic, in consequence of which I intended to ask the House to adopt some means to put down the introduction, use, and sale of spirituous liquors in native districts. Xho.se who were present at the meetings at Waikato and Waitara must have remarked upon the absence of drunkenness among the natives who ■ were present. The natives discovered a European who had secreted two bottles of rum on his person, and forthwith he was turned out of the camp, and not a single case of drunkenness occurred during the whole meeting. X am quite anxious that this liquor trade should be put down, and I shall ask the House to give the matter full consideration. I have come to the conclusion that it would be impossible to put the Sale of Spirits Ordinance into force. Any law whereby you can prevent a man entering a public-house would, I think, have a most disastrous effect. You can do far better by giving tho natives means to keep their own settlements free, and I intend to ask the House to agree to a measure something of this nature: The Governor himself, or at the request of native people in a district, may bring the Act into operation. That being done, the district is proclaimed, and iu that district there shall be no licensed house, and no spirituous liquors may be sold, and even the use of such liquors, except for medicinal purposes, will be an offence under the Act. We shall ask the natives themselves to assist in carrying out that Act, aud in fining the people who break through its provisions, and if we can succeed in enlisting their aid, as I think wo shall, we shall do more than by any mere acts of our.own, (Hear, hear.) I will now say a few words in regard to the progress of education among the natives. We have now fifty village schools in operation, During the year six schools wore closed for causes to which 1 shall refer bearing upon the general question; two wero opened. The attendance of children at tho schools during tho year has been better than in any former year, not only in numbers but in regularity of attendance. On Juno 30 the attendance was 2020, as compared with 1920 during the previous year, or an iucrase of 109. That is satisfactory. Last year we spent £13,124, and this year we propose to spend £14,500, and we propose to establish boarding schools, to which X shall refer presently. I have seen the operation of these schools at various places during tho recess, and I have come to the conclusion that the native school system will ultimately fail aka means of education unless its machinery bo supplemented iu some other way. Xu tho lust place it will fail because they require bettor masters, and to achieve this object wo have put a sum on the Estimates for the purpose of increasing the salaries of tho masters all round, iu order to tempt a better class of men into tho service. Up to the present time it has been tho practice to make native schools kinds of asylums to which broken down people who have tried everything else aud failed might repair—in which ; men who have spent their substance in riotous living, or spent their

substance in drink, might find a refuge. That sort of thing ought to be put a stop to, and we ought to have men of good moral character and standing to take charge of the education of these children, But even if we get those superior men the system will fail to accomplish tho desired object if no other change takes place. Up to the present time wo have simply taught tho children a certain amount of English. Now, anyone who has had to visit these settlements either on Government or any other business, must have noticed that the worst type of man to be found there is the Maori half-caste who can just understand English. They seem to have no business, and no resources, and their only pursuit is to make mischief. They have not been sufficiently educated to enable them to earn a living among Europeans, and they return to the savage state, retaining the worst elements in each character. We propose, then, to establish whatlmay term boarding schools, into which children who have attained a certain degree of perfection iu the village schools may be drafted, there to be so further taught as will prevent them lapsing back to. the old state. They will be thoroughly civilised. It will bo well for the House to consider this. During the past few mouths we have had numerous applications from Maoris to send their children to European schools, because they are really anxious to see their children educated. Only a few days ago I had a letter from Rewi, who has a grandson attending a school in Auckland, on the subject of his education. This is a stop which I think will prevent the system breaking down. Sir, it has been the earnest endeavor of the department to which I belong to endeavor as much as possible to give to the native children as great an amount of education as possible, and to bring that education into practical use in my department as much as possible by the employment of the children of Maori people. Tho experiment in this direction has been made on several occasions, with, I am glad to say, the highest results. I will mention an instance which I am certain will satisfy the House on this head. A young man was brought down by me from the Waikato a few months ago and put in the Telegraph Office. Subsequently he wanted to get to some place down near his people, and I propofed to send him to Onehunga. The head of tho department did not want to have to have him sent to Onehunga, but proposed that he should go to Oamaru ; and when I asked the reason for preferring to send the lad to ( Oaraaru I was told that it would be unfair 'io send him to Onehunga and deprive him of tho promotion to which he would be entitled, as he had proved himself so useful iu the department. I believe that iu the course of time a number of Maori y-juths will find their way into the public service, and be of considerable assistance in that career of life. (Hear, hear.) In the case to which I refer, the lad will be of great assistance iu such a department as the Telegraph Department, where it often happens that telegrams are sent iu Maori to those who do not understand the language, which is also not understood by the clerks who transmit and receive the messages. One important feature in the question as it now stands is that there is a disposition to allow mixed schools, and in the native schools now maintained by us a considerable number of European children, are also to be found. This amalgamation of the races has dono a great deal of good ; it has broken down the social banders which formerly existed to a very considerable extent, and I hope r J;hat in a short time the country will see an enormous aud satisfactory result flowing from the fact of Maori anti European children receiving education in the same school, Xu connection with this subject there is one matter to which I must refer; I know it is a debateable point. I refer, sir, to the failure on the part of religious bodies to vvtilise the endowments that were given to them both by tho Maori people themselves aud by the Government. (Hear, hear.) This failure has been conspicuous throughout the whole of the colony. Religious bodies have taken largo areas of land from the Maoris to educate the Maori children, and they have failed to utilise these- lands, or, if they have utilised them, it has been to their own use and benefit, and not to the objects for which the endowments were originally made and intended. (Hear, hear.) I believe, therefore, that the time has come when the House should compel these religious bodies either to make use of tho land for the purposes of the trust, or give them back, in order that they might bo utilised. (Hear, hear.) There is one point, sir, upon which the House will be asked to legislate this year, and that is in regard to the formation of the jury list. (Hear, hear.) As the law now stands, of course the Governor can at once place every Maori having the qualification required by law upon the jury list, bub I do not think myself that is a desirable thing to do, nor do I think the Maoris themselves would ask it ; but I think we should make provision to the extent that in matters affecting themselves they should not only be spectators of what goes on, but should also have some representation on the jury list. I will quote one special case, which shows the necessity for this. . We had this murder case Occurring at Waiapu recently, and the evidence taken before the runauga was so complete that at the magisterial investigation which followed they could not elicit a single additional fact before the magistrate. I have had a telegram from him, and he informs mo that the evidence taken before the runanga was of the most complete and satisfactory character. This will show that the Maoris bawe a judicial turn of mind. It is only fair to them, I think, that in cases affecting themselves they should know they could be present, not merely as spectators, but to bear the evidence and give a verdict upon it. (Hear, hear.) There may be people, and I am sorry to say there are a few, who think that our Maori is a liar, a rogue, ami a thief from the beginning. I do not hold that doctrine, and I will say this much—that it is ray firm conviction that if, instead of repressing the Maoris, we do everything In our power to make them feel on an equality with ourselves, it will result most advantageously to the whole country.- (Hear, hear.) The proper course for us to adopt is to show them that they are on a level with ourselves, aud that it U no fraud to call them British subjects. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the question of Maori representation, I said last night that I would state what the Government propose to do* with reference to this question. It is one of a very difficult character, one upon which hon, members of this House entertain various opinions, aud one upon which I believe the good government of this country depends for several years to come. (Hear, hear.) Many hon. members think there should be no special representation. I say myself that the time is coming when it will nob bo required, but at tho present time I believe it is a necessity. Other hon, members say to the Maoris; “We shall give you special representation, and that only, but you shall take no part in the election of European members to this House.” Iu the abstract, I believe that proposition to be true, but I want you to bo boar this in mind ; We are on the eve now, I believe, of finishing up once and for ever all cause of seriflms trouble so far as the natives are concerned, and I would not like it if, in the middle of those arrangements, and while they are pending between ourselves and the Maori people, anything was done which would have the effect of widening any differences that it is necessary to settle as soon as possible. Therefore, in the matter of Maori representation, I should for tho present leave it as it now is. I would propose to abolish thehousehold and leasehold qualification, and withhold manhood suffrage, and give them only a freehold qualification, which they have now under tfie existing law. At present they can register under a leasehold, household, or freehold qualification ; but if wu limit it to freehold only, and leave thorn their present number of members until next year, wo shall bo doing a wise thing, and for this reason : I believe that one of tho outcomes of tho settlement of this great question will ho that you will have added to tho other branch of the | Legislature the benefit of tho deliberations of one of tho principal chiefs, perhaps the greatest chief, in the Waikato; mid I hope in this House also to have added to its number one or two of their leading men. I should prefer, however, to have that left an open question lor discussion between ourselves and those chiefs when wc return to Waikato, ami I will, for these reasons, ask tho House to go with me to that extent. It is impossible for this House to comprehend the question as fully as a person who is called upon to consider it from every point of view. Hon members must place in mo their confidence in tho administration of tho department over which I preside, and I assure you that T believe that the fair settlement of this question will be an essential m the way of promoting . good government amongst tho Maori people. Sir, I come now to a debateablesubject, namely, our negotiations with-the King party, and on that subject tlio House will pardon mo if I refer to a speech which I made last session. I very seldom go back to Jlansavd- either for myself or anybody else, but I will read to tho House what I said last year on this particular point. It is as follows I do not fora moment pretend to way that wo can. by going up there and by interviewing the Kiu£ Icr a

few hours, settle at oiico and for ever the King difficulty. It is quite possible we might fall even.at a long interview ; it might necessitate even further correspondence and negotiations. Hut I only claim Mils much for the Government: that we go there invited to go there ; that wo go there witli a certain amount of good reputation in our favor; and that the people themselves are anxious to moot us, audare hopeful of a satisfactory settlement being come to. It may bo that the demands made by them will bo demands wliioh we, regarding the interests of the colony, cannot afford to concede; and for my part 1 would be no party to a concession which would materially affect our interests, weaken the respect which wo areentitled to in the eyes of the native people, or render to the natives residing in the King country more than they ore entitled to as a matter of justice and fair play. X shall be glad if the result of our interview will be a settlement of this King difficulty, and, if it be, I shall ho still further glad if within no distant time wo shall have present in tills flense as a member of it some loading chief cither of the Waikato or the Kgatimaniopoto tribe.

That was the feeling which I had then, and I may say, sir, that my anticipations have resulted infinitely better than I myself expected at the time. Shortly after we came into office, this House was informed that a telegram had come from the Maori King inviting us to go and see him and his people. Honorable gentlemen in opposition had several theories : about this telegram. One theory was that no such telegram had ever come ; the second was that if it ever came, it did not come from the proper person ; the third was that we would not go and meet the King ; and the fourth wa«, that even if we did go and see the Maori King, no good would come out of it. I am glad to say that in all these theories the hon, gentlemen of the Opposition have been wrong. The anticipations we then held on the subject have been more than realised. As a matter of fact, it was not one invitation, or two invitations, or a dozen, invitations, but for days after we had come into office, and before going to the Waikato, we received telegrams of the most entreating character, supplicating ns, in fact, to go into the district to meet the King and his people. One absolute result—(l am not saying of the change of Government)—-that followed the accession of the present Government to office was the invitation of the King party to meet them, for the purpose of settling those questions which had remained in abeyance for so many years, ever since those people went from us. Honorable members on the opposite side of the House may say wbat they like, and newspapers may say what they like also, but there is no doubt whatever that the accession to office of Sir George Grey led to those negotiations between ourselves and the King natives. I have heard statements made with regard to the influence which Sir G. Grey has amongst the Maori people. I believed myself at one time that many of our friends built too much on that influence, but from what I now know I am prepared to say that but for his coming into office there would have been no satisfactory settlement of the question, nor would the negotiations which were undertaken have been carried to a successful issue. (Hear, hear.) The government of the Maori people is essentially a personal government. My hon. friend was to their mind for many years the Governor of this colony. Even after responsible institutions had come into force he was called Kawana Kerei; and even after he had settled down into private life he was never thought of or spoken of except as Kawana Kerei. I have heard gentlemen complain, and aeon newspapers complain, that he allowed the Maoris to address him as Kawana when he was not Governor, but I assure you that if he stopped to correct them he would be doing nothing else but calling them to order at their various meetings. We had four meetings with the King people. The first one was held near Alexandra, which was to arrange the business that should be discussed. The second meeting was at Hikurangi, when about 4000 or 5000 people were present, including the principal tribes then living estranged from us, and several important and influential chiefs.. At that meeting certain proposals were made to the King party, which proposals are in print and on the table of this House. These proposals were chiefly received as a settlement of the question, and X have now an absolute and positive assurance that so far as the King party is concerned they are prepared to accept them, and upon the basis of those proposals the question is now absolutely settled. At the Hikurangi meeting there was a marked absence of Kewi Maniopoto, the principal chief of the Maniopoto tribe, and one of our staunchest opponents in the late war—a man whom the X’remier justly described as a true and gallant soldier. Hou. members remember well the story of Orakan. Tins was the last battle of the war. After defending that pa for two days, and refusing several offers to surrender, Howl, the brave leader of a forlorn hope, took his people right over the trenches where our men were at work, and escaped into the wood. We saw Rewi subsequently at Te Kuiti, and had an interview with him of a very satisfactory character, on the strength of which it was decided that we should meet him at Waitara. At that time we had people good enough to say that Eowi had no intention to meet us at Waitara, and that even if he did he would not accept our proposals. Xu refutation of that, I can only appeal to those who were present for information to the effect that the Waitara meeting was called at XXewi'S own instance, to invite a full and satisfactory settlement of tiro differences then existing between the two races. There has been a great deal of misrepresentation as to what took place at the Waitara meeting. It has been said that iu the eyes of the outside world a wrong was done to the colony, and that we lost strength in the eyes of the Moris themselves, but I can only say this much—X believe myself that the Waitara meeting was the keystone of the arch; at that meeting conclusions were come to which had a powerful effect throughout the whole length and breadth of the island. As a proof of the lona Jides of these negotiations, I have only to refer to the results that have ensued ; full proofs of the bona Jidcs of these negotiations have since then been afforded in abundance, and all persons who arc acquainted with the Maori mind know that these proofs are as true as Holy Writ. Coming back to the Hikurangi meeting, some person may remember that I brought with mo from Hikurangi, right down from the heart of the Waikato to his grandfather's tomb, and up to the northern side of the Waikato, the King's son, who was to be named Tayvhiao the Third. For the first time in his life he catno into a European settlement; 'he travelled iu a steamer for the first time, and on the railway for tho first time, and not only did ho come and see those things for himself, but he . gave mo his assistance iu settling some questions between myself and the Ngatirakawau tribe. Ever since these meetings took place, no important steps are taken amongst tho Maoris themselves without first communicating with myself or tho Premier. They wire ai>d write to us, and we advise them as of old, before the war in tho Waikato drove them from our side. I could produce sheaves of letters and telegrams received from tho Maoris on various subjects, from sending a child to school up to the next meeting at Waitara. Every step is taken with the advice and concurrence of the Government. And we might contend oil that ground alone that the nock of tho question has been broken. The construction of the Raglan road- -a matter which would have been opposed not many months ago—is now going on, and upon it we are employing some of those very natives from whom but a few months, ago there would have been considerable opposition to the work. I will go beyond that again, and X would remind the House that some years ago some establishments at Kawhia Harbor were burnt down, and the harbor closed by the King natives against tho Europeans. Tho people wero expelled from the place, and no Europeans dare go there. An old gentleman whose store was. burnt down has gone back to reside there, ond I believe myself that tlie old gentleman to whom I am now referring has some intention of bringing down a Harbor Bill for Kawhia—(laughter)— because he has been at Raglan several times lately making inquiries about pilotage, harbor dues, wharf duos, &c, aud I shall not bo surprised if ho asks for a harbor hoard aud a large endowment. Wo shall make no objection, uxcopt ask him to endow the harbor himself.- (Laughter.) Then, again, ns an evidence of this alteration of feeling on tho part of tho Maoris, I will point out to you what has taken place on the West Coast witli regard to tho' steamer Hana Mokau. Tho Hana Mokau is a steamer which has been built to trade between New Plymouth, Waitara, Mokau, Kawhia, and Manukau ; she is owned to some extent by Maoris, and one of the shareholders is Rewl himself ; aud considering that ha is owner of tho laud and tho loader of tho people in (hat part of tho country, I don't think I can offer a better illustration of tho change of feeling that has been created on the part of the natives. Now I come to even a more significant fact, ns showing tho complete establishment of harmonious relations between ourselves and the Maoris ; when I say complete establishment I don't include certain details .such as railways, &c., about which negotiations have yet to take place. Tho House will remember that shortly after the session was opened it was determined to undertake the survey of the Waimate Plains. Representations wore made to Rewi, asking him to use his influence and step iu with a view that the survey should not be stopped.

Ho telegraphed that ho entirely approved of. the purvey being made. The House will re*, member that these were lauds taken in.., rebellion. You will observe what a change has come over the mind of this great man. Other evidence of the result of this meeting, I contend, is furnished by this undeniable fact, that tho spirit, of law and order has spread over the whole of this island. I will, prove that by taking up the time of the House only to such amextent as is necessary to establish my proposition, I. will take, first of all, tho Native Land Court at Maketu. There, for three years in succession, although the Government had thousands and' thousands of acres of land awaiting investigation, they had been compelled to postpone the sitting of the Court. Ministers had gone down over and over again. Large sums of money were spent, but all to _ no purpose. There wero two large bodies of armed natives at variance with each other. I was pressed to go down there for two months, but I declined, because I did not wish to create an impression .on the mind of the Maoris that the Native Minister was there to influence the decision of the Court. But when I found that the Court which had been appointed to sit was being stopped, I went down, and in a few days I was successful in having the Court held, and removing the arms from the contending parties. I will take the case of Turakino. There for years past the Government were unable to make a line of telegraph or a line of road,' and every attempt that was made to erect the telegraph, or construct the road, was interrupted. The bridges wero torn up and tho timber burnt, but since we have come into office that state of things has practically ceased. In the course of a few days; in fact, before the debate on tho Bill I intend to bring down is over, we shall 1 have obtained the concession to make the road and establish' a line of telegraph there. (Hear, hear) I will take the case of this laud on the West Coast now under survey for the purposes of settlement. If there be one thing more than another I am entitled to say to hon. members on the opposite side of the House, it is that there has been a want of generous admission of our policy during the recess. (Hear, hear.) Our acts aro, of course, open to fair criticism, but no fair dealing man will be prepared to deny the fact that we have made substantial progress upon the West Coast of this island. We have acquired, and are acquiring, large areas of confiscated land, and are maintaining law and order aud vindicating the law. In the case of the Waimate Plains, when I was in that part of the country I was met by a large body of Maoris, who told mo the old story—“ You must not survey Waitotara, because if you do there will be trouble,” meaning thereby disturbances and possibly a breach of the peace. My answer was, “ Here is Major Brown, Civil Commissioner. I have given him instructions to survey. . If there be any trouble it will fall on you ; if you commit a breach of the peace we shall take the necessary steps to prevent a repetition.” The leader of that party was a person who came down last session with a petition, and the House, having pity on his petition, awarded him 1500 acres of laud., I said to him, “ Very well, if you oppose our survey, I shall reconsider the propriety of giving you a grant of 1500 acres.” What was the result ? When they came to survey the block, they found he had gone to Wanganui to play billiards. (Laughter.) The Waimate Plains was an entirely different thing. The land had been unclaimed by the Government for years, and was occupied by Titokowaru and his people, who were in rebellion, and could not be said down to tho present time to have come in. I was warned on every side not to attempt to prosecute that survey, and told that if I did, it would end in a breach of the peace. In connection with this part of the subject I think that I must pass a well-deserved compliment to a gentleman on the West Coast, who has assisted very materially in bringing about the present satisfactory result with regard to these plains. The advice and suggestions ho has given to me I found I could rely on, and had it not been for the fact that he was with me iu the determination to survey tho Waimate Plains, I don’t believe the work could have been carried out. I believe in giving honor where honor is due, aud I think a large lot of honor is due to Major Brown, Civil Commissioner. (Hear, hear.) Even today I saw a letter received from the Waikato, in which the writer tells the person lie writes to that he_ looked forward with the gravest apprehension to a breach of the peace, and on the day he’ sot down to write he obtained the papers from the South stating that the survey was going on without opposition. Here is another case. In this very country, further into tho heart of the unsettled country, we had a aeries of robberies committed by Maoris. These people fled in the direction of Te Whiti, and they offered him a share of the plunder—a large quantity of watches and tobacco. I believe. He honorably refused to accept it, and warned them to leave the settlement, telling them that it they had recourse to such acts they must look after themselves. 'The police went after them ; they were brought back, and the case against them came bn a few days ago, and was dismissed for want of evidence. The Maoris see by this that they will get fair play aud a fair hearing, and that they will not be condemned because they, are Maoris. X now come to the question of land purchases. As I have said before, wbeu wo came into office we found them in a very sickly condition indeed. What with tho indecision of the late Government, the opposition of private purchasers, and the desire of the Maori people to escape from the completion of their obligations, it appeared extremely likely as if we should have to forfeit the greater part of our purchases. Eor instance, I found that there were something like thirty blocks of land under negotiation, and of these thirty but one had been brought before tho Court. There wero deeds signed for the other swenty-nine, lint no instructions given to secure to them the force of law. As a matter of fact there was no title in some oases, and in others large sums of money had been paid before the laud went through the Court. The Courts were kept back, and in some oases tho negotiations had extended over five years, and still the lauds wore not closed. Since we have been in office, eight mouths ago, we have had hard at work tho courts at Maketu, Matata, Tauranga, and tho Thames, and large blocks have passed through, and wo are now iu a position to save what would have been a large loss on the part of the colony. So bard have the judges been bept at work, that when I applied to the Chief Judge, Mr. Fenton, for a return of the laud passed through ho declined to furnish it, saying I had kept his judges travelling about so much that it was quite impossible to give me the information. That is the oaso I believe, and tho return before tho House is merely an approximation. However, up to the 30th July last, that is in six months, double the amount of tho land passed through in the previous year had been passed through the Court, and if I could state the amount, passed^through up to the ond of September, I believe it would bo found to be three times the quantity put through in the previous year, aud the greater portion has been secured for the Government. (Applause.) I propose to ask the House to increase the number of Judges,(not as permanent officers, but for tho special purpose of working up the arrears which now exist. The quantity of arrears is still something enormous. I find even now that tho reserved claims number 402, aud that the claims adjourned number 800. An enormous amount of work has been lying over for years, aud before the new Native Lands Bill becomes law I wish to have all these arrears cleared off, and a fresh start made under that Act. _ Thus the proposal to increase the number of judges. There is no doubt, as I havo said,-that tho opposition offered by private people has beeu a great barrier not only to the present Government but to past Governments. I do not mean persons whose transactions commenced before tho Government would have closed if they had not been interfered with by the Government, but persons who deliberately came between tho native owners and tho Government and tried to defeat the Government. Wo have been saved by the Act of last session—the Act under which wo have proclaimed largo blocks as under negotiation by tho Crown, tho effect of such proclamation being that there could bo no lease, sale, or mortgage to private persons. That circumstance saved us, and we are now in a position not merely to save ourselves from being driven out of tho field, but to dictate terms to our opponents. There is one feature of our land transactions to which I propose especially to call the attention of the House, and that is what is termed oar leasehold transactions.' Wo have a large-tract of country under negotiation for lease for n term of 21 years.- I propose to ask the House to allow me to take one of two courses, either to acquire tho laud in freehold or to abandon the • business altogether. (Hear, hear.) What is tho value to tho Government of a 21 yeara' lease ? What private person will take the laud for the remainder of tho tenia of the Government lease, say 17 or 13 years? It wo can acquire the freehold well and good. It is the object of all to acquire the freehold, and when that can bo done no one will take this land from us, especially as most of it is til

an inferior quality. That is what I shall ask the House-to do-therefore. (Mr; MURRAY : Hear, hear.) [After a reference to a block of and iu Auckland in some way connected with the murder of Sullivan, but which was not aught in the gallery, the hon. gentleman proceeded.] Last year instructions were given to the officers in my department that iu future they should not assist in trafficing in native lands, • either for themselves or their friends. That instruction has beeu carried out to the letter and the spirit; aud in consequence of what has been occurring during this past month or two I have obtained the consent of my colleagues to extend that instruction to all persons who are classified officers in any department. (Hear, hear.). I will now show tbe House the present position of the land purchases and the results ■of the expenditure of our money : Total aiithorisefi expenditure for land purchase purposes .. .. £700,000 Total expenditure to Ist July, 1878 .. .. 581,031 Balance - . ■ • • £118,913 Acres. Total area of laud purchased to Ist July. 1878 (deeds registered) .. .. ..2,011,890 Total purchases completed during tho year 1877-78 .. , 59,089 Area of land proc'auncd waste lands of the Crown during 1877-78 428,093 Total area of- laud proclaimed waato lands of the Crown, purchased under Immigration and Public • Works Act. since 1872: Acres. Auckland 710,(551 ■Wellington 334,182 Hawke’s Bay.. .. 83,560 Taranaki .. .. .. .. .. 181.833 Total .. .. ..1,310,237 I expect wo ehall have completed in another year half a million acres more. I now come to a return of a much more important character. That is a return showing the number of blocks of laud with estimated area at present under negotiation of purchase by the Government, with amount paid on purchase account and estimate of sums required to complete the same. In Auckland there are 173 blocks which ace incompletely purchased, the acreage 2,083,129, tho amount paid £154,360, amount to pay £279,720. Hawke’s Bay: 1 block, area 19,641 acres, amount paid £2526, to pay £l4Ol. Wellington :40 blocks, area 728,586, amount paid £18,237, to pay £163,909. Taranaki: 9 blocks, area 342,630, amount paid £11,669, to pay £73,988. On the present estimates my colleagues have beeu good enough to give me £150,000 towards the £519,000 there is to nay on incomplete purchases; but in addition to the £519,000 I shall require more money if the leasehold land is to bo purchased and other purchases which are desirable made. I think tbe House should have been informed of these matters in previous years, of the regulations entered into, the money paid, aud the money required. Of course with regard to some of these lands the Government will I think be able to withdraw with advantage after making terms with the Maori owners or private purchasers—either we shall take our money back with interest or get the land or its equivalent. As to land iu Taranaki, 1 shall endeavor in every possible way to complete the transactions, because I think those lands ought to be in the bauds of the public, aud should not be taken from us as it were by force of arms by any one. (Hear, hear.) I may add the return does not include several blocks of land on the West Coast of this island. When I addressed the House last year particular question I expressed myself in favor of withdrawing totally from the purchase _of native lands. I have modified that opinion to some extent. I think looking at the important interests concerned, and looking at the effect our withdrawal would have upon the opening of the country, we must make an exception in the case of the West Coast, and we are determined to clear the line between Wanganui and Waikato aud furnish the intermediate districts with a substantial land revenue, to bear part of tbe expense of tile great trunk line. The Lakes District is under proclamation by the Crown, aud we intend to acquire the freehold, and on no account to allow those wonders of nature to fall into the the hands of private people, so that they shall be open to the whole of the public to tbe whole of the civilised world—for the purposes of benefiting health aud for the purpose of recreation. I believe we shall be able to acquire a sufficient area to provide the accommodation that tourists require. (Hear, hear.) Now, with regard to the money which will be-re-quired to meet this purchase, my own theory is that I believe there is no occasion whatever t(i f 1, „ loan market to borrow this

Total .. .. ... .. ..1,310,287 I expect wo shall have completed in another year half a million acres more. I now come to a return of a much more important character. That is a return showing the number of blocks of laud with estimated area at present under negotiation of purchase by the Government, with amount paid on purchase account and estimate of sums required to complete the same. In Auckland there are 173 blocks which ace incompletely purchased, the acreage 2,083,129, tho amount paid £154,360, amount to pay £279,720. Hawke’s Bay: 1 block, area 19,641 acres, amount paid £2526, to pay £l4Ol. Wellington : 40 blocks, area 728,586, amount paid £18,237, to pay £163,909. Taranaki: 9 blocks, area 342,630, amount paid £11,669, to pay £73,988. On the present estimates my colleagues have beeu good enough to give me £150,000 towards the £519,000 there is to nay on incomplete purchases; but iu addition to the £519,000 I shall require more money if the leasehold land is to bo purchased and other purchases which are desirable made. I think the House should have been informed of these matters in previous years, of the regulations entered into, the money paid, aud the money required. Of course with regard to »ome of these lands the Government will I think be able to withdraw with advantage after making terms with the Maori owners or private purchasers—either we shall take our money back with interest or get the land or its equivalent. As to land iu Taranaki, 1 shall endeavor in every possible way to complete the transactions, because I think those lands ought to be in the bauds of the public, aud should not be taken from us as it were by force of arms by any one. (Hear, hear.) I may add the return does not include several blocks of land on the West Coast of this island. When I addressed the House last year particular question I expressed myself in favor of withdrawing totally from the purchase _ of native lands. I have modified that opinion to some extent. I think looking at the important interests concerned, and looking at the effect our withdrawal would have upon the opening of the country, we must make an exception in the case of tho West Coast, and we are determined to clear the line between Wanganui aud Waikato aud furnish the intermediate districts with a substantial land revenue, to bear part of tbe expense of tile great trunk line. The Lakes District is under proclamation by the Crown, aud we intend to acquire the freehold, and on no account to allow those wonders of nature to fall into the the hands of private people, so that they shall be open to the whole of the public to tbe whole of the civilised world—for the purposes of benefiting health aud for the purpose of recreation. X believe we shall be able to acquire a sufficient area to provide the accommodation that tourists require. (Hear, hear.) Now, with regard to the money which will be-re-quired to meet this purchase, my own theory is that I believe there is no occasion whatever for going to the loan market to borrow this money ; I think we might fairly call on Hie laud revenue of the colony to contribute its share for the purpose of completing the title to this land—(hear, hear)—and therefore X hope the House will allow us year by year such an amount as we shall bo able to spend during that year in completing unfinished titles. (Hear, hear.) One statement which I can make is certain to interest members from the North, and especially the representatives of the Thames. There is an old proverb to the effect that “it is an ill wind blows no one good,” aud lately a native has died" there, who was opposed to tho opening of Ohinemuri. The result of his death is that his people are offering the freehold of tho Ohinemuri goldfields to tho Government, and I hope in the course of a few days to be able to acquire the whole of that district. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, I will say a few words about the department to which I belong. When I came into office, ond took the charge of that department, there were two classes of people in this House: there was one class who feared that my first act would be to dismiss all my officers, and the second class hoped that I would do away with them. There have been removals to which I shall presently refer, but on the whole it will be seen that there has been no attempt at turning the department upside down, or depriving men of office simply_because they were in office when we came into power. (Hear, hear.) I find on the order paper a notice of motion by tho hon, member for Wanganui, which refers to certain officers who appear to him to have been dismissed, and gives theirnames. T shall not refer to that question now, but when the resolution comes on I shall ask the House to stand by me, and not grant a committee of tbe kind. In the Native Department especially it is a matter of personal government; if you cannot move your men dismiss them. The Maoris look to you to do it, aud if I had removed an officer, and were subjected to a vote of censure, although tho House might not tell me so, the Maoris wonld tell me my services were no longer necessary. Besides, there must be that distinction in native matters. Whatever it may be in the Post Office Department, tile Telegraph, or any other department of the Public Service, in the Native Office you must know your men, and be able to depend on them thoroughly. (Hear, hoar.) A man may too the red tape iu all departmental matters, and yet by a want of zeal, enthusiasm, and interest, he lauds you and the Governmeut in a difficulty, and therefore the changes I have made havo boon solely in the public interest. For men I have no personal feeling. My friends say to mo I am deficient of malice. I simply oomo to conclusions after finding out that I can get better men to do the work, aud I intend to-do so. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I shall now say a few words in regard to the Native Lands Bill, which I shall bring before the House shortly. This subject is of more interest than what I have already said, because no doubt a large number of people are anxious to acquire Maori territory, finding that laud has risen so iu value that the price in the South has shut out all except men of extraordinary means from purchasing, and there is now something like a goldfields rush, if I may so term it, on the lands of the North. Therefore, those persons in the country will be anxious to hear how the Government propose to deal with that question of the acquisition of large areas of laud. I only refer to that one particular matter on the present ocoassiou, reserving other information as to the Bill itself until tho motion for second reading.' Now, sir, tho Bill of last session, which the lion, member for Waikato introduced, was, as most of his measures are, an exceedingly cleardrawn Bill —a well drafted Bill; but it was open to tbe objection—which was raised, aud on which it was withdrawn —that it provided for the sale of Maori laud only, without making a fair concession to small capitalists. Several propositions offered themselves to me for consideration. The first was to raise tho amount of duty payable upon native lands. It did not require much consideration to dismiss that idea, aud for this • very good reason—that whatever extra duty you would put on would bo paid, not by tho purchaser, but by tbe native vendor, and therefore you would bo acting unfairly 'with the aboriginal owner. The second proposition I thought of was that we should not allow a block larger than 1000 acres to go to any one person, and that each person’s title should be individualised and his share ascertained aud out off, thereby providing an opening for small capitalists to go in and purchase. . The i objections to that proposition are that it would entail increased expenses of survey on tho native vendor. 1 I felt that any proposal on this subject must be one that would deal fairly with tho native people. It must enable them to exorcise a fair discretion in tho sale of their laud without imposing taxation, and the proposal I intend to submit will do that. • Wo iutcml to restrict our laud pur-

chase operations, aud we intend to meet the difficulty in this way : We shall require, before any title is declared to be complete,'that it should pass through the ordeal of an Order in Council, and a certain number of months after this the title is complete; we shallreserve to ourselves the right either to take the whole block, paying purchase money, interest, and expenses; secondly, to take a part of it if necessary on; the same terms; or thirdly, to make it a conditional rectification that a certain portion shall be cut up in small allotments for the purposes of settlement. These are some of the proposals we shall make. Now, a very few words indeed with regard to the Middle Island. The Middle Island native people have not been a source of trouble to this or any previous Government. I have been able to visit them, and to remove a number of disputes which they had. We have agreed to give them a commission to inquire into what are, if any, the unfulfilled promises made to them with relation to lauds in the. South Island. I think there arc some unfulfilled promises, and I think the House will agree with me in proposing . to settle the question finally and for ever. (Hear, hear.) Sir, before concluding I should like to be allowed to say a very few words in regard to ourselves, ’ It was said to me when I came into office as Native Minister that I was the preacher of the doctrine of repudiation ; that the hopes of the Maori people would be raised ; that there would be nothing but repudiations and objections to survey, aud that the Government would be called upon to adopt a philo-Maori policy. They expected that the fat would be in the fire before the session was over. I hope the gentlemen who said that will at least admit‘"'that their statements have not been borne out by facts ; that I have not been the apostle of repudiation, and that I have kept my word—that when I ceased to be an advocate I would become their judge,—and that I have been such iu respect of Maori matters. (Sear, hear.) Of course, sir, the opening up of this island, and the settlement of the uotive question will depend very much on the result of the negotiations now pending. As fixed at present, the whole of the natives concerned will assemble either at Waikato or Waitara in four months from the present time, aud there will be settled the conditions on which we are to receive them back, aud upon which the Maoris are to abide by the ordinary laws of the land. ' That the result of that meeting will be satisfactory I have the utmost confidence myself, fer the reasons I have given to the House. It only remains for this House to assist the Government in the important work they have undertaken. It is not, X contend, a party question at all.' (Hear, hear.) It is a matter of life and death to all of us, and both sides of the House should therefore assist any Government that grapples with this question, and tries to bring it to a successful issue (Hear, hear.) I believe we can look forward this year as, last, to the fulfilment of the prophecy I made last year, that there would be no disturbance of the peace. I regard this as ended, and consider that the time for disturbances has gone by altogether. You may possibly have acts of violence such as happen iu European communities. Everything like an armed resistance to the law has become altogether a thing of the past. -You will have, as I hope, a number of difficulties removed that are now iu course of removal. You will have submitted to you for approval a fair and liberal policy which will lead to a better frame of mind on the part of the natives, and the proposal I make with regard to education will convince them that this House does not look upon them as people who ought not to stand on an equal footing iu the country. The measures which’ we intend to introduce will, I am sure, convince the natives that their interests are being conserved, and they will have ample evidence of the fact that there is a real desire on the part of this House to preserve, if possible, a race for which I and all of us must have the highest possible admiration ; that we are raising them in the social scale, aud that it is not mere talk, but that it is our fixed determination to make large concessions for the purpose of gradually lifting them above tbeir present level, aud fulfilling the promise which the early colonists made to them when they came here. After apologising for having troubled the House so long, and recommending that the debate ou native affairs should be postponed till hou. members had considered tha proposals of the Government, Mr. Sheehan resumed his seat amid applause.