HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5461, 27 September 1878, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Thoesday, September 26. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. PETITIONS. , Several petitions were presented. NOTICES. Several notices of motion and question were given. COMMITTEES’ REPORTS. A number of reports from select committees were brought up. POLICE BEPOBTS. Mr. BARFP asked the Government, —If they will lay before this House copies of all the reports furnished by Mr. Commissioner Weldon since the close of the last sitting of Parliament, and cause such reports, including any already laid before this House, to be printed and circulated amongst members ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied in the affirmative. PIBE BRIGADES. Mr. BASTINGS asked the Government, — II they will place a sum of money upon the Estimates to defray the expense of railway fares for members of the New Zealand Volunteer Eire Brigades, at their annual demonstation ? Mr. MACANDRKW said a sum would be placed on the supplementary estimates for the purpose; EDUCATION RETURNS. The Hon, Mr. ; GISBORNE asked the Minister of Education; —Whether he will lay before this House, before the end of the session, an approximate return, founded on the census and other authentic statements, showing in each education district, the number of children, distinguishing sexes, from five years to fifteen years old; the number of those children attending State schools, and the number returned as receiving private tuition 1 The Hon. Mr. BALLANCE said the Government were desirous of getting the information, but the return could not be prepared in ' less time than five months. THE HISBMOA. In answer to Mr, Fitzrot, _ Sir GEORGE GREY said no delay in getting the return of the trips of this vessel during the recess had occurred, hut the delay had occurred in getting more extended information. • Mr. FITZROY expressed dissatisfaction with that answer. Bellamy’s. The Hon. Mr. EOX drew attention to a paragraph in the Evening Post with regard to the employment of boys in Bellamy’s establishment, andmoved that the matter bo referred to the House Committee, The Hon. Mr. STOUT said the hon. member had better appeal to the House Committee, and not let the time of the House be taken up in the discussion of newspaper paragraphs. The paragraph might have been written by the hon. member himself. Mr. REES "was commencing to refer to another matter, when he was called to order by the Speakeb, and not allowed to proceed. Ho said ho should refer to the matter subsequently. Mr. SWANSON understood tho wages, 10s., a week paid to the boy was the main rapport of . an agtd father and mother, and he hoped whatever form the enquiry might take it would not deprive this family of the 10». a week, Mr. EOX said the inuuendo of tho hon. the Attorney-General was unwarranted by fact. He had not written the paragraph. Ho felt he had done his duty in bringing the matter before-the House—-(Hear, hear) —for it was a disgrace to them that they should keep these hoys at work so long, while they protected men and boys by legislation; ■ The House divided on the motion, which was carried by 41 to 21. , V PRIVILEGE. ' Mr. REES then rose to a point of privilege. Tho Evening Chronicle oi tho previous day had attributed to a member of the House, Mr, Fox, a letter which had appeared in the Mangilikei Advocate reflecting on members of the House. After a few remarks from Mr. Stout and Mr. Sheehan; the subject dropped. ■; . ■; NEW BILLS. The following new Bills were introduced and read a first time;AA Bill to amend the Maori

Representation Acts, the Native Lawsuits Bill, the Timaru Post and Telegraph Site Sale BUI, a Bill for tho Management of the Oamaru Market Reserve. . ELECTORAL BILL.

Mr. WHITAKER, on the motion that the report of the committee be agreed to, wished that the Bill he recommitted. He particularly objected to the miners’ right clause, which had been inserted in committee at the instance of Mr. DeLautonr.

Mr. SHARP to the 21th section, which as amended did not seem to represent the mind of the House. The clause as amended ran as follows :—“ Any person duly qualified and registered under this Act may, at a general election, stand for more than one seat at the same time, and, if returned for more than one seat, shall choose which he will retain : Provided that such choice is made within twenty-eight days after he shall have been declared elected for the district for which he has chosen to retain his seat, and that notice of such choice be, within the same time, given to the Clerk of the Writs ; and a new writ or writs shall then be issued for the seat or seats vacated by him, unless the seat bo duly claimed by some other person : Provided further that if no such choice be made, tho returns of tho person for tho seats for which he has been elected shall be deemed void.” No provision seemed to be made iu case the scat was claimed. Secondly, a man should not he compelled to choose till a dispute as to a seat was settled. The Hon. Major ATKINSON moved that the Bill be recommitted in order that the native vote question might bo reconsidered. The Hon. Mr. STOUT opposed the motion. After referring to Mr. Whitaker’s objection to the miners’ right clause, he said the “ unless ” in Ihe 24th clause only applied to the issue of the writ. As to tho other contention, he thought the House would not accept that. He hoped the House would not agree to the amendment.

Mr. EOLLESTON complained that the Government had rushed through at a late hour of the night amendments in the Bill brought down in writing. He and others, not wishing to delay the progress of the Bill, offered little opposition, on the understanding that there would be an opportunity of reconsidering the provisions. That was the case in respect to the Maori franchise. In this view the conduct of the Attorney-General was improper in endeavoring to force the Bill on tha House.

Tho Hon. Mr. STOUT said there were no amendments made tho effect of which were not understood at the time. It was too much to expect the Government to put the Bill into committee to have the Maori vote question rediscussed at length. There were some members who wished to see the Bill not passed. Mr. BOWEN regretted the taunt with which tho Attorney-General had closed his remarks. It was admitted that the amendments were not understood, because the Government promised to print the amendments for the consideration of the House. But what was the good of printing the Bill seeing it was only in the hands of hon. members a few minntes before the House met.

Mr. SUTTON strongly supported the amendment, because he wanted to have the Maori franchise question reconsidered.

Sir ROBERT DOUGLAS would withdraw all opposition if the Government wonld promise to bring the question before the House next year.

The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN promised that the whole question should be considered next year. In the course of his remarks he said if the Maoris could be got on the ratepayers’ roll the prosperity of the North Island would be assured. The local bodies wonld never he short of funds. The Hon. Mr. EOX said it was the double vote that was objected to. How would members down South like a number of Chinese to he granted special representation besides the power of voting for European members ? That was just the case of the Maori-vote as fixed in the Bill.

Mr. SWANSON said the cases would be parallel if we went to China and turned the majority of the people out of occupation of their country. Captain MORRIS complained that there was an organisation to secure the Northern seats for the present Government, and the object of the Bill was to further the interests of that negotiation. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the Maori was not equal to the European in constitutional matters, nor could they give intelligent votes on the subject of European liberties. The result of this Bill would be to set race against race. There were not half a dozen constituencies in the North Island but which could be swamped by the native votes. That was the case in his own constituency and in that ol Mr. Carrington. Enmity would be stirred up between the races by placing an enormous power in the hands of Pakeha-Maoris—dis-reputable men with whom not only the late Government but the present Government had immense difficulty in dealing with. The natives would not get the power, but the power would be given either to the low Pakeha-Maoris or the Government of the day. Mr. REES asserted that the proposed provisions had been in force in the past, and that the only effect of the Bill was to restrict the qualifications. Why, a large number of the Maori names at present on the rolls would have to come off if the Bill was passed. He claimed that in point of intelligence, sense of freedom, loyalty, and manhood the Maori had an equal right with the European to a vote. The policy of the House had been to put the two races on an equality, and to make a difference in the matter of voting would be to frustrate that policy. Mr. EITZROY agreed with Major Atkinson that the Maori vote could not be objected to were it not that it was invariably manipulated by Pakeha-Maoris, or the party in power. Mr. TOLB thought a second discussion on this subject would have a bad effect on the Maori mind. There had been no manipulation of the Maoris.

Mr. FITZROY ; Bay of Islands. Mr. TOLE said there bad been no manipulation except that of striking the names off, the rolls wrongfully. Mr. TAWITI said it was not the desire of the natives themselves to be placed on the rolls, but they bad been asked to place themselves on the rolls by Government officers, who instructed them what to do. That was done by previous Governments, and this Government was perpetuating .it. He could not see what objection there could be to Maoris being placed on the roll. They were subjects of the Queen and large landowners. Mr. McMINN spoke in favor of the motion for the reporting of the Bill. Mr. TAIAROA thought the Government were quite right in giving the Maoris this additional privilege of voting. The Europeans had much greater facilities for voting than the Maoris. Under the Treaty of Waitangi the Europeans and Maoris were supposed to become one, the Europeans having no greater authority than the Maoris ; but those Maoris who were upholding the Queen’s authority, and likewise those who were not, could easily see that the Maoris had not nearly the same amount of authority as the Europeans. He thought this Bill ought to bo allowed to pass. Mr. BARFF thought this question had been fairly fought out, and ought not to be reopened. If the Bill again went into committee the session would be. interminable. . (Hear, hear.) , Sir GEORGE GREY felt constrained to speak on this subject, which really involved the question of the equality of both races. If the House adopted the proposals of the hon. member for Mount Egmont and the hon. member for Kaiapoi they would deprive the Maoris of two privileges possessed by the Europeans the household and leasehold suffrage; and they would in addition to this impose a bond on tho Maoris which was not imposed on tho Europeans. While they con-' ferred on every European whose name was on tho ratepayers’ roll the right to vote, those hon. members would make tho right to voto conditional on the actual payment , of rates by Maoris. If the Maori race were deprived of privileges possessed by the Europeans tho result would bo to spread a feeling of discontent throughout the native people. The Maoris were committing no crimo that would justify such a punishment. The native race were at the present moment doing that which entitled them to the esteem and respect of all colonists, (Hear, hear.) He believed tho House would bo true to tho pnuciples of right and justice, and not take away from tho native people privileges which they ought to possess. Let the present Bill pass into law, and next session let a Bill b® brought down which would settle the question of the Maori franchise on a fair and equitable basis ; but iu the meantime he would appeal to tho House for equal justice to the Maori race,: and fie hoped hon. members would not concur in proposals which, for party purposes, were made in order that privileges which the natives would prize most highly might bo taken away from them. Mr, O RMONR said he was opposed to tho proposal of the Government on account of the enormous injustice which it would inflict on our own people. , iThe influence of the natives In the return of members to represent Euro. 1 -V :V '

pgans was being very much felt in certain districts in the North Island. He believed that what the native people most desired Was to have special representation,rather than to take part iu the return of European representatives. He believed the Government had made a great political mistake in bringing forward such a proposal as this, and time, would prove the truth of his assertion. Tho people would resent it as one of the most cruel wrongs that had ever been attempted on the people of this colony. What was tho position of one electorate in the colony—tho .Bay of Islands ? There there were a large number of-natives who returned one Maori, and the Europeans also returned one member. During the present year the ro'l had been flooded by the addition of some four hundred native votes, so as to completely swamp the votes of the European settlers. What would the hon. members sitting on that bench have said if the late Government had been connected with such a transaction, brought about in the manner it was ? It was proposed to bring people down from the Bay of Islands to give evidence of the transaction, but ’ the Native Minister moved the appointment of a Commission. Did anybody for a moment doubt what tho result of that_ Commission' would be —a Commission appointed by the Government ? He did not doubt what would be the result, and he was sure the people did not doubt it. The result of the Bay of Islands’ transaction was that the roll had been flooded, and that the settlers would be practically disfranchised. It would have been better if the matter had been investigated by the Native Affairs Committee; and he spoke from experience when ho said that the business of that committee was at all times conducted in a perfectly impartial, fair, and able way by its chairman, M-. Bryce. (Hear, hear.) He would ask the House to pause before it inflicted on the settlers of New Zealand the monstrous injustice which the proposal of the Government involved. Looking to the conduct of the present Government since it got into power, to the unredeemed promises that it had made, and to the proposals which they brought down, he could not help thinking that they would in a very short. time be at the end of their tether. There was a great deal of dissatisfaction existing throughout the country. At the beginning of the sessiou, honorable members were constantly hearing the threats of a dissolution, hut the Government no longer spoke in such a strain. And why ? Because they dare not go to the country. The Hon. Mr. BALLANCE said the prophecy of the hon. member who had just sat down as to the Government being near the end of its tether might be regarded in tha same light as the prophecy which was made by that hon. member last session. He prophesied that during the recess the Government would get things into such a mess that they would be turned out of office the moment the House met this year. But what was the result ? That during the recess the Government had conducted the affairs of the country so satisfactorily that they were asked by hon. members on all sides of the House to get the session over ns quickly as possible, and that they might have another year’s lease of office. On the question now under discussion, the Government were prepared to go to a vote, and he trusted the hon. member for Clive would accept the decision of the House on this occasion as final, and allow the business of the session to proceed without further obstruction.

Mr. WASON considered that the Maoris had Do reason to complain of tho manner in which they had been treated by the Europeans, and there was not the slightest necessity for the appeal that had been 'made to the House by the hon. the Premier.

The question of the adjournment of the debate was then put and negatived on the voices. The question that the report on the Electoral Bill be agreed to was carried on the voices, and the Bill was ordered to be read a second time on Friday. UNIVERSITY OF OTAGO AMENDMENT BILL. This Bill was read a second time. INTERPRETATION BILL. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Stout, the amendments made by the Legislative Council •were agreed to. LAND TAX BILL. The Hon. Mr. BALLANCB moved the House into committee on this Bill. Mr. ROLLESTON Oaid that it was rumored outside that the Government intended to accept certain modifications in this Bill, and under these circumstances he had expected to hear something from the Colonial Treasurer as to what modifications the Government were prepared to accept. Owing to an accident he prevented from recording his vote on thefoccasion of the division on the motion for second reading, and he would embrace the present opportunity of stating his views on this and the other Government measures which were comprised in their policy. These Bills were brought down as a remedy for the dissatisfaction that prevailed throughout the country, but they amounted to nothing more than a most mischievous tinkering where interference was not called for or necessary. The people did not want the present policy of the Government. It was a policy which was calculated to cause one class of the community to look with feelings of jealousy to' the other class of the population. So far from improving matters-as they now existed, the policy of the Government would only make contusion worse confounded. The Premier had preached class distinctions throughout the country. He had gone abroad fostering feelings between the different classes of the community, and these Bills would simply intensify the evil the Premier had created in the country. If he bad been in his place at the time, he should have voted for the amendment proposed by the hon. member for Geraldine. He considered that the revenue derived from direct taxation should be applied to local wants, but instead of that the present Bill would throw the amount into the hands of the Government, and in future no Parliament would be able to divest itself of the scramble which would necessarily ensue. No case bad been made out for increased taxation. The direction of the proposed changes was mischievous and dangerous. The Joint Stock Companies Bill was unworkable and mischievous, and of the Beer Duty Bill it might be said that it was a tax- on local industry, which ought not to bo imposed. With regard to the tariff, he would like to know what the outside creditor would say to the proposal of the Government to drop £IOO,OOO of revenue which was easily cob looted, and which it was the greatest possible absurdity to say pressed too heavily on the working man. It was absurd to suppose that the poor man could benefit by the reduction of the duty on sugar and tea. The merchant or the dealer would reap the benefit; and in the present great indebtedness of the colony nothing would justify the abandonment of at least £IOO,OOO of revenue, which, as ho before said, was easily collected and did not press heavily on anybody. There could be no doubt whatever that a very unsatisfactory state of things existed throughout the colony ; and the only cure that he could see was a dissolution. He would therefore advise the Government to ask the House to spend a fortnight in a redistribution of seats on a fair and equitable basis, and then ask for a dissolution. (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Mr. EOX looked upon the exemption proposed in this measure as a piece of clap-trap for the' purpose of ensuring support in certain quarters. He was not at all in favor of the beer tax, because the revenues of the country would be made to depend too much on such an iniquitous source of income, and he objected to it ala» on the ground that it was a tax on local industry. He did not think that the Government would be able to drag their Joint Stock Companies Bill through the House. The Government financial proposals were unworthy the support of the House and the country. Mr. WOODCOCK supported the Land Tax Bill, because he believed that it was a stop in the direction of taking the burthen off the poor, struggling farmers, and placing it on those large land-owners who could well afford to bear it. It was the fairest and most legitimate tax that could be imposed for the purpose of adjusting the taxation of the country. Therefore bo supported a land tax in preference to a property tax, inasmuch as it would get hold of the large land-owners of the country, and relieve those who were unable to hear the burdens imposed upon them under the present system of raising revenue. Mr, SAUNDERS spoke ip support of the principal provisions of the Bill, but several of the details required amending in committee. ' Dr. HODGKINSON intipiated that ho generally approved of the Bill, - although he considered there should bo no exemptions whatever. . ■ . . The motion for going into committee was agreed to. , •, ” ’ ■ In committee clause 1 was passed as printed. On clause 2 being proposed, Mri STEVENS said ho should like to hoar when, the Government would state what modifications they intended to propose ? The Hon. Mr. BALLANOE said there would bo very few modifications proposed by the Government.

Mr. BOWEN called attention to the lateness of the hour and.the thin: state, of'.the* House, and thought the Government should now be content to moye.that progress be reported. After some discussion, it was proposed to insert the words “the benefit of which is unexhausted at the time of valuation" after the word “improvement" in the 21st line. After some discussion, Mr. SEYMOUR (at 1.30 a.m.) moved that progress be reported.

The motion was negatived. Clause 2 was amended to- read thus : “ Improvement's shall mean houses, buildings, &c„ and any other improvements -the benefit of which is unexhausted at time of valuation.” Clause 2 as amended was passed, and progress was reported. , The House adjourned at 2,10a.ra.