PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5450, 14 September 1878, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Friday, September 13. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. PETITIONS, ETC. The FTou. Mr. BONAR presented a petition from inhabitants of Westland, praying for consideration under the Public Works scheme. He also presented a petition ou the same subject from the Mayor and inhabitants of Ross. The Hon. Dr. GRACE presented a petition from *3/5 Catholics of Wellington, praying for assistance for their schools. Dr. Grace presented a similar petition from 350 residents of Wanganui. A report ou the Impounding Bill, which recommended the passing of the measure, was brought up by the Hon. Mr. Miller. The time for bringing up the report of committee ou the Interpretation Bill was extended for a week. # Several notices of motion were given. • LEAVE OF ABSENCE. The Hon. Mr. WILSON moved that leave of absence bo granted to the Hon. the Speaker from Saturday next to the following Saturday. The motion was agreed to, aud Major Richmond was appointed to act as Speaker during the interval. RECREATION. The Hon. Mr. HART moved,—That in the opinion of this Council, it is expedient provide by law that all proprietors of land dividing t.he same into townships should be compelled to set apart a certain proportionate part thereof for recreation and other public, purposes. — Agreed to. CALL OF THE COUNCIL. The Hon. Captain FRASI3R moved that a call of the Council be made on Thursday, the 25th inst. The motion was agreed to on a division by a majority of 2. LAND DRAINAGE BILL. The Hon. Mr. BAILLII3 moved the second reading of this measure. The Bill had mostly a local application, and would no doubt be carefully sifted in the Waste Lands Committee.-

The' Hon. Mr. WATEUHOU3B said the powers under the Bill were very wide indeed, and although local in application, they could be applied all over the colony. He criticised what he considered objectionable features, and concluded by moving that .the Bill should be read a second time that day six months. The Hons; Mr, Wilson and Captain Fraser suggested the withdrawal of the measure, and Mr. Baillie having replied, Mr. Waterhouse’s amendment was carried on the voices. The Bill was therefore thrown out. WELLINGTON LOCAL HOARDS K.MI’OWEUING. . The second reading of this Bill was postponed till Tuesday, to admit of a new clause being-introduced. BRANDS REGISTRATION BILL. The Council then went into committee. The postponed clauses of the above Bill, 3,8, and 9, were discussed. ' The subject of brands (clause 8) took a long time, and ’ ultimately the clause was further adjourned. - Clause 9 was struck out, and a new danse substituted. Clause 15 was treated similarly. At the evening fitting the committee finished the Brands Registration Bill, which was reported with amendments and ordered to be rec -mmitted on Tuesday next, Tho Harbor Bill was formally committod, progress reported, and The Council adjourned at 20 minutes to ' HOUSE OF HE 1* It USE NTATIV ES. Fui day, September 13. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p m. petitions. Petitions w«ro presented hy Mr. Bowen, relative to the extension o£ the railway from Amberley to the West Coast. NOTICES OK MOTION. Notices .of motion were given hy Messrs. Barff, De Lautour, Ilialop, Sutton, and Stevens. REPORTS. Mr. KSIiIiY brought np several reports from tiro -Public Petitions Committee. The reports were ordered to lie on the table. Mr. BRYCE brought up a report from the Nativo Adairs Committee, and tho report was referred to the Government.

Mr. DE LAUrOUR brought up a report from the Goldfields Committee, which was read and ordered to lie on the table. I’URLIC WORKS ESTIMATES'. A message (No. 0) was received from liis Excellency the Governor, transmitting the Public Works Estimates. It was ordered that the message be referred to the Committee of Supply. PAVERS. Papers and reports were laid on the table by the lion. Mr. Sheehan, including the annual report on Lunatic Asylums. PETITIONS CLASSIFICATION COMMITTEE. On the motion of Mr. Bake*’, tho names of Sir Robert Douglas and Mr. Joyce were added to the above committee. THE SPEAKER. Sir GEORGE GREY, without notice, moved that dining the remainder of the session the Chairman of Committees do take the chair when requested to do so, without notice being put to that effect. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said he had much pleasure in seconding the motion. The motion was agreed to. GAOLS COMMITTEE. On the motion of Mr. Bowen, the quorum of this committee was reduced to three. MINES ACT, IS7B. Mr. REEVES obtained leave to postpone the question standing in his name as follows: Whether the Government will take prompt steps to revise “ The Mines Act, ' , 877," with a view of reconciling the present conflict between the rules and the Act, especially in reference to watet-ijiocp ? INSC3IPIION OP STOCK. Mr. JOHNSTON asked the Colonial Treasurer, — What remuneration is to be paid to the 'agents for the inscription of stock, for converting into inscribed stock the c denial securities which were held in trust in the colony, amounting to £977,800; and for the conversion of other securities ? The Hon. Mr. BALL ANOE replied that no remuneration irad yet been fixed, but probably the terms would bo arranged on the basis of the agreement for the conversion of stock under the Act of XS(i7. The Hon. Major ATKINSON ; 1867 or 1877 ? The Hon. Mr. BALLANCE ; 1867. NEW ZEALAND RAILWAYS. Mr. MURRAY asked the Government,— (1) If any arrangements will be made for introducing the. American system of baggage chocks on the New Zealand railways ? (2) If arrangements for the sale of railway tickets at other than railway stations will be made ? (3) If arrangements will be made with steamship owners to run to oi from Lyttelton and Wellington, in connection with the Otago anil Canterbury railways, at reduced through rates for passengers and freights ? (I) If satisfactory arrangements cannot be made with steamship owners, would there be any objection to utilising the Government s.s. Hinemoa for such service ? (5) Under what authority, and out of what vot», is the Green Island Railway extension to be made, as per contract now invited ?

The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW said the Government was desirous of introducing all

improvements that would tend to the public convenience. He would consult the Commissioners of Railways iu both islands with a view .of ascertaining whether the American baggage system could be introduced beneficially, and if so, sfeps would be taken in that direction. With regard to the aecoud question, he might say i hat arrangements were uow being made iu this 'direction—(bear, hear)—and he hoped that very soon thessarrangejnents would be completed. With regard to the third and fourth questions, he thought it was better to defer taking aay actum in this direction until they saw what the law of supply and demand was. As to the fifth question, this railway extension was undertaken in the first place under the authority of the Provincial Council of Otago, and iu the second instance under the authority of that House, under the Public Works Act of 1870LICENSED VIOTUALLKIIS’ ASSOCIATIONS. Mr. RICHMOND asked the Minister of Justice,—ln the event of the Government not proceeding witli a general Licensing BUI tins session, what steps tuey intend to take to place .the various Licensed Victuallers' Associations in the colony upon an equal footing, by equalizing the licensing fees ! The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied that it was the intention of the Government to deal with this matter sped illy, and if they did not bring forward a large, general measure, they should leave matters as' they were until next IUVEIIION men SCHOOL, On the motion of Dr. Hodckinson, leave was given to bring in a Dill to provide for the establishment and management of the Riverton High School. The Bill was road a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on the HOth instant, WUAKATANE GRANTS VALIDATION BILL. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Sheehan, this Bill was read a second time, and oriered to he committed on Tuesday next. CEMBTEUIES MANAGEMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL. On the motion, of the Hou. Mr. Sheehan, this Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed on Tuesday next. COMMITTEE OE SUITLY. The Hon, Mr. BALLANOIi moved,—That the House do now resolve itself into Committee of Supply. The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON would like to know when hon. members would have an opportunity of discussing the items for what might be called the new Hues of railway proposed in the Public Works Statement. A glance at the estimates which had just been brought down did not disclose the fact that lion, members would have such an opportunity placed before them. He should like, therefore, to know whether the Government intended to bring in a Bill dealing with the railway works indicated iu the Public Works Statement!

The Hon. Mr. MACANDKEW replied that it was the iuteniiou of the Government to introduce a Bill of this nature.

Mr. WOOLOOOK p iuted out that the monies given in aid of the counties were not being expended for the general good, and the distribution was arranged on a most unequal footing. Nearly a quarter of a million was Ho wing out of the Treasury in a most haphazard way, and not upon any fixed principle, and if cave was not taken that amount would soon be doubled. He begged to move, as an amendment, that in the opinion of this House clause 6 of the Financial Arrangement? Act, 1876 Amendment Act 1577, should be repealed. The Hon. Mr. BALLANCE said that when the colonialisatiou of the laud fund was resolved upon by that House last session the question arose whether the 20 per cent, of the land fund should be localised within the provincial districts or within the counties, and after considerable discussion it was agreed that the 20 per. cent should be localised iu the counties. The Government did not think it would bo fair to disturb the compact made last year; the Government were not prepared to support such a proposal ns was submitted by the hou. member for Grey Valley. Mr. McLEAN denied that anything in the nature of a compact existed. Under the existing arrangement the distribution was .moit unjust and unequal, and ho thought the proper, course would be to localise the 20 per cent.'of the Hand bund within tho provincial districts instead of the counties. In the general distribution that would ensue all parts of the various provincial districts would be more fairly dealt with. Mr. KELLY said he entirely disagreed with the present mode of distributing the 20 per cent, of the Laud Fund amongst the counties iu which it was raised. The whole question required revision, and he hoped that next session a measure would be brought in by the Government for that purpose, and that all parts of the colony would come in for a fair share of consideration in whatever fresh ar-raugemcuts-inigbt be proposed.' Mr. MUIvHAY said he saw the difficulty that would arise when *’ county ’ was subs'.i* tilted for “provincial district" last session. The substitution was carried by the vote of Mr. Karaitiana. He (Mr. Murray) thought that the difficulty would bo got over by the adoption of an amendment which he begged to move, namely, that each province should bo regarded as a county. (Hear, hear.) The hou. member then moved that the words “ provincial district ” be substituted’iu the Act for the word “ county." The SPEAKEtI ruled that the amendment could not be put, as it was repugnant to the amendment already before the House, Mr. BOWEN expressed a hope that tho existing arrangement with -regard to the localisation of the 20 per cent, of the laud fund would not be disturbed. - The Hon. Mr. BALLANCE read a telegram from Christchurch as follows : —“ Case over Hoad Boards v. Government. Judgment in favor of the Government, with costa. Notice of appeal given." Mr. WAKEFIELD said’ that last session Iho obtained the assurance of the Premier that tho 20 per cent of the Laud Fund would bo localised within the counties. He told I the Premier that he would vote against

the Government if .they did not localise tlie 20 per cent, within the counties in which it was raised. The Government consented to so localise it, and it was only affirmiug a very right and proper principle that new districts in which land was sold should derive some of tiro revenue for making roads and bridges, and opening up the districts for purposes of settlement. It was perfectly equitable to give the 20 per cent, to the counties, but it would bo grossly unjust to localise it ’ within the provincial districts. He hoped tho Government would adhere to tho arrangement made last year. Mr. WHITAKER said ho intended to move an addition to the amendment proposed by the hon. member for Grey Valley. The boa. the Colonial Treasurer had spoken of a compact in this matter, but he (Mr. Whitaker) would like to know what compact existed, by whom it was made, and with whom it was made ! It was absurd to suppose that the Colonial Treasurer in one session could bind another session, or that one session could bind another session in the manner assumed by the Colonial Treasurer. It was a rcduclio ad ahsuvdum ; it was preposterous to suppose anything of the kind. He thought nothing could be more unfair or unreasonable than the manner in which this twenty per cent, of the Laud Fund was at present distributed. While some of the counties were actually groaning under their riches, others were being starved. It was said this Land Fund was necessary for opening up new districts. The Colonial Government pro-

posed to give £50,000 for the opening up of districts, and, in addition to this, these districts would receive their 20. per cent, of the revenue derived from land sold. He thought this was manifestly unfair to other portions of the colony. _ Why not equalise the money, and as it was colonial revenue it should be distributed colonially.

(Hear, hear.) The amendment which he had intended to move, had he been in order in doing so, was to the effect that the money derivable from a repeal of this clause of the Financial Arrangements Act, 1877, should he expended in the maintenance of main roads and bridges throughout the colony. (Hear, hear.) After some further discussion, Sir GEORGE GREY desired to make a personal explanation. The bon. member for Geraldine did not apprehend correctly tho remarks made by him on the previous day. What he said was that by the plurality of voting the money had been placed in the hands of the wealthy class to disburse, and that by this means the people were robbed. Tho Hon. Major ATKINSON said the statement of tho hon. the Premier showed that either he was submitting to what he could not help, or was committing what he admitted to be gross injustice. Let the Premier either say at once that, this money was being properly applied, or let him bring in a Bill to discontinue the iniquity that was now going on. Tho Premier admitted that to his very great regret, and because he was not strong enough to resist it he was forced, a': the instigation of the hon. member for Geraldine, to set aside 20 per cent, of the Land Fund for the benefit of the aristocratic class. In connection with the Laud Fund he (Major Atkinson) hold a very extraordinary position. Down in the South he was looked upon as the man who had seized on the Laud Fund, while up North lie was said to be the man who had held this inalienable birthright from the people of New Zealand. Now, one or other of these statements must be untrue, and he would like to hear which statement the Government held to be the truer of the two. He presumed that on this, as on most other questions, the Government would be found not to be agreed. He (Major Atkinson) had voted for the localisation of the 20 per cent, within the provincial districts ; but he was now in a difficulty i- voting on this question. The Government proposed to take away 15 per cent, from the county ho came from for railway works, and thus the couuty would only get 5 per cent, of the Lau 1 Fund. He hoped, however, that the Government would say definitely what they intended to do with the 15. per cent., as it would relieve him from a difficulty in which he found himself placed. He rather regretted that the lion, member for Grey Valley had brought forward the question that day. The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN warned the friends of the Government against being led away by false friends on the other side of the House, and against accepting any advice that was tendered in an apparently friendly way. The - other side merely wanted to create a complication if they could, in order to get the Government out of . office. Let the friends of the Government criticise tho actions of tho Government, and advise them if they thought fit, but he would ask them.to be careful not to be advised by the other side. Let them ask the Government for concessions, if they considered concessions ought to bo granted, but lie would advise them against going about the.lobbies with members of the other side, whose only desire was to .create a complication and do mischief. (Laughter.) The debate was interrupted by the dinner adjournment. On the House resuming at half-past 7 o’clock, ' . Mr. SHEEHAN continued. A good deal

had been said about tho proceeds of the Wmmate Plains, but the present Government deserved all the credit of making those lands available to*the colony. The Opposition had injured themselves by not having allowed the Government the credit due to them iu connection with this matter. He then proceeded to refer to the action of the late Government in regard to Sir Julias Vogel and Mr. Stafford, and said it was part of tho policy of the last seven years, which had reduced the condition of the House, to that of a gambling saloon, wherein each man had endeavored to serve his own purposes. The action of Mr. Curtis, who had opposed the Land Tax Bill because a certain railway was not made as he pleased, was another instance of that. He charged the Opposition with factiously opposing the Government, not openly, but quietly, and then went on to condemn the late Government for their do-nothing policy, and their institution of a system of local self-government which did not suit the country, and could not meet the requirements of the people. They had built a ship which would not float, [Mr. McLean :

It would float, but you are attempting to scuttle the ship.] No, the Government would do nothing secretly. If they intended to do anything they would do it openly. It was the hon. gentlemen who wished to scuttle the ship, but he would not succeed. The late Government had not made sufficient provision for the local bodies. They admitted that by their action in reference to the public works which were intended to bo brought down as supplementary estimates last year.' [Major Atkinson : No.] Tho Government found a printed list of works when they came into office. [Mr. Whitaker: I did not see it.] '[Major Atkinson : Nor did L] Still the fact remained that the late Government had not ddred to refuse auy of those works, because it was a critical time. That Was just os they had acted in 1876 in reference to the Harbor Board Bills. They never dared to take the course the piesent Government had taken: He would at once say the present condition of things could not last; but the Government, after being iu office for a few mouths, could not be expected to bring down a great scheme, and they were not yet prepared to say what shape the change would take. These works must" be done on some principle. .He for one would never agree to see the House scrambling about particular works. There must be some general principle laid down, and he had no hesitation in saying if the Government had to undertake these works they would not consent to the present large subsidies to local bodies being continued. Iu conclusion, he warned members of the Government parly to be aware of the wiles of the Opposition, and hoped.the party would remain linn

.Sir. OIISIOND said the latter part of the speech of the Hon. the Native Minister was extraordinary, and was a counterpart of a speech by tho Premier the previous night—au ad mtserkordiam appeal to Government sup* porters not to listen to the Opposition. Tho Government evidently was in a sickly position, as admitted by these weakening appeals. The Opposition had come down this session prepared to give tho Government policy a fair trial, but during the past two mouths they had had nothing else to do but listen to the Government policy being tom to tatters by their avowed friends, and if half the sentiments expressed were genuine, then tho Government was in a most pitiable condition. [Mr Baiitox : No.] Tho hon. member had been in the House very little. [Mr. Bauton said ho had been constantly in the House.] Then the hou. gentleman had arrived at extraordinary conclusions. The present Government was in no better position than their predecessors last session. He went on to say he admitted the present local self-government was not, altogether satisfactory, but that was mainly because of the factious action of last year’s opposition. But if the institutions- were of a character under which no free men should live, as tho Premier • during Ilia slumping lour'had caid # why had he not

brought down monsurea to amend those institutions ! Had ho done his duty to the country in-that respect ? Why, on bis own confession,' his action was most contemptible. He remarked on the bite trip to the South as having been a' failure from a Government point of view. Arranged by Ministers for purposes of political capital, it resulted in a semidefeat, for while the name of a former statesman wns glorified, that of Sir George Grey was never once mentioned, and in fact Ministers were said to be very sick. He wondered what the members elected during the recess to support the Government thought of the Ministry, The Government they wero elected to support did not exist. [A Miainnu ; Yes.] Where, then, was manhood suffrage, readjustment ’of representation according to numbers, and other things which had been promised, which these gentlemen had been elected to support. He had heard the Electoral Bill, which the Premier called the charter of right, characterised in Napier by working men as a charter of humbug; and so it was. He did not believe in either of these cries, and the Opposition would bo perfectly willing to meet the Government in the country. The bon. gentleman’s colleagues had do; o wisely in restraining the Premier, but they should have restrained him from making such rash promise- 4 .- So with the taxation proposals. Tho Government had . brought down a wretchedly absurd scheme, ns was shown by the hon. member for Wellington City (Mr. Hunter) the other night, when he proved that he who, according to tho dictum of the Premier, was a bloated aristocrat, would absolutely save money by tho proposals of tho Government. Then the abolition of plurality of votes had been promised, but the Government had been afraid to tackle the subject, because the people were against them.- The Government way sick because of tire feeling of the country that it had deceived. As to what had fallen from the Native Minister with regard to Mr Stafford and Sir Julius Vogel he had this to say, that he and his friends had only been restrained from having this whole matter publicly discussed in the House because they were waiting for Uaumrd to comeont with tho exact words of what bad been said; and it was strange that ■ although tho Attorney-General made these charges more than a fortnight ago his speech had not yet been published, so that he and his friends had not been in a position to have this matter discussed before the departure of the mail.. But this much lie would say, that tho conduct of Mr. Stafford and Sir Julius Vogel and the Government, and an alleged understanding, had been misrepresented in a most scandalous manner. Not only had the Government made these misstatements, but a paper generally recognised as the Government paper had propagated a most shameful and scandalous falsehood, in an article which was a disgrace to the person who wrote it and to the people who caused it to bo written. He would say this with a full knowledge of the facts, there was no understanding which was iu any way derogatory to tho reputation of Mr. Stafford, and it was equally false that any commission was agreed to be paid to Sir Julius Vogel in the way it was sought to be represented. He could only give these scandalously false statements a thorough denial; but the whole matter must bo fought out iu the House as to the proposals of the Government. In reference to public work?, they were unfair to several parts of the country, and he should on a future occasion show how they were unfair. Mtsuy. Barff, Be Lautour, AVasou, Sutton; Hodgkinson, and Rowe hiving spoken, the House divided, with the following result : Ayes, 52; noes, 11. The motion was therefore rejected, and the House went into Committee of Supply. Progress was reported at 2.5 a.m., and the House adjourned. * -