PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5449, 13 September 1878, Page 5

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, September 12. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at. fche usual hour. PETITION, ETC. A petition referring to scholastic matters was presented by the Hon. Mr, Buckley. The report of the 'committee on the Repeals Bill was brought up by the Hou. Mr. Scotland. It recommended that the precedent afforded by the English Act of a similar character should be followed. CALL OP THE COUNCIL. The Hou. Captain ERASER gave notice that he should move for a call of the Council for the 25th instaut. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS ACT AMENDMENT. This Bill was read a first time, and the second reading fixed for Tuesday next. MR. ' PHARAZTN’s GRIEVANCE. The Hon. Mr. PHABAYZN moved,—That there be laid upon the table copies of the correspondence which has taken place with the Honorable the Premier and the Honorable the Colonial Secretary, relative to a complaint made by the Honorable Mr. Pharazyn against Mr. Ebenezer Baker, acting as clerk of fche Assessment Court, together with all documents connected therewith. The motion was postponed at the request of Mr. Wilson till the Colonial Secretary should be present. WELLINGTON RESERVES ACT. Mr, MANTELL obtained leave to postpone his motion for the production of correspondence between the Hospital and Orphanage- trustees and the Secretary for Crown Lands till Tuesday next. * ADMINISTRATION BILL. This measure was .committed, and got on ,*with to the 37th. clause, when progress was reported. DOG REGISTRATION BILL. This BUI was shortly considered, and progress reported. The further consideration in committee of both the above measures was made an order of the day for Tuesday next. . POSTPONEMENTS. The Road Board and Rating Act Amendment Bills (consideration in committee) were postponed till Tuesday next. The adjourned debate on the second reading of this Counties Bill was also postponed to the same day. SHEEP BILL. • This Bill was committed. Clauses 20, 21, and 22 were postponed in the absence of the Colonial Secretary. Clause 32 was verbally amended and agreed to, as was also clause 42. The Council was considering clause 44 when the adjournment hour arrived. At the evening sitting the Bill was further considered. Clauses 47 and 48 were verbally amended and agreed to. Clause 51 was treated likewise, also 54 and 63. The remaining clauses were agreed to, and progress reported. The committee then proceeded with the Fencing Bill, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, September 12. The Speaker took the chair at 2 30 p.m. PETITIONS AND NOTICES. Mr. BARTON presented petitions from Catholics in Wellington and Wanganui, in reference to State education. Petitions on various subjects 'were presented by Messrs. Sheehan and Johnston. Notices were given by Messrs. Fox (for a committee to inquire Into the causes of the dismissal of Major Mair, Mr, C. O. Davis, and other officers), Barff, Williams, Thomson, and Murray. THE POLICE FORCE. In answer to a question by Mr. Pike as to whether any amelioration of the present unsatisfactory condition of the police force of the Middle Island was contemplated, - The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN, after giving certain explanations, said the question could be discussed when the police* estimates came up. The Government were working in the direction indicated. WAIROA BRIDGE, NELSON. In reply to Mr.RicHMOND, The Hon, Mr, MAC ANDREW said this work must be constructed out of loans, and tendffbs would be invited foe the work when the money was available. RAILWAY ROUTES, MIDDLE ISLAND. In answer to a question by Mr. Richmond, asking for a report by Mr. Foy on the above matter, The Hon. Mr, MACANQREW said the report was practically on the table, as it had formed part of the Public Works Statement of 1876. In reply to a question by Mr. Curtis, he promised copies of all reports of surveys for the main trunk railways, South Island. DISTRICT COURT, KUMAKA. In reply to Mr. BaUff, The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN said hs would make inquiry as to whether a District Court was necessary at Kumara. - THE LICENSING BILL. Mr. WAKEFIELD asked the Government, —When the Licensing Bill is likely to be in the hands of members ; and whether there is any truth in the report that the Government do not intend to proceed with the Bill this session ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN said the Government intended to withdraw the Bill for reasons he would give when fche order for fche second reading was come to. The Bill would not be distributed. RATES ON NATIVE LANDS. Mr. WILLIAMS asked the Native Minister, —If he will obtain a legal opinion as to whether natives bolding lands under Drown grants, memorial of ownership, or certificate of title, are liable to pay rates under the Rating Act, 1876, or not; and lay the same before this House ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied in the affirmative, but expressed the opinion that natives were not liable. r DISMISSED OFFICERS. ’ In reply to Mr. Sutton, who asked when a return, ordered on Ist August, of officers whoso services had been dispensed with, would bo laid before the House, The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN said the return would probably be on the table next day, delay having arisen by reason of the many returns ordered by the House. NATIVE LANDS BILL. Mr. SUTTON asked the Government,— When, the Native Lands Act will bo circulated; and< whether it is true that they do intend to proceed with the BUI this session T The Hoa. Mr, SHEEHAN said bo purposed making his Statement on Native Affairs on Monday evenitog, and he would then move the second reading of the Bill. It would be distributed immediately. NEW BILLS, The following new Bills were introduced and read p, first time :—Patamahoe Hall and Site 'Vesting Bill, Lyttelton Harbor Board Act Amenfcment Bill, and Invercargill Waterworks Loan Bill. THE ORDER OF BUSINESS - Sir GEORGE GREY moved,—'That, for the remainder of the session, tho House will sit on Mondays, at half-past 7 p.ra., for tho transaction of Government business only; and that Thursdays shall also bo set apart for Government business only. There were a very

few private Bills on the Order Paper, and the state of business warranted fche proposed course. If more orders g-»t on the paper the Government would afford facilities for their discussion.'

The Hon. Mr. FOX thought it rather hard to deprive private members of one day. The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN, said private members would be givfcn every opportunity to have their measures discussed. ’

After Messrs. Montgomery, Whitaker, Gisborne, Sutton, Wood, Murray, and McLean had spoken, Sir George Grey consented to tho motion being amended, bo as to give Government business precedence on Thursdays, and fche motion as amended was agreed to.

Mr. GREEN moved, —-That this House will, on Wednesday next, resolve itself into a committeeof the whole to considerof a i espectful address to his Excellency tho Governor, requesting him to be pleased to make the necessary provision for the construction of a bridge across the Taieri River at Hyde. He was surprised fche work had not been provided for in the Estimates, as well as other Otago works. The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW was fully aware of the importance of the work, but on principle was compelled to oppose it. If the motion were agreed to fifty similar ones would immediately be brought forward. Messrs. McLean, Sheehan, Gisborne, Ormond, Richardson, Murray, Atkinson, Woolcook, Carrington, Bunny, Hodgkioson, Whitaker, De Lautour, Sir G, Grey, Messrs, Moss, Hursthouse, Wakefield, Sir Robert Douglas, and Macfarlane, joined in the desultory discussion which followed. After tho mover had replied, the House divided with the'following result :—rAyes, 9 ; noes, 48. The motion was therefore rejected. The hour of half-past 5 having andved, the House adjourned for refreshment. WYNDHAM RECREATION RESERVE ACT AMENDMENT BILL. On fche House resuming at 7.30 p.m., Mr. WOOD moved the second reading of this Bill. Tho motion was agreed to, .the Bill read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Wednesday next. WYNDHAM CEMETERY MANAGEMENT BILL. On the motion of Mr. Wood, this BUI was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Wednesday next. JUDICIAL COMMISSION BILL. Mr. De LAUTOUR, in moving the second reading of this Bill, explained that its objects were of a three-fold character. In the first place, the Bill proposed to define by statute, or to prepare the grounds for a. definition by statute, of fche power possessed by the Judges of the superior Courts in this colony ; it also sought for a definition of the relative positions of the Judges and the Parliament of this colony ; and having asked the commission to ascertain what powers of arbitrary commitment were possessed by the Judges, the Bill also went further, and asked the commission to ascertain under what power Mr. Barton was committed to Wellington Gaol for one month. The Suprepie Court was established in New Zealand iu fche year 1841, under an Ordinance of fche Legislative Council. By the Supreme Court Act of 1853 the power of removing a Judge of fche Supreme Court rested with the people of the colony, upon petition to the Governor; but in 1862 that power was taken away, and the only power of removal that now remained was by an address of both Houses to her Majesty the Queen. It had always been the desire of the Parliament to clothe the Judges of the superior Courts with as much power and independence as possible, and these powers were identical with the powers held by the Judges of the superior Courts in England. But it was a relief to him to fiud that no statute had been passed in England giving the Judges of the superior Courts arbitrary powers of commitment. Blackstone and other commentators held that this power was possessed by the fudges prior to 1215. The independence of the Judges was uo doubt necessary to preserve the liberties of the people, but it was quite another thing that Judges should possess the arbitrary power of committing those coming before them at their pleasure, and that there should be no. appeal against fche exercise of such an arbitrary power. This was a power which should not be invested iu anybody—either iu tho Parliament itself or in the Judges of the superior Courts. The colonial Courts claimed the possession of this arbitrary power, but it seemed to him it was questionable whether such a power had been conferred by statute. If the Courts had this power, then the body that created these Courts—fche Parliament of the colony—had lesser powers than the Courts which were created by it. In the colonies these powers were growing to such an extent by usage that it was desirable they should }fe nipped in fche bud ; or if they were not nipped in the bud, they might grow so large that it would be exceedingly difficult to nip them at all. It was not safe that uncontrolled powers of this description should be vested in the Judges of this colony. The first duty of any Parliament was to watch fche Judges with vigilance, and at the same time not to harbor any accusations that were made against them except the charges were of a specific nature. In this colony the Parliament had adopted an attitude of undue reverence towards the Judges, The moment a man was taken from that House, and made a Judge, he was looked upon as infallible, and in all his acts appeared to be worshipped rather than watched. Such a course was-sure to lead to an abuse of power, because men were only mortal, whether they were judges or members of fche House. (Hear hear.) It was in no way essential to fche independence of the Judges that they should possess arbitrary powers of commitment that were derogatory to the freedom of the people, [The hon member proceeded to relate the circumstances connected with Mr. Barton’s committal to Wellington Gaol ] It might be said that it was no great punishment for a man to be sent to gaol for a month, especially as the action of fche J edges had been practically condensed by the constituency of Wellington elect-’ log Mr. Barton to that House. It might he urged that this was a sufficient atonement, but he (Mr. DeLautour) did not think it was a sufficient atonement for an unseemly blot that bad been placed on the life of the member for Wellington. The House was honored by having returned to it a gentleman who had made a name in the neighboring colony of Victoria. It was satisfactory no doubt to the hon, member that the people of Wellington had returned him as their representative while he was still in prison, but it was no atonement, for the indignity that had been offered to him by his being committed for a contempt of Court. No grounds of contempt were set forth in fche Judge’s order of commitment, the Judge sheltering himself behind those large arbitrary powers which he considered were vested in him. In moving the second reading of this Bill, he asked the House to limit the arbitrary powers which the Judges of the superior Courts appeared to exercise. By so doing they would be only preserving fche rights and liberties of the people, without at all inter*, fering with tho independence of their Judges. The Hon, Mr. SHEEHAN thanked the hon. member for tho able and temperate manner in which ho had moved the second reading of this BUL To his mind, fche hon, member for Mount Ida was more fitted to be a judge than an advocate, judging from the manner in which he had put the case before fche House. He (Mr. Sheehan) did not intend to speak as to the merits of the case. He did not say whether the Judge was to blame or Mr. Barton was to blame. This was evident—that a scandal had been going the rounds of the newspapers, and the matter was one that was not calculated to improve people’s ideas as to the administration of justice in this colony. The hon. member for Mount Ida had mado a long speech, and he thought the debate should be adjourned in order that the Government and hon. members might see that speech in print, and judge as to whether this matter should go further, and whether the Bill should be passed. There was a member of the Government now absent ifl another part of the colony, and he should like his hon. colleague to be in his place while this debate was proceeding This was another reason for his moving that the debate be adjourned. In whatever debate might ensue ou this question, he hoped hon. members would deal as fairly and as temperately wjfch the subject as the hon. member for Mount Ida had done in moving fche second rsading of this Bill. The motion for adjournment was agreed to ■ on tho voices, and the debate was accordingly 1 adjourned until Tuesday next. In reply to the Hon. Mr. Gisborne, The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN stated that all the correspondence in the matter would be placed before the House, and he would direct fche Government Printer to supply lion, members with proof slips of tho speech delivered by the hon. member for Mouufc Ida. TOKOMAIRTRO ATHEN.EUM RESERVE BILL. Ou the motion of Mr. Murray, this Bill was read a second time, and referred to the Waste Lands Committee. HARBOR ENDOWMENT BILLS. There were 13 of fcheso Bills on tho paper for second reading. - * Tho -Hou. Mr. SHEEHAN said he was going to ask tho House to discharge all fcheso Bills, and those that were before the Waste

j Lauds Committee, because the Government had come to the conclusion that this system of asking the House to grant large blocks of land as endowments to harbms in all,parts of the , colony must be put an eud to at once. (Hear, j hear.) If it were not stopped, the policy of • last year, by which the colonialisafcion of the Laud Fund was secured, would -be practically j reversed, and the result would be that so much of the public estate would be taken away that the Minister of Public Works would find it necessary to withdraw his railway and public works proposals. He begged to move that these Bills be discharged. Dr. HODGKINSON protested agaiusfc fche discharge of these Bills, remarking that had .provincial institutions been still in existence harbor works would have gone ou in various parts of the colony. Mr. WAKEFIELD also protested, and hoped a distinction would be made between the case of harbors that were necessary and feasible and those that were not. The House should take the decision of the Waste Lauds Committee on each Harbor Bill presented, and by so doing he believed that no injustice would ensue. He would ask the Government and the Home to consider those districts in which harbors were needed, and where the work of harb.r construction would be most earnestly undertaken. He certainly objected -to those Bills being slaughtered in the wholesale manner proposed by the Hon, the Native Minister.

After some discussion, in which Messrs. McLean, Woolcock, and Bowen took part,

Sir GEORGE GREY stated that the Government were fully aware of fche importance of harbor construction in connection with the railway scheme. The course which the Government proposed was to have reports made with respect to col-nial harbors, and of course funds would have to be provided for such of ! these harbors as were considered great colonial works. The House might rest assured that i the Government would give its best attention to this important question, which they considered of equal importance to that of railway construction ; but it was to check this indiscriminate attempt to get large endowments out of the public estate that the Government proposed tho amendment moved by his hou, colleague. The Hon. E. RICHARDSON expressed his satisfaction with the statement of the Premier that the question of harbor construction would have the earnest attention of fche Government, and he hoped the Government would persevere in the Harbor Bill which was now before the other branch of the Legislature. Some of the Bills were withdrawn, and the remainder discharged from the Order Paper. MATAURA RESERVES ACT AMENDMENT ACT. This Bill was read a second time, on fche motion of. Mr. Wood. TRIENNIAL DURATION OF HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES BILL. The adjourned debate on the second reading of this Bill was resumed. Messrs. Heury, Buuny, Hursthouse, and Reeves opposed the Bill. Mr. WOOD supported the Bill, Sir ROBERT DOUGLAS opposed, considering that triennial Parliaments would lead to a system of delegation instead of representation. Mr. McMINN supported the Bill. Mr. MURRAY opposed the Bill If it were passed, then he would propose an immediate dissolution, because in the face of such a Bill they must go to the country before carrying out the various important proposals at present before the House, Mr. SAUNDERS supported the Bill Mr. FELD WICK also spoke id support, saying that the constituency he represented was in favor of triennial Parliaments. Mr. WOOLCOCK opposed fche Bill, and suggested that the hou. member for City West should withdraw it. Mr. SWANSON expressed a hope that the Bill would go to a division, and that it would be passed Mr. SUTTON moved the adjournment of the debate. The House divided—Ayes, 20; noes, 23. Mr. BARTON opposed the Bill, remarking that triennial Parliaments would result iu fch it House being made the stronghold of the rich. Mr. FITZROY supported the Bill Mr. FYKE said that in supporting thiajßill the Premier was striking a blow at democracy, which would become a dead letter in New Zealand the day this Rill became law. He (Mr. Pyke) felt it hia bbunden. duty to protest against the suicidal policy of passing such a measure as this. Mr. ROWE moved fche adjournment of the House. The SPEAKER explained that if this motion were carried the result would be to shelve the Bill Mr, ROWE: And a good job, too. The Hon. Mr. FISHER said he would support fche Bill The motion for the adjournment of the House was then put. The House divided—Ayes, 19; noes, 19. The SPEAKER gave his casting vote with the noes. Mr, McLBAN moved the adjournment of the debate. The House divided—Ayes, 22 ; noes, 19. The debate was adjourned (after several divisions as to date) until Wednesday next, at II p.m. v The House adjourned at 2.5 a.m.