PARLIAMENT.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, August 20. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at tins usual hour, THE OPENING OF THE DUNEDIN AND CHRISTCHURCH RAILWAY. The Hon. Colonel KENNY desired to ask the Colonial Secretary if the rumored adjournment of both Houses for ten days, for the purpose of attending at the opening of the Christchurch and Dunedin Railway, was correct, and if such had the approval of the Government, .and whether the concurrence of the Governor had been received ? The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE informed the hou. member that the Government knew no m 're of the matter than that they lx id consented to the adjournment of the House from Thursday to Tuesday, and they had stated that they would allow the Hinemoa to be used for the conveyance of members to Lyttelton, and the railway for a complimentary trip from Christchurch to Dunedin. That was all t »at was intended. COMPLAINTS AGAINST CIVIL SERVANTS. Th ■ Hon. Mr. PH AR AZ Y N asked the Hon. the Colonial Secretary,—Whether it is the established rule of the department over which ho presides, that when complaint is made agiiust the misconduct of a civil servant of the Government, the complainant is referred to the Courts of Law for redress ? In asking the question the Hon. Mr. Pharazyn referred to a gxdevance which ho had against a bailiff. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE said the established rule of the department was one which was capable of a certain amount of elasticity ; there were cases in which he took action himself. But where the course for remedy was hud down it was his duty to refer complainants to that. The hon. member’s case w is one of those for which a remedy at law was provided. PAPERS, ETC. Some papers were laid on the table, and •i petition was presented by the Hon. Mr. Hart. RESERVES. The Hon. Sir F. D. BELL moved, —That there be laid upon the table a return of all reserves temporarily or permanently made, and changes in reserves made, under Part VII. of the Land Act, 1877, in each provincial district; specifying the area in each case, and the purpose for which made. Agreed to. SURVEYS—AUCKLAND AND KAIPARA RAILWAY The Hon Mr. CHAMBERLIN moved,— That the return of surveys of portions. of the Auckland and Kaipara railway, lying between Auckland and Riverhead, laid on the table on the 15th August, be printed. Agreed to. FRIENDLY SOCIETIES ACT AMENDMENT ACT. This Bill was read a first time, and the second reading fixed for Friday next. THE OFFICIAL COMMUNICATION FROM THE SPEAKER. Sir F. D. BELL mjved,—That the memo randum of the hon, the Speaker, laid upon the table on Friday, be referred to the Standing )rders Committee, with power to call for persons, papers, and records. Carded. THE LATE CONGRESS.
The Hon. Captain FRASER moved, —"Fora -elect committee to draw up a congratulatory address to her Gracious Majesty, on the successful result o: the late Congress in Berlin. The committee to consist of the lions, the speaker, Major Richmond, Sir F. Dillon Bell, Colonel Whitmore, Mr. Wat-rhonse, D-* Pollen, and the mover. Captain Fraser saw but small probability of joint action being taken by -he Houses iu the matter; but there was an old i lage, his dat qui cito dat. He considered -hat the colony had not been treated with courtesy by the Colonial Office. The hon. gentleman went on to eulogise in marked terms the English Premier. Earl Beacons field stood in the Congress iu a different posi ion from Gortcbak'df or Bismarck, or any other. He towered hi«;h above his Cabinet, and could and did say sic i-010 sicjubeo. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE said the Government would not oppose the motion. He thought the colonies should have been irnine diately informed officially by telegraph of the result of the Congress, The Hou. Mr. HALL did not agree with the complaint against the Colonial Office. H<* thought such a complaint unreasonable. The colonies had heard through the Press the results of the Congress, and this more quickly, in ill probability, than information could have been forwarded through official channels. After a few words from Colonel Brett and Sir Dillon Bell, the motion was agreed to. IN COMMUTES. The Executive Ooaucillor Bill was committed. Iu clause 2 Mr. Waterhouse proposed an amendment that the following words should be added :—“Provided that such appointment shall onlv continue so long as one of the Ministerial offices is filled by a member of the Legislative 00110011."—Colonel Whitmore, not being ;> prepared for such an amendment, would ask for time to consult with his colleagues. He thought cases might arise when the plan proposed by the Bill might he found desirable and convenient.—Mr. Mantell did not consider the amendment quite satisfactory.—Dr. Pollen was not clear from the introductory speech of Colonel "Whitmore what the position of the hon. gentleman to be appointed would be He thought ths point should be made clear.—Mr. Waterhouse and Sir D. Bell had no hostility to the priuciple of the Bill. Progress was then reported. The Trade Union Bill was considered and reported without amendment: to be road a third time next day. The Literary Institutes and Public Libraries Bill was then proceeded with. Clause 41 was postponed ; clauses 45 and 46 passed ; clause 47 was amended and agreed to ; 48 was verbally amended and agreed to ; 49 to 55 were passed as printed. —Ou 56 Sir t>. Bell thought the borrowing powers very large. It was proposed to amend the clause so as to make the consent of the Education Board necessary.— Mr. Waterhouse would prefer the present plan. Tho innovation was a very important one, aud the committee should carefully consider it.—The amendment was carried, and progress was then reported. The Council adjourned at 5 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Tuesday, August 20. Tho SPEAKER took the chair at 2.30 p.m. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented by Messrs. Woolcock, Rees, Bunny, J. E. Brown, Thomson, Grey, aud Karaitiana. notices of motion. Notices of motion were given by Messrs. Murray, Bastings, J. E. Brown, Fox, H<»dgkiuson, Hobbs, Feldwick, Richmond, Woolcock, Hamlin, Ormond, Atkinson, Me Minn, PeLautour, Hislop, Green, Morris, Sheehan, and Maunders. PAPERS. Papers were laid on the table bv the Hou. Mr, Ballauce and the Hon. Mr. Fisher. question. The Hon. Mr. FOX said there was at present travelling iu New Zealand, on account of his health, a gentleman named Thomas, who was a Judge in the East India Company’s .service. Mr. Thomas dedml to see Rewi, but ho was unable to do so except in the presence of a constable. Mr. Thomas had telegraphed to him, asking him to see if the obstruction he complained of could be removed. Tho Hou. Mr. SHEEHAN said the Government had been informed that a person of the name of Thomas was desirous of having an interview with Rewi about a proposition with regard to his land. Ho (Mr. Sheehan) had written to Mr, Thomas, asking him to desist from his scheme for a time with the Waikato and Taranaki natives. He had not yet re- ; ceivod a reply, but he hoped it would be iu accordauce with tho expressed wishes of the Govurmne it in. the matter. With regard to his being under the surveillance of tho police, that would be immediately removed, and he (Mr. Sheehan) might say that this was the'first the Government heard of it. He hoped that a gentleman who had occupied so high a position in the East India Company's service would not interfere with negotiations that were pending between an important section of tho natives and the Government of this colony. (Hcai*, hear.) PRIVILEGE. The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER said that before proceeding to the business of the day he wished to bring under the notice of the House a question affecting not only its own privileges but some of the members occupying seats on the Government benches. He would merely bring the facts of the case under notice. It would be iu the recollection of hon members that ou the 13th of October last the resignations of the then Ministry were a cepted. and the appointments were made of four tlernen as Executive Councillors. No offi e* were conferred upon them until the 15th October. Therefore, from tho 13th to the 15th October they were members of the Executive Council, bolding mx office, and did not pto-
p -rlv receive salary for these two day*, under the Civil Service Act of 1863. On < >ctnber 13 the now Premier was appointed an Executive Councillor, and was appointed to the office of Colonial Secretary on the 15th of the same mouth. It appeared further that he had received two days’ pay to which he was net entitled. Then arose the more serious question still whether the Premier had not vacated his seat under the Disqualification Act of 1873, having been appointed an Executive Councillor and not to any other office until two days later, in the meantime occupying his seat in that House. The same applied to four members of the Cabinet—the Premier, the Hon. Mr. Macandrew, the Hou. Mr. Sheehan, and the Hon. Mr. Laruach. The latter had resigned. and therefore was no longer affected by the question. This was a matter which ought to be cleared up, and he merely brought it under notice, leaving the responsibility entirely with the House and with the members on the Government benches to whom he referred. If legislation were considered necessary, he should render the Government all the assistance he could to carry it through the House, so as to prevent any mischief arising. He declined to express any opinion in the matter, hut simply brought it under the notice of the House and the Government. The Hon. Mr. STOUT said the hon. member for Waikato was quite right in calling the attention of the House to the matter. He had not fully attended to the first part of the remarks nude on the subject. He could not express any opinion on the matter at the present time. The Government would consider it, and intimate its opinion at a future time. PUBLIC BUILDINGS AT CHRISTCHURCH. The Hon. E, RICHARDSON - desired, without notice, to ask the Hon. the Minister for Public Works, —Whether it was the intention of the Government to provide the public buildings at Christchurch with a new clock? He had received an affirm itive reply on a former day, but he was now informed that it was intended to erect an old clock, and this was his reas m fop asking the question a second time. The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that a new clock had been ordered and procured at a coat of £250. It appeared that some economical person in Christchurch wished to have an old clock erected ; but he (Mr. Macandrew) had given directions to let the old clock remain where it was, and to erect the new one. (Hear, hear.) SALMON OVA. Sir GEORGE GREY" said he wished to bring a matter before the notice of the House. Some time ago a quantity of salmon ova had been sent for by his colleague, Mr. Macandrew. The ship conveving it had arrived at Melbourne ; and the Victorian Government made application to the New Zealand Government to be allowed one small packet of ova. He felt it his duty as Prem er to allow them to have the packet of ova, and three thousand ova were taken out and found to be in excellent condition. The Victorian Government afterwards requested to know what sum of money they were expected to pay ; and, speaking as Premier on behalf of New Zealand, he undertook to say that the colony would accept no payment. (Hear, hear.) This morning he received a notification from the Acclimatisation Society of Victoria, stating that they had awarded him the silver med d of the society. Now, if anybody was entitled to receive that medal it was his colleague, Mr. Micandrew. He (Sir George Grey) gave Victoria the salmon ova as Premier; he incurred no expense, and made no forfeiture of anything belonging to himself. Mr. Macandrew declined to accept the medal, and thinking that the colony of Victoria might consider it a alight i the medd were returns I, the Government proposed to deposit it in the Colonial Museum, to show that New Zealand had conferred a benefit on the colony of Victoria, and that the latter was errit*:ful for the benefit conferred. He hop’d this course would meet with the approval of the H"use. (Hear, hear) PETITIONS CLASSIFICATION COMMITTEE. Mr. BARFF brought up two reports from this committee, which were ordered to lie on the table. ACOUSTIC PROPERTIES. The SPEAKER said that in consequence of the numerous complaints that had been made as to the difficulty of hearing what was said, the wires would be removed from their present position and would be placed h*gher up. (Au hen. member : Where they were before.) If his own ideas were carried out, the wires would be removed altogether. Mr. MURRAY thought that as these constant removals involved a considerable expenlitare, the ouinions of those capable of speak;ng on the subject should be ascertained.' The matter then dropped. RAILWAY EMPLOYES. Mr. FELDWiCK asked the Minister for Public Works —If he will lay before this House a statement showing the hours of labor •>t guards, engine-drivers, stokers, &c., on the New Zealand Government railways, giving separate particulars in respect to each section ! The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW laid a return on the table. VOLUNTEERS. Mr. HOBBS asked the Government, — Whether they will make such arrangements as will enable volunteers proceeding on duty by 'rain to have a free passage to and fro, provided they have a certificate from the commanding officer of their company that they are proceeding on duty? The hon. member thought that if the volunteers were to be efficient every possibleencouragemeut should be afforded them.
The Hon. Mr. MAC ANDREW replied that the Government recognised the importance of encouraging the volunteers, and arrangements would be made whereby their fares would be refunded on vouchers being produced from their commanding officer. A sum of money would be placed on ttie Supplementary Estimates to enable this to be done. This would do away with the system of free passes, which was open to great abuse. INDIGENOUS GRASSES. Mr. HOBBS asked tiie Premier, —Whether the Government will give instructions to forward to all public libraries in the colony a copy of the book just published on the indigenous grasses of New Zealand ? Sir GEORGE GREY replied that public libraries were so numerous that the larger copies could not be supplied to all of them. The principal public libraries in the colony would receive the larger copies, and the smaller octavo edition would be sent to every other public library, and perhaps to every public school. (Hear, hear.) CLAIMS OP MRS. MEUEANT. Mr. SWANSON asked the Government, — Whether they have taken any action towards the settlement of the ciaims of Mrs. El za Heurant ; and, if not, whether they intend to take any action in the matter ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN was understood to reply that it was the intention of the Government to settle the claims without delay. DEFERRED PAYMENT SYSTEM. Mr. MAN I > ER.S asked the Minister of Lands, —Whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce any measure that will more clearly define the price to bo charged for laud under the deferred payment system of the Land Act, 1577? Mr. THOMSON asked the Minister of Lauds.—Whether it is correct that the Land Boards are not uniform iu their interpretation of the law as to the price of deferred-payment land ; and, if so, whether he will give the names of tho Boards which interpret the law to mean that the price of deferred-payment land is £3 per acre, and the names of those which interpret the law to mean that the price is 30s. per acre ? The Hon. Mr. STOUT said ho would consider both questions at the same time. Tho Government, on inquiry, had found that only in three districts had land been sold on deferred payments—in Otago, Southland, and Taranaki. In Taranaki the land had been sold at a lower price than what was decided in the Supreme Court. Tho Government had entered into a correspondence with the Commissioner of Crown Lauds at Taranaki. When that correspondence was complete it would be considered by the Government whether any legislation was necessary or not. CROWN PROSECUTIONS. The Hon. Mr. GISBORNE asked tho At-tornev-Genoral, —Whether the Government will take into consideration the present system of Crown prosecutions, with a view to its improvement, either by assimilating it to the system established in Scotland, or by some other means ? The hen. member said the present system was not satisfactory, and did not meet with tho approval of all the Judges. The Hon. Mr. STOUT said tho difficulty was that the whole theory of Scotch law was so different to the law in operation in the colony. Questions relating to the civil side wore being considered, but as to criminal matters tho Government did not intend to do anything now. Tho question would be considered during the recess. NEW ZEALAND UNIVERSITY. ' The Hon. Mr. GISB MINE asked the Minister of Education.—Whether the Government propose to submit a special A ct for the appointment of the proposed commission to inquire into and report upon the Now Zealand Univmity; and, if not, whether they have
any objection to communicating to the House of Representatives, before the end of the session, the names of the commissioners to be appointed ? The Hon. Mr. BALLANCE replied that as soon as the names were decided on they would be made known. NATIVE LANDS. Mr. SUTTON asked the Government, — "Why the order of this limine, that the debate on native lands during last session should be interpreted and circulated throughout the native districts, has not been complied with ? The hon. member said the debate was translated and printed, but had not been circulated according to the direction of the House. The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied that the debate had been translated and printed, and was ready for circulation, but the Government had forbidden its circulation for what appeared to them to bo very good reasons, Wliv the debate had not been circulated the h*»n. member vould know if he put the question the debate with regard to native lauds came on. REGULATIONS FOK SURVEYORS. Mr. BEKTHAM asked the Minister of X, auf l Mj If it is the intention of the Government to issue regulations £->r the guidance of surveyors, so th it the roads pegged off by them shall bo laid off in such a manner that future construction may be practicable ? The Hon. Mr STOUT said great dtaati faction was created in consequence of the nystetn of free selection—(no, no) —and read a report of the Surveyor-General bearing on the subject. CHANEY’S CORNER. Mr. BOtVE.s a*ked the Minister forPuMh? Works,—What amount of money it has cost the Government to repair the railway line between Chaney’s Corner and the bridge over the Waimakariri. through damage by fl »ods, since tho line has been opened ; the length of time traffic lias been suspended, and the con sequent loss to the nil way revenue ? The Hon. Mr. MAC AN DU 10 W said a return showing the number of d *ys during which traffic was suspended would be laid on the table. ASHBURTON AND TEMUKA, Mr. WA6UN asked the Government,—lf they wdl lay before thU H"U-<e a return showing the number of civd and criminal cases tried at the Magistrates’ Courts at Ashburton aod respectively, during the List two years ? The Hon. Mr. SHEKHAN replid that the Government had no objection to lay the return on the table. FREE PARSES. Mr. PYKE Asked the Minister for Public Works,—lf the Government w <uld lay before this House a return showing the number of railway free parses which had been issued, t » whom Mich passes had been granted, and by Tn+O.r.rity ? The Hon. * Mr. MAC ANDREW replied that it would take some time to prepare this return, which would be laid on the table as soon as it was ready. THE NGATITOA TRIBE. Mr. TAT ABO A asked the Native Minister, —(1) If it is correct that the late Sir Donald McLean promised 5000 acres of land in the Provincial Districts of Marlborough and Nelson to the Ngatitoa tribe ; and, if so, whether the Government intend to fulfil the said pro-mise,-or compensate the Ngatitoa tribe for the said land ? (2) What course the Government intend to take in respect of the claims of Ngaitahu to the said laud ? The Hon. Mr. SHE KHAN might say at once that it was quit-3 correct to say that this promise bad been made. Fifty-six of tho vendors of the land in the Middle Island were to have reserves of 100 acres each. They had not received these grants, and had applied for compensation, and negotiations were going on. The promise was dearly made, and must be carried out. As to what course the Govern ment intended to take, that course would be indicated when the hon. member brought his claims before the House. THE AGENT-GENERALSHIP. Mr. McLEAN asked the Government, —If they will lay before this House the correspondence between Sir Julius Vogel and themselves, relative to his proposed retirement from the Agent-Generalship ? The Hon. Mr. BALLANCE replied that there was no public correspondence in this matter. The only correspondence being of a semi-private nature, the Government did not feel at liberty to lay it on the table. ONEHUNCA WHARF. The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW laid on the table papers asked for by Mr. O’Rorke relative to Ondiunga wharf. BILLS. The following Bills were brought in and read a first time, and their second reading fixed for Thursday next: —The Wellington College Acts Amendment Bill, in committee, (Hon, Mr. Gisborne); the Waimakariri Harbor Endowment Bill, in committee, (Mr. Bowen); the Napier Harbor Board Bill, in committee, (MV. Ormond); the Mataura Reserves Act, 1877 ; second reading fixed fur Thursday week. EDUCATION ACT. Mr. CURTIS obtfined leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Education Act, 1877- The second reading was fixed for to morrow week. TRIENNIAL PARLIAMENTS, Dr. WALLIS obtained le»ve to bring in a Bill to provide for the triennial election of the House of Representatives. The Bdl was read a first time, and the second reading fixed for Thursday we-dc. J. INT STOCK AND OTHER COMPANIESOn the motion of the Hon. Mr BaLLANCE, the House resolve I itself into a committee of the whole, to consider of giving leave t > bring in a Bill to impose a duty upon the net income of joint stock and other companies. In committee, leave was given, and the Bill brought in and reported to the House. The Bill was read a first time, and the second reading fixed for Friday next. LAND TAX. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Ballance, the House resolved itself into a committee of the whole, to consider of giving leave to bring in a Bill to impose a tax on land. In committee, leave was given, and the Bill brought in and reported to the House. The Bill was then read a first time, and the ‘ second reading fixe 1 for Friday next. MARTIN ANNUITY BILL. This Bill, increasing th* pension of ex-Chief Justice Martin from £333 16s. Bd. to £SOO per annum, was read a second time on the motion of Sir George Grey, and ordered to be committed on Friday next. CIVIL -SERVICE ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. This Bill was further considered in committee, and w«s still under con-idsration when the dinner adjournment took place. At 7,30 the committee resumed consideration of the Bill The following new clause was added : —No person who was a provincial officer on the coming into operation of'the Abolition of Provinces Acc. 1875, and transferred to the Civil Service on the said Act coming into operation, shall be entitled to any retiring or superannuation allowance under the said Act, or any Act repealed by such Act. The Bill was reported, read a third time, and passed. FOOD AND DRUGS BILL. This Bill was committed, reported without amendment, and passed through all stages. CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. This Bill was considered in committee, reported without amendment, road a third time, and parsed. ELECTORAL BILL. Mr. REEVES resumed tho debate. He should support the Bill as being of a character suited to the wants of the people of tho colony fnr some time if amended in several particulars. He thought the househould qualification should bo reduced from £lO to £5, and hoped tho rheHenco clause would be so modified as to reduce the probationary term from two years to six months. With these exceptions tho ■ Bill was a good one. Nine-tenths of the people of the country would bo found voting for manhood suffrage pure and simple. Mr, THOMSON wa* afraid ho should be put down as a Tory when he expressed his opinions on the measure. He was opposed to manhood suffrage, but believed it would come sooner or later, although it was nob now required. In and prior t*» 1832, when the Reform Bill passed the House of OmumonK, there was a great agitation in tho country, which proved that the measure was required and demanded by tho people. But in this colony there was no such agitation, and the fair inference was that the people were satisfied that the present facilities for getting on the elector al roll were sufficient. It had been said that as all paid taxes all should have the suffrage. If •the only taxes paid were those paid through tho Custom House, he would admit the force of that argument, but there was a land tax now before tho House, and he argued that if tho House were elected simply by persons paying through the Custom House, that Parliament would have no moral power to put on other taxation than Customs taxation. Tho normal vocation of a Legis lature was to make laws for tho pence, order, and go>»l governance of the pejple, but the Legislature had degenerated m’o a hug?* board Of works, whoso revenuo was derived
from tlie Canterbury land fund. The land fund of Canterbury this year had yielded .6690,000 more than was estimated, and th it was the cause of the surplus. Wo were going on borrowin'*, which meant increased interest. Well, the argument to bo drawn from this was that increased revenue would be required, and where was that to come from but from the property of the country. The thin end of the wedge was being Introduced this session, and under these circumstances he declared that manhood suffrage, which was practically proposed in this Bill, was a wrong principle to introduce into our legislation. He referred to the fact that the principle was on its trial in the United States and in Victoria. In the former place there was no such thing as individuality of thought, and no man could get into the Senate House unless he was guilty of the most gross bribery anti corruption. As to Victoria, that colony did not fu-nish an example of manhood suffrage educiting ths people. The Attorney-General had admitted that it had not had a sufficiently educative infloe *ce, and in a contribution to the " Melbourne Review” had suggested, as a means of increasing the interest of the people m public affairs in tint colony, the election of the Governor. Perhaps the hon. gentleman would uropose something f the same sort here in New Zealand when he found the result of manhood suffrage in Zealand was the same as it had be«n in Vic-o ia. He could not see much vi-tue in the residential clause, esp-cially the c -ndition of six nuntlis' roidenco. That would disfranchise commercial travellers, perhaps alsoinem’wrsof' the House if they remained too long in Wei iugton. (\ laugh ) He was opposed to the proposal to give women the snff -ago. (Japtiin RUSSELL referred to the anomaly of the hon. member f»r Clutha opposing the Government manure, as a contradiction of r.he -tatern-nts of the iMonial Treasurer, who, la-t v«a r , expressed the belief that in ime to c one* would he two well defined parties ia the House—the Liberal and the Conserva tive. The action of the hon member showed there were no hard-and-fast line*. He twitt-’d the Premier on the sonorous platitudes he had paraded before the electors, iu which he arrogated to himself and the Governramt all liberalism. He (Captain Russell) claimed t-» oe a Liberal, and as such would support the Bil'. He thought the present a favorable opportunity of amending the electoral law in conscqience of the absence of political animosity, and hoped good legislation would result There were some good points in the Bill of the hon, membei for Waikato, but ho thought it enuhl not be passed this session, though it might be well to embody some of its provisions in the law next session. He disapproved of Hare’s avstem as being cdculafced to promote the growth of political associations and cliques like those which had been the bane of America. He criticised several points in the Government measure, particularly objecting to the proposal to give tho Maoris double voting power as thoroughly unfair, yet expressing himself as anxious to see the two races welded together, and should like to see them possessing equal electoral powers He referred to the late action of certain parties in placing 400 native names on the roll in Hawke’s B iy for party purposes, to swamp the European vote, and not with the object of benefiting the natives. An educational test should be imposed on all electors, as giving a guarantee of more intelligent audreasouingvotingin elections for the House. A man unable to read and write was purely at the mercy of professional politicians, and his influence in an election must be baneful. With these exceptions he approved of the Bill, which had agreeably disappointed him as to the radicalism of the Premier. Ho was when the Premier got into ; office afraid he would be a democratic Caesar rather than a constitutional Minister, and was now glad to see the moderation he had shown in yielding to the opinions of his colleagues. Mr. GOTTEN objected to constant tinkering with the Constitution, and referred to the fact that three measures for altering the Constitution were before the House—one to amend the Constitution of the Upper House, and two dealing with the representation question. Legislation in this direction was unnecessary, and the measure under discussion would affect little real change, although it would create a great deal of trouble, for every man of 21 years of age reasonably industrious could now hardly avoid getting on the electoral roll. Those who could not g-d on the roll under present circumstances would und-r the new regime be a t uncertain element in elections—men of no character, who could easily be bought, and the machinery provided by the Act offered fiicilities to that end. He objected to females being allowed to take their seats in the House, ami said it was illogical of the Attorney General to give them that privilege and deny them the suffrage. After a little playful banter the hon. gentleman said it would be a mischievous principl to introduce into the electoral system of the colony, and he should strongly oppose the proposal. Mr. TURNBULLapproved of the Bill except in some small particulars, and answered several arguments pgainst the measure. The property qualification was a just concession to propertv, the residence clan.-e was a fair compromise, and it was only riiht that a man of property, ifa “marksman,” should have a vote by virtue of his propertv. He approved of the elections throughout the colony taking place on the same day, and thought the Bribery Bill would prevent the evils the hon. member for Clutha (Mr. Thomson) seemed to fear. As to female suffrage, he thought a woman who held propertv in her own right should have a vote f<»r the House, but should not be empowered to become a member of the House, The reference of the hon. member for Clutha to Victoria suggested a large question as to the influence to be exercised on national character by the growth *•£ a landed interest, la England it had had an i fluence for good simply because of the character of tho-e who swayed it—men of the greatest ability, chiva'ry, and patriotism, who held their property as a trust for the people and the country. But here it was very different. Men of property here did not recognise their duties and responsibilities A rame mercenary set of men did not exist. (Hear, bear.) And why? Simply hecause.they acquired their land for their own private purposes. Their only recommendation was that they were careful calculators of interest. That class should receive little consideration, and the only means of counteracting their influence was to throw open the highest positions in the State to the poorest men. No measure could be more favorable to that end than the present Bill. The Hon. Mr, SHEEHAN said the proposal to tnable women to take a seat in the House was an open question with the Government ; indeed, he should vote straight against it. In answer to Captain Russell, ho said he thought the independent action of the hon. member for Clutha was a proof of the correctness of the remarks of the Colonial Treasurer, forit showed the country was beingguverned by principles, not by roads and bridges as hitherto; and as to the "sonorous platitudes,” they had roused the country and made the hon. member for Napier and his friends sing much smaller than heretofore. The Government had
adopted a new principle. They would cot give members roads and bridges with their measures as they g*ye the children sugar with medicine. They would give no sugar, but they would ■ make them take the medicine whether they liked it or not. No doubt tho Opposition were wild, but nevertheless they would like to return to the old system. As to the educational test, it could not be insisted upon owing to the mismanagement of tho education of the country in the past. The hon. member had drawn a feeling picture of the Maori question in hia district; but ho had misstated tho case. There were not 150 natives on tho roll 4 in tho whole of Hawke’s Bay, As to the IVlaori representation question, tho special representation had woiked well, and tho Maori members votes in the past had been given fairly. Special representation could not last, but it could not be done away with until tho new system could be introduced, and that time had not ye 1 ; arrived. Tho retention of the present qualification was necessary as an educational institution, teach* ing them to pay rates and accept responsibilities. If the House continued the experiment for five years special representation would not ho necessary. it was desirable not to abolish it for two reasons. First, assuming there was a possibility of trouble, it was wise nob to give the Maoris a reasonable or colorable cause of complaint ; and secondly, assuming there was no danger, it would be unmanly now the Europeans were so thoroughly master of the situation to trample upon those whom a few years ago they feared, and rob them now of privileges which a few years ago they would not have dared to withdraw. Ho hoped tho House would give the matter fair and generous consideration, and continue the experiment for another five years, when tho necessity for special representation would be at an end. He criticised the 811 of tho hon. member for Waikato, admitting at the outset that th« hon. member h id always been among tho leading liberal politicians or thecoon’ry. Ho believed the Bdl must and would bo rejected, but it would be rejected inarospectful manner. Deal ing with the Government Bill, he complained of tho tone of tho remarks of tho hon* member for
Napier iu inference to the Premier, in having paid au offensive back-handed compliment, an 1 proceeded to justify the action of the Government in reference to their promises. The Bill was nob intended to please either ulcraCouaervatives or Radicals, bub to meet the wish s of the general body of the people. The Hon. Mr. FOX could not support that portion of the Bill iu reference to the n.viv© franchise, and could not agree with the Native Minister in hw remarks. No one wished to deprive the native of the franchise. He (Mr, Fox) regarded the endowment of the franchise on the Maoris as •«. tuhke act, which had been the salvation of the country. But he objected to the double representation, and .the flooding of the European constituencies by native votes. That was really the outcome of the present system. For instance, in Mana. watu 200 names had been placed on the'roll, and these 2uo votes could be manipulated by one mm. That was not a thing to be desired, the more particularly as the Maoris did uofc ask for if.—indeed some natives north of Aucklan i hid petitioned against the system. As to trouble, it, was quite to ho apprehended fmm the complications which would arise from the system during the n'*xt five years. Me also objected to the double votes of the European. If there was to be manhood -uffrage it should be fixed upon some intelligib’e principle, either that he w~s a taxpayer nr on some othe ■ principle. Certainly there should not be a dual vote, giving property holders an undue advantage, irons particularly in the South Island, where there were greater facilities for transporting voters from place to place. As to manhood suffrage, he had always b-'en on the progress side. He had studied it in America. S vitzerl 'Q<«, and other countries, and admitted the suffrage must come to that, and his only d sire was to see it surrounded with sufficient safeguards. He knew the \merican Constitution and the representative system, and regretted the social and political iimnoratibv in that great free country ; but he did ot attribute those evils altogether to manhood suffrage. They were in a large mea-ure the re-nit of the great socialistic wave which was sweeping over all the oldest co mtries iu the world, as well as the newest, wheth* r demo-, c-atic or muuarchial. In America if was very powerful—thousands of loafers were preaching, and produced socialism, all of whom had the franchise, aud it was a terrible power. The outlook was not cheerful, but he had great confidence a* to the future, and believed m inhood suffrage would be the safety valve which would enable America to steer through her trouble. It could not be said that he was opposed to manhood suffrage-, but he was desirous of seeing it surrounded by safeguards. Addressing himself to the question of woman suffrage, ho contended that if taxation was the bisis of representation, representation could not be denied the women who paid taxes, the more especially as the principle was admitted in municipal affdrs. The Bill did not go so far as that, but still he should support the Bill *o far as it went. Generally he should support the Bill, but he objected to some of the detail?, and he also favored the Bdl of the hon. member for Waikato, with some exception. He had great doubts as to Hare's system, not so much on the abstract question, but in respect to the details.
Mr. M ANDERS supported the Bill, though from a goldfield constituency point of view it wa* a conservative measure, seeing that it required registration before a miner could vote on his right as heretofore. He took exception to some details, and objected to tacking on to this Bill a measure for a redistribution of seats. Let the new franchise be given the effect of law, the rolls be made up, and then let the question of seats be arraug-d. The measure of the hon. member for Waikato wa* good in principle hut cumbrous in its details. Mr. FELD WICK took objection to certain details in reference to the Revision Courts, and urged an amendment to provide that persons removing from one district to another, if carrying with them a certificate as to registration from the returning officer of the district left, should not be disfranchised, but that they should be entitled to be placed on the roll of the district to which they were going. There were several other amendments pointed out as desirable, to prevent personation and to keep the rolls pure. Mr. BASTINGS did not altogether agree, with the Bill. Ministers had had to compromise matters with one another, and as a result manhood suffrage was denied. He strongly advocate 1 manhood suffrage, and said the principle had ti ot worked badly in Victoria, late events having been the consequence of class prejudices gem-rated previous to the institution of manhood suffrage. He could not understand Hare’s system, but with that exception strongly favored the proposals of the hon. member for Waikato. He approved of women hold!ag property having a vote, but nothing ftuthcr. As to the ramhiaery of the 8.11, he thought the exirnple of Queensland and Victoria should lie followed, and that the onus of getting on the roll should rest on the man who desired to get on the roll. In Queen.-land a man had to apply to be put on the roll, to piy a shiil.ng for die privilege, and to sign his name, of which a fac simile was taken, and med to prevent personation. He condemned the proposal to close public-homes on election day as an insult to the people uf the colony.
Mr. BAIIKF should vote for the second reading of the Bill, but considered it very imperfect in detail in many respects, especially in regard t*» its failure to simplify and d» away with the complications arising from the various modes of making up the rolls. Me referred to abuses of the double qualification on the goldfields, and a leged that in aieceub election on the West Coast the system had led to grog* corruption. Over a hundred miners’ rights had been collected by the chairman of one of the committees of a candidate, distributed by him to persons having no right to vote, and used by them in a direction pleasing ro the ca ididate in whose interest the said chairman was working. The Revision Court-* in Westland, too, were the most gross humbugs ever seen in New Zealand, in consequence of the Court for the whole district extending over a hundred miles being held in Hokitika alone, and the peculiar p inclples on which the revising officer considered it his duty to proceed. Major ATKINSON congratulated the Government on the unanimity of i s followers in respect to the first great measure brought forward for the purpose of freeing the serfs of New Zealand. Nearly every one had taken objection to its principle and to its details, and had given fatherly advice as to what ought to bs done Tho Premier and the Government had promised manhood suffrage pure and simple, and it was with surprise he had seen tho Attorney-General rise to introduce the Bill, because it was the peculiar province of the Premier to have introduced it. But when the Bill was distributed tho riddle was explained. It was nob the Bill the Premier had promised, much to the relief of both sides of the House—relief to the supporters of the Government that they would not h ive to vote for a policy of “bunkum,” to use the expression of tho hon, member for Roslyn, and a relief to tho Opposition, who were afraid of what the Government were going to propose. It was not the Bill promised in the recess, and afforded another proof of the correctness of the statement of Mr. Reader Wood to the Auckland Provincial Council, that no one and nothing could bind the Premier. Why, there was no liberalism in the Bill. The pro-perty-holder was given three advantages—one in respect of freehold, next in respect of leasehold, and next tho clerks of the road boards were to take care tho property-holders were on the rolls ; while the 70,000, the pith and marrow of the country,werelefttotakecareof thomselves—the class least used to writing and attending to these matters was left entirely out in the cold. Hovv did this peculiar case of tho property class tally with the Premier’s speeches at Taranaki, Dunedin, or the Thames. It was another evidence of the talk of the Premier and his utter failure to act in accordance with his talk. There were many absurd provisions in the Bill, proving what everybody must have foreseen, that Ministers who ran about the country during tho whole of the recess could not present well-digested proposals to tho consideration of tho House. For instance, a man personated was to bo disfranchised, though he had done no wrong ; then if a member was doubly returned and did not elect hi* seat in twenty-eight day*, according to the intention of the Bill, there was no penalty for his non-fulfilment of the condition ; there was no provision for ascertaining who were residents ; no provision for identifying names on the roll in respect of property ; no means of keeping the rolls pure ; ami there were many other matters which could be pointed out as indicating great loosenes*. Tho Hen. Mr. BALLANCE thought it a pity tho hon., member for Egmotib had not dealt with principles instead of with details, and contended the Bill was more liberal and more simple than that of tho hon. member for Waikato, No more complicated system »ban Hire’s could be imagined, nor could any system be devised which was better calculated to destroy tho rights of the p oplu than Hare's By. -tern. lfhon. gentlemen on tho opposite B'de were sincere about liberalism, let them drop Haro’s system and go in for the rem lindor of the 1511 brought forward by tho hon, member for Waikato.
Mr. WHITAKER : T accept that at once. The Hon, Mr. BALLANCE : Would the hon. gentleman’s friends accept it. No. As to Victoria, the provision of the Government 13111 was on all fours with the Victorian practice. He was not going to contend that the extension of the suffrage would have such a great effect upon the liberties of the people; but it was necessary for the good of the country to distribute political power over all the people, and to give manhood suffrage, with reasonable restrictions. The principle of the Goverrmenb was that they extended political privileges by the residential qualification, and no more liberal franchise than that provided by the Bill could be given. As to the Maori question, why, the Government had not given the Maori any new power, but had restricted it in certain directions. The grievance was that the natives did not pay rates and assist in paying for the making of roads, and the principle of this Bill was to i induce the Maori to pay rates and obtain political privileges thereby. That was a policy which the country «t large would accept. As to the e locational test, a high educational test was not justified by experience. For instance, the University of' Oxford at Home had opposed every liberal measure now on the statutebook, and ‘had 'rejected Mr. Gladstone for his liberal ideas. The principle of the representation of minorities was a f llacv. Itwis unEnglidi; and further, every reform in England had' been carried by a simple majority. The gnilus of the EngTsh Constitution was the simple 'majority; but mi-.oritv representation was not excluded thereby, for almost every shade of opinion was appreciably represen 1 ed in the House of Commons nnd-r the present svstem. 'The fact, was that Hare’s syst-ra was a machinery for making divergent minorities a majority, and not for *ho fair representation of the opinion of the country. Dr. Wallis hid charged certain members of the Government with ultra-Con servatisrn, and had hinted at divisions in the Cabinet. Why, naturally there must be diverse individual opinions, and every great measure could only be the outcome of the united mind of the Cabinet, and this measure redly did represent the mind of the Premier, in 'hat it extended the suffrage greatly. No doubt there were minor defects, but were there nob such iu every g-eat proposal brought before that or any other House. The question was, was the principle of the Bill acceptable ? and he believed the .answer of a large majority in the House would lie in the affirmative. On tho motion of Mr. .Seaton the debate was adjourned. The House at 12 30 adjourned.
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New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5429, 21 August 1878, Page 2
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8,160PARLIAMENT. New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5429, 21 August 1878, Page 2
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