CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5382, 27 June 1878, Page 2

CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

The quarterly meeting of the Wellington Chamber of Commerce was held yesterday afternoon at Mr. Carroll’s rooms. The President (Mr. F. A. Krull) was in the chair, and there were present Messrs. Banuatyne, Port, Nathan, E. W. Mills, Harcourt, Hunter, Dranafield, Tolhnrst, Deacon, Richardson, Crawford, Byrne, Bose, O. C. Graham, L. Levy, E. Pearce, C. O’Neill, Levin, Mclntyre, Young, Williams, J. H. Wallace, Gardiner, George, Mace, Bethuue, Hutchison, Griffiths, Holt, Martin, Powles, Pownall, Kreeft, and Dr. Diver. president’s address. The President : As this is the quarterly meeting, it is my duty to inform you of what has been done since the last meeting. The committee have had under consideration the extension of wharf accommodation and the construction of a railway wharf, but we have not advanced much further than we were at the beginning of the quarter. We have received from the Government an assurance about the reclaimed laud at Thorndon—if the papers are correct—that it is willing to have it transferred to the city upon what will, I think, be very favorable terms. The matter of wharf extension is still in abeyance, and I believe nothing will be done by the Government in it until the reclamation has been finished, either as regards the railway wharf or the other. Therefore this matter will have to he left over for the consideration of the committee. Another item is with respect to tailing a part of the reclamation for a wharf and a wet dock. The committee met the City Council at the time that Sir John Goode was here. The desirablity of connecting the railway with the wharf was impressed upon the Government, and Sir John Goode was requested to point out what would be the most favorable place for additional wharves at To Avo, for no doubt it will be necessary to have wharves there for coal, timber, &o. The desirability of amending the law relating to bills of sale has been considered, and the matter is in the hands of Mr. Travers, who has promised to draw a Bill, to be laid before Parliament, giving effect to the proposed amendments. The action of the Chamber with regard to a new Court House has resulted in some fruit. The Government have sold the old site, and a new Court House will soon be built. It will be for the Chamber to urge upon the Government to call for tenders for the erection of the building as soon as possible. The Chamber .have represented to the Government the inadequacy of the pay of special jurors, and recommended that instead of having special juries of 12 there should be fewer jurymen, with more pay. We were referred to the Minister of Justice, but we have not been able to catch that gentleman, who has only paid flying visits here, but the Minister has communicated with Sydney, to learn the system adopted there. The removal of the powder magazine has received the attention of the committee, but we have nothing further from the Government than that it has had most careful consideration. Severalletters have been written to the Government, but the matter has not got beyond what I have said. You will remember that Mr. Woodward was desirous that the fees charged for Post Office orders should be lowered on small sums, and the Postmaster - General says the matter will receive further consideration. Another item which the Chamber has taken up is the rate of port charges here, and a reply has not yet been received from the Government about it. The Chamber found that the port charges here were higher than in other places. Lyttelton and Wellington were about the same; but in Auckland and Dunedin the charges were less, particularly in the former. This has probably arisen from the control of this matter being in the hands of the. Harbor Board; therefore, if the Government brings in a Harbor Board Bill, and a Board has charge here, this will be amended. At present Wellington is at a great disadvantage; for instance, pilotage in Auckland is Bd. and 2d. per ton, and in Wellington fid. and 4d. In Auckland wharfage is Id., and here 2d. to 3d. As the matter is one of the greatest importance, the committee will take it up warmly, and I hope that some good will result. The kerosene question was considered at a special meeting, and it was agreed to take action in common with the City Council; but there is now no immediate hurry for anything being done, because no vessels with kerosene are expected to arrive shortly, and before the next comes in the City Council will have met the difficulty. In reference to the Hon. Mr. Macandrew’s proposal for direct steam communication with ■ England, the committee was not unanimous as to what should be done, and it was left over for discussion at this meeting. FINANCE. The Secretary (Mr. Carroll) stated that the amount to the credit of the Chamber, when all subscriptions had been paid, would be £321. DIRECT STEAM COMMUNICATION WITH ENGLAND. Mr, Dransfield said, with reference to the correspondence that had taken place between the Hon. Mr. Maoandrew and the AgentGeneral on the subject of direct steam communication between England and this colony, he thought it would form an important part of the duty of the Chamber to strengthen his hands, if they agreed with his views, by passing a resolution in support of the course the honorable gentleman was endeavoring to carry out. Surely, there could be no difference of opinion as to tho desirability of such a course being adopted. _ Ha was only sorry, and he believed his opinion was shared by a very large section of the community, that at the initiation of the Public Works policy direct steam communication betwixt England and the colony had not been arranged. With the large amount of material the Government had brought out, and the number of immigrants they had paid for, a very small subsidy for a mail service would have enabled one to be established, and it would have proved one of the most profitable services the colony could possibly have established. Neither the San Francisco route nor the Suez route could have borne any comparison with it as to its value to tho colony. He was satisfied that Mr. Maoandrew was a gentleman who had the ability to think the matter carefully out ; and it had been a hobby of the hon. gentleman’s for tho last twenty years. For tho last few years he himself had thought a good deal about the matter. This was an opportunity when the members of the mercantile communities could express their views, and he hoped that a unanimous vote would bo passed in support of Mr. Maoandrew in the course he had adopted. With that view he had moved a resolution in that direction in the committee, and had been under the impression that the committee had been unanimously in favor of it, but the chairman did not think they had been. It was now for members to express their views upon the subject, and it they agreed with him and Mr. Maoandrew, that to establish such a service would be a benefit to the colony, he hoped they would all support the resolution he would move, —That this Chamber ought to use its influence to support the Hon. Mr. Maoandrew’s proposal to encourage direct steam communication between England and the colony. Captain Williams seconded the motion. Mr. RICHARDSON (Wilson and Richardson) urged the Chamber to [support the motion.

Such a route would be a great boon to the city. Many goods had to be sent out rapidly to meet the market, and they found their way here round by Melbourne. That principally applied to his own. business, in which it was often very desirable to have a rapid transit, and it suited them better to pay high freights, in order to get them via Melbourne, If Wellington were the first to get steam communication between this colony and London, it would reap benefit from all the New Zealand ports. Therefore it was highly desirable that the should use their influence to promote such a service.

Mr. Hunter said the last speaker seemed to have jumped to the conclusion that the necessary effect of having steam communication with England would he that the route would be direct from Wellington to the mother country. It was not by any means clear, in the letter received from Mr. Macandrew, that the service would take that shape. There had since been a proposal that some arrangement should be made by which steamers would visit the four principal ports of New Zealand ; but that would very much impair the material benefits of the service. It was an importaut question, and it would not do for Wellington to run away with the idea that the steamers would necessarily come to this port. Mr. Dransfield had referred to the San Francisco and Suez mail services, but he himself would be very sorry to see either of these services interfered with. They were only supported as mail services at present, and the contributions to them were exceedingly small compared with the very great benefits and advantages the colony derived. They had to consider whether in gaining one point they might not lose another. The Californian service had always been a pet scheme of Mr. Maoandrew’s, for he introduced it to Parliament, and had always been in support of " it; but no doubt the fact of having the steamers to call at one port alone had impaired its popularity. In arranging for that service Wellington had to give way, and perhaps in this route Wellington might have to give place again. The Chamber ought not to look to the interests of one particular locality with which they happened to be connected, but should support that which would be for the interest of the whole country. It was a question whether if they had to give up the San Francisco service or the Suez service, they would receive an adequate benefit in return. The proposal had been brought forward in a shape in which one and all could safely support it, but there had not been many details or particulars furnished in connection with it. With regard to the saving on the freight of goods, that seemed to be a matter which was rather over-estim-ated. These large steamers were very expensive things to deal with. The freight by the Californian service had not developed to the extent expected, and the same might be found with a direct steam route, for there would always he the expense of having the goods distributed to the North and to the South. His own feeling would be to support the proposal, but at the same time he would not support anything which would diminish or curtail the advantages now derived from the existing mail services, by which letters were received and despatched with great regularity, and with great benefit to the colony. It was constantly said that the Californian service cost the colony this or that sum, bat the whole cost, excepting some seven or eight thousand a year, was defrayed by the charges upon letters, &o. If they did not get their letters by way of San Francisco, but by Suez, they would have to pay £20,000 or £30,000 to the Victorian Government, instead of £IO,OOO they now paid. The San Francisco was a selfsupporting service, for the letters almost paid the subsidy.

The Chairman wished to correct in one particular Mr. Dransfield, who said that if tho late Ministry had tried to get a direct steam steam service at the commencement of the Public Works policy, it would have been a great success. The Mongol was chartered as an experiment, and it turned out a total failure. Otherwise, he agreed with Mr. Dransfield to a certain extent. As Mr. Hunter had pointed out, as long as they did not lose the San Francisco service, the direct route would be advantageous, for there were many passengers going Home from here; and, as Mr. Kichardson pointed out, drapers got their goods byway of Melbourne and Sydney now. Mr. Tolhuest would support Mr. Dransfield’s resolution, because he believed the day was not far distant when subsidies to mail services would cease altogether, and Governments would find it convenient and necessary to subsidise cable companies, so that cheap telegrams might be the order of the day. The paying of a subsidy for a direct steam service from England to this colony would rather hasten that day. In other colonies it had been urged to discontinue subsidies to steamers, especially since the large steam companies had sent out their vessels without any subsidies whatever, the Government being pressed to subsidise telegraph companies rather than steam lines. A direct service would be a great advantage to the colony, for passengers and goods would go by it instead of via Australia. Mr. Hutchison asked the subsidy proposed to be given ? The Chairman said they had no information about it.

Mr. Peaece intended to support the resolution, but would not have spoken had it not been for Sir. Tolhurst’a remarks. There was a good deal of misapprehension upon the question of subsidies. In fact, New Zealand was paying scarcely any subsidy at all for the SanFrancisco mail service, which was rapid and regular. They could not expect any steam company to carry their letters for nothing. A contract was now in existence, and he believed that before it expired the colony would not be paying one penny to the company, for every farthing of the subsidy would be, received back for letters ; and Mi. Hunter made that clear. There was a misapprehension as to the effect of paying a subsidy, for it was simply a guaranty given for carrying letters ; the company carried the letters and charged the colony for doing so, and the colony received what was paid by the parties sending the letters ; and he believed that in a very few years the balance would be on the right side—■ that the colony would receive more than the amount paid to the company. He hoped no steps would be taken to set the present arrangement aside. He would ask - the chairman in what respect the Mongol was a failure ? That steamer came out very rapidly. He happened to have some goods in her, which arrived about a fortnight before the documents came by the Suez Mail advising them. He actually found the goods in Wellington long before he received the advice by the mail. The Chairman said the Government had tried the direct route with the Mongol, and had never tried it again. They said it did not answer to get immigrants out by steamers, Mr. Peaece asked in what respect ? The Chaieman replied that he had had chats with Sir Julius Yogel about it, and he said they would not try it again. The passage was the fastest to New Zealand on record—forty-eight days. Mr. C. O’Neill thought it would be well to prevent any future misunderstanding as to the port of call; it would be desirable to indicate a wish that the Government should appoint one port in the colony to which the service should run. It must be recognised that Wellington was the capital of the colony, and no other town would be chosen.

Mr. Levin thought it would be very undesirable to add a rider such as that suggested by Mr. O’Neill. This was not a question of one place against another, but it was one for the benefit of the whole colony. He agreed with those who desired that this service should not be advocated at the expense of the withdrawal of the San Francisco and Suez services. It had been advocated, and especially in the mother country, that a system of subsidising telegraph lines instead of steam mail routes should be adopted. He believed that for the last ten years,_ each occasion when the subsidy to the Peninsular and Oriental Company for the carriage of mails to the East Indies had been brought before Parliament, there had been, a _ cry against continuing the subsidy. Subsidising telegraph lines had been advocated. An immense number of companies ran steamers through the Suez Canal, but hitherto the Imperial Government had thought it wjse to subsidise a company with a large capital and fleet to carry the Indian mails. He would be very glad to see the direct steam service, but he was afraid the colony was hardly old enough for it. They compared themselves to Victoria and New South Wale% who had direct steam services, but the expe~rience of New Zealand as to such a service had not been very satisfactory. They lately heard of one steamer having broken down, and probably having disappointed many consignees, and another had gone . ashore. These long mail steam routes were a very questionable advantage, and they were still in their infancy. Besides, this colony had such a small population compared with New South Wales and Victoria, that he doubted whether Now Zealand yet had the elements to make such a line a success. Mr. Hutchison did not understand that it was proposed to do away with the subsidy to-

tlie Sac Francisco lino. It was simply a proposal to have direct steam communication between the colony and England, and he would support the motion. It was just possible, however, that they might pay too dear for their whistle. The question as to which port the steamers would call at was one which should not be mooted at that meeting, but there could be but little doubt which would in the long run be the port of call. Mr. Richardson asked whether any member could give information as to whether the Northumberland, Chimborazo, and other large steamers were subsidised? (No.) They paid remarkably well, and they were always full. Mr. K. .T. Duncan agreed with Mr. Drausfield that Mr. Macaudrew’s proposal should bo supported, and he was quite sure it would be supported by members of the Chamber and by the public throughout Wellington if it were properly understood. Wellington had never been behind in supporting any measure which would bring th's country into closer connection with Great Britain. The route proposed by Mr. Maoaudrew would be very advantageous if prudently managed. As to the insignificati ce of New Zealand, he was happy to say that the last census showed that the colony was rapidly advancing upon New South Wales aud 'V ictoria, and in n few years wo should bo ahead of them ; therefore it would be wise to look ahead in this matter. The merchants of Wellington should sink any personal interests, and support this route, for it would enable goods to be brought here cheaper and quicker. He would very much regret if the Chamber should refuse assent to such a resolution os that proposed by Mr. Dransfield. Mr. Dransfield, in reply, said he had been rather twitted with not having given the

Chamber information. What he wished to do was to call attention to letters written by Mr. - Macandrewto the Agent-General, pointing out the necessity for doing all that he could to encohrago'any company going in for a direct steam service between England and this colony. These were all'the details he had to give. Ho asked members to support Mz*. Macandrew'a proposal, and he was at a loss to understand how there should be tbe shadow of an objection to it. The mercantile interest, the travelling interest, and every other interest, would bo very much benefited by such a service. The travelling community wouldbe only too glad to go Home in 37 or 40 days, without so many transhipments of baggage as were now necessary. As a mail service it would be equal to either of the present services, if tbe voyage could be done in the time stated. As to the vessels breaking down, they broke down in other services, and he would like to know where there had been more breaks down than in the American mail service to this colony. The chairman bad referred to the Mongol, but it should be remembered that the public never had an opportunity of availing themselves of that ship. With reference to the port of call, he would remark that he thought when , provincialism was abolished the colony had done with local jealousies. Mr. Macandrew ■ had token a high stand in the matter, for he said, leave the question of the port of call to bo settled by the company that took np the service. That was the proper stand to take, and let Wellington stand on its own merits. Mr. Macandrew deserved the thanks, not only of the Chamber, but of tbe country, for the able manner in which ho had taken up the subject. The motion was then carried unanimously. sailors’ hour. Mr. Henry Davies wrote drawing the attention of the Chamber to the necessity for providing a sailor’s home in the city. The shipping of the port had increased, and the prosperity of the community had naturally followed; yet up to the present time nothing had been done to provide a home for merchant seamen. Such an institution would alike benefit seamen and the citizens. If such a movement were organised under the auspices of the Chamber of Commerce, it would meet with entire success. GOVERNMENT RESERVES. Mr. Pearce understood the chairman to congratulate the Chamber upon the sal s of tbe Court House on the previous day for a large sum. To his mind that was not a subject of congratulation, and ;he now alluded to it in order to draw the attention of the Chamber to a report that had been given currency to by the papers, that it was in contemplation by the Government, in addition to selling the Court House, to dispose of, in the same way, the Custom House, Post Office, and Telegraph Office. He did not believe that there could be any truth in such a report, but as it had been given currency to it was only right to put the Chamber on its guard against any such steps being taken by the Government. Those reserves ought to be jealously guarded. The ground sold on Tuesday would have made an admirable site for police offices, Resident Magistrate’s Court, &c. It was a grievous mistake to sell it. It was perfectly true that a new Supreme Court House was required, and it was proper that it should be built on tbe reclaimed land, but when it was proposed to sell the Custom House, &c., it was time to take a stand. The report was too vague to cause him to conclude with a resolution, and he had served his purpose by drawing attention to the matter.

Mr. Hutchison did not think members oE the Chamber were called upon to discuss the action of the Government, and to say that they disapproved of it. As to the statement that had appeared in the papers respecting the sale of the Post Office, &c., he really thought they should have nothing to do with what appeared in the newspapers. The report was too vague to Tie noticed by the Chamber. The Chairman desired to say that he had not congratulated the Chamber on the sale of the Court House. He quite agreed with Mr. Pearce that it ought not to have been sold. Mr. B. J. Duncan thought it was hardly right for the Chamber to say the Government had done wrong in selling the Court House. Last session the Legislature passed an Act which instructed the Government to sell the site, if they wished to erect another Court House. He heartily agreed with every word that Mr. Pearce uttered against the sale of the Post Office, for it was the best site in Wellington. He advocated the opening of branch post offices, especially in To Are. Mr., Nathan was sorry that Mr. Pearce had hot gone a little further. It was desirable to find out whether there was or was not any truth in the rumor that the Post Office was to he removed. It was a matter for serious consideration, and he would move,—That the committee ascertain whether there is any truth in the rumor that the Post Office, Telegraph Office, and Custom House are to bo sold. Mr. Haucouht seconded the motion. It was m6st important that the committee should ascertain whether there was any truth in the report which had appeared in the papers and had not been contradicted. Mr. Deansfield thought it was a mistake to pass such a resolution. The matter should come before them in some more tangible form than that of a penny-a-line report published in a newspaper. He objected to the Chamber thinking for a moment that the Government could possibly do such a thing. The Chairman pointed out that the committee could first ascertain from the Government whether they intended to sell the sites referred to. Mr. Pearce thought that Mr. Dranafield had said either toe mueh or not enough. If he voted against Mr. Nathan's resolution it would be gathered that he was in favor of the proposal that had been made_ to sell these sites. It had been mentioned in newspaper reports that the sale had been in contemplation, and ho hoped Mr. Eransfield would speak out in the matter. Members should be watchful and see that those sites were not sold in the same way as the Court House was. Ho was satisfied that if the town had been polled the result would have been against the sale. Wellington had but few reserves, and required them all. He regretted extremely that their representatives in Parliament last session should have permitted the Hill to pass,which gave the Government power to sell the Court House. If such a scheme were proposed next session with regard to the Post Office, their representatives ought to be called upon to oppose it. Mr. Dransfield expressed himself as being strongly opposed to a sale of the site of the present Post and Telegraph Offices, but ho had thought it was a matter of too great importance to deal with upon mere rumour. Mr. Hunter thought the matter was of quite sufficient importance to be brought under the notice of the committee. The accommodation afforded by the present Post and Telegraph Offices and Custom House was inade■quate, and they had a perfect right to call upon the Government to improve it. If the buildings were pulled down, and others erected in their place, it would be the best course to adopt. The present Post Office was in the best position in Wellington, and ho hoped it .would be kept there. The sale of the Court House was made under the provisions of the Public Reserve Sales Act. It was urged that the Court House should bo sold to provide funjls for erecting another. Ho pointed out in committee that Wellington was in a different position to other places , with respect to these matters ; that the Court of Appeal mot every thifee nlontha here, and it was the duty of the

colony to provide for that, and not of Wellington alone. The reserve sold yesterday could have been very beneficially occupied r-s a Resident Magistrate s Court, police offices, &o. The Government bad received a large amount of money, and it would be their duty to provide suitable accommodation in some other part of the town. It was not fair to forget the positioa Wcllington occupied as die capital of the colony, aud greater consideration for this should be shown than had been the case hitherto.

Mr. HoicnisoN pointed out that a reserve on tho reclaimed kind had been given in exchange,for the Court House site. Tho motion was then carried. NEW MEMBERS.

The following new members were elected by ballot:—W. 11. Warren, C. 11. Bllaby, J. if. Heaton, Marlin Chapman, C. C. Graham, J. D. Baird, and T. G. Maoarthy. The meeting then adjourned.