PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 5188, 7 November 1877, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, November 6. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. REPORTS. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN brought up the reports of the Waste Lands Committee on the Public Reserves Sale Bill, the Dunedin Gaol Street BUI, the Havelock Commonage Bill, and the Special Contracts Confirmation Bill, The reports were read, and the Bills ordered to be committed next sitting day. The Hon. Sir E. D. BELL brought up the report of the select committee on the New Plymouth Harbor Board Bill, which was read, and the Bill ordered to be committed on next sitting day. PAPERS AND RETURNS. Certain papers were laid on the table of the Council by the Hon. Colonel Whumohe relative to further regulations under the Public Works Act. MOTION WITHOUT NOTICE. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN moved without notice, and it was carried,—That a message should be sent to the House of Representatives, asking permission for the Hon. Mr. Reynolds to attend and give evidence before the Waste Lands Committee on the Port Chalmers Compensation BUI. ifESSAGES. A message was received from the House of Representatives, to the effect that they agreed in the amendments made by the Council in the following Bills i-The St. Andrews {Wei-Un-ton) Church BUI, the Lyttelton Harbor Board Land Bill, and the Peninsula County Libraries BUI ; also another message stating that leave had been granted to Mr. Kelly to attend and give evidence before the select committee on the New Plymouth Harbor Board Bill. NOTICES OP MOTION. The Hon. Dr. MENZIBS gave notice that on next sitting-dav be should move for leave to introduce a BUI intituled the Wyndham Recreation Reserves Bill. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE gave notice that on next sitting day he should move for certain alterations to be made m the Public Reserves Sale Bill and the Special Contracts Confirmation Bill. NEW BILL. The Hon. Dr. MENZIES obtained leave to introduce a BUI intituled the Wyndham Show Ground Reserve Act.—The Bill was read a first time, and its second reading made an order of the day for next sitting-day. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time, and passed:—The Volunteersaud Others Land Bill the Wakapuaka Telegraph _ Station Site Bill', the Dunedin Town Hall Site Bill, the Waiwera School Glebe Exchange Bill, the City of WeUington Loans Consolidation Act Amendment Bill, and the Lawrence Municipal Waterworks Bill. SECOND READINGS. The following BUIs were read a second time, and ordered to be committed as under The Slaughterhouse Bill (Hon. Colonel Whitmore), the Domicile Bill (Hon. Mr. Hart), the Manawatu Land Orders BUI (Hon. Colonel Whitmore), and the Waikato Hospital Reserves Exchange BiU (Hon. Colonel Whitmore) next sittin- day. In the absence of the Hon. Mr. Campbell the City of Dunedin Loans Consolidation Bill was read a second time on the motion of the Hon. Colonel Whitmore, and ordered to be referred to the Waste Lands Committee. OAMARU RESERVES BILL. The Hon. Mr. MILLER moved the committal of this Bill, but the Hon. Sir F. D. Bell moved, and it was subsequently carried, that the BUI be ordered to be read again that day three months; consequently the BiU was thrown out. crown grants act amendment BILL. This Bill was withdrawn by the Hon. Colonel Whitmore, and finally discharged from the Order Paper. ORDERS OF THE DAY. The following were discharged and made orders of the day for next sitting day 'The Education Reserves Bill, the Public Reserves Bill, the District Railways BiU, and the Gold Mining Districts Act 1573 Amendment Bill (second readings); and Jhe Education Bill, the Auckland College and Grammar School Bill, and the Otago Girls and Boys High Schools Bill to be further considered in committee. PETITION. The debate on the petition of Thomas Thomson (harbormaster at the Bluff) was resumed, and eventually the following motion was carried :—That this Council doth concur in the report of the Public Petitions Committee ou the petition of Thomas Thomson, and that a copy of this resolution be forwarded to the Government, with the suggestion that this and similar cases he dealt with on a liberal and uniform principle. The Council then (at 5 p.m.) adjourned till the usual hour next day. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, November 6. The Speaker took the chair at half-past 2 o’clock. NO-CONFIDENCE MOTION. On the question being called on, no bon. member rose to addresi the House, and after the usual time had elapsed, the Speaker put the question, and declared the noes to have it on the voices. Several hon. members said « The ayes have it,” and on the Speaker proceeding again to put the question, The Hon. Mr. McLEAN rose and said at the present position of the debate it was not his intention to speak ; but he noticed that the hon. gentlemen on the Treasury benches were 'very fidgetty on their seats, and he would give them time to marshal their forces. It was now only five minutes after the hour of meeting, and it would not be fair to take a vote in so short a time. Mr. McLean then addressed himself to the short Financial Statement made by the Colonial Treasurer a few days ago. He had no doubt that the name of Mr. Larnach was well-known on the Stock Exchange, but when he assumed the office of Colonial Treasurer he should be guarded in his statements regarding the finances of the colony. He had stated that the debt of the colony was, on the 13th June last, £ 1 9,895,000. That statement was correct if £1,000,000 was deducted on account of sinking fund. He also added £BOO,OOO of Imperial guaranteed debentures, which were already included in the £19,895,000. The SPEAKER here interrupted the hon, member, and stated that according to Parliamentary rules the debate had already closed, and he would now put the question. . Mr. Reid, Major Atkinson, and Mr. Moorhouse rose to speak, but there was such an uproar, and cries of “ Question' and “ Order, order,” that their voices could not be heard. During the tumult, the Speaker was heard to express himself that the hon. gentlemen were out of order, and that the question must be put without further discussion. The question was then put, with the following result :—Ayes, 39 ; noes, 39. The following is the division-list :

The SPEAKER said he would follow the usual course, and vote with the noes in order that there might be another opportunity of discussing the question. The Hon. Mr. STAFFORD drew attention to an hon. member voting for the noes, who

had declared himself on the voices for the ayes. He referred to the hon. member for GeralThe hen. member (Mr. Wakefield) said the question had been put several and in the confusion he had once said “Aye.” However, when the question was last put, he vociferously declared for the noes.—The Speaker said it was the rule that a member shouldvote ou the same side as he gave his voice. However, he accepted the explanation of Mr. Wakefield that it was an inadvertency on his P!l Major ATKINSON then moved the followin<* amendment:—That this House expresses its opinion that as the present Government have not the confidence of the House they should immediately resign. Some objection was raised to Major Atkinsou moving the amendment, as he had moved the original motion ; and he did not press it, stating that he would get another hon. member to move it. The SPEAKER was understood to say that he looked upon the motion as an original one. Mr. McLEAN, referring to the previous question, said he would not have complained if he had been informed by the Speaker, at the commencement of his address, that he was out of order, but he was allowed to proceed some time with his speech before he was interrupted by the Speaker. The SPEAKER said that it was purely through indulgence that the lion, member was allowed to proceed with bis speech, as he (the Speaker) wished to be certain before ruling him out of order. If the Speaker’s ruling was disputed, it was quite competent for any member to move to that effect. Mr. McLEAN then moved the amendment which had previously been moved by Major Atkinson, and in doing so said the vote just given was a catch one. They had a perfect knowlege that three members of the Opposition were absent. No Ministry having any idea of manliness would sit on the Treasury benches by the casting vote of the Speaker. Mr. McLean then continued his previous remarks, and stated that the £300,000 also was included in the £19,895,000. There was a deficiency of £167,000, and the previous Ministry had shown clearly how that deficiency was to be made up. The speaker then dealt with the figures given by the Colonial Treasurer, with the object of showing that the amounts which he added were already included in the original amount he stated. It had been stated by the Colonial Treasurer that the £170,000 claimed by contractors would have to be paid, but the amounts were in litigation, and in his (Mr. McLean’s) opinion they should not be paid. Eor the Premier to get up arid say that these claims would have to be paid would encourage litigation. Besides the claims would have to be included in the charge for constructed railways. Speaking of the £500,000 borrowed in New South Wales, it would be favorable to the credit of the colony in the Home market, as it would show that an institution having branches all over the colony had confidence in the financial condition of the colony. He then alluded to the statement of the Premier that there would be no shortness of money as long as large sums accrued from the sale of public lands. Sir GEORGE GREY denied that he had ever uttered anything which would show that he intended to sacrifice the public estate by selling it in large blocks. Mr. McLEAN said that was certainly the natural inference to be drawn from his words. He then proceeded to show that the manner by which the present Government got into office did not entitle them to the confidence of the House. Hon. members had been deluded , into believing that the members of the present Government did not seek had got into office by fair constitutional means he would have exerted his influence to keep them in power for the present year. Mr. McLean defended the native policy of the late Government, and pointed out the native claims which were now being brought before the House owing to the encouragement the natives had received to do so by the present Government. Some of these claims were thirty years old ; hut they were now urged because the Hawke’s Bay Repudiation Party were in power. He said the policy of the late Government was not to centralise, but to decentralise, and it was their intention to give the County Councils large local powers. When Mr. McLean sat down a discussion arose as to whether the motion was in order, as it was contended by Mr. O’Rorke and others that it was substantially the same as the one that had already been negatived. Mr, Reid and Major Atkinson were of opinion that the rule did not apply to votes of no confidence, as it was highly desirable that the House should at all times have an opportunity of expressing its opinion as to the fitness of Ministers. The SPEAKER intimated that he would take time to consider the matter, and would give his decision at half-past 7. The House then rose, and on resuming at 7.30, The SPEAKER gave his ruling on the question of whether the amendment moved by Mr. McLean could be put. He decided that the amendment could not be put. The amendment of Mr. Reynolds’ to the noconfidence motion was then put, and negatived on the voices. Messages were received from the Legislative Council as to the passage and amendment of certain Bills. The House then proceeded to the business on the Order Paper. QUESTIONS. In reply to !Mr, Sharp, Sir George Grey stated that the Government would in a few days lay -before the House a return of the number of officers employed by the various municipalities of the colony, the amount of salary of each officer, and the amount of travelling allowances or expenses paid to such officers. Mr. BURNS asked the Minister of Justice, —Whether Messrs. Daldy, Isaacs, and O’Neill have made any reparation to, Mrs. McManus for their illegal conduct towards her son, as recommended by the Public Petitions Committee in the report laid before the House on the 17th August last ; and, if reparation has not yet been made, whether his Excellency the Governor will he advised to strike the names of Messrs. Daldy, Isaacs, and O’Neill off the list of justices of the peace for the colony, as further recommended by the Public Petitions Committee. The Hon, Mr. SHEEHAN was understood to say that Mr. Daldy had resigned, and that an inquiry would be made into the evidence taken on the subject, and action taken thereon. Ho further stated that na means had been adopted to make reparation to Mrs. McManus, and it was not intended so to do. Several questions affecting local matters in various parts of the colony were put aud answered. Notices of questions and motions were then given. bills introduced. The following Bills were introduced aud road a first time A Bill to amend the Electric Telegraph Act, 1875 (Hon. Mr. Fisher) ; the Borough of New Plymouth Endowment Bill (Mr. Kelly) ; the Public Health Act Amendment Bill, No. 2 (Mr. Moorhouse) ; a Bill to vest certain lands in the Timaru Harbor Board (Hon, Mr. Stafford). Sir GEORGE GREY introduced a Bill to amend the present Disqualification Act, and it was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday next. THE PRIVILEGE QUESTION. Mr FOX asked the Government whether any communication had taken place between his Excellency and the Government in reference to the question of privilege ? Sir GEORGE GREY replied in the affirmative, and said so soon as the communications were closed he would inform the House of the result. ORDERS OP THE DAY. Orders of tho day from 1 to 16 were postponed till Monday next by general consent. WANGANUI HARBOR AMENDMENT AND ENDOWMENT BILL. The amendments made by the Legislative Council in this Bill were, on the motion of the Hon. Mr. Fox, agreed to. OTHER BILLS. Mr. KI(LLY moved the second reading of the Disqualification Bill, which was carried,

and the committal of the Bill made an order of the day for Thursday next. ; The Taranaki County Reserves .Bill and Milford Harbor Bill were read a second time. The Queenstown Athemeum Bill was read a second time, committed, read a third time, and passed. The amendments made by the Legislative Council in the new River Harbor Management Bill were agreed to. The Lotteries and Art Unions Bill was read a second time on the motion of Mr. Stout, and ordered to be committed on Thursday next. The Kakanui Harbor Board Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday next. The Waikouaiti Harbor Endowment Bill and the Waikouaiti Athemeum Land Bill were read a second time. A discussion arose in committee on the Forest Trees Planting Encouragement Bill, having for its object the encouragement of planting trees by granting those who plant a bonus in the shape of laud. Both sides of the question were argued, and Mr. Joyce moved that Mr. O’Rorke leave the chair, as he believed it could do no possible good, the forests of New Zealand being sufficient to last for centuries if the demand for timber was double that at present, even supposing they did not plant a stick. Mr, J. E. Brown objected to the unlimited power contained in the Bill, aud said he knew of no more than three men in the colony whom it would be calculated to benefit. Ultimately, progress was reported, and leave obtained to sit again. The Strath Taieri and Clyde Railway Bill was committed, and discussion was taken upon it. Sir Robert Douglas moved that progress be renorted, on the ground that there was a thin House, from which the BiU or any other would not receive the requisite attention. The motion was negatived, and the Bill, after being subjected to trifling amendment, passed through committee, and was reported to the House. The Riverton Harbor Bill was also committed. The House rose at 12.45 a.m.

Atkinson OPPOSITION, Hunter Rowe Beetham Hursthouse Russell Bowen Lumsden Seaton Brandon Wanders Seymour Burns McLean (teller) Sharp Button Moorhouse Stafford Curtis Morris (teller) Stevens Douglas Murray-Aynslcy Sutton Fitzroy Ormond Tawiti Fox Reid Toschemaker Gibbs Richardson Whitaker , Harper Richmond Williams Henry Rolleston Woolcock. Baigent OOVBP.NMBNT, Hislop Reynolds Ballance Hodgkin son Seaton Barif Joyce Sheehan Brown. J.C.(teller)Kelly Shrimskl Brown, J, B. Larnach Stout Bryce Macandrew Swanson Bunny (teller) Macfarlano Taiaroa Carrington Montgomery Takamcana Dc Lautour Murray Thomson Dignan Nahe Tolo Fisher O’Rorko Wakefield Grey Tyke Wallis Hamlin Tices Wood, W.