PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 5182, 31 October 1877, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, Octobeb 30. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at ■ 2.30 p.m. REPORTS. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN brought up the reports of the Select Committee on Waste Landson the Akaroa Public Library Site-Bill, and the Wanganui Harbor Endowment and Borrowing Bill; the reports were read, and the Bills ordered to he committed next sitting day. MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN, by permission, moved without notice, and it was carried, That a message be sent ’ to the House of Representatives to ask permission for the Hon. Mr. Reid to attend and give evidence before the Waste Lands Committee on the Havelock Commonage Bill. The Hon. Captain BAILLIE, by permission, moved without notice, and it was agreed to, That a message be sent to the House of Representatives, asking permission for Mr. Atkinson and Messrs. Kelly and Carrington to attend and give evidence before the Public Petitions Committee. NOTICES OF MOTION. Two notices of motion for next sitting day were given by the Hon. Mr. HALL. MESSAGE. A message was received from the House of Representatives, to the effect that they agreed: in the amendments made by the Legislative Council iu various Bills transmitted to them. QUESTION, The Hon. Mr, NURSE, who was to have asked the Hon. the Colonial Secretary,— Whether it is true (as stated in an Otago paper) that the Invercargill Volunteers have been refused free passes on the Government railways, to enable them to attend the volunteer review in Dunedin on the Prince of Wales’s Birthday,—withdrew his question, as the Hon. Col. Whitmore had already informed him that the refusal had been withdrawn. MOTIONS. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE moved,— That the name of the Hon. Mr. Aclaud be discharged from the Waste Lands Committee, and the name of the Hon. Mr. Buckley be added thereto,—Agreed to. The Hon. Mr. HART moved,—That the despatch of the Duke of Newcastle, a copy of which was lately laid on the table by command of the Governor, be printed.—Carried. The Hon. Mr. HALL moved, —That this Council doth concur iu the report of the select committee upon the Canterbury grain traffic. —To this the Hon. Mr. Robinson moved an, amendment as follows ;—That this Council doth recommend that the Government take into their consideration the report of the select committee upon the Canterbury grain traffic. —Eventually the debate was (at I p.m.) adjourned till next sitting day. THIRD READINGS. The Mataura Reserve Bill and the New Zealand Law Society Act 1869 Amendment Bill were read a third time and passed. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were read a second time and ordered to be committed as 'under :—The Volunteers and Others Land Bill (Hon. Colonel Whitmore, presently); the Bankers Books Evidence Bill (Hon. Mr. Williamson, presently) 7 theLawrenceMunicipal Waterworks Bill (Hon. Mr. Miller). On the motion of the Hon, Dr. Menzies, this Bill was ordered to be referred to the following select committee :—The Hons. Messrs. Nurse, Miller, Paterson, and Dr. Menzies.—The Auckland City- Endowment and Reserves Bill (Hon. Colonel Whitmore, next sitting day); the Port Chalmers Compensation Bill (Hon. Colonel Whitmore, ordered to be referred to the Waste Lands Committee.) COMMITTALS. The Volunteers and Others Land Bill was committed and reported to the Council with amendments, its third reading being fixed for Friday next. The Bankers’„Books Evidence Bill was committed, reported to the Council with amendment, and ordered to be read a third time next sitting day. The Council then (at 5 p.m.) adjourned. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, October 30. The Speaker took the chair at the usual hour. NO-CONFXDENOB MOTION. The debate on Major Atkinson's motion was resumed. Mr. TAKAMOANA said he rose to speak in reference to the amendment of the hon. member for Port Chalmers. There was no reason why the present Government should be overthrown. It was on account of the policy of this Government respecting the natives that it was now desired that they should be subverted. This Government had committed no offence since its accession to office. He had no regret at the late Government being ousted. All the tribes of the island were well disposed to Sir George Grey. Should this new Government he defeated trouble would arise throughout the country. He concluded by stating that if matters were conducted iu a manner truthful he thought there was little fear of the present Government being turned out. Captain RUSSELL, in rising, referred to the speech of the hon. member who had last spoken. That hon. member, whenever he found his party threatened, iu return threatened this country with war. He (Mr. Russell) thought it was a dangerous and violent course which that hon. member urged. It was not altogether on the words of the hon. member that be (Mr. Russell) bad based this conclusion. The time of the House should not have been taken up by the prolonged debate. The House was ready for a division two days ago. He would say practically that there was no Government, and for this reason : It was undeniable that there was no intention of making the hon. member for the Thames Premier of the colony. The majority of the House did not place him in power, and a majority of that House would vote against him when the division was taken. It had been urged that the House should wait for the Financial Statement. Why did not the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer bring down bis Financial Statement ? There was nothing to prevent him from doing so while the debate was going on. But that had not been attempted. Mr. READER WOOD condemned the eagerness of the hon. member for Egmont to return to office as a fatal mistake, which, even if it succeeded temporarily, would force him to refer the question to the country. Mr. Wood contended that every possible chance had been accorded to the Middle Party, and that party had only made itself ridiculous. Mr. Travers had tried to get the • Middle Party to sign an agreement to follow Sir W. Fitzberbert, because that party had no leader ; and when the others refused, the Middle Party got angry, and spoke of being deceived. They did not say by whom, for they did not wish to pretend that they had any communication, with Sir George Grey. Matters arrived at such a state that Sir George Grey had to come to the rescue, or the hon. member for Dunedin should give up the task of forming a Ministry, and so allow the late Government to return to office. In no other way than by colonializing th# land fund and other resources of the country could a healthy state of affairs be brought about. No Government that was not bold enough to face this question could hope for success or a long tenure. Mr. Wood then went on to criticise the speech of the hon. member for Wanganui, delivered the night previous, and argued that the figures put forth by the hon. the Premier were incorrect.. It was that hon. gentleman who first came forward and showed that it was a sham to issue Treasury bills with the full knowledge-that the Consolidated Fund could never redeem them. For years the colony had adopted this system. Mr. Reader Wood reviewed the speech delivered-bj the hon. member at the head of the Opposition. The reason stated by that hon. member for bringing forward the no-confidence motion was merely a stalking horse. It was nothing more than a desire to get back to office. Theie was one thing certain, that whatever might be 1 the result of the motion then before the House it must eventuate in the people of the

country being appealed to. To tire country theFarliament would have to go when no more ..than abare majority could be found on either side. It was imperative that the verdict of the country should he taken. - Dr. HODGKINSON contended that there were no grounds whatever to justify the motion of want of confidence in the present Government. He then went on to criticise at great length the personnel of the late Ministry, as compared with the present one. Mr. GIBBS objected to the Government side of the House monopolising all the patriotism in the country. He condemned the tone assumed by Mr. Takamoana in throwing out threats of native disturbances if the present Government were unseated. He (Mr. Gibbs) did not think the Government had any cause to complain of the course pursued by the hon. member for Egmont. The Government had had ample time to declare their policy if they had one, Mr. TAIAROA likened many of the speeches delivered by hon. members to the wind that blew from all quarters. For himself he was not a strong partisan of either one side or the other. What he wished to see carried out was the proper administration of affairs in such a way that both races would be benefited. A resolution was now brought forward to throw out the present Government. 'He was a supporter of the Government in the flays of his friend Sir Donald McLean, at whose death grief was expressed. Since then he (Mr. Taiaroa) had seen that the Government had done wrong. Now a new Government had been formed. Although he was confused in his thoughts when he had heard of this change, still he thought it was well that they should remain to carry on the affairs of the country. He did not know what evil this new Government had done einco it came into office. He had not gleaned from the many speeches delivered the future action intended to be followed with regard to the native race. Mr. Taiaroa then referred to the wrongs endured by the natives in the Middle Island. He was very dark with regard • to those grievances that in spite of his uutnerous .appeals still remained unredressed. It was necessary to have all those troubles set at rest before a unification of the two races could be arrived at. The education of the native children in the English language was an important measure calling for earnest attention from the parliament. He hoped whatever Government existed that this great question would not be lost sight of. Another matter urged by the natives was that they should be more fully represented in proportion to their population. Mr. TAWITI said he was elected to the House last year to represent his people. Their word to him was that he should support the late Government. It was owing to the late fighting that had taken place that he was unable" to see what really were the intentions of the Government. He was now prepared to vote with the Opposition. If his tribe disapproved of his doing so, on his return to his constituency it would be for them to find his successor. He concluded by again stating that he would give his vote with the Opposition. , Mr. BRYCE thought that the hon. member who had just sat down was quite right in voting in the direction be thought fit; but he (Mr. Bryce) thought that the reasons assigned were somewhat curions. The vote now asked for was not only one of want of confidence in the present Government, but a reversal of the vote that had lately been taken, and was intended to be a vote of confidence in Major Atkinson. Mr. Bryce then reviewed at some length the policy of the late Government, condemning among other ef its measures the action of the Legislature in respect to native lands. The late Government had throughout shown a great want of principle, and an utter incapacity to carry on the public business of the «onntry. Mr. BOWEN said the hon. gentleman who had last spoken always addressed his arguments to the House without indulging in unmannerly and disgraceful imputations that characterised the speeches of some hon. members. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Bryce) was therefore listened „o with pleasure. He (Mr. Bowen) regretted very much that during the debate exhibitions had taken place which reflected discredit upon the hon. members making them, and by reflection brought discredit on the House. So much-had been already said during this debate that he did not intend to detain the House long. Hon. members must in the first place have observed from the commencement that there was a determination on the part of the late Opposition to prevent the measures brought down by the Government from passing. The House would remember that a great deal of work was forced upon the Government by the abolition of the provinces, and the necessity for consolidating the laws. Such was the opposition put forward to all the measures brought down that it oertamlyseemed it was intended they should not bo carried. The outcome of all this was that there sprang up a third party in the House. This party grew up through seeing that the business of the country could not be carried on. It had been seen lately in England that a very small number were found sufficient to obstruct the business of the Imperial Parliament. In the present instance, therefore, he did not think it reasonable that blame should be imputed to the present Government for any delay in carrying out its measures. In consequence of this after two attempts the Government was defeated. If the party led by Major Atkinson were defeated by a majority of that House, they would certainly acquiesce, and no obstruction whatever would be thrown in the way. But they were entitled to see whether the Government really possessed that majority. They saw the reins of power seized by a minority in what seemed an unconstitutional manner. Therefore it was that their position was challenged, and the more straightforward course was to throw down that challenge at once. The Government have no right to complain of the action of his hon. friend the member for Egmont. The hon. member for Dunedin was the gentleman sent for to form a Ministry. After he formed his Government the Middle Party split in two. Hon. gentlemen were not to be blamed for taking aides after that rupture took place. He could not see why hon. gentlemen on the Opposition benches should be blamed for the action they had taken. There was no reason for the outrageous chargesthat had been thrown out because the Middle Party broke in two. It was perfectly outrageous that hon. gentlemen should throw out impertinent threats, and hold hon. members up to obloquy on account of the side they had taken up. The hon. member for Dunedin, the Colonial Treasurer, had himself voted for a considerable time during the present session with the late Government. With regard to the question of policy, a, great deal lyul been heard during the past two or three years of the policy of the hon. member at_ the 1 head ol the Government. It was said by him that it was to bo a liberal policy as opposed to the conservative policy of the last Government. He (Mr. Bowen) was confident that there were hon. members occupying the Opposition benches holding views as liberal as those on the other side. It was a serious thing to set up the claim of protecting the rights of man against the rights of property. He would say that the rights of property rightly understood involved the rights of man and the care of property. In this country there was no such thing as class, and he (Mr. Bowen) was sorry to see an attempt now made to raise such a cry. He knew many people in this country who landed without money or education who were now exceedingly well off, while many of those who arrived possessing both money and, education were now penniless. There was another question that had been alluded to, and that was the question of the separation or unity of the colony. He would confess that ho failed to clearly understand what the Hon. the Premier meant in his speech when he referred to the sublet. Any attempt at separation would be a source of dangerous weakness to the colony. He did not think that there was a desire on the part of members to turn out the Government for the sake of getting back to the Ministerial benches. The last occupants found those benches far from being a bed of roses But he would say that the all-important rmeation was whether or not that Government held its scat by the will of the majority of the

House ? That was a question that ought to be solved at once on account very unusual and unprecedented manlier in winch they had succeeded t* office, If the Government be found in the-majority they would have no occasion to fear the obstruction the late Government encountered. If they were in.tlm minority, then they should bow' to’ the decision of the House without creating obstruction. That there must be an appeal to . the country, very soon there could be no doubt, and he thought it very advisable that it should be so soon as our system of representation was put on a proper footing. He would venture to say that it would not be-the noisiest members of the House who would find an appeal, to the country the most satisfactory themselves. There had been something said about the ease with which the present Government had carried on the business of the country since they had got into office. He thought hon. gentlemen would know perfectly well that there was nothing easier in passing Bills through the House than to get one Government to prepare and another to carry them out. He could not think the Government had any right to claim credit for pushing through the House Bills framed by the late Government. Mr. Bowen concluded by stating that if it could be shown that the Government had really a majority when they brought down their Bills, every assistance would be given from his side of the House. Mr. REES said when the hon. member who had last spoken got up he always assumed the role of the good little boy, but he always managed before he sat down to make gross insinuations. He had taunted members on the Government side with making exhibitions of themselves ; but when an hon. member on his own side was guilty of an exhibition which made him the laughing-stock of the country, he was silent; and when a colleague had made the vilest speech which had ever been uttered in the House, he (Mr. Bowen) applauded him. The inference that was drawn, of the present Government wishing to set class against class, was absolutely untrue. The difference between the two divisions of the Middle Party was that those on his (Mr. Rees’) side of the House had strictly kept their promises, while those on the other side had deliberately broken theirs. The sole and simple reason that the no-confidence motion was brought, was that the hon. member for Egmont believed that he had a majority at his back, and not that he objected to the personnel of the Government. In the political crisis which took place in 1872, when Mr. Stafford took office, the Colonial Treasurer was allowed to bring down his Financial Statement, and the Public Works Statement was brought down before Mr. Vogel moved his no-confidence motion. The Government during the past five years had spent £15,000,000, enough to keep 30,000 people in constant employment. The Government were quite prepared to go to the country if it was thought the present House was not competent to carry on the government of the country. The speaker then adverted to a speech which had been made by Mr. Fox in 1869, casting contempt and scorn upon the colonial forces, at the very time the bodies of the gallant Von Tempsky and his comrades lay unburied. The hon. member for Wanganui would desire to shut out the natives from seeking redress in the Law Courts of the colony, but he (Mr. Rees) regarded facilities being offered them to resort to the Law Courts of the country to settle their grievances as the safeguard for the peace of the country. At one time the Treasury benches were divided between the hon. member for Timaru and the hon. member for Wanganui. They were quite content as long as they had their innings timeabeut, and no third party intruded upon the scene. But now another party had arisen, the party of the people, and now the two old leaders and their followers had combined to keep them from office. The party of progress would henceforth rule this colony: those who would afford means for settling the people upon the lauds, would distribute the burden of taxation -equitably, and insist that the laws of the country would be administered in a manner fair to all. Whichever way the vote went there would have to be an appeal to the country. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Larnach the House adjourned at 11.35.