PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 5181, 30 October 1877, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Monday, October 29. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m, REPORT. The. Hon, Dr, POLLEN brought up the report of the Select Committee on Waste Lands on the Kaiapoi Cemetery Bill—The report was read, and the Bill ordered to be committed next sitting day. NOTICES OP MOTION. Notices of motion for next sitting day were given by, the Hons. Messrs. Hart, Nurse, and Colonel Whitmore. motions. The Hon. Colonel BBETT, in the absence of the Hon. Captain Fraser, moved,—That leave of absence be granted to the Hon. Capt, Fraser for ten days from this day. —Agreed to. The i Hon. Mr. Hall’s motion, —That this Council doth concur in the report of the select committee upon the Canterbury grain traffic, —was postponed. The Hon. Mr. Peacock’s motion, —That, in the opinion of this Council, the Government should make inquiry into a report as to whether the necessary lights were earned at sea on board the Sohiehallion during the voyage from London,—was withdrawn. The Hon. Mr. MANTELL moved, —That the minutes of the proceedings of the Public Petitions Committee on the petition of Te Hapuku and others be printed as an appendix to Council Paper No. 6.—Agreed to. The Hon. Colonel Brett’s motion,—That the name of the Hon. Mr. Acland be discharged from the Waste Lands Committee, and that the name ef the Hon. Mr. Buckley be added thereto,—was withdrawn. ORDERS OP THE DAT. The St. Andrew’s Church (Wellington) Trustees Act 1873 Amendment Bill, the Wellington Reserves Act 1876 Amendment Bill, the New Plymouth Harbor Board Ordinance 1875 Amendment Bill, the City of Dunedin Loins Consolidation Bill, the Akaroa Public Library Site Bill, and the Dangerous GoodsActs Amendment Bill were read a second time. The City of Wellington Loans Consolidation Act Amendment Bill and the Lyttelton Harbor Board Land Bill were committed, but progress was soon reported, and leave obtained to sit again. The Mataura Reserve Bill, theTapauui Agricultural and Pastoral Exhibition Reserve Bill, the Dangerous Goods Acts Amendment Bill, the N. Z. Law Society Act 1869 Amendment Bill, and the Ponsonby Highway District Bill were committed, and reported to the Council. THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time, and passed :—The Dangerous Goods Act Amendment Bill, the Tapauui Agricultural and Pastoral Exhibition Reserve Bill; and the Ponsonby Highway District Bill. , The Council then (at 5 p.m.) adjourned till the usual hour next day. 1 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Monday, October 29. The SPEAKER took . the chair at half-past, 2 o’clock. The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN laid upon the table of the House the telegram from Manuhiri to Sir George Grey congratulating the Premier upon his accession to office, also telegrams from Tawhiao and Major Te Wheoro. Mr. Sheehan remarked that this was the first communication received from the Maori King since the time of the Waikato war in 1863. LOTTERIES AND ART UNIONS ACT, 1877. This Bill was received by message from the Legislative Council, and read a first time. NO CONFIDENCE MOTION. The adjourned debate on the question,— That this House has no confidence in the Government ; and the amendment, —That, as the Govermnent.have not yet declared their policy, this House declines in the meantime te entertain the question of “ confidence” or “ no confidence” in the Ministry,—was resumed. Mr. SHRIMSKI said that when he moved the adjournment of the debate on Friday night he did so for two reasons—first, that it was; impossible to conclude the debate on that occasion ; and secondly, in order to allow members to calmly consider the motion before the House. In the speech delivered by Major Atkinson on Friday night he saw nothing but a desire on the part of the present Opposition to regain the seats on the Ministerial benches. The manner in which their successors had conducted the business of the country since they obtained possession of those benches was far preferable to the way the late Government had acted. Mr. Shrimski then went on to condemn the action of the late Government with respect to the publication of the Waka Maori and the libel upon Mr. Russell. Mr. CUhTIS said that it was a remarkable thing that all the speakers who had addressed the House on behalf of the Government had asked the House to consider the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government as a new man, and to forget his past career and past speeches in the history of the colony. . Had he (Sir George Grey) moved the vote of want of confidence in the late Government which had. been carried, instead of the hon. member for Dunedin, it would have been lost by a great majority, because the views he (Sir G. Grey) had propounded were well-known, especially so regarding the question of separation. No Government which advocated separation would have his (Mr. Curtis’) vote, nor could he haveany confidence in gentlemen who, when in office, abandoned the principles they held while in opposition. ' Every member of the Government voted last year .in favor of the financial separation of the colony. The hon. member for Port Chalmers had said the Government had not yet made its statement. No sooner had the Government come into office than it made a' deliberate statement of its policy. Only one important point was left out, and that was respecting their policy in regard to financial matters. Mr. Curtis then said he would proceed to examine briefly the policy enunciated by the Government. Upon the subject of the unity 'of the colony there was in the speech of the Premier an ominous silence. Nor was there anything to show that he would be able to place the financial condition of the colony upon a sounder basis than at present. The hon. gentleman had referred to retrenchment in his Ministerial statement. So far from retrenchment being effected in the direction indicated by the hon. the Premier, he (Mr. Curtis) thought it should take a different course. In the matter of railways, for instance, the committee appointed to inquire into the railway’system of the colony, and which had now been sitting for many weeks past, would in all probability recommend a system of local, management. With regard to effecting retrenchment by making a reduction in the Ministerial salaries, a similar policy had some years ago been adopted in. the Nelson Provincial Government. It was 'on a cry of that kind, that the Executive got into office. But it was speedily [ found that instead of the salaries of the Government being decreased, they were raised. Sir George Grey had avoided stating that the heads of the departments were over paid, but he proposed simply to reduce the salaries of Ministers, because it -was thought they could best afford it. It would not be a very courageous thing to reduce the salaries of those whose rate of pay was already low compared with that of men in mercantile establishments. Last year Sin George Grey voted against the seat of Government being in Wellington. He (Mr.

Curtis) was opposed tothe ■ proposition- of Sir • George Grey to form an office of Minister for Mines. The representations put forth .by Dll’. George Grey as to extending the franchise and being guided by the popular mil, were equally unsatisfactory. Mr. Curtis went on to defend hitnself against the charges of inconsistency alleged by the hon. member for Mount Ida in his speech on Friday last. After reviewing his own political conduct up to last session, when the question of the abolition of the provinces was carried, Mr. _ Curtis stated that he had at a meeting informed the Government that he would vote against them for the colonisation of the land fund. When the Middle Party was formed, and after full consideration, believing a change of Government would be beneficial to the colony at large, he joined the Middle Party on the distinct understanding that neither Sir George Grey nor his immediate followers would either seek or take office. Upon those grounds he voted tor the no-con-fidence motion, and very soon afterwards Sir Georn-e Grey, through his friends, expressed a desire that he (Sir George Grey) should take office. He (Mr. Curtis) and others immediately refused to follow him, and promised support to Major Atkinson in bringing forward the present motion. He hoped that motion would be carried, and result in the formation of a really strong Ministry possessing both the confidence of the House and the C °MivJ. E. BROWN desired to knowhow many of those who, like the hon. gentleman who had just sat down, had deserted the Middle Party, expected to he in the new Ministry ? It was said that four at least were anticipating that honor. Major Atkinson presented a pitiable sight in endeavoring to get back to office. It had been shown that Sir George Grey had experienced great difficulty in having the Ministerial seats filled up That showed that the party to which he belonged were not hungering after office, but supported Sir George Grey from a feeling that the ' principles he put forth were rmht. There was no sham about Sir George "Grey. He would not put forth a sham statement of the financial condition of the colony. He would, if left in office, place before the country a real and fair statement, and boldly ask to have done what was necessary to restore the public credit, whether it was to generalize the land fund or impose a property lax. He would himself vote for whatever was shown to be necessary to preserve our credit. Mr. Brown then went on to strongly condemn the administration of the Public Works policy of the colony. The whole railway system was as bad as it could be. One of the great faults of the late Government was that it relegated everything to the officials. Mr. SI) TTON thought it was quite unfair to judge Ministers by tbeir past utterances and conduct, without waiting for them to develops any new policy. The policy lately foreshadowed by the Premier was of strong Radical tendencies, while that of his colleague in the Legislative Council was directly opposite. the Hon. the Premier intimated that it was intended to reduce the salaries, while his colleague in the Legislative Council there stated that such was not intended. But there greater misunderstanding among Ministers m regard to ether important measures. A great deal had been said about the telegram received from Manuhiri. He (Mr. Sutton) would like to see an impartial translation of that telegram. But even taking the translation it simply meant that Manuhiri’s hopes of getting back the Waikato lands for the Waikatos were raised by Sir George Grey's accession to office—that the natives would get what they failed to obtain from the late Ministry. The telegram was by no means of the importance it was enueavored to show that it possessed. The telegram was sent to order, and was a Government message Mr. Sutton complained that with regard to° the land fund it was vanishing by the land itself being allocated for railway purposes. Since the present Government had taken office 750,000 acres were appropriated for particular schemes. Mr. THOMSON said no doubt additional interest was added to the motion then before the House owing to the fact that the present Premier had been Governor of this as well as other colonies. They found the hon. member coming down with a motion expressing no confidence in the Government. He thought that in no country in the world where Parliamentary Government prevailed could such a motion bs accompanied by such a speech as that delivered on Friday night. The hon. member for Nelson, in condemning the Government, stated that be was dissatisfied because the Government had not disclosed its policy. He (Mr. Thomson) would ask had that Government possessed sufficient time to enter fully into the financial affairs of the colony in such a way as to enable them to place accurate information before the public. He did not think that in the space of a fortnight the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer could give them that information. The desire on the part of the late Ministers to get back to office might, Mr. Thomson went on to say, be ascribed to that instinctive love of place found to be possessed by cats. It was quite clear that the finances of the colony were in a very unsatisfactory state, and from the failure of the late Government it was but fair to give their successors a chance. The late Government had been a very expensive one. It had been shown by the hon. member for Akaroa (Mr. Montgomery) that during the last two years the late Government had borrowed a sum of £8,800,000. It had also been pointed out that it would require a sum of £5,000,000 at the present time to place the finances of the colony on a proper basis. The Hon. W. FOX, in rising, said he did not like a debate of the nature then before the House to close without saying a few words. He would say at the outset that he could not vote for the amendment of the hon. member for Port Chalmers, and for these reasons : It either asked too much or not enough. It would imply that we had not yet had a Ministerial statement from the present Government. If so, he would ask what was it he held in his hand, occupying several columns of Hansard ? It purported to be a Ministerial statement, and as a Ministerial statement he had accepted it. The amendment put forth by the hon. member for Port Chalmers was to the effect that the Government had not yet had time to,,declare their policy. If the Ministerial statement he (Mr. Fox) had referred to was not an exposition of the policy of the Government, he would like to know what it really was. One reason he would object to the amendment was that it was inconsistent •with fact. It assumed that we had no statement of the policy of the now Ministry, when in point of fact that statement was then embodied in the volumes of Hansard. If the ho’n. member for Fort Chalmers was not satisfied with the policy already given, then by all means let the House have something more. After the hon, member for Dunedin has furnished his Financial Statement, that was to bo much enlighten the House with regard to the embezzlement and defalcation of public moneys, then let the Public Works Statement be brought forward. Then he (Mr. Fox) knew that his constituents would be delighted to hear the deliverance by the Hon. Minister for Native Affairs of a further statement as to the course to be pursued with the native race. It would be interesting indeed for himself (Mr. Fox) and his constituents to leam what means the Hon. the Native Minister proposed to adopt to counteract the evil effects that had arisen from the system of Repudiation tactics that had worked so much harm in Hawke’s Bay, and which was inciting the natives of Wanganui and elsewhere to acts of lawlessness that had so recently come to our knowledge in connection with the latter place. In that district the natives were now engaged in the work of repudiating land purchase transactions that had taken place lit a time when the hon. member for the Thames occupied the position of Governor of this colony. Those natives were now repudiating purchases of land that had been boughtat lOd. an acre, because since they had sold that land had increased in value to the amount of £lO per acre. Again he would say his constituents would he pleased indeed to learn by what means the Hon. the Native Minister was going to counteract the effect of the teaching tiiat had brought about this state

of -things. -. Ha. . (Mr.. Fox) -would also like.to know, as he held his property upon a similar tenure to that of which the title was now being repudiated. No doubt, with_ tha large knowledge ascribed to the Native Minister by his chief, this matter m ;i y , e solved. Then there was the Hon. the Minister of Lands. The House would no doubt like to know something about his Minis ena statement, and obtain some knowledge ot that policy by which the' squatting districts in the South were to be burst up into small holdings. It would be satisfactory to the whole of New Zealand to know how the Minister of Lands was going to work in that direction, or whether he would adopt a conservative policy that would leave the lands still looked up from the poor man. He (Mr. Fox) would say that it the ideas of the hon. member for Port Chalmers were to be carried out the House shoul not review the policy of the Government until that policy was fully put forward. Even then he (Mr. Fox) didnot know whether he should ■vote for such an amendment. As it was, he could not vote for it. The policy of the government was sufficiently developed to warrant him in coining to that conclusion. He felt himself in a position to make up his mind without any further statement from the Ministerial benches. He could not accept the policy of the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government. Referring to the opening part of the Ministerial speech of the hon. 'member for the Thames, he (Mr. Fox) was never more amused than when that hon. gentleman likened himself to a poor innocent little lamb. Of all animals that inn, walk, fly, or crawl, he considered that should be the last one to which the hon. the Premier should liken himself. Had he likened himself to a lion, or some voracious animal coming down on the Ministerial benches, that would have been more feasible. Mr. box then went on to state that some years ago, when the hon. member for the Thames was Governor, when the rebel prisoners escaped from Kawan, a powerful chief of the North named Tinirau called upon the Governor in Auckland. It was a time of great excitement and alarm. Tinirau came when a crisis was impending, to seek advice from the Governor. After waiting about threejor four days an interview was obtained. Before Tinirau returned to his home from Auckland he (Mr. Fox) invited him to dinner. The old chief seemed very pouri, He was sad at the result of his interview with Sir George Grey. He said the Governor had made a fool of him. Tinirau described his interview with General Cameron as straightforward ; but the interview with Sir George Grey Tinirau represented by drawing on the table a crooked line. Sir GEORGE GREY rose and explained that Mr. Fox was then his Native Minister, and that he was bound and fettered by his advice. The Hon, Mr. FOX continued. The hon. member for . the Thames was aware that the relations existing between them at the time were not of a very satisfactory character. Even if he had been the adviser of the Governor at the time, that was not the point. The chief was simply describing his impression of his interview with Sir George Grey. When Tinirau drew on the table those sinuous lines he had no intention of representing a creature ot lamblike tendencies. He (Mr. Fox) would show that this little lamb had been throwing dnst in the eyes of the members of that House. He said that there were two parties in the House—a conservative party and an advance party, and he (Sir George Grey) said that his was the advance party. The advance party was that which introduced into this colony the system of public works and caused the abolition of the provinces, and that was certainly not the party to which the hon. the Premier had belonged. What he (Sir George Grey) wanted was to go back and re-establish provincial institutions in this colony. But he should not do so while there was an “ advance party” . to be found in the House. That hon. member had said much about the Constitution of the colony having been destroyed by the abolition of the provinces. There was no destruction of those institutions. The change in the Constitution that had taken place by the sweeping away of the provinces was an amendment upon the old—a building up with new buttresses. Turning to the question of retrenchment, Mr. Fox went on to state that Sir George Grey addressed himself very fully to the subject in the House the other night. What was this retrenchment going to be ? In the ■ first place it seemed as it great and important changes were about to be introduced. By the abolition of the provinces large retrenchment had been effected. The salaries of Superintendents and other provincial officers, together with the expenditure incidental to the departments that had then to be kept up, have allbeen swept away. It was merely throwing dust in the eyes of hon, members for the hon. member for the Thames to talk of making further redactions in the manner indicated by him. Another thing he was going to do was to make a great saving in the management of the railways. How was this to be done while further railways were in demand and being pushed on ? Supposing £20,000 or £30,000 were saved from this quarter, would that do to carry on our public works with increasing vigor, as promised by the hon. the Premier ? It was all dust, dust, dust. Then other sources of retrenchment were referred to, when it was intimated that a beginning would be made with the salaries of Ministers :themselves. What .saving could be effected there ? There would be about £IOOO. He (Sir George Grey) said nothing in his Ministerial Statement about reducing the amount of the honorarium, because iie had sitting with him on the Treasury benches the hon. gentleman who proposed last year that the honorarium should be increased to £3OO. By going to work properly £2OOO or £3OOO might he saved by retrenchment in that direction. In speaking of reductions in the salaries of Ministers, Sir George Grey had said it was not so much with a view to the amount that would be so saved, but it would allow their hands to he free to reduce the salaries of others. Notwithstanding what the hon. member at the head of the Government had stated, the reductions he promised would be made could not be effected. In referring to the state of the finances of the colony, Mr. Fox stated that Sir George Grey had endeavored to lead the House to believe that he and his colleagues made great discoveries in respect to the finances. There was nothing in what that hon. gentleman had stated as discoveries that had not been clearly set forth by the late Premier in his Financial Statement. This was a further effort on the part of Sir George Grey to throw dust in the eyes of the people. After reviewing several other portions of the speech delivered by Sir George Grey, Mr. Fox went on to say that it was miserable prudery on the part of those hon. gentlemen who refused to take office under Sir George Grey lest it should be said of them that they sought after seats in the Ministry. If was impossible for anyone to say what really was the policy of the present Government. How, indeed, the colleagues of the ;Premier understood what their policy was he (Mr. Fox) could not understand. It was wellknown that for years past Sir George Grey had been denouncing the squatting interest, and creating a feeling of class against class in this colony which had not before existed. Now Sir George Grey bad associated with him as a colleague one of the largest landowners and squatters of the South, a gentleman of whom it was believed that he had gone over to the Government side of the House because the late Government had brought forward a liberal Land Bill, He (Mr Fox) had carefully studied the proceedings of that House during the past few years. He had listened with attention to all that had been said, and he had arrived at the conclusion that history reproduces itself, lie had heard of men who were desirous of climbing to power on the shoulders of the people men who had begun as autocrats, men who had begun in the army. At last, finding themselves in a country where free institutions existed, they sought to gratify their ambition. Firstly, they set class against class, the laborer against the capitalist, the farmer against the land owner. Wherever two classes were separable the same desire was dominant. The young would Be set against the old. That was one part of the policy of such men. The other part of their policy was to be lavish in their

promises. There,was nothing,too great,.nothing,, too good, nothing to be.too much desired, to be promised to those whose support would bo accorded. . Shakspere gives , an admirable picture of such men. He would read them a few lines of the speech delivered by Jack Cade to his followers : Cade.—He brave then; for your captain is brave, and vows reformation. There shall be. in -England, seven halfpenny loaves sold for a penny ; the three hooped pot shall have ten hoops ; and I will make it felony to drink small beer: all the realm shall he in common, and in Cheapsido shall my palfrey go to grass. I thank you, good people; there shall be no money ; all shall eat and drink on my score ; and I will npp .rel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship mo their lord. Jlicfc.—The first thing we do, lot’s kill all the lawyers. , _ .... Code.—Nay, that I mean to do. Is not this a lamentable thing, that of the skin of an innocent lamb should be made parchment ? And here is found the innocent lamb cropping up again. The great battle of provincial institutions had been fought and won. The people of New were not going to return to provincialism in any form. Owing to the late period of the session at which that battle terminated it caused the machinery to be left in a state considerably imperfect.- It seemed to him that the first duty above all others was that whatever Government occupied the Ministerial benches they should' perfect that machinery. There should be no foolish Cry for provincialism, no hankering after the flesh-pots of Egypt. Many districts throughout the country were now satisfied, and when the machinery was complete he had no hesitation in saying it would be one of the best forms of government in any democratic country in the world. ’Another point that he considered ©f . fundamental and vital importance was the prosecution of our public works. The feeling at Home on the stock exchange with respect to the financial capabilities of the colony was of a most satisfactory nature, so long as the money borrowed was wisely expended. The policy of New Zealand for the future should be one of Public Works and Immigration ; to maintain the unity of the colony ; to exercise economy without destroying the efficiency of the public service. We had not to seek out special advantages for any particular class, or to limit the freedom or liberty of capital. Our duty was to make the whole country prosperous. We ■needed no class policy, Mr. BALLANCE said that the last speaker had very fairly stated the policy of the party with which he had associated himself—the repudiation of a liberal land law. Why he (Mr. Ballanoe) and others followed Sir Geargo Grey was that the advocacy of provincial institutions by that gentleman had been an accident. Abolition had been carried, Sir George hal accepted it, and his other political principles were such as liberal men could accept. If the worst that could be said against Sir George Grey was the ridicule cast upon him by Mr. Fox, then Sir George should stand higher in the estimation of the colony than ever. Mr. Fox had accused the Premier of setting class against class. Had not Mr. Fox done the same ? He had endeavored to set the community against publicans as a class to be dreaded, whilst the class to be really dreaded by the colonists was that which included the landshark and the monopolist. The Land Bill of the late Ministry, so puffed by the last speaker with the parrot cry of “ liberal land legislation,” was only a consolidation of existing Acts ; and such liberalism as it possessed was due to the amendments made in it by the Waste Lands Committee. Sir George Grey had been twitted with being a Provincialist. Why, Mr. Fox had been an ardent Provincialist until he was suddenly converted in one night in 1871 by Sir Julius Vogel, Sir George Grey was showing the people of the colony that he was their true friend, and the people of the colony were appreciating the fact. It was unfair to judge the public policy of the Premier, as associated with his colleagues, by his private and speculative opinions.' Should the vote of want of confidence of Major Atkinson be carried, no Government with a majority at its back could be formed, and the House must look a dissolution in the face. The Premier if defeated had a right to demand a dissolution, and it could not be refused. Mr. NAHE said the principal natives of the North Island were favorable to the present Government, and he thought the expressions of the Maori chiefs should be paid attention to. Sir George Grey was invited to meet Tawhiao and his people, but the Opposition was frightened that Sir George Grey would be the first to see the Maori king. Mr. TRAVERS said he did not intend to address the House on the subject bad it not been for some remarks which had fallen from the Premier and the hon. member for Mount Ida. He was made to appear as being inconsistent. When lie joined the Middle Party it was on a distinct understanding on a particular point. The pledge which had been made to him had been absolutely broken, and be could no longer be a member of the party. He felt it his duty to vote against the Government because there were associated with the Premier on the Treasury benches gentlemen who had voted for the separation proposals of the hon. member for. the Thames last session. Had Sir George Grey given a distinct promise that he would not endeavor to tamper with the unity of the colony he might have consented to support hia Ministry. Still he remembered the words of the Premier on another occasion, that he would not cut down the Maori flagstaff, but he would dig round it. That was the diplomatic language then used, and he could not help connecting it with the policy of the Premier in the present. He felt he would work in the direction of endangering the unity of the colony. Men who went into office should have different views. His party wanted the loans of the colony placed on such a basis that the indebtedness of the colony could be ascertained at once. The distinction between provincial and colonial liabilities should disappear for ever. At times it was a moot point what was the indebtedness of the colony. Inthematter ot local government everything was on an unsatisfactory basis. It was for the above reasons he had opposed the late Government ; but he would rather run the risk of placing the members of the late Ministry on the Treasury benches than have a Government in power which was inimical to the unity of the colony. ! Mr. WAKEFIELD said the speech of the hon. member for Wanganui was one tissue of envy, hatred, malice, and ail unoharitablenesa. He had raked up old sores which every good colonist should desire should be wrapt in oblivion. His speech did not contain ono argument against the amendment of tha hon. member for Port Chalmers. He (Mr. Fox) had claimed an acquaintance with native affairs because he was once Native Minister, but he could hardly claim credit for anything he had done while in that position. The hon. member for Wanganui had described his course as a straight one, and that of the hon. member for the Thames as a tortuous one. It would be time enough for him (Mr. Fox) to speak of the tortuous courses of others when he himself ceased to turn corners. It was claimed for the late Ministry that they had effected retrenchments ; but they had done so at the cost of the efficiency of the public service. From all parts of the country there were complaints that everything for the comfort and convenience of the people had been neglected since abolition. Nothing was prognosticated by the provincialists in the struggle for abolition but has come to pass. He was of opinion that it would take £5,000,000 to meet the liabilities of the colony—more than would have been required if the provinces had been let alone. There was no place in New Zealand where the hon. member for the Thames had conferred more substantial benefits than upon Wellington. The speaker then went on to condemn, the management of immigration by the late Government, and accused them of emptying the poor-houses of England and the penitentiaries of Ireland to flood New Zealand ; and were only prevented from continuing this by the energetic protests, of the people of the colony. Tho hon. member for Egmont had said in bringing forward his motion that it was common talk in the lobby that the present Ministry had not the confidence of a majority of the House. If tho hon. member believed everything that was said in the lobbies, he was not only .unfit to be member of a Ministry, but also unfit to be a member of the House. It was

also, said that the. Premier had. failed to induce the best men of his party to accept office. But why was not the hon. member for Timaru a_ member of, the late Ministry? |Was he ashamed to sit on thie Treasury benches with its late occupants, and preferred making a catspaw of the Ministry ? The speaker then attacked the railway administration of the late Government, and pointed out how by their bungling of the tariff rates they had caused a considerable diminution in the railway revenue in Canterbury. A few days ago the Opposition were crestfallen enough, but now that they saw a chance of getting back to office by the apostacy of some half-a dozen members, they had shown thentrue spirit. He did not like to term them traitors. He felt satisfied that the hon. member for Avon had acted conscientiously ; but that remark did not apply to the hon. member for Totara. That gentleman was guilty of flat apostacy. Mr. ROWE said he felt it his duty to say a few words on the motion, as he was a member for the same constituency as the Hon. the Premier ; but he would be compelled to vote against him. There would be no inconsistency in that vote, for they were elected on different principles. The present Ministry occupied the Treasury benches on something like false pretences. It he (Mr. Rowe) and his colleague were agreed upon one question at the time of their election,’it was that the land fund should be colonial property. That was a cardinal point of Sir George Grey’s policy ; but the other evening he said he would scorn to touch even a small portion ot the land fund of Otago and Canterbury. He had also been in favor of separation, but since his accession to office lie had stated that he was not opposed to the unity of the colony. He could not see how the present Ministry could hold together without sacrificing their principles. The Premier really believed that the land fund should be colonial property, while the hon. member for Dunedin was firmly of opinion that every penny of the Otago land fund should belong to the people of Otago. He would not for one moment entertain tho idea of the separation of the two islands, for that would he the greatest calamity which could befal the colony, and particularly the North Island. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Macandrew, the House adjourned at 12,20.