PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 5172, 19 October 1877, Page 4

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thubsday, Octobeb 18. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.tn. PAPERS. The Hon. Colonel “WHITMORE laid upon the table certain papers relating to the inscription of stock. REPORTS. The Hon. Captain BAILLIE brought up the following reports from the Public Petitions Committee :—On, the petitions of Te Hapuku and some 800 others, of 100 residents of Napier and 140 of Hawke’s Bay re the Te Ante estate, of the Roman Catholics of the various districts of the colony. The two first were read. ' NOTICE OF MOTION. The Hon. Captain BAILLIE gave notice that on Wednesday next he would move,— That this Council do agree in the report of the Public Petitions Committee re tbe petition of Te Hapuku and others. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Wanganui Gas Bill was read a third time and passed. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE here rose, and said that before proceeding to the business of the day he would ask leave to make a statement. In the early part of last week, in consequence of Mr. Larnach’s vote of want of confidence being carried, the Ministry had resigned, and his Excellency having sent for Mr. Larnach, that gentleman had formed a Ministry, which included himself as Colonial Secretary. The arrangements were incomplete, the portfolios not having yet been finally distributed, owing to the short time that had elapsed since the formation of the Ministry, The Council would naturally expect him to explain the policy of the Government. He himself had not known the whole of that policy until midday that day, and the Council would therefore excuse him if he did not make such a clear statement as might be desirable, on account of the brief space of time which had elapsed since he had become acquainted with the Ministerial policy. He must say that above all things they intended to consider the financial position, and to see whether their backs were strong enough to bear the financial expenditure put on them by the late Government. Retrenchment was not how a matter of policy so much as an absolute necessity. Of the last imprest supply of £IOO,OOO only some £35,000 remained, and only about £3OOO out of the £IOO,OOO which had been granted for pressing necessities. Under these circumstances they would have to bring down another Imprest Supply Bill to allow the margin which it was only fair and necessary any Government should have to start with. Retrenchment had been a stock promise made by many incoming Governments, but carried out by few ; but should they retain office till next session he was confident they would be able to show material progress in this direction. It was an exceedingly difficult thing to reduce departmental expenditure, but already they had found several instances in which such expenditure might be reduced. To show the country that they purposed to do their work without flinching, the Cabinet intended to begin with themselves. He believed that in Otago and Auckland there still existed several offices which concurrently represented the General and Provincial Governments. These they proposed to amalgamate and thus sweep away extra expense. Again; the railway expenditure could be so altered as to diminish the expenses ef the country. This could he done only by better management and by railway extension, not by cutting off £lO here and £2O there. They did not intend to clip the salaries of departmental officers, which were already too small to support a family in many instances, but they would reduce the number of officers employed, and give plenty of work and an increase of pay to those who were kept on. If they were to sweep away luxuries, and only go in for necessaries, the Government could, by looking at the sign-posts of the past, avoid the pitfalls in which young energies had so often been wrecked, and would be able to bear the load better than their predecessors. As to the native question, the Government had the advantages of possessing Sir G. Grey at their head, and Mr. Sheehan, a gentleman who was most popular with the natives, as Native Minister, and they confidently expected that these two hon. members would, at a very early date, be able to bring all the remaining questions at issue between the two races to a satisfactory conclusion. Their policy toward? the natives would be firm and conciliatory. The policy of the Government was decidedly conservative ; they did not intend to alter the existing state of things as regarded the more important State questions, but to attend chiefly to finance and retrenchment; they had not the slightest wish to change the seat of Government, or to interfere in any way with the unity of the ■ colony; they would uphold the abolition of the provinces. As to the Land Fund question, if they remained in office till next session they would then bring down a measure which should inaugurate a more direct and candid system in reference to it; they were in favor of localizing some of the Land Fund for the better promotion of public works and settlement, but at present it would he premature to go more fully into this matter. It would be the duty of the Government to take stock of the assets and liabilities, and to thoroughly investigate the administration, to enable the Public Works policy to be pushed on without imposing heavy taxation on the people, and to enable the expenditure and revenue to meet without the aid of Treasury bills. Having said this much as to the policy of the Government generally, he desired to be allowed to add a few words of a

■- personal character. When he left the Conn 'Chamber' yesterday afternoon he - consider that he had been the cause of placing the G yerumeut in a false position, and, therefo; when the position of Colonial Secretary w again offered to him, later in the day, he h accepted it, unsolicited as it had been by hi; in order that he might relieve the Governme from the embarrassment, and the Council frc the unpleasant position, in which he thought had helped to place them. He knew that accepted the Colonial Secretaryship uqd great disadvantages, inasmuch as his pred cessor had done the work of two ordinary mi in such a way as to win the respect and estee of the whole Council, and render their debat a credit to them. Moreover, he suffered fro want of tact, and not having been brought i to the work. If by any strong effort of wi coupled with an earnest desire to do his dut and an innate affection for that branch of tl Legislature, he could make himself worthy i be the successor of the Hon. Dr. Pollen, sue effort should be made, and he trusted they woul all assist him so far as lay in their povye One advantage he had, that of commonoin his duties without entertaining any ill-feelin for any member of that Council, and vie versa ; and if at any time any hon. membe thought that another or more able represents tive of the Government was required, or woul be better for, that Council, that hon. membe could not confer a greater favor on him thai by informing him. For his own part, he hai no craving whatever for public office. In con elusion he would just state, which he hac omitted to do previously, that the Governmen intended to drop some of the measures whicl had been introduced this sesion, but to adopl others, such as the Land Bill, the Mining Bill the Slaughterhouse BUI, the Volunteer Bill the Consolidated Stocks Bill, the Charitable Institutions Bill, &c., &c. MOTIONS. The Hon. Captain BAILLIE moved, and it was carried, —That the report of the select committee on the petition of Te Hapuku and others be printed, with the evidence thereon. The Hon. Captain FKASEB mo veil, and it was carried, —That the leave of absence granted to the Hon. Mr. Campbell be extended to Wednesday, 24th inst., on very urgent private business. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Leave of absence was granted to the Hon. Mr. Bonar for a fortnight, on urgent private affairs. BILLS. The following Bills, which had been sent down by message from the House of Representatives, were read a first time, and their second readings made orders of the day for early dates:—The Dunedin Town Hall Site Act. 1877; the Otago Roads Ordinance Amendment Act, 1877; the Raiapoi Cemetery Act, 1877; the Peninsula County Libraries Act, 1877; the Otago Museum Act, 1877 ; the 1 Havelock Commonage Act, 1877; the Mataura Reserve Act, 1877; the Waiwera School Glebe Exchange Act, 187"; the Christchurch District fDrainage Act 1875 Amendment Act, 1877; the Auckland Harbor Act, 1877; and the Roxborough Recreation Reserve Act, 1877. ORDERS OP THE DAT. The Tapanui Agricultural and Pastoral Exhibition Reserve Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be referred to the Waste Lands Committee. The Canterbury Domains Act Amendment Bill passed its second reading, ’when it was ordered to be committed presently for the purpose of inserting certain amendments, which being done, it was understood that the BUI would be discharged from the Order Paper, to be brought np again next session. The Shipping and Seamen’s Bill was further considered in committee, and the Council adjourned at 5 p.m. tUI 7.30 p.m. IMPREST SUPPLY BILL (No. 5). On resuming, at the evening sitting, the Imprest Supply BUI, No. 5, was received by message from the House of Representatives, and passed through aU its stages without opposition. OTHER BILLS. The Council then went into committee on the Lawrence Reserves Bill and various other Bills ; and shortly before 10 o’clock, adjourned tiU the usual hour next day. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, October 18. The Speaker took the chair at the usual hour. PETITIONS, ETC. Several petitions were presented and notices' of motion given. . A number of reports were brought up by the chairmen of the select committees. DISQUALIFICATION OF MR. WHITAKER. Mr. REES brought up the interim report of the committee appointed to inquire into the alleged disqualification of Mr. Whitaker. The finding of the committee was that Mr. Whitaker was not disqualified. Mr. Rees "dissented from the finding of the committee, on various grounds specified. He stated also that Mr. Stout had declined to attend the sittings of the committee. Mr. Rees stated that the evidence adduced before the committee had shown that Mr. Whitaker had entered into a contract with the Government for the purchase of the Piako Swamp ; but that the contract in question was found to he illegal. He contended that whether the contract was legal or not Mr. Whitaker ought to be disqualified. He (Mr. Rees) moved that the report be laid upon the table of the House.

The report was ordered to be printed. IMPREST SUPPLY BILL.

An Imprest Supply Bill for £250,000 was brought down, and the House went into committee on the Cilh

Major ATKINSON said that until the financial proposals of the present Government were explained the Bill was far too great a sum. He moved that the sum be reduced by £150,000. The Hon. Mr. LABNACH said that the Financial Statement would be made On Monday or Tuesday next. The sum now asked for was absolutely required. Mr. KEID said the House was asked to do what the late Government would not have attempted to do under the circumstances. The House was asked to hand over to a Government whose policy had not yet been determined a sufficient sum for the requirements of the colony for a month. It was unreasonable for the Government to make the demand they did until they showed the House what their financial policy was. The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN supposed from the remarks that had fallen from Major Atkinson that that gentleman had assumed the role of leader of the Opposition. He (Mr. Sheehan) was glad that some one had come forward to occupy that position. One could almost laugn he (Mr, Sheehan) said at the opposition now given to the passing of this proposed Bill for £250,000 when it was remembered how the late Ministry had acted. The hon. member said that the reason why the present sum should not.be voted was that the Government had no policy. He would ask what policy had the late Government ? Their only policy was to stick to their seats. Mr. Sheehan went on to state that no Financial Statement the Ministry could bring down would be satisfactory to the Opposition. Sir GEORGE GREY said that at the present moment there was only a sum of £II,OOO in the Treasury. Under ordinary circumstances the Government should have a sum of £IOO,OOO left untouched iu the Treasury. The late Government drew upon that sum to the extend of £97,000, leaving a balance of £3OOO at the disposal of the present Government. It was not to the credit of tho House, that .such a state of things should exist. It was not creditaide that tho Ministry should be placed on the benches in the position of beggars. Such a state of things was unconstitutional. The House should without hesitation place at the disposal of the Government the sum asked for to meet the requirements of the country. It . was against tho interests of the country that such a request should not be acceded to. He would appeal to tho people of New Zealand if such a course was right. (A Voice : “ Why not appeal to the House ?”) Ho would say that it was the duty of tho House to instantly replace the sura of £11)0,000 as a first act, and having done so, place the Government in a position of having sufficient funds to carry on what was necessary, instead of throwing impediments in

the'way. He would say that the affairs of the country were in such a state that it was impossible to put them all at once in a proper position. If hon. gentlemen to grant him a single penny, he would remain on the benches, and the public would support him. He was determined that no Financial State: -ment should be made until the fullest information was placed at the disposal of himself and colleagues, and the people of the colony. As tor the £250,0u0, he despised it. (Hear, hear.) It rested with the House that Ministers should not be placed in office, and in the middle the session, as beggars, and where no financial debate had taken place. Only mere statements had been made, no full discussion having taken place yet. He had therefore to state simply his position, and it was : until he couhl make such a statement, which he would do with the utmost rapidity, he would not move from his place. (Hear, hear.) . , The Hon. Major ATKINSON said, if the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government had been laboring under any unusual excitement, he (Major Atkinson) would make no comment in any way upon what had been just stated to the House. For the hon. gentleman to defy the House, as had been done, was absolutely unconstitutional. But considering the character of the hon. gentleman it could hardly be deemed unconstitutional in him. The hon. gentleman was an autocrat. Of course the House in excusing the hon. gentleman would treat lightly the statement that he (Sir G. Grey) had -made. It would require time to make out the Financial Statement. The hon. gentleman had not quite mastered the lesson of dealing with the finances of the -colony. He has just learned the A. B. 0. He was not quite sure whether he had learned the A or B of it. He (Major Atkinson) would say absolutely that he never attempted to hurry the present Government to bring down their Financial Statement. The hon. gentleman had declared positively that he could change the whole financial policy of the colony in half an hour. Had any ordinary man made that statement, he (Major Atkinson) would have doubted it. Being aware of the capabilities of the hon. gentleman, he wished to know when the financial proposals of the new Government would be laid before the House. As the financial policy of the late Government had been declared a fraud, he would like to know the policy to be introduced by its successors. (The country was equally anxious for information on that point. As the House was aware, the Government could during the recess draw a sum of £IOO,OOO unauthorised expenditure. That was perfectly constitutional and according to the will of the House. He wished the hon. gentleman had been more explicit respecting provincial liabilities ? He (Major Atkinson) would ask if the hon. gentlemen on the Treasury benches could define what was meant by provincial, liabilities. The statement that the provincial liabilities were £300,000 more than the amount shadowed forth by him in his Financial Statement was absolutely inaccurate. He left the provincial liabilities in this position—in which they were all ready to come before the Cabinet—the Cabinet had to decide what was or what was not provincial liability. For instance, in the case of contracts for bridges the amount for the erection of the bridges might be a provincial item, while, if approaches were required to be made, it would I be for the Cabinet to decide whether the latter | expenditure came under the same heading as j the first. Respecting the imprest supply j vote, the Government should have what j was necessary to suit the pnblic requirements of the colony. He had asked the Colo- J nial Treasurer when the Financial Statement j was to be made, and the answer was next I week. He (Major Atkinson) denied having proposed that supplies should be cut off. Major Atkinson concluded by stating that the party to which he belonged would be no factious party, but they would not place power iu the hands of their successors until they had enunciated their policy, which up to the present the new Government had not done. Mr. MONTGOMERY charged the late Government with being ungenerous iu opposing the granting of supplies. The Opposition should not have expected the difficult question relating to the finances of the colony to be solved in a day. Mr. READER WOOD suggested that £150,000 should be granted as a compromise, which would suffice for a week. The Hon. the Premier would then have time afforded him for preparing the proposals to be brought down.. Mr. Reader Wood proceeded to criticise the action of the Opposition. At the presenttime there wasonly £II,OOO in the Treasury, a sum insufficient to carry on for one day, and when a sum of £250,000 was asked for, the Opposition became factious over the request. The question was really not worth fighting about, and were he the Colonial Treasurer he would be perfectly satisfied so long as the Opposition would consent to grant supplies from day to day. The Hon. Mr. FISHER referred to Major Atkinson as being obstructive, Mr. STOUT attacked the financial policy of the late Government, and referred to statements that had appeared in the Home papers magnifying the financial strength of the colony. The Hon. Mr. GISBORNE believed that in regard to the provincial accounts, when the true statement of the provincial appropriation was made, large sums would be found to be illegally and unconstitutionally expended. With regard to the Imprest Supply Bills, no matter how much money was granted, it would have to be accounted for during the same session.

Sir GEORGE GREY, iu corroboration of the remarks made in his speech, referred to papers, and said that there was already an ascertained deficit of £273,000 on provincial liabilities.

Major ATKINSON again declared this to be inaccurate, and referred to the statement in Hansard, He withdrew his amendment, and the Bill passed through all its stages for £150,000. PROVINCIAL BUILDINGS. The Hon. Mr. REYNOLDS asked the Hon. Mr. Sheehan, —Whether the Government intend to dispose of what is known as the Provincial Buildings in this city ; and if so, how, and when ?

The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied that in consequence of what took place during the debate in committee on the Public Reserves Sales Bill, he had caused inquiries to be made as to the position of the buildings and the desirability of their being sold. Those inquiries were not yet complete, but so far the evidence was in favor of sale. He would again inform tho House when the matter was finally determined, and if necessary take power of sale in the Bill already mentioned. miller’s flat settlement (otago).

Mr. J. 0. BROWN asked the Minister of Lands, —What stops the'Government intend to take towards giving effect to the prayer of certain petitioners, that' a block of land be opened on Bun No. 200, Miller’s Flat, provincial district of Otago, for agricultural settlement ; said petition having been reported on and recommended by the warden of the district and the Otago Waste Lands Board, and has for some time been waiting the decision of the late Government.

The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that he had looked into the matter, and found that the warden had reported the land to be very inaccessible, and not at all suitable for small areas. The report suggested increasing the agricultural areas, and it was the intention to carry out the suggestion and have the land surveyed as soon as possible. Mr. STOUT asked for the adjournment till next session of the motion standing in his name, —That the constitution of the present Legislature is unsatisfactory. " This was agreed to. motions. ' Mr. O’RORKE moved, —That in the opinion of this House a Bill framed on the model of the Imperial Law Revision Acts should be introduced next session, under the authority of the Government, for the revision and expurgation of the statute law of the colony, with the view to the publication of a revised edition of the same, in a classified form, and to the exclusion of all Acts which shall be declared to be of a local, personal, or private nature. The motion for an address to be presented to his Excellency the Governor, praying that waste lands of the Crown of the present value

of £40,000 he set opart in suitable blocks for the construction of a branch railway from Edendale to Fortrose, on the eastern bimk of the Matanra : such lands to be those likely to be most enhanced in value by the construction of such railway ; and that he will suivey to be made and plans and specifications to be prepared during the recess, was further considered in committee of the whole House. The motion was agreed to in its amended form as above.

The committee then proceeded to consider of an address to the Governor, praying his Excellency to cause to be placed on the Supplementary Estimates the sum of £SOO for the repayment of costs incurred by Stephen Head and others in defending their goldmining rights in a Court of Law, and in accordance with the report of: the Goldfields Committee upon the petition of the said Stephen Reid and others. —Agreed to. BILLS. The Riverton Grammar School Bill was postponed. The Wanganui Harbor Endowment and Borrowing Bill was read the th’rd time. LOCAL OPTION BILL. The Hon. Mr. FOX asked for the postponement of the further consideration of this Bill until Wednesday next. In the event of Mr. Ballanoe’s motion relative to the compensation clause being carried Mr. Fox said he would proceed no further with the Bill. The House adjourned at 12.35.