PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 5153, 28 September 1877, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, September 27. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. PETITIONS. The Hon. Sir F. D. BELL brought up a petition from 800 settlers in the Provincial District of Otago against the Education Bill. PAPERS AND RETURNS. Several papers and returns were laid upon the table by the Hon. Dr. Pollen. REPORTS. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN brought up the report of the Free Conference on the Auckland District Highways Validation Bill, which was read and adopted. MOTION WITHOUT NOTICE. The Hon. Mr. BUCKLEY obtained permission to move without notice, and it was agreed to, that the time allowed to the Select Committee on the Wakatipu Runs for bringing up their report be extended to Tuesday, October 9. MOTIONS. The Hon. Mr. BONAR moved, —“ That in all future returns showing the quantity of gold exported from New Zealand, the total export from the West Coast ports of Hokitika, Greymonth, and Westport, be shown as the export of the West Coast, ihstead of being subdivided as at present ■ between Nelson and Westland.” —Carried. The Hon. Mr. NURSE moved, —“ That the return showing what sums of money, in the shape of sporting licenses, have been paid or are still due to the different Acclimatisation Societies, be printed.”—Agreed to. The Hon. Mr. MANTELL moved, —“ That the second reading of the Fine Arts Copyright Bill be an order of the day for Tuesday next.” —-Carried. MASTERTON AND GBETTOWN LANDS MANAGEMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This Bill, on the motion of the Hon. J. Johnston, was read a second time, its committal being ordered for Tuesday next. DECEASED WIPE'S SISTER’S MARRIAGE BILL. The adjourned debate upon the question,— That the Bill be now read the second time, and the amendment proposed thereto, to omit the word “now,” with a view to add the words “ this day six months,” was resumed. The following hon. members spoke to the question :—ln favor of the Bill : The Hons. Messrs. Mantell (in reply) and Chamberlin. In favor of the amendment: The Hons. Messrs. Robinson and Bonar, Captain Eraser, Sir E. D. Bell, and Dr. Pollen. On a division, the Hon. Col; Whitmore’s amendment was carried by a majority of 9— Ayes, 17 ; noes, 8 ; — the Bill being thus thrown out. INVERCARGILL GAS LOAN BILL. On consideration of the following amendment proposed by bis Excellency the Governor :—ln clause 3, to insert the, following proviso : —Provided-that debentures or other securities issued under the authority of the said Act shall have a preference and priority over debentures or other securities issued under this Act, and debentures and other securities issued under the said Act shall be a first charge on the special rates, and upon the works erected or purchased by the said Council, in exercise of the powers conferred by the said Act, and the debentures and other securities issued under this Act shall be a second charge on the said rates and works, — the Hon. Dr. Pollen moved, and it was carried, that the Council do concur in the amendment proposed by his Excellency. FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL. On the consideration of amendments of the House of Kepresetatives in this Bill, the Hon, Dr. Pollen moved, and it was carried, that the Council do concur in the amendments pro-’ posed by the House of Representatives. INDUSTRIAL AND PROVIDENT SOCIETIES BILL. On the consideration of amendments of the House of Representatives in this Bill, the Hon. Dr. Pollen moved, and it was carried, that the Council do concur in the amendments proposed by the House of Representatives, . The Council subsequently went into committee on the Seamen’s and Shipping BUI and other Bills, and shortly after 9 p.m. adjourned. HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, September 27. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. MESSAGE FROM THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. A letter was received from the Speaker of the Legislative Council, complaining that Bills were frequently sent there without any member having charge of them, and as a consequence the inconvenience experienced therefrom was considerable. Sir W. Fitzherbert hoped that such a course would not in future be followed, and pointed out that if members did not see that some one should take charge of their Bills when they were sent to the Legislative Council, it was their own fault if they were neglected. canterbury rivers act amendment; bill. Before other business was proceeded with the standing' orders were suspended, in order that the Canterbury Rivers Act Amendment BUI might be read a second time, the matter being one of urgency. The Bill was accordingly read a second time, passed through committee, and reported. THE NO CONFIDENCE MOTION. : On the motion to be moved by Mr. LabNach on going into Committee of Supply being called on, The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the Government understood that this was a distinct want of confidence motion, and should treat it as such. i Mr. SHEEHAN said so far as the Opposition were concerned they were prepared to discuss this questioa by itself, and a specific charge having been made by them they were prepared to fight it out. The Government should not assume, however, that this was the only point of attack open to the Opposition, who had lots of better things in store than the Waha Maori case. Mr. LARNACH then rose and said he was fully alive to the responsibility which was thrust upon him by the Government having accepted bis amendment as a no-confidence motion. However, he was quite prepared to accept that responsibility. As to the reasons which had induced him to take the course he had adopted, he said in the first place the Government had spent a considerable amount of public money in the publication of the Waha Maori newspaper, in defiance of a resolution passed by that House ; and secondly, that paper being a Government publication, and bearing the Royal Arms, the Government had allowed its columns to bo used for the publication of libellous matter. The Waha Maori ■was first published 12 years ago, without the sanction of the House. He believed no fault or complaint had ever been found be-

fore in regard to. mat ter which bad appeared] in the Waka Maori up to the year 1872. In that y ear the hon. member forTimarn had occasion for the first time to find fault with some matter which was then published, and with the leave of the House, he would read a letter written by the hon. gentlemen to the Government then in office, in'reference to the matter complained of by him. (He then read the letter, which was dated the 28th December, 1872, addressed to the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse, which called forth a reply in January of the next year, in which Mr. Waterhouse said he was not aware of the article referred to, that the Native Minister was equally unaware of its publication, and expressed regret that it should have been published without considerable modification, and instructions would be given to the editor to be more careful in future.) How far the promise of the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse had been fulfilled remained to be seen in the course of the discussion which was to follow. (He then read the remarks complained of by the hon. member for Timaru.) This went to show that the Waha Maori in 1872 commenced a system of abusing members of the House, and when the hon. member for Timaru had occasion to bring the matter before the House in the following year, a promise was made that no more slanderous matter should appear in the columns of the paper. Up to’last session the feeling of disgust had become so strong in the public mind that on the motion of the hon. member for Auckland City East the vote tor carrying on the Waha Maori was struck out. Notwithstanding that, however, the publication of the paper was still continued, and it remained to be shown whether the paper was supported at the expense of the public. One thing was very clear—that immediately after last session a writ was issued at the instance of Mr. Henry Russell, in consequence of certain libellous articles respecting him which had appeared in the Waha Maori, and the Government took no less than three mouths to consider what course they should pursue ; at the end of which time they decided to plead justification. Ho was quite alive to the fact that it might be said some members of the Government were not responsible for the publication, not having been on the Ministerial benches at the time of its occurrence; but he contended that there had been a continuous Government for many years, and the hon. gentlemen now in office must be held responsible for the publication of this matter. When the vote was carried last year in reference to this matter it would be in the recollection of the Premier that he got up in his place and said he would accept it as a determination on the part of the House that the publication should not be continued ; and thus the question was settled. Whether or not the paper was carried on at the expense of the Government, the fact was plain that the result of an action taken by Mr. Russell in the Supreme Court was a verdict recorded in favor of the plaintiff, and against the publisher of the Waha Maori. The costs would probably amount to £6OOO, and there could be no doubt that the country would be called upon to pay that. As to the question of responsibility it was impossible to separate the present Ministry from participation in it; and it was a very serious thing to contemplate that, in the face of an express vote of this House, the country should be called upon indirectly, whether it would or no, to incur an outlay of £6OOO for the cost ofthis publication, and it was simple nonsense to say that the money would not have to be found by tbe country, He would not detain the House longer, as there were many other hon. gentlemen to address the House ; and he would reserve any further remarks he had to make until he made .his reply. In the meantime he would simply move the lesolution standing in his name. (Applause from the Opposition benches.) The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER congratulated the hon. gentleman upon the character he now appeared in. The Government had long been anxious to know whether they had a majority in the House, because they felt very properly that if they had not a majority they had no right to sit on these benches. There could be no doubt that the interests of the country would suffer very considerably so long as parties remained as they had been for the last two or three months, and for himself he had no desire to [remain a Minister of the Crown unless the Government was supported by tbe House. There had been numerous reports both in the House and lobbies of late as to a no-confidence motion contemplated to be brought, and he was pleased that the matter had been brought to a plain issue. The Government had been anxious for this They considered it desirable that such a motion should be brought forward, and were surprised that it bad been delayed so long, the Opposition having had the same opportunity a month ago; and if they had taken advantage of it, the affairs of the country would have been in a far greater state of progress than they were at present. In order that there should be no misapprehension as to the precise position in which both parties were placed by action of the present kind in the House, he then read extracts from Todd’s “ Parliamentary Practice,” touching chiefly on the responsibility placed upon the mover of the resolution, in the event especially of its being carried. The motion now before the House was virtually r. no-coufidence motion, and if it were carried the Government would feel it absolutely their duty to resign, the > matter l having now come to a distinct issue. He would now devote himself to the question before the House. But before proceeding to that there was one thing he wished, to say. The hon' gentleman had said that this was a continuous Ministry, and upon that point he (Mr. Whitaker) should at once join issue with him. He had become a member of tbe Government since tbe publication of thin libellous matter, and two other members had joined since he had ; so that there were three out of the seven who had nothing to do with it whatever. Another point about which he wished to remark was the hon. gentleman’s reference to the costs of the action. He did not think that they would amount to more than half of his estimate of £6OOO. Now as to the main question itself. The vote in reference to the Waha Maori was taken on the 12th of October, 1876, in the last session of the Assembly; and an amendment moved bytbehon. member for Auckland City Bast, and carried, was to the effect that the .vote for £4OO for the Waka Maori be omitted, for the purpose of doing away with that publication. He then referred hon. members to an article in the Waha Maori of the 7th of November, in which it was stated that it would cease to appear, tbe reason being that resolution of tbe House to which he had referred. Immediately it was, stopped letters and telegrams were , received from both Europeans and natives complaining of the fact. The first letter was from Hori Turae,' expres-ing regret that the paper had ceased to exist, especially as the Wananya did not properly represent the Maoris, and was bad in principle. The next was a letter from natives in Rotorua, received before the stoppage, and condemning the idea of doing away with the paper, on the ground that the Maoris would have no representative organ, and no means of communication between them and the Government; and immediately after that telegrams were. received, from all parts of the’country in the same strain. And if hon. members considered the matter in the right light, they would [see that there was rnuch sound reason in these complaints, for even at the present time there was no means of communicating with the natives, even with reference to official documents. ’ That was the position in which the Government found themselves at this juncture. ' In order to see what should bo done the Government issued from the Native Office circulars, which were sent to the natives in various parts of the colony. The circulars pointed out that while the Government recognised the importance of having some such means of communicating with the natives, they, nevertheless thought that the natives should contribute more generally than heretofore towards its support. The consequence was that a number of subscriptions were promised, and then it became the duty of tiie Government io consider what should he done. Ho shouldsay, however, that a report had previously been sent to the Government from a number of natives, the names of four native members of tbe House being among tile signatures, praying that the Waha Maori should be revived, and conducted on a better 1

principle than formerly. They considered it extremely dangerous to leave the native race ■entirely uninformed as to the administration of affairs by the Government. Under these circumstances he considered that the Government were ’justified ! in again bringing out the Waha Maori, more especially as while they were considering the matter over several gentlemen came forward and offered : to guarantee the expense of carrying on the publication, one of them (Sir Donald McLean) putting his name down for £SO. The Government, therefore, adopted the course they thought correct under the circumstances, and became responsible for what might appear in the publication. He himself would unquestionably adopt the same course again in a similar state of things. The paper was again started, the first number being published on 19th December, and it came out from time to time, once a fortnight generally, until the 17th of July. Just at that time the hon. .member for Auckland City East put a question to him in the House, which he .answered at the time, in reference to the Waka Maori, and looking at all the circumstances, it appeared to him that there was still a feeling that the paper should not be published any longer by the Government, and on the 17th of July, therefore, it appeared for the last time. Now, as to the cost of the : publication, ha believed the subscriptions were considerably in excess of the expenses, allowing for the amount at which it could be printed by contract,, and allowing for the fact that Mr. Grindell,: the editor, was a paid officer of the Government, and performed the dutiesof editor in conjunction with his official position in the Civil Service. He was not a member of tbe Government at the time it was published. The late Sir Donald McLean was Native Minister at the time, and he had the publication under his control ; but he (Mr. Whitaker) felt assured that Sir Donald McLean never saw the libellous effusions referred to until they were published. If any libellous matter had appeared in the: publication since it was resuscitated the Government were certainly responsible. As to the necessity for some such publication there could not be a shadow of a doubt, and evidences of the fact were not wanting. Tbe first Maori newspaper was published in 1848, when Sir George Grey was Governor of the colony; and he drew attention to this to show that for thirty years a paper had been published as a means of communication between the Government and the Maories. He referred to the Maori Messenger, the last number of which was issued some time in the year 1873 ; but then it was supplanted by the Waha Maori, Sir George Grey being still Governor. ’ To show that such publications were considered necessary an opposition paper entitled Te Hoihoi was started by the Maoris in 1863 ; and there were at one time two Government newspapers running at the same time, the ed tors of which were in the habit of abusing one another roundly. But the whole experience' of the past in this matter had shown that the authorities considered it desirable to have some such means of communicating with the natives, and bore out the justice of the action taken by the present Ministry. , Mr. LUSK had listened with a great deal of. pleasure and not a little amusement to the speech just delivered by his ‘ hon. friend, who had persistently endeavored to shirk the qnession at, issue. The statements made by that hon. gentleman were not, to say the least, accurate, and he would proceed to show that he was warranted in making the assertion. The hon. gentleman began his address by finding fault with the Opposition for not having brought forward this motion a considerable time back ; but he seemed to forget that this very motion was before the House quite a month ago, but the Government and their supporters were averse to it on the ground that the case to which it referred was sub judice. He was gratified to find, however, from the last speaker, that the Government intended for once to go out if the motion, should be carried, as hitherto the .Government had, on one pretext or another, persistently refused to attach the same , importance to motions brought forward in the ; House which were as much entitled to be considered no-confidence motions as this was. Probably tbe Government might think that if they got over this question they would have nothing more to trouble them, and that then it would be plain sailing for them. He should not, however, advise them to lay that flattering unction to their souls, for he was sure that it would be found, when they had disposed of this’ question, be the result what it might, there were other matters quite as important,. and perhaps'more so than this, yet to be discussed. As to the responsibility of the Government for the libellous matter contained in the Waha Maori, he contended that the Government was a continuation of the old one—the fag end of the Government which had existed for the last two or three years, and no one single member could be considered exempt from criticism. The Government did not ask the Assembly to reconsider their decision when they received that petition from the Maoris as to the resuscitation of the Waha Mpori, although they received the petition nearly a month previously. They simply announced that they had decided to discontinue the publication. With 1 regard to the letters received from natives, of which so much had been made by the Attorney-General, it was a curious fact that most of them were signed by natives at the time in Wellington on Native Office business ; the inference to be drawn from which was that they had been made tools of to serve the purposes of the Government ; and the one particularly referred to by Mr. Whita'mr, namely, that of Turin, should receive little consideration, the writer being a man of no rank or • standing. A libel was published in this paper, and the person libelled demanded an apology, and the payment of a certain sum of money by way of damages. Well, what did the Government do then ? They said, We are willing to apologise, but as to paying any money it would be a very hard thing for thesep poor indigent men. Who were they to understand : that remark applied to ? Were the Government these poor indigent men 1 He had never heal'd of anything more contemptible than the action of the. Government jon this head. As to the cost of .the publication’, of . which such a cheerful picture had been drawn, he thought the statements made by the hon. gentleman were' wide of the facts, and he had no doubt that the £4OO was the editor’s salary. Then the. Waha Maori was printed by Government labor, with Government ink, and on Government paper. As to the subscribers spoken of, he believed that they only existed in the imagination of the hon. gentleman.' There was no doubt that: the money of the country had been expended in the publication of this 1 paper ; and, worse, after a gentleman of position in the -country had been maliciously libelled in its columns, the Government incurred heavy expenditure inraking up anything they could, about that gentleman, not to defend themselves, but to blacken his character, to which end all the Government machinery was set in motion, and every dustbin in Napier was diligently searched. The consequence of all this in the end was that the country, in addition to the ordinary expense ' of maintaining the paper, was called upon to pay some £6ooo— the cost would, be quite that—on account of the libellous.matter published in the paper, which was issued under Government sanction and protection. He had not intended to address the House at the length to which his speech had extended, and should not have done so jlmt for the statements made by the hon. the Attorney-General. In conclusion, he might say that ho was' firmly convinced that he should be doing his duty as a representative of the people in expressing his conviction that the Government had Keen to blame on a grave constitutional question in the course they had pursued regarding this Waha Maori newspaper; and that being the case, he was prepared to vote for the amendment. Mr. BUTTON said it would be well if members could give their votes at a distance, without speaking, and so break up the great debate. The Opposition had been hatching for three months plans against tho Government, and it hail resulted simply in a matter of printing. Native affairs no doubt were important, but when a vote of uo confidence in a Ministry was proposed, it w.n necessary that largo questions should he brought under discussion. The member for Dunedin had been selected to forge the thunder-

bolts that were to drive the Ministerial tritons from office. Not long ago that member was a supporter of the Government; in iact. since the time the subject of the present motion was brought before the House. The fact of being offered the leadership of the party may have induced him to bring forward the motion. It might be said that previously the matter was subjudice and was linked with another; but that portion of it which was in the Courts could have been eliminated. The hon. member for Rodney said if the Opposition failed in this they had a perfect storehouse of charges. It was not fair that these charges should be held back, to be brought forward at any time, to place the House in a state of ferment. Let them try the strength of parties at once, and put an end to the waste of time caused by party strife. He was quite satisfied with the assurance of the hon. member for Waikato that Government money had not been spent in the publication of the Waka Maori since the vote of the House. The hon. member for Franklyn had said that the whole thing was a farce. He (Mr. Button) believed that it was such.; It was brought forward merely to test the strength of parties; and let them marshal their forces at once, and if they defeated the Ministry, let them form a Government. If they showed a liberal and enlightened policy they should have his vote. He himself was satisfied with the present Ministry. Mr. J. E. BROWN supported the motion of the hon. member for Dunedin. „ The, House had given an unmistakeable opinion against the Government continuing the publication of a newspaper in their own interest. The Hon. the Premier said he accepted; the motion. , But they had carried on the paper, which' was printed at the Government Printing Office, and under the authority of the Government. He was not present when the vote was given against the publication of the Waka Maori. If he had, he would have voted with the Government, because he deemed the Waka Maori necessary. But when its publication was carried on in direct defiaanoe of the vote of the House, it was a thing which hon. members should protest against. The Government had by a mere trick evaded the resolution of the House. If such a thing were permitted, the House would lose all control over the public purse. Mr. FITZROY' said he believed that the publication of the Waka Maori had not been a charge on the Estimates, and that it had. been continued by private subscriptions. Nothing had .been shown yet during the, debate to impugn the accuracy of the statement of the hon. member for Waikato. Mr. NAHE said he was not present when the vote was given. He was distressed when he found that the item was struck out. The Maoris had only two papers, and if the Waka Maori was abolished there would be only one paper. They had sent in a request to the Government to continue the Waka Maori, and they had made suggestions as to its future management. He believed that 'the Maori tribes were anxious that the Waka Maori should be published, but as it was not conducted as the .Maoris suggested, he would not support it now. Mr. MANDERS said he would support the Ministry ; but he would ask for its reconstruction. He thought they should make themselves in accord with the House. They were quite able to carry on the business of the country;,but as at present constituted they were not in accord with the House. Mr. WAKEFIELD said for the first time during the session the Government had recognised the Opposition as a body. The debate was to have taken place on its merits ; but he, the fifth or sixth speaker in the debate, had only the Attorney-General on the Ministerial benches to listen to him. Why should they ignore the matter ? They ought to have debated it. If they ; had. the debate might have been ended that night; but he would not be surprised if it lasted to, the end of next week. The Attorney-General had said that discussing the subject at length was wasting the time of the country. Almost every paper in the country except the morning paper in Wellington was blaming the Government for delaying the business; of the country. It was. urged that the libel against Mr. Sheehan had been published before the present Ministry was re-constructed, but he (Mr. Wakefield), would show that the | Attor-ney-General was a Minister, some days before the publication 1 of; the libel. ■ That showed that the hon. gentleman was .responsible for one gross libel on the hon.' member for Rodney, who had shown too much generosity in, accepting an. apology.'and foregoing his claim for a large sum; of money. The hon.: member , for Waikato; i had aai;l that; it was all a mistake, about athej Waka Maori being published at the fpublic . expense. It was by some species of thimblerigging that they had shifted; the burden. -The .At-, torney-General had said that the late action by Mr. Russell had not. cost £6OOO, that it had only cost £3000,. ‘But the fact was the Attorney-General had only stated the amount of Captain Russell’s expenses, 1 and he (Mr. Wakefield) believed the on the Government side were of an equal amount. When the vote wairstruck.but-for thp Waka, Maori the hon. the .Premier stated distinctly that he understood it to mean that its publication should cease; i 'But now a Minister had told them that they took it simply to mean that it should not be carried on at the public expense. He read a , letter from a Maori clergyman which was adisgrace to the conductors of the Waka Maori for the idiotic trash Contained about a tanewha killing a girl. That was the way the Maoris were enlightened by the publication. It was supposed to give reports of parliamentary proceedings, but it ignored the Opposition as completely as did the New Zealand Times. It was necessary. Ministers urged, that a truthful and reliable journal should circulate amongst the Maoris; but the Waka Maori was full of lies, and contained libels against the hon. Henry Russell and other gentlemen. The paper was continued at the request of four Maori members. If two or three dirty MaorisThe SPEAKER called Mr. Wakefield to order for applying such an expression to members of the House. ■ • ’ - ! Mr. WAKEFIELD said a wrong interpretation had been placed upon his words, and continued his address. - Mr. JOYCE was' of opinion that the hon. member should be called upon to withdraw the words. ' 1 > ■ Mr. WAKEFIELD would withdraw, the expression. , The .case stood thus;: Certain people had said they wanted a paper, and they would guarantee the expense. ' A : motion would no doubt be tabled, asking the names of those who gave the. guarantee. Four-fifths of the alleged pressure from the natives throughout the Island, urging for the continuance of the publication of the Waka Maori newspaper, was got up by Government officers, and was no excuse whatever for the action the Government had taken. He would have had some 'respect for the Government had they boldly stated that the paper was continued because it, was right- to do so. The alleged guarantee for the working cost having been set up to the House,’it should be stated by whom 1 that guarantee was made. He hoped the Government would plainly answer some of the leading questions raised in this discussion. It might be just as well to state plainly that the paper was kept on at the public expensebecause the Government considered it was a necessary , institution; for the benefit of the native race. Mr. HARPER thought that the only question at issue with respect to the paper was whether or not the vote of last session signified: that it was the desire of the House that the Waka Maori should be no longer printed at the public expense. . He was not present at the debate that took place in the House on that occasion, ’ but he was led to conclude from looking up Hansard that the only question then raised was as to the paper being self-support-ing. He could not 1 see why the motion now brought forward could not have been tabled equally well immediately after the late Supreme Court case. He ■ considered himself that the Ministry Of the day were the beat judges as to whether or not it was for the benefit of the country that this paper should bo carried on, and ho did not think that any censure could fall upon them for what they had done ; nor did he think it right that an attempt should lie made to make tho present Ministry responsible for any libellous matter that may have appeared in tho columns of that paper at

a time when the present Ministry were not in office. They found; that the Government gave good reasons for .having continued the paper, and that they had carried out the wishes of the House. last session in doing so, and have been throughout consulting the best interests of the colony. Mr. THOMSON would state that the At-torney-General, had fairly gone into the subject. His speech was the only one delivered that dealt at all fully with the subject. He went into the matter from a histoi ic point of view as regarded Maori newspapers. He (Mr. Thomson) had heard that “Waka” meant canoe, and that in letters published; in it referring to its discontinuance it was likened to a stranded canoe. He hoped this would soon represent the position of the Government. With regard to the vote taken in the House last session, on the subject of the Waka Maori, he had a distinct recollection that by that vote it was intended that the paper should be no longer published at the public expense. He thought as a matter of principle it was extremely undesirable that any. newspaper except a Government Gazette should be published by the Government. He would admit, however,.'that there were some , grounds for publishing a newspaper iu the Maori language ; but it should contain sound useful information. He had looked into the paper now and then, but did not find it contain the information expected from it. The Hon. the AttorneyGeneral in the course of his speech had referred to the civilising influence of the Press. He (Mr. Thomson) did not think that the Waka Maori would have such an effect upon the Maoris. Mr.. GIBBS, speaking to the motion before the House, proceeded to draw a comparison between the effects of the Waka Maori, and the Wananga newspaper, published in Hawke’s Bay. In the case of the Waka Maori, it was a paper sought after by the Maoris of all parts of the island with avidity. The Wananga, on tiie other hand, was a paper the perusal of a few numbers of which would suffice to show that it was in no way calculated to act beneficially in the interests of the colony or the natives. As to the recent libels published in the Waka Maori, for a long time previous the natives had been complaining of the wrongs therein stated, and, as he understood, those letters appeared without having been carefully read, if indeed they were read at all, before being inserted. He was thoroughly opposed to the motion before the House. Dr. HODGKINSON would support the motion. He considered the Government had violated the principles of constitutional government by acting in defiance of the vote of last session, that the Waka Maori should be discontinued. Why did the Government stay for a while the publication of the Waka if they did not intend to give effect to that vote ? He contended that the Government were guilty of as illegal act in continuing the publication of the paper after what had passed. It bad been said that the expenses entailed, were to be partially defrayed by certain guarantors. ' How was it, then, when Mr. Sheehan made his demand for £IOO the other day, on the ground of libel, that the Government Law Officers pleaded the printer’s inability to pay ? -These guarantors went to form a “bogus”' company to defend the action the Government had taken. Such conduct could not be justified. On this question , he. was quite sure many,hon. members would be led by Ministers into the lobby contrary to their own convictions. But he would remind such members'-that by ' so doing they would be sanctioning the act of the Government in using the Press to injure a private individual. The Hon. Mr. BOWEN was not at all surprised at the debate dragging along in the miserable manner that it had. Never had such a vote of want of confidence been brought forward. 1 For some thirty years the Government of the country found it necessary to publish a newspaper, in the Mauri language as a means of 1 educating the Maori race; . Last session it was moved that a sum of £4OO that had hitherto been voted should be struck off the Estimates, and that the paper should be no longer kept up. An outcry came from all the native tribes of the country, when it was made known, that the Waka: Maori newspaper was to be no longer published. Its publication was in consequence of these demands resumed. Because the Government acceded to the request made by the:native tribes of ' New Zealand, and had furnished them with a.paper that tended to educate them and to make them acquainted with our laws, a vote of want of confidence in the Ministry was .now brought forward. ‘ Mr; MONTGOMERY ; A vote of censure. , t The Hon. Mr. BOWEN : Well, a vote of censure. .' The Government had been quite willing last session to drop the paper altogether, and it was solely at the instigation Of the natives that it had been continued. The only consideration was how it could be carried on without involving the country in expense 1 ., The whole question had long since been worn- threadbare iu discussion, and. he'would,now do no more than ask the House if the question of : publishing the Waka Maori was one upon which the Government should stand or fall—a question upon which to discuss the whole policy of the Government? Mr., TRAVERS supported the motion. It was distinctly stated last session, when the vote of £4OO for carrying on the Waka Maori was struck off the Estimates, that the Government were to have nothing whatever to do with the paper after that; The Government being heedless of that resolution should have stated frankly that the paper was carried on for the .good of the Maoris, and then the offence might have been forgiven. The Government had deliberately disregarded a direct vote of the House. In looking at the Waka Maori, the natives appeared to have received very good advice respecting their lands and the improvement of their social condition. He was sorry that he had not perused its columns to a greater extent, and availed himself of them. With regard to the late libel, the Government were quite right in pleadng justification while they thought they could establish ' such a plea 1 ; but, at the last moment, when it was found that that ,plea was not sustainable, it was the imperative duty of the Government to at once withdraw, and make ample apology to the gentleman who was wronged. Mr. Travers then went on to condemn the mode in which the Government had defended its action in coutinuiug to publish the Waka, Maori. Had he been a Minister at the time the publication commenced, and believed the representations made in its favor; he would not have hesitated to adopt the course followed by the Government. The reason why, however, he would .vote against the Government was that they had not come down and frankly acknowledged what they had done, and asked to have their action endorsed by the House ex post faalo. A couple of papers in this city, journals of which he was totally regardless, had charged him with rashness and want of adhesion' to his party, The fact was that he was thoroughly independent of any party. He considered the present motion a miserable side issue upon which to discuss the policy of the Government. Mi 1 . CURTIS moved the adjournment of the debate. , The House adjourned at 12 o’clock.