PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXI, Issue 4862, 21 October 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Friday, October 20. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at the usual hour.. HARBOR BOARD BILES-. Oamaru.—After some discussion (in which it was stated that this was an exceptional Harbor Board; 1 that a good deal of money had been spent on the harbor already to' very great advantage;.and that it would be a pity to stop the works now)i the second reading was agreed to. _ Moeraki.—This Bill' was moved by the Hon. Mr. Holmes-; and the second reading was agreed to without opposition. • Otago Harbor Board Act Amendment Bill. —The measure did not seek for borrowing powers or endowments. Second reading agreed to. ' Kakauui.—Second reading moved by the Hon. Mr. Holmes. —The Bill was opposed by the Hona Captain Fraser and Mr. Stokes (who moved that it be read a second time that day sis months).. —The amendment was carried, and the Bill thrown out. The Bluff; Harbor Board Bill was read a third time, and-passed. Hokitika. —The Hon. Mr. Bonar pointed out that this was an exceptional case. Since that Council had been in session the port had been practically blockaded. In one' instance, indeed, the inhabitants had been kept short of food l —the supply of flour in Hokitika having gone down to- one ton.—The Bill was read a second time without opposition. The Patea Harbor Board Bill was read a second time, on the motion of the Hon. Mr. Hall. ■ DUNEDIN DBILLSHED RESERVE BILL. The second reading of this measure was moved by the Hon. Mr. Holmes, and warmly opposed by the Hon. Colonel Brett (the hon. and gallant member saying that the days of the volunteers- were numbered, and concluding by moving that the Bill be read a second time that day three months). —The Hon. Captain Fraser supported the -amendment. He advocated . : the ; devotion .of the, land te a school of-mines, —The Hon. Mr.; Bonar supported the Bill, and Colonel Whitmore would do so if the borrowing ppwer ; were struck out and if the reversion, of the land were left to the Crown.—The Hon. .Dr.. Pollen spoker in favor of the • volunteers as a general principle.he thought it undeairable thatyolimbeera should have'any property except their

muskets. He would;nbt oppose the second reading, bnt in committee would look for the excision of the features referred to by Colonel Whitmore. Colonel Brett withdrew his amendment, and the Bill was read a second time. WELLINGTON HARBOR BOARD BILL. The Hon. Mr. HART moved the second reading. He said that the Bill differed in some respects from any of those on similar subjects before the Council. Having stated the objects of the Bill as regards purchasing the reclaimed ' and unreclaimed land, he pointed out the pressing need of wharf extension. The amountto be borrowed, £150,000, was to be devoted to these objects. Ho Would, in committee, insert a clause providing that the foreshore at ; Te Aro should not be reclaimed until a complete system of drainage for that part of Wellington had been, decided, upsn. The 1 measure sought to carry out what had ■ been before agreed to by the Council. ■ ~ , , The Bill having been read a second time, a motion was made to refer it to tho Waste 1 Lands Committee; which was rejected by 24 to 3. r , ;T. LAKE. FORSYTH NATIVE RESERVES BILL. i The Hon, Dr. POLLEN moved' the second reading. Aftei;,some- remarks from the Hon.’ Mr. G. R. Johnson, the Hon. Mr. Ngatata expressed satisfaction with what had fallen from Dr. Pollen, and that gentleman having replied shortly, the motion was agreed to. 'IN COMMITTEE. ’ .'■ V, , On the Otago Harbor Amendment Bill, the Hon. Dr. Pollen moved the excision of clause 23, which was’ agreed' to. ' The Bill passed through without further amendment. The Wellington Harbor Board Bill was con-' sidered in committee. On the question being put'that sub-section 5 of clause IS be excised, the Hon. Mr. Hart said that when he moved the second reading of the Bill he had been instructed, and was under the impression, that there was an understanding with the Government ' that, excepting certain reserves, the reclaimed land and the Te Aro foreshore were to be conveyed to the Harbor Board, subject, to the payment of the cost of reclamation. He would ask the ColouiaT Secretary if there was such an understanding ? The Hon. Dr. POLLEN replied that if there had been such an understanding it must have been made some time ago. The Hon. Mr. HART then proceeded to :c *'■" V endowed

■with the wharf and Queen’s bond, In what position would such a Board be 1 It had been an objection by the late Premier to the granting of borrowins; powers that the surplus revenue from the wharf had been applied to ordinary town improvements, and it was now proposed toremoVe this objection by transferring the property. If the sub-section were Ciccised, he should move that progress.be reported. The Hob. Mr. HALL said that he took it that the ground of the objection to the'subsection was that it dealt with Wins. He, thonght that they ought not' in every case blindly and recklessly to object to borrowing powers for the sake of carrying out a theory, lie Council should inquire into the special circumstances of every case. He would sup-> port the sub-section, as] he thought that this was a case in which the powers should be given. ' ‘ The Hon. : Captain KENNY suggested the postponement of the clause.—The Hon. Mr. Stokes said that they should consider in dealing with the loan, powers as to whether or not the terms between 1 the • Corporation and the Harbor Board were fair and equitable. ’ In his opinion they were, not,, but, were very onesided.—The Hon. Colonel W hitmobe said that the Bill was: premature.' The principle of buying Corporation property subject ,to charges was a sound one. J!! ,Tbe Bill w,as ai desperate effort at any. price : to- enter ’■ into a very bad bargain out of which they were to be pulled by the Government. He,objected altogether to the Board being saddled with the burden of making a profit for the Corporation, who had during, their charge of the 1 wharf grossly neglected their duty. It had not been shown to the Council that this was a case of urgency, and in his opinion the Government ought to express their views on, these Bills. Unless there was some further and more satisfactory explanation, he should vote-for the excision of the loan clauses.—The-Hon.'Hr. Pollen said the broad features of the case Were, Was it desirable that there should be a Harbor Board ? If so, was it desirable-that the harbor property and foreshore should be transferred , to such Board? and was it desirable that borrowing power should, be given to the Board? There ■ was nodoubt as to the desirability: of forming a board, and there was also no doubt as to the desirability of transferring the property, the only question being the terms. The general propositions of the Bill were fair, and ought to receive every consideration from the Council.— I The Hon. Mr. Bonab thought that the wharves and the foreshore ought to be under the control of the Harbor Board. There had been a revenue of £6OOO, which had been misapplied by the- Corporation to other purposes, Which was’a manifest injustice. The only questions'for their consideration were the terms of transfer and the expediency of granting borrowing powers. In his opinion £60,000 was not an unreasonable sum to pay to the Corporation, and the Council ought not to stand in the way. It should be explained what was proposed to be done with the balance of £90,000 which was proposed to be borrowed. Under these circumstances, he should support the Hon. Mr. • Hart.—After some further remarks from the Hon. , Mr. Stokes and the Hon. Mr. Hall, the Hon. Mr. Johnston remarked that it was better to borrow a large sum, such as £150,000, than a small snm, as it was easier to obtain recognition on the Stock Exchange. —The Hon. Mr. Robinson opposed the subsection.

The Hon. Mr. PHARAZYN alluded to the position taken up by the Mayor, and said that it was only within the last day or two that he had heard o£ the reclaimed land being given as an endowment. He complained of provincial property having been handed over to the Corporation for a very small consideration. In his opinion, the Chamber of Commerce had been outwitted. No doubt, if the Government proposed to the Corporation that if they kept the harbor and wharf- accounts separate from the ordinary Corporation accounts, they would endow them with the foreshore, there would be no more heard of the necessity of a Harbor Board for Wellington. In his opinion, the Council should reject the Bill altogether. The Hon. Dr. GRACE said that the land having been crown granted to the Corporation without any declaration of trust, a compromise had been effected; and if they thought it a fair one they ought not to stand in the way, for the Corporation had to account to the ratepayers, who were not always easy to satisfy. It had been asked how the money proposed to be borrowed was to be expended ; £60,000 was to be paid to the Corporation, £19,000 for repairs, and £71,000 for the' cost of reclamation. As to the point raised by the Hon Mr. Pharazyn, he would say that the Corporation were bound by law to keep separate accounts, and had broken the law in not doing sol Harbor Boards were part of the Government scheme of local selfgovernment, as explained by the late Premier in his Wanganui speech. There was no doubt that the Corporation had mismanaged the wharf, and that the creation of a new management was a necessity. He would support the Hon. Mr. Hart.—After some remarks from the Hon. Colonel Kenny and the Hon. Mr. Acland, the sub-section was struck out on a division by 16 to 9. Progress was then reported on the motion of the Hon. Mr. Haet, leave being given to sit again. ' ' ' '

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Friday, October 20. The House met at the usual hour. PETITIONS. Several petitions were presented, and Mr. Kelly, Chairman of the Public Petitions Committee, brought up several reports on petitions referred to that committee. PRESS TEEEORAMS. The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER presented the report of the Press Telegrams Committee, which was read as follows :—“That the evening papers throughout the colony be allowed 500 words at evening rates by day during the next three months, leaving,-it to the discretion of the Government to ; continue that .rate or not,''

as they might think proper.”’ The hon. gentleman explained that unless by an express desire of the House to the contrary, he should issue instructions which would' give effect to tho report of the committee. Sir GEORGE GREY proposed that , the ’privilege proposed to be accorded to newspapers should be extended till the next session, so as to take absolute power out .of the hands of the Government. . ; The Hon. Mr. REYN OLDS had no oh j ection ■ to the amendment proposed bythelip ll -' member for the Thames, but he thought that next year, the question of charges for Press telegrams would have to 1 be reconsidered, and reductions made, as the Government lost twopence on ;every shilling received, for Press telegrams. IHe remarked, that there 'were a* good many •gentlemen interested in .the, Press the committee. ‘ i Mr; JOYCE regretted ithat the’last'speaker-' should have thought it necessary to reflect on the members ;of , the'Press, wjio were op the committee, and in return he charged Mrs, Reynolds with abusing'the 1 privileges of the' position he once held as head pf the Telegraphy department. Mr. REES thought it -wast a veryiserious matter if the Government favored the newspapera 1 which favored' them. He 'held that they should all sympathise with the -Press,* and supported the amendment of the hon. member for the Thames. ! '■ , The Hon. Major. ATKINSON pointed out that the House had distinctly advocated retrenchment.' Now it was clearly proved that there was a loss on these . Press telegrams, and, unless some discretion were allowed the Government, it would be" impossible for them to come down next year and state that they had effected a saving. After further- unimportant discussion, the motion of Sir George Grey was carried., , w . SITTING ON SATURDAY. ! Mr. SEYMOUR moved 1 without notice,— That this House do at its rising adjourn until 2.30 on Saturday, and that it do adjourn not laterthan 11 o'clock. ' The Hon. Major ATKINSON, on-behalf of the Government, had no objection to the motion; but moved that it should be for Government business only that the House should sit. ■ Sir ROBERT DOUGLAS opposed it. He would rather sit another day next week than sit on Saturday. The SPEAKER put the question as to |

wnetner it buwu»« »» »v» mo —* sidering Government business oulyi Mr. MONTGOMERY said if private business was not allowed to be discussed the amendment would simply mean that private Bills Would not be considered at all.. He hoped that tba,House would resist the -motion. Mr. DONALD REID explained that no injustice would be done to private members,, and if they could, gain time by; sitting tomorrow he should support the motion. : Mr. MURRAY said Mr.' Beid was in .the position of having passed all. the Bills he had an interest in. : ' ' ' ■ Mr. ROLLESTON suggested that the Government and private business " should be divided during, the day, by way of compromising the matter. i> •, - ' ■ ' i Mr. BUTTON supported the motion, .and complained,of the tune already wasted, i ' Mr. THOMSON wanted the opinion of the Government as to what time, the session would ■close, by'way of facilitating the departure of hon. members per steamer. I! ■ : " i Mr. SHEEHAN remarked tbat'Mri Buttohj bad taken up the time of the House to a considerable extent on petitions with.. which he was more acquainted ■ than any other: member. He thought at least one day in the week should be allowed, members to work up their .business. It .was not fair to ask the House to sit on Saturday, and moreover it would not facilitate business to any appreciable extent. ;, , Mr, REES, opposed the motion, ■ and explained that Mr. Button had wasted as much if not more time than any .Other member in the House. . After further discussion,t the amendment of the words : “ for Government business only” was put, and a division taken, the result being— Ayes, 33 ; noes,t23. Mr. SHEEHAN then proposed an amend- ■ ment that the evening sitting only be devoted to Government business. The Hon. Major ATKINSON - accepted it. Further discussion ensued. Mr! Sheehan’s amendment was agreed ,to on the voices, and the motion as amended then put and carried by 26 to 21. Sir GEORGE-GREY moved, that during the remainder-of the session the House do meet daily at 4'o’clock and adjourn at 11 o’clock. The SPEAKER ruled that the motion could not be put without notice. ■' Sir GEORGE GREY explained that his motion arose out of the previous' debate. He then gave notice that next day he would move for leave to introduce a Bill to regulate the sittings of the House. ’ ’ The SPEAKER pointed out that that course would be irregular, inasmuch as special directions bed been given by the House as to the character of the business to be transacted on the day following. On representations' from Mr. Sheehan, the Speaker said it was probable that Sir George Grey might be in order, and the latter then gave formal notice. AID TO CONSOLIDATED FUND! , The House then proceeded to order of the day No. I—A committee of, the whole House to consider the following resolution : —That the Colonial Treasurer be authorised to advance the sum of £50,000 out of any-money standing to the credit of the Public works Account or of the Defence Lban Account, in aid of the Consolidated Fund ; such advance to be in addition to the advances authorised to be mode by the 14th section of the Public Revenues Act, 1875, but to be otherwise subject to the provisions of the said section. ■ • The Hon. Major ATKINSON explained the necessity for the vote, and the motion was carried. • , public works bill. The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON moved the second reading of the above Bill, briefly explaining its provisions. One of its chief provisions, he said, was for a compensation court, the present court not being considered a fair one, and part of it was devoted to providing powers for drainage. He believed and hoped that the Bill would be found acceptable, and trusted the House would agree to the second reading. ‘ ' . ' ' Mr. DE LAUTOUR commented on the Bill, Sir GEORGE GREY raised the point that the Bill was a money Bill, and should have been introduced by a message from the Gover- • nor. He referred especially to the 112th, : 114th, 115th, and 220th clauses. ' The SPEAKER said the clauses referred to were not appropriation clauses. ' After a few remarks from Mr. Thomson, Mr. REES again raised the point as to whether the Bill was a money Bill, and quoted May and the Journals of the House of Commons in support of his contention. - Mr. SHEEHAN said many clauses of the Bill agreed to by the Council impugned the right of the House of Representatives alone to deal with the revenues of the colony. He referred to clauses 31 and 151. ; The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER referred to the position the House had placed itself in by the Privileges Act of 1865, by which the other House had been invested with all the privileges, immunities, and powers possessed by the House of Representatives. They must consider this Act if they were going to discuss the question, although he did not think that Act was a proper one. ' ... , Mr. JOYCE said this question had brought the House face to face with the Council on the point of law, for it was assuming privileges it had no right' to. That “ other place” was getting too large, and was arrogating to itself a position which the House of Representatives must assail, or rather resist. ‘This Bill should bo cast aside as waste paper. The Hon. Mr, RICHARDSON said -the Government were responsible for the Bill; and in spirit there had been no contravention of the law. • , : The matter was then adjourned to allow the Speaker to consider the matter. ! , FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS BILL. '"The House went into committee • on this Bill,, and, a long .discussion took place as to, making north oft Auckland. Considerable

discussion also ensued on the proposal contained in clause 9 to give Superintendents salary,,for their term of office. Many members spoke in favor of this, on the ground that Superintendents on.taking office calculated upon remaining in office a certain time to recoup themselves the expense of election.:—Mr. Murray . suggested that , Superintendents of provinces which hadbeen abolished against their will .only should l be compensated. Those who had voted for abolition had no right to expect compensation for the result of ..their own act. .The clause ;was sought to be passed conditionally that ; the sum ; granted should not; exceed, in the iaggregate. one year’s - salary; but on a division'.it :Was ! struck out- by ‘-26'• to' 23.1' ! To the . clause -providing- for subsidies to' local bodies Mr. Sheehan moved an-amend-■ment to the. effect that, from; such ; subsidies -should be- deducted all monies'paid»'to ;Bu°h [local bodies in -the shape: of > rents 'accruing ifrom Cndovrihents. , He 'objebted'fctrongly to [rich corporations gettingas large''subsidies as ;the- poorer" outlying districts.‘ ‘ The ' proposal ■was rejected by 28 to 12. Clause i! S4-was* !reached,iand progress-was'reported. ■ ! j :; i; the point op privilege; 1 < -- > The.SPEAKEB said he had very carefully considered the provisions of the;Public Works •Bili, and was 'of opinion it 1 was inconsistent: with the privileges of the House to allow it to* go further in its presentshape; v It was resolved .the bill should be re-ihtfodueed into committee next day. ' * '* The House adjourned at 3.35 a.m;