PARLIAMENT

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXI, Issue 4854, 12 October 1876, Page 3

PARLIAMENT

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, October 11. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. SECOND READINGS. Crown Redress Act Extension Bill.—The Hon. Mr. Mantell moved the second reading. —The Hon. Dr. Pollen opposed the Bill. —He thought the effect of it would be simply to incur very considerable expense on the part of the natives and the Crown for the purpose of ascertaining facts which were not in dispute.— The Hon. Mr. Hall and Captain Fraser having spoken, Mr. Mantell replied, and the motion was agreed to.—Subsequently notice of motion was given to refer the Bill to a select committee. Rabbit Nuisance Bill.— The Hon. Dr. Menzies moved the second reading in a speech of some length, quoting from the report of the Rabbit Nuisance Committee, and showing the urgency of the matter. —The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse said there was no doubt the rabbits were becoming a great nuisance, but he felt like Lord Palmerston on receipt of some wine. It would be remembered that that noble lord had remarked of some wine which.had been sent to him as a cure for gout, that he preferred the gout. It was so with him (Mr. Waterhouse) now. He preferred. the rabbits to the Bill. Sufficient attention was not given to the natural enemies of, the rabbits. On his own property he had suffered greatly, but he hoped with the aid of cats and hawks, &c., to keep them under.— The Hon. Captain Fraser followed,, saying that the. Bill could be amended in committee. —Tho Hon. Mr. Holmes gave some statistics showing the extraordinary number of the rabbits in his district. He instanced a run whose sheep carrying capacity had been reduced from 45,000 to 29,000 in three years. The land had also greatly deteriorated. Farmers who a little time ago refused to support a Permissive Bill were now in favor of a compulsory one. He held that the Government, having still possession of the larger portion of the land in that part of the country, should contribute to the matter. Onehalf of the rate should ,be paid by the Governvent; at all events, it should be deducted from the assessment. —The Hon. Dr. Pollen sup-, ported the Bill. Whether, .the Crown lands should be called on to contribute was a matter which might be discussed at a - future time. The parties more immediately concerned should make every effort first.—The Hon. Captain Campbell said the leases of the-runs would soon fall in. It was a question with the runholders whether they should not graze what sheep ■they could, and at the end of their tenure hand over the runs to the Crown a huge rabbit warren.—The Hon. Mr. Hall thought the measure a most important one, and should heartily support it.—The Hon. Colonel Whitmore also supported the Bill.—The second reading was agreed to. The second reading of the Counties Bill was moved by the Hon. Dr. Pollen. —The Hon. Colonel Whitmore criticised the Bill. He thought the chairmen of the county councils should not sit in Parliament if they were to be paid as chairmen. He should like to see a half per cent, sinking fund established. He should vote for the second reading.—The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse perceived that some taxing, machinery appeared in the measure. He thought that that was the only endowment the country was likely to receive permanently from the abolition of provincial management. The Main Road Board system of a neighboring colony was a simple one, which he would like to have seen adopted. He advocated voting power being made to some extent on the basis of the responsibility of the voters. He should not oppose the second reading. —The Hon. Mr. Hall, in addressing the Council, said he was willing to accept the measure, although he should have been glad to see a measure under which counties would have been erected at the will of an aggregation of road boards. The great difficulty no doubt was the varying local circumstances of the colony ; and he must admit that he would' have been better pleased had the Southern Provincial Governments been maintained ; in the North of course they could not stand. In committee he should endeavor to amend the clause relating to the election of chairmen of counties by the people, and make such election to be by the councils. —The Hon. Mr. Robinson regretted the passing of the Abolition Act, and considered the Bill, if passed, would inflict upon the country in an intensified form all the evils of provincialism. He took exception to the large borrowing powers given. The Hon. Mr. Acland having made a few remarks, the Hon. Dr. Pollen replied ; aud_ the Bill was read a second time, without a division.

HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, October 11. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. NOTICES AND PETITIONS. The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER gave notice of motion for the appointment of a committee to consider what facilities could he given newspapers for the use of the telegraph, consistent with regard to the interests of the public. Other notices were given, and several petitions were presented. THE HON. MR. POX. On the motion of Mr. Hunter, leave of absence for the remainder of the session was granted to the Hon. Mr. Fox, member for Wanganui. INSPECTOR-GENERAL OP PRISONS. Mr. BURNS asked the Premier, —Whether the Government has sent to England for an Inspector-General of Prisons for the colony ; and whether the House will be afforded an opportunity of discussing the advisability of appointing one of colonial experience to such an office 'I The Hon. Mr. BOWEN replied that instructions had been sent Homo, on the passing of the Act last year, for the appointment of a suitable man, and information on the subject was expected shortly. the hinemoa. In reply to Mr. Murray, The Hon. Mr. McLBAN said he could not furnish a statement of the terms and cost of bringing out the above until the accounts arrived from London. BRUNNER BRIDGE. With regard to the above bridge, in answer to Mr. Murray, i The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON said that the inquiry into the -accident and the cause thereof was quite sufficient, and nothing further could be done. , SIR JULIUS VOGEL. , Mr. MURRAY, asked ,the, Government,— As the Crown Agents declined to have further dealings with Sir Julius yogd, wliat provision they propose to make to secure the interests of the colony 1 > ■, - 1 The Hon. Major ATKINSON replied that the telegram' from the Crown Agents (which

had been laid on the table), was in effect that they' never objected to act with Sir Julius. "Vogel as‘ Grown Agent, but as ordinary, loan agent. , It was a mistake .in the .letter that had conveyed the wrong, impression. He did not apprehend any difficulty in this, respect, but should any difficulty arise, it would be the duty of the Government to take steps ,-to protect the interests of. the colony. BILLS INTROBUOSD. ' The following Bills were introduced, and read a 1 first time :—' Auckland • Public Buildings Bill, Kakanui’ Harbor Board Bill, Bill to Incorporate the Palmerston South Athenaeum. CALIFORNIAN MAIL SERVICE. ’ The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER moved that order, of the day No. 1 be discharged, namely, the consideration of the report of the select committee on the Californian mail service, which being carried, the Hon; Mr. Whitaker further gave notice that he would on Friday next move that the existing mail contract be modified as follows :—That the service be direct from San Francisco to Sydney, via Auckland and Honolulu ; that the coastal service be performed by steamers to he approved of by, the Government, and that the New Zealand share of The subsidy be reduced by at least £7OOO per annum.

SUPPLY. On the motion to go into Committee of Supply, . ' A. Mr. SHARP moved, as an amendment, resolutions to the effect that the House considers the unproductive expenditure should be kept ■within the ordinary income; that the Civil Service required reorganising; that as the House felt some difficulty in dealing with the present Estimates they felt that the reorganisation could be best effected by the Government during the recess; and that the House should pledge itself to support the Government in carrying out the effect of these resolutions. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the resolutions were in accordance with , the expressed opinion of the Government. They recognised the necessity for reduction in the expenditure, but it was not a work of a moment They should not only consider the, reorganisation of the Civil Service during the recess, .but the reduction of the expenditure generally. The Government, had every desire to economise, but the fear was that when the Government were prepared to apply i the pruning knife, they would meet objection from hon. members. With regard to the Civil ; Service question, he said ■ that the service was less expensive than that of other countries, and the money expended on it was not in proportion to the work done. Sir GEORGE GREY'was afraid that tinder these resolutions a political design 1 lay- hidden, because yesterday he gave notice that he would move a similar resolution ; but one which had : more : substance, more nerve in it. He would now move, as an amendment, that the' ; position of the colony imperatively required the utmost economy ini 1 the administration of public business departmental and otherwise,' and, to effect these, large reductions in the Estimates without delay. ' ‘ He denied that the Government were really'in earnest in desiring economy. The Civil Service was an extravagant one, and was not as the Premier had said worked more economically than that of other countries. He alluded to the travelling expenses allowed in certain quarters as an ! unjustifiable waste of public money, and concluded by moving the resolution he had placed before the House. >

Mr. REYNOLDS would support the amendment of Mr. Sharp, because he did not see any chance of effecting reductions in the Estimates in Committee of Supply. He pointed out how difficult it was for the Government to economise when the House was constantly forcing it into unnecessary expenditure.: Heknewhow langely this 1 was the case with the Customs department. He thought the-pruning: knife might be applied in that direction; also in that of the Post-office department,- and the department of the Minister for Justice. For instance, there were far too many Resident Magistrates in native districts. He thought also that the volunteers should be entirely dispensed with.' They were of no use, particularly in the Middle Island, they having nothing to'do but' amuse themselves.' The item for prize firing was unnecessary ■ and extravagant. He could not see that any object was effected by these interprovincial matches. They simply gave'volunteers. an opportunity of travelling about the colony at the Government expense. ’ He' referred' to several other directions" in which reductions should be made. ’

Mr. STAFFORD said, while in the main agreeing with the resolutions of the hon. member for, Nelson, he thought one part of them unnecessary, inasmuch as he understood it to have been .expressed that the Estimates were not to be extensively interfered with. He could not agree with the hon. member for the Thames, because it was useless to , attempt effecting reduction until the House was unanimous on the point.' The colony'had got into a' state of luxurioushess such as was never known elsewhere. For instance, it was thought necessary to have a post office in every valley Where half-a dozen people had collected, and it was well known that whenever .reduction was proposed it was sure to be opposed by some member whose district might probably be affected by such reduction. ' Until the wish was general to economise in relation to public expenditure, there was little use in attempting reduction.

The Hon. Mr. BOWEN said the Government wished to be understood that although they had accepted Mr. Sharp’s motion, they would be happy to receive any 'suggestions that might be offered as to reduction in Committee of Supply. , , Mr. REES said Mr. Sharp’s resolutions were milk and water resolutions, and meant nothing, or they were for the purpose of .stopping discussion on the Estimates. Mr. ROLLESTON did not. think it would be a creditable story to take back'to their constituents that instead of dealing with this matter themselves they had relegated it to the Government to deal with during the' recess. Besides, they were not in a position to' say who would be the Government then. He advocated the consideration of retrenchment at once. He considered that it was the duty of the Government to inform the House who were to be the future administrators, but they could get from them no forecast of the future. Mr. MONTGOMERY supported the view of the case taken by the previous speaker. Mr. HUNTER remarked upon the increase in the Customs revenue of the past few years, thinking it necessary that such should be brought under notice when so much was being saidin disparagement of the financial position of the country. He replied to the remarks of Mr. Rees regarding the property and income tax, saying that if the ciy “ Property, property, property ” was raised, it would deter people with capital from coming to the colony. He feared that at present such an experiment would be dangerous and injurious to New Zealand, which at this particular time ought to encourage the introduction of capital. A property tax was not calculated to effect that. There was no doubt, however, that property would have to bear its share of the taxation.

Mr. WASON regarded the financial position of the country from a more encouraging point of view than some hon. members appeared to. do. There were certain things in connection with the administration of the country that he did not like; but he looked forward to improvement, and was therefore averse to decrying the country’s affairs generally. The idea of imposing a property or income tax, under existing circumstances, was preposterous.

Messrs. De Lagtour and Thomson followed. The latter thought the Government should take back the ; Estimates, go carefully over them, and indicate to the House where they thought reductions copld be made.

Mr, LUSK thought it unfortunate that,the resolutions had been brought down in :the form' they had been, considering they represented a work of supererogation, as the House had determined that there should be retrenchment. He spoke, at ‘great length, on the question |of the extravagance of the Civil Service, and opmpared.it with that eof, Victoria and iSpnth, Wales to show it was the most expensive; service in the,colonies. ; , ■ .| -; Upon Mr. Sharp’s resolutions!; being put,. Sir Geoegb ; (Jkky x moved jaa, amendment to

the effect thatthe House was entitled to know what Ministerial,, changes were' to be made during the recess, .. . , ' 1 The, ’H6h.‘ Major J ATKINSON, accepted the f 1 Mr. f Sharp,' and opposed the amendment of Sir George' Grey. . ' Dr.' HODGKINSON having spoken, Mr. Montgomery’s amendment was declared lost on the'voices. .■ ' Sir George Grey’s amendment was then put, and lost on a division by 34 to 17., . ; Mr. Sharp’s first resolution was carried on the voices.

The second was carried on a division by 30 to i 9. ;

The House then went into Committee of Supply find the Estimates were'proceeded with. Several increases of salary in the Colonial Secretary’s .department were objected to by Mr. Rees, Sir George Grey, and others.— Mr.’ Branson thought the | discussion , very purposeless; .. The only way to get a reduction was to 1 appoint a commission to inquire into the several 'departments, and see what reductions could be made. — -Mr. 'Rollkston considered it beneath the dignity of Parliament to attempt to reduce a salary* here £SO and a salary there £IOO. It Was rubbish to talk about the colony being unable to afford this or that in the way of small salaries ; and if the House wished to save money, it should dispense with the more costly luxuries, such as useless mail services, &c., and. not seek to save a hundred pounds by embarrassing already poorly paid men. It the House had no confidence in the Government as to administrative details, the . sooner they got another Government the better.—Mr. Lusk proposed that the vote for the Colonial, Secretary’s department be reduced by £2OOO.—A division ensued, and the proposition was rejected by 30 to 16.—Mr. Murray^Aynsley .then moved a reduction by £SOO. —The . Government accepted , the proposition. Printing department, £l2,423.—Passed as printed.. , . .;. . ■ Store department, £llsO. Passed as printed. Geological department, £3335.—A discussion took place, on this vote, Mr. Barfp leading the opposition on tho ground that it was , a waste of money, and the department was presided over-by .a gentleman who, as actual results had shown, knew nothing of his business.'— Major Atkinson sai£ if,’ .the "vote were passed this session, the Government ■ would look into the matter before next year.— Mr. Sheehan defended Dr. . Hector, and said he had done good service so far as general results went, although he might like other men have made a mistake.:—Mr. W. Wood took a similar view, but, urged that the department should be, removed to Dunedin.—The item was passed. , , . Electoral department, £4B9s.—Agreed to; .Crown Lands department, £7172.-7-Agreed to.' ' : Inspector Machinery, £2OOO. —Passed. Department of Justice, £1175.; —Passed. ' Crown Law Offices, £2262.—rSir George Grey wished Ito know whether the Bill draughtsmen were legal gentlemen. -L The Premier answered most of .them were.—Mr. Reynolds urged .that the office of ; Parliamentary draughtsman < should be filled up.—The Horn Mr, Bowen said it would ho filled up as soon as the Government could selectq, suitable person.—The vote was agreed to. , ( Supreme Court, 1 £B232.—Agreed, tot Mr. REES here declined to go further, and even in opposition to the wishes of Sir .George Grey continued to move that progress be reported.—Motion negatived. District Court, £s72o.^tAgreed to. • , The House adjourned,at 2.20.