PARLIAMENT

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXI, Issue 4853, 11 October 1876, Page 2

PA RL IAMENT

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, October 10. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at the usual hour. KUMARA water SUPPLY. The Hon. Mr. BONAR asked the Colonial Secretary,—Whether, in view of the rapidly increasing population at Kumara, the fact that the supply of water for that goldfield is very limited in extent, and that the principal source of supply has been reserved by the Government for the Waimea water-race, the Government will take immediate steps for the completion of the head works of such race, so ns to admit of the full quantity of water the race has been constructed for, and is capable of carrying, being brought in for the above purpose ? The population of the Kumara was now some 4000. One great requirement was a supply of water, and the sources were very limited. A principal part of the water supply was the Waimea water-race. While the Government reserved this, so long would the people be prevented from, using the water. Ninety thousand pounds had been expended on that race, which at present only could supply some fifteen to twenty head, while it could carry forty or fifty head. He was aware that it was proposed to hand over this race to the county ; but this would be to dispose of the whole revenue of the county. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN, in reply, said that since this subject had been brought under the notice of the Government by Mr. Bonar, careful consideration had been given it, and it had been determined, in view of the new' circumstances which had arisen, and to improve the water supply for the new goldfield, to ask for authority to complete the head works of the Waimea water-race. That would be done with the understanding that if a large expenditure was involved, as was certain, the water-race would be retained by the Government for the present, and hot handed over to the county.' 1 STRANDING OF MATAU. The Hon. Captain ERASER asked the Colonial. Secretary ; whether ■ there was any truth in the charge which had been made, in a paragraph in the New Zealand Times, of remissness on the part of the Wellington Customs authorities in permitting the s.s. Matau to leave this port in an overcrowded state, and encumbered with deck cargo ? The Hon. Dr. POLLEN said his hon. friend had not said what particular article in the Times to which his question had reference, It was not stated what authority there was for the statement. Dr. Pollen read a letter from the Secretary of .Customs to the. effect that in order to meet the demand for passenger, accommodation occasioned by the rush to the Kumara, the owners of the Matau had cleared out the forehbld, and so made room for twenty additional passengers. But the number was no more than was allowed to be carried between New Zealand and Australia. The Matau’s deck cargo was 20 cases of kerosene and three iron tanks, one of which contained water for the passengers.

NUMBER OF MINISTERS IN THE COUNCIL. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE moved that it was desirable that the Government should be represented by two Responsible Ministers in the Council. . The Hon. .Dr. POLLEN said that no one could be more painfully conscious of dm necessity of increased representation of the Government in that Council than he himself was. It was impossible that anything could be done in the matter this session, but next year he hoped that : the; Government would be represented by two members. , The motion was agreed to. THE PIAKO SWAMP.

. On the order of the day -adjourned debate on the question that the Hon. Mr. Chamberlin have! leave to lay on the* table a plan- ofthe Piako Swamp coming on—the Hon. Mr. Hall read a memorandum showing that the map was altogether incorrect.

Leave to lay the plan on the table was refused on the voices.

■' ' PUBLIC HEALTH BILL. ■ A 1 proviso to clause 14, proposed by his Excellency the Governor, was agreed to. .

NEW ZEALAND FORESTS ACT REPEAL BILL. The Hou. Colonel Whitmore moved ; the second - reading.—The Hon. \Colonel Brett moved, that the Bill be read a second time that day. three months. He warmly defended Captain Campbell-Walker from the attacks of penny-a-liners, who were (said the hon. and gallant member) a disgrace to the whole colony. (Hear, hear.) —The Hon. Captain Fraser also spoke in favor of Captain Campbell-Walker.—The Hon. Dr. Pollen said that one of the principal advantages of the Council was that it prevented hasty legislation. .No more complete instance of such legislation could be shown than this Bill. It was only two years ago that it had been passed after full consideration. Captain Campbell-Walker’s engagement was only for one year. At the end of that year it was possible for either party to determine the engagement. It was proposed that the £IO,OOO which was to have been expended under the Forests Act should revert to the Consolidated Revenue. He would ask that this Council should continue the Act on the Statute Book, and not declare that what had been hitherto done was a mistake. By next year a report would be received from Captain CampbellWalker, and then with the light which that report might thrown on the subject, and with that gentleman’s advice, they could see what should be done.—The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse supported the amendment, not that he admired the Act, but in a future session the matter could be dealt with exhaustively.—The Hon.. Mr. Mantell characterised the Act as sham legislation, and various hon. members having spoken shortly to . the subject, the repeal Bill was thrown out by 22 to 9. in committee. The Napier Hospital Site Bill and the Napier Athenaeum Bill passed through. The postponed clauses of the Municipal Corporations Bill were then considered, and progress reported. ■■ ■ ■' The committee afterwards proceeded with the Public Works Bill, and various amendments were made before the adjournment hour. The Bill was further proceeded with at the evening sitting. HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. • I Tuesday, October 10. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. petitions and notices of motion. Several petitions were presented and notices of motion given. LEAVE OP ABSENCE. Leave of absence for one month, on urgent public business, was granted to Mr. Macandrew, on the motion of Mr. Stout. QUESTIONS. , Sir R. DOUGLAS asked,—(l.) It it was the intention of the Government to extend the telegraph to some point on the Northern Wairoa? (2.) If, when doing so, the Government would cause the line to be taken through Hakaru, Mangaturoto, and Paparoa ? (3.) If, when the above work is carried out, a telegraph station would be erected at Hakaru ? The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER promised that the mattter would be kept in : view, but the cost was too great to consider the matter at present. . Mr. HARPER asked the Minister of Justice, —Whether the Government intended to amend the Civil List Act, 1873, for the purpose of increasing the salaries of the Judges of the Supreme Court ? The Hon. Mr. BOWEN replied that the Government did not at present propose to alter existing arrangements. Mr. BUTTON asked the Government, —If a Bill were introduced this session to enable the Corporation of Hokitika to close part of Hamilton-street, Weld-street, and Staffordstreet, in the town of Hokitika, and to enable the present occupants of the parts proposed to be closed to purchase the land so occupied by them, whether the Government .would support such a Bill? The SPEAKER intimated that the question referred to a private Bill. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said that they would be very glad to assist the hon. member, but he was afraid that it was too late in the session. , Mr. BUTTON asked the Government,—lf it was their intention to proceed immediately with the completion of the Waimea race ? The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON said that when the Public Works Statement < was brought down it was not the intention of the Government to proceed with the matter, but since the Kumara rush they had reconsidered their ■ determination, and in a few days he would make a statemeut ou the matter. • SUPPLY. Certain resolutions from, the Committee of Supply were read a second time, and reported upon. Before going into Committee of Supply, Sir GEORGE GREY moved, according to notice, the appointment of a select committee to consider the cost of Sir Julius Vogel’s two missions to England. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the Government would accept the motion, if Sir Geo. Grey would consent that the matter should be referred to the Finance Committee.

Sir GEORGE; GREY refused to accept the offer.

The Hon. Major ATKINSON then moved that the matter should be referred to the Finance Committee. After some remarks from Dr. Hodgkinson and Mr, Stevens, Mr. W. Wood moved the adjournment of the debate, but was ruled out of order.— Mr. Rees then moved the adjournment of the House, which, after Messrs. Barff, Grey, Curtis, Stout, and Stafford had addressed the House, was lost on the voices. Sir George Grey’s motion that the matter be referred to a select committee was negatived bn a division by 39 to 23. The Hon. Major Atkinson’s motion was carried on a division by 48 to 16.

The Hon.-Major ATKINSON then moved that the House should resolve itself into Committee of Supply. Mr. MONTGOMERY asked whether the debate on the Estimates would be taken in the full House or in committee.

The Hon. Major. ATKINSON said that he ■would prefer taking it in committee. After some remarks from Messrs. Burns and Murray, the motion was agreed to. The question being put that the Speaker should leave the chair, in order that the House should go into Committee of Supply, Mr. BUTTON moved as an amendment that before going into Committee of Supply on Friday the House should consider of an address to his Excellency the Governor that a sum of £398 be placed on .the Estimates, as compensation to Mr. Thos. Joyce. The amendment was lost on the voices. . The Speaker then left the chair, and the House went into Committee of Supply. Mr. MONTGOMERY complained of the delay there had been in bringing down the Estimates, and that their form was such as to be almost unintelligible to hon. members. As to the alleged available balance of £50,000, he thought it did not exist, but instead there was a very heavy deficit. He then made reference to the accounts furnished and the Appropriations Act of last session. From the figures he had read and referred to, he said it would be seen that instead of there being any available assets they were actually £300,000 to the bad. He then referred to Sir James McCulloch’s pamplet, as showing by inference how the fall in the price of wool would affect the expenditure in New Zealand, and thus depreciate the Customs revenue. If the General Government absorbed the land fund of all the provinces, they would still have to issue Treasury bills for £37,000. Without the issue of a large amount of Treasury bills they would not be able to meet current expenditure, and he would ask hon. members was this a happy state of things ? There need be no fear • if they faced their difficulties, but if there ; was not to be a dark future there must be no more loans. Private indebtedness caused a million of money to be sent Home annually, which, with the money going out of the country for interest on public loans, covered all their wool revenue. Was it not time to'set their house in order ? They must never forget that the debt they had to pay was to a foreign creditor. He had said

last year that the time was near, and now he thought that the time had arrived to put a tax on property. Had the Speaker been in the chair, he would have moved an instruction to the committee that the financial necessities of the country required a substantial and immediate reduction in departmental expenditure. Sir GEORGE GREY said that as no Government member replied to Mr. Montgomery, he would move that progress be reported, with leave to sit again.

The Hon. Major ATKINSON replied that Mr. Montgomery had not touched one single fact or figure in his Statement, and he was not going to get -up to answer every member who chose to make a'speech oh . finance:.

Mr. STOUT suggested that Sir George Grey should withdraw his motion, and was speaking at 5.30, when Mr. O’Rorke left the chair. The House resumed at 7.30, and Mr. Stout continued his speech, alluding to the broken pledges of the Government, and-referring particularly to Otago. The Hon. GEORGE McLEAN replied to Mr. Stout, dealing? with the figures alluded to by him, and showing that they - were taken from the provincial estimates. . Mr. REES spoke at somo length, taking quite a jocular view of the financial situation.

The Hon. Mr. BOWEN said that Mr. Montgomery had evidently gone into' the matter very carefully, but thought he took a rather too glooiny . view of the financial prospects of the country. The" hon. member had not distinguished between the issue of Treasury bills , for the purpose of balancing and as a permanent arrangement. As to interest on the loan being paid to a foreign country, there was a most important matter which he had not considered, very much of the money borrowed was expended on reproductive works. The Government were anxious to reduce expenditure, but not so as to create a panic; and the question for’ the House was, was this a judicious policy. After some remarks from Mr. Rees, Mr. MANDERS .said that after the remarks of Mr. - Stout as to Government supporters not understanding the figures rendered, he was not going to sit down in an idiotic silence. He then proceeded to give his reasons for supporting the Government.

Mr. STEVENS raised a similar objection to the confusion of interest accounts to-- that raised by Mr. Montgomery. He then dealt. with the banking account, and alluded to the promise given to the bank last year as tolegislation during the present session. He hoped the present Government would notagain put themselves in such a position. There was no doubt that there was a financial difficulty, and it had arisen owing to the expenditure of public money with too great ' haste. The proposals of the Government as to the land fnnd would not bear criticism,, and the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer had candidly, admitted it. In his opinion, however, no other course was open, and as a first step towards .retrenchment they should all go home as soon, as possible, and leave the Government to make the necessary arrangements. He then dealt" at length with the figures published in the Estimates. If they were to.carry bn the busi-. ness of the country,they must repast the present system. He would give his general support to the Government, and any opposition would only be in a 1 spirit of fair criticism. Mr. LUSK criticised tho Estimates generally, stating that continual recurrence would have to be made to Treasury bills, as the expenditure under the present system would go on in an eVer increasing ratio. The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON contradicted a statement which had been made by Mr. Lusk in his speech, that the proposed extension of railways would not pay, and referred to the junction of the railway systems of Canterbury and Otago. The Napier line, too, would during the ensuing year yield a considerable revenue. Mr. BOLLESTON said he thought therewere railways and railways, and that in the South there was every'reason to be hopefuL People never will be satisfied, and there would, be constant appeals to the House for additional accommodation, which would militate against, the railways paying so well as if they were in. the hands of private companies. He thought;, it would be nght and proper if a statement was made as to who were to be their administrators during the recess. Whilst going in for retrenchment in considering the Estimates they must take care to be just. With such a, large expenditure they should be careful not tocause discontent amongst those through whose hands it passed. Sir GEORGE GREY expressed a wish to move a resolution, and consequently pressed his motion that progress be reported. He and many others thought the Estimates could be reduced by £IOO,OOO. The Hon. Major ATKINSON wished the matter to be decided at once. The hon. gentleman was absolutely ignorant of the finances of the country, and on every case on which he hadr spoken had shown that.he had not the slightest ideas of its wants. The position of the hon. . member and of the .Government shoiild be defined without delay. Mr. REES followed in an eminently characteristic speech. Sir GEORGE GREY said he had been, accused of utter ignorance—(hear, hear, from Major Atkinson)-— and.complained of the rudeness to which he had been subjected. Sir Geoege Geet’s motion that progress be. reported was lost on the voices. The House then went into committee on the--Estimates, taking item Legislative department, ; £31,055. The-proposed addition of £lO9 to. the salary of the Chairman of Committees was struck off. The salary of the Clerk-Assistant, £350, was reduced by £SO. , On the item expenses of members, both Houses, £18,075... Mr. Buens moved it be reduced by £2075. Mr. Burns’ motion was lost on a! division by. 33 to 16. Sir GEORGE GREY moved that the amount be reduced £I2OO, which was, however, rejected on the voices.,

A discussion.. arose as to item Examiner ; of Standing Orders, £SO. The, votes-, bn this question were equal, 24 being ior.the Item and 24 against.—Mr. O’Eobkb gave his vote in favor of the item remaining, aud it' was atv ; oordingly retained.—Mr. Wason moved- the reduction of the library item of £6oo'by £309,, which was lost on the voices.—Mr. W. Wood moved that the item Bellamy’s be omitted. — The Hon. Major Atkinson said that this year it would be necessary to pass the item; but next year the. Government did not’ propose to” re-insert the item—Mr. Wood then withdrew his motion. The amount of £30,805 ,2s. was then passed for the Legislative department. Progress was reported and leave given to sitagain. The House adjourned at 2.30 a.m.