PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXI, Issue 4842, 28 September 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, September 27. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. • DR. POLLEN. The Hon. the SPEAKER stated that hehad received a letter from the Hon. Dr, Pollen, stating that he had not sufficiently recovered to be able to attend the Council. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE did not think it would be advisable to proceed with the business in the absence of the Colonial Secretary. The Hon. Mr. HALL informed the Council that he had agreed to carry on i all business which did not involve large questions of. policy. The Hon. Dr. MENZIES thought it would be better to proceed with the business, as the Hon. Mr. Hall might be presumed to be acquainted with the intentions of the Government. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE considered that the Council should proceed with the business. Mr. Hall was supposed to have a reversionary interest in the Colonial Secretary's seat. The Government were inadequately represented in that Chamber by only one member. The Hon. Mr. HALL said he had no reversionary interest of the kind indicated. On the contrary, he hoped Dr. Pollen would long continue to represent the Government in the Council. . . . MOTIONS. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN moved, —For leaveto introduce a Bill to amend the Native Reserves Act, 1873—Agreed to, and the Bill read a first time. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE moved, — That the name of the Hon. Mr. Wigley be discharged from the Waste Lands Committee, and that the name of the Hon. Mr. Gray beinserted in lieu thereof.—Agreed to. NEW BILLS. Several measures were received from the Lower Chamber, and read a first time. SECOND READINGS. The second reading of the Queenstown Commonage Reserve Bill was mo vedby the Hon. Dr. Menzies.— The Hon. Mr. Holmes having aslted whether the reserves were in perpetuity. Dr. Menzies said that the land had been Crown granted, and consequently, as had been pointed out by the Hon. Mr. Hart, could only be dealt with by an Act of the Legislature.— Motion agreed to, and Bill referred to the Waste Lands Committee.

The.Hon.' Captain FRASER moved thesecond reading of the Maori RepresentationAct Continuance Bill.—The Hon. Mr. Hall, on behalf of the Government, would support the Bill in its present shape.—After some remarks from the Hon. Colonel Whitmoke, the Hon. Wl Tako said there should be one law for both races. How, he asked, could thesmall number of Maori members deal with Maori interests ? There were not enough to do so. Why, Wellington had some ten members. Then there was Rangitikei and Manawatu. It seemed to him that a sufficient number of Maori members was objected to. Hew could four members deal with such weighty affairs ? The Europeans were able to do so, because they were more numerous. The motion was agreed to. Roxburgh Reserve Bill. —Second reading agreed to without discussion. The Hon. Dr. GRACE, in moving the second reading of the Roman Catholic Lands Bill, said it was designed to make the Roman Catholic Bishop a corporation sole for the purposes of certain trusts. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE, in speaking to the second reading, said that suppose a difference of opinion arose amongst Roman Catholics, it would not be competent for a Court to decide who was in the right ; bat the Pope or the Roman Curia-could appoint a Bishop in accordance with his own views. Under such circumstances it wsuid be possible for the Roman Catholic authorities to take possession of all the temporalities, and the Roman Catholics would find themselves entirely stripped. Mr. Waterhouse did not think it desirable to fetter the action of the existing courts ’of law in the interests of an alien. The effect of this BUI would be to vest in the See of Rome rights which were not granted to aliens generally. If the hon. mover would agree to strike out those parts having reference to the See of Rome there would be less objection to the measure. By the Bill in its present shape the Legislature was called upon to register the edicts of a foreign Power. The Hon. Captain-FRASER thought the Bill should be withdrawn altogether. The Hon. Mr. HALL said the policy of the colony had always been to confer no special advantages on any one body, but to give the utmost freedom and every facility for the management of its own affairs and property to each. In pursuance of that policy the Religious and Charitable Purposes Act had been passed. In that Act there was a clause referring to the Catholic Bishop of Auckland, and in the Act passed last session there was a clause passed to include the Bishops of Wellington and Dunedin. He (Mr. Hall) would liked to have heard some more satisfactery reasons why further facilities were required. If it were shown that such were required, no doubt Parliament would give them. While not opposing the second reading, he would support the reference of the Bill to a select committee. The Hon. Mr. STOKES thought that the odimn thcohgicum was likely to be aroused by the expressions made use of in the Bill Legislation had hitherto been without prejudice ; but if these expressions were allowed to remain in the measure a difference would be made. The Hon. Mr. HART remarked that it should be considered how the Bill would act in a court of L law—in an action of ejectment, for instance. If a Bishop who granted a lease were not in communion with the See of Rome the lease would not be valid. A question might arise which would render it necessary to take evidence as to what constituted communion with that See, just as in Ireland' lately a large amount of evidence had to be gone into to decide the right of an incumbent to property after he had been deprived of office for a breach of diciplinc.. Questions (proceeded Mh Hart) affecting the internal doctrines of the Church, should be kept out of the courts of law. ■ Perhaps it was desirable that some legislation should take place ; but it should be very, very carefully framed, at the same time avoiding the use of such phraseology as was employed ih,.the Bill, which would give rise to difficulties in our courts of law. The Hon. -Mr. BONAR agreed with;Mr. Hart, and suggested the ■ withdrawal of the Bill. . _ The Hon. Dr. GRACE replied, urging the second reading, when there was no necessity of hurrying the Bill' through. In reply to Mr. Waterhouse, he stated that he was unable to agree to the words referring.to'the See of

Home and the third clause being struck out. The Bill was brought in at the instance of Bishop Redwood, and he was not aware if that gentleman would be satisfied.' In further remarks Dr. Grace defended the measure. He showed that the object of the Bishop was to be able to grant leases and act as representing the Roman Catholic body,’ and not simply in his own person, so that he might be able to carry out fonuil conscientia; the purposes of trusts confided to him. Dr. Grace explained how at present much land was vested in ministers of religion, who had absolute personal power of disposition over such land. The objections which had been urged as to an alien Bower were made too much of. If the clergy became alienated from the laity it would be in the power of the Legislature to give the laity power to deal with the subject. The practical question was : will you put the laity in a position to benefit by a very large amount of property. A division was taken, when the Bill was lost by 18 to 6. The Moa Hat Schools Bill second reading was agreed to, as also the Canterbury New Brighton Bridge Bill, CANTERBURY SHEEP ORDINANCE BILL. This measure was read a third time. NEW ZEALAND UNIVERSITY BILE. This Bill passed through committee, after a division on the 3rd clause, which was agreed to by 17 to 3. PUBLIC WORKS BILL. Consideration of this Bill in committee was resumed on the 7th clause. Progress was reported, and leave obtained to sit again next (this) day. The Waiuku Native Grants Bill having been read a third time, the Council then (5.30 p.m.) adjourned till the following day. HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, September 27. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p;m. QUESTIONS. In reply to Mr. Douglas, The Hon. Major ATKINSON said it was not the intention of the Government this year to continue the usual provincial grants of meney to agricultural societies and country libraries, though they might on a subsequent occasion ask for a special vote for these purposes. In reply to Mr. Joyce, The Hon; Mr. WHITAKER explained that it was proposed at the end of the session to return to the 200 words system at evening rates for evening papers. He could hold out no prospect at present that the Government could continue the present privilege of 500 words at evening rates to evening papers. It had been found that telegrams for evening papers, being usually sent during the busiest hours in the day, interfered very much with the business, by delaying the of commercial people and of the general public. In reply to Air. O’Rorke, The Mon, G. McLEAN said the Government did not intend to provide a steam launch this year for the Mamikau harbor. Mr. DE LAUTOUK asked i£ the Government would support the Law. Practitioners Act Amendment Bill, if the £IOOO was returned which was paid to Henry Smythies by the last Parliament 1 The Hon. Major ATKINSON said they could, not enter into any arrangement, as it was their intention to oppose the Bill at every stage. NOTICE OF MOTION. Mr. JOYCE gave notice of motion that Press telegraph charges be made uniform. BILLS INTRODUCED. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—A Bill to enable the Trustees of the Wellington Hospital Reserves and the Governors of the Wellington College to exchange certain pieces of land; a Bill to enable the Governors of the Wellington College to raise a further sum of £SOOO, for the purpose of completing the college buildings. OTAGO WASTE LANDS. Mr. DE LAUTOUR moved,—That this House will to-morrow resolve itself into oommitteee of the whole, to consider of an address to his Excellency the Governor, requesting that he will cause provision to be made so that an area of waste lands of the Crown should be set aside in the province of Otago, the pro- j ceeds of which, under the waste land laws in force or to be put in force, should be placed to a special fund as a guarantee for the payment of any moneys hereafter to be raised for the purpose of opening up the' interior of the province of Otago by main central railways; The' Hon. Major ATKINSON pointed out that no provision was made in the motion for insuring bona fide settlement on the land sold; secondly, every other part of the colony would have the same right to ask what he asked for Otago, and the country was not in a position accede to the request, looking at the liabilities already on the land fund. Alter discussion, a division . was taken, resulting in the motion being negatived by 24 to 20. ■> - “THE NEW ZEALAND PILOT.”, ' Mr. HUNTER moved, —That in the opinion of this” House the Government should take steps to issue a new edition of the work entitled “ The New Zealand Pilot.” - The Hon. G. McLEAN said the Government were fully alive to the importance of the subject, and would not lose an opportunity of acquiring the necessary information, so as to publish a fresh edition of the work as soon as possible. RESTRICTION OF IMPORTATION OF CATTLE. Mr, SEYMOUR moved, —That this House will to-morrow resolve itself into a committee of the whole, to consider of leave to introduce a Bill to restrict the importation of cattle and other animals into the colony of New Zealand, in certain cases.—Agreed to. THE LATE CHARLES ELLIOTT. Mr. SHARP moved, —That this House will on next sitting day resolve itself into a committee of the whole, to consider of an address to his Excellency the Governor, praying that a gratuity of six months’ salary be granted to the widow of the late Charles Elliott. The Hon. Major ATKIN SON said that Mr. Elliott had not been a civil servant, and the Government must oppose all such claims that did not come within the scope of the law. Mr. MURRAY suggested that the matter should he referred to a select committee. Mr. DONALD REID opposed the grant. Sir GEORGE GREY supported it. Ultimately a division was taken on the question, which was carried by 40 to 12. MOTION TO EXTEND TELEGRAPH. Mr. THOMSON moved, —That this House will to-morrow resolve itself into a committee of the whole, to consider of an address to his Excellency the Governor, praying that a sum may be placed on the Estimates for the purpose of extending telegraphic communication to Gatlin’s river, via the Nuggets. The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER said the Government did not consider they would be justified in incurring an annual loss to the country of £3OO, especially as the wire would 1 only afford convenience to a small number of people. Some discussion followed, and the motion was ultimately withdrawn. ; Mr. REYNOLDS then gave notice to move lor a return of telegraph receipts and expend!-' ture, giving the receipts of each station. AUCKLAND—MERCER RAILWAY. Mr. HAMLIN moved,—That a select com-' mittee be appointed to inquire and report upon the management, charges for passengers and goods, and hours for running trains along the Auckland, Mercer, and Onehunga railway. Such committee to consist of the Hon. Mr. Richardson, Hon. Mr. Whitaker, Sir G. Grey, Mr. R. Wood, Mr. Sheehan, Mr. Swanson, Mr. Rolleston, Mr. Reid, Mr. Bunny, and the mover ; five to be a quorum. The committee to have power to call for persons and papers. The Government opposed the motion, saying that the present was an inopportune time to take such a course, and it would really be unfair to those most immediately concerned. After considerable discussion, Mr. Hamlin withdrew his motion, the Hon. Major Atkinbon undertaking to appoint a commission of three Auckland residents to inquire into the ■whole matter. PROVINCIAL APPROPRIATION ACT EXTENSION BILL. The Hon. Major ATKINSON briefly moved the second reading of the above Bill.

The object he said was to enable provincial affairs to be wound up by extending the present services to the end of December next. Several hon. members asked what proI visions wore to be • made enabling the outlying districts to carry on after the provincial machinery ceased to. act, and before the new ! county machinery could be fairly brought into operation. Mr. SEYMOUR doubted whether the Act would be sufficient to meet all purposes as soon as'the provinces ceased to exist. Mr. KENNEDY hoped the ontlying districts would not be left ,to the mercy of the present provincial authorities, because he had no faith in them. Mr. REID considered the Bill a wise expedient, and. one that was absolutely necessary. Mr. ROLLESTON was in favor of the Bill, and would do nothing to obstruct its passage through the House. The cry about the outlying districts he said was worn out, for they had, he contended, the advantage of centres of population. Abolition would be an ill day for Westland and the small provinces. Sir GEORGE GREY believed that Provincial Governments would not cease to exist at the end of December, and he should resist by [ every means in his power the abolition of the province of Auckland. The courts of law .would not allow any, such proceeding ; and to decide that point the boh. gentleman would find would take considerable time. He thought there was no doubt that the Act was ultra vires , that it was wrongly obtained. He hardly liked to apply the term which would properly describe the .passing of that Act. What had occurred was this. It was pretended that an appeal should be allowed to constituencies ; but the Government had taken care to pass the Act before there was an opportunity of making such an appeal. If he (Sir George) held the position of Superintendent of Auckland, the Government had no power to oust him from that position, unless. the Provincial Council passed an Act authorising him to resign his office ; and he might say that it was his firm determination to resist the coming into operation of the Abolition Act, and he was confident that he could do that successfully, and that the Abolition Act had no more power than the piece of paper which he held in his hand. Mr. BARPE had hot seen anything brought forward which would justify them in passing the second reading of the Bill ; therefore he should move the adjournment of the debate. Mr. REES supported the Bill.The Hon. Major ATKINSON asked that the amendment might be withdrawn. It was not intended to extend the powers of Superintendents one hour. . He said Sir George Grey would find most probably that the Government were not wanting in power by that Act. Of course, if he wished to fight the Government regarding this question in a constitutional way he could do so-; no one would find fault with him, because he would merely take the privilege of all Englishmen. Certain valid objections had been set forth, and deficiencies had he acknowledged been pointed out, and it. would be his (the speaker’s) duty to supply what was required in committee. He then reminded Sir George Grey that he had been a party ■ to the passing of the Abolition Act, pledging himself to lend his aid in giving it effect. )

Sir GEORGE GREY denied that he had been a party to the passing of the Act; he had, on the contrary, over and over again protested against it. Mr. DE LAUTOUR said the House was asking too much of Provincial Governments ; they were throwing too much responsibility on them, and it must at least be remembered that they had a thankless task. Mr. WAKEFIELD contended that the Bill under discussion would if it became law continue'the Superintendents in office until the 31st December, 1876. The second reading of. the Bill was then carried on the voices, and the House went into committee, when two new clauses were added to the Bill, and the Bill was reported, agreed to, read a third time, and passecL , DISQUALIFICATION BILL (no. 2). . On the motion for going: into committee on this Bill, the Hon. Mr. Whitaker stated that the Law Officers of the Crown were preparing a Bill in accordance with the report of the Disqualification Committee. The order of the day for going into committee was therefore postponed, and made an order of the day for Wednesday next. OTHER BILLS. The Milton Boundaries Extension Bill was read a second time, considered in committee, reported, read a third time, and passed. ' The Dunedin Wharves and Quays Reserves Bill was read a second time, and its committal' ordered for next day. The Provincial Abolition Permissive Bill was made an order of the day for Wednesday next; The Ohinemuri Goldfields Agricultural Leases Validation Bill passed its second reading, and was ordered to be committed on Wednesday next. The committal of the Oamaru Tramways Bill was made an order of the day for Thursday next. : COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATIONS. A committee of the whole House considered an address to his Excellency the Governor, praying that, in consideration of the services of the late Colonel St. John, a gratuity of two years’ salary may be granted to his widow. — The address was agreed to. A committee of the whole House considered an address to his Excellency the Governor, requesting him to recommend to this House the appropriation of a sum of .€llO, to comply with the recommendations contained in the report of the Public Petitions Committee of last session in. the matter of the petition of John Fahey.—The address was agreed to. A committee of the whole House considered an address to his Excellency the Governor, requesting him to recommend to this House an appropriation of £139, to meet the report of the Public Petitions Committee in the case of Mr. Farnall.—The address was agreed to. PRIVATE BILLS. The Renwick, Lease and Conveyance Bill was considered in committee, reported, read a third time, and passed. The consideration of the report of the committee on the Law Practitioners Act Amendment Bill came up, and the report was adopted on a division by 23 to 20. The Bill was then read a third time and passed. TRIENNIAL PARLIAMENTS. Sir George Grey’s Bill on this subject came up for second reading, and was postponed until this day. . . LOCAL BILLS. The Blueskin Recreation Reserve Bill, and the Blueskin Athemeum Reserve Bill, were read a second time, considered in committee, reported, read a third time, and passed. The House adjourned at 12.40 am.