PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXI, Issue 4825, 8 September 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, September 7. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at the usual hour. PERSONAL EXPLANATION. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN said : Before proceeding to the business of the day, I must ask the indulgence of the Council to make a personal explanation. I hold in my hand a copy of the New Zealand Herald for Wednesday, August 30. Dr. Pollen then read from a leading article in that paper as follows: —" Not 'political' but very practical and businesslike, and very much to the Premier's taste, must have been the arrangement which Sir George Grey has openly and emphatically charged Mr. Stafford with having made with Dr.. Pollen, when the latter accompanied the Governor on his visit to the South. By this arrangement Ministers were to receive the support of Mr. Stafford, and he and his party were in return to have a new lease of their enormous sheep rung for twenty-one years. Noone now doubts the existence of this very practical and businesslike arrangement." I have been so long in public life (continued Dr. P,fljlen) that I have become impervious to attacks orthis kind when made upon myself. If it had not been that the name of his Excellency the Governor, her Majesty's representative, has been most unwarrantably dragged into thi3 business, I should not on this occasion have broken the rule of silence which in regard to such attacks I impose upon myself. I feel it my duty to his Excellency not to allow this occasion to pass, in which hia name has been used, without setting myself and him right in the matter. The Council will I hope, allow me to read from the copy of Hansard which I have in my hand an extract from the speech upon which the statement from the New Zealand Herald is founded. The hon. member for the Thames, Sir George Grey, is reported to have said :—" Why, what is the meaning of this' It is this: that this year, out of the laud fund, under some compact with Ministers to which I will allude presently, he will secure for himself or his friends their runs for another twenty-one years under the land policy of the present Ministry." Further on:— " What are the facts, as known to all ? That the Hon. Dr. Pollen, being at the time Premier of the colony, take 3 the Governor down to Christchurch —the Governor's visit being the ostensible object, but political business being at the bottom of it—and he has an interview with the hon. member for Timaru, and between the two some compact is concluded. We have heard of the triumphal proceedings in ancient Rome when the triumviri partitioned out the world between them; but they were great conquerors at the head of great armies, and were able to compel the people to obey them. But here we have two men —one representing no constituency, and the other a mere citizen like myself—agreeing to partition out between their fellows the liberties of New Zealand, and I believe the waßte lands of New Zealand. I believe, if the truth of that treaty or compact could-be got at, it would turn out to be one o£ the most disgraceful things that have ever taken place. I ask hon. gentlemen, would they permit two persons in New Zealand to meet and dispose of the liberties of the people in the colony, and possibly of its public lands. The land fund is really the common property of New Zealand; and I say that to keep the runs for another twenty-one years—and I believe that there is a compact to keep the>

runs for twenty-one years in tho hands of the present holders—is a robbory of every family iu New Zealand. There are runs held by Kinglo uion which should support fifty families; fifty young couples might marry and live in wealth and raise prosperous families on those rims, which aro now occupied by single individuals, ami only carry half tho stock they are capable of bearing. Tho holders of some of those ruus live iu luxury iu England, contributing nothing to tho revenues of the colony; and I say it is a shameful thing if two men or a few men should have entered into a compact of that kind for the benefit of themselves and a few of their friends." Dr. Pollen proceeded: I heard those words uttered, and they appeared to me to be more precise in their untruthfulness than is reported. However, I will accept the report. What I have to say is this : No such interview as therein stated did take place ; no such compact as is stated to have been made was made, or even imagined, by me then or at any other time. For the reasons I have stated, not because thi3 matter concerns myself directly, but because it concerns her Majesty's representative, I have thought it necessary to take the course which I have taken in this matter, and I do so in order that it may be recorded in Hansard, where the calumny was recorded. I have to express my thanks for the courtesy afforded me in making this personal explanation.

THIRD READINGS. The Public Trust Office Bill and the Marriage Act Amendment Bill were read a third time. The third readings of the Land Transfer Act Amendment Bill and the Public Health Bill were postponed. BUILDING SOCIETIES BILL. The report of the managers as to the amendments made by the House of Representatives ■was brought up, adopted, and ordered to be sent to the Lower Chamber. PUBLIC WORKS BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said its provisions were applicable whether the work was carried on by the General Government or by the local bodies. It was a Bill which spoke for itself, and to enable hon. members to appreciate it they would have to look carefully after its details.—The Hon. Mr. Waterhouse criticised the measure shortly. The Government had regarded too closely the interests of the governing bodies. Road boards received more consideration than in any other place in the world.—The Hons. Messrs. G. R. Johnson, Fraser, Menzies, and Grace (who also dwelt on the excessive powers given to road boards) followed.—The Hon. Mr. Buckley suggested that protection should be given against road boards similar to that given as against railways.—The Hon. Dr. Pollen replied. Had he been disposed to talk when introducing the Bill he had a brief before him from which he could .have talked till the day of abolition. The only principle involved in the measure was as to the desirability of the consolidation of the law as to public works. Tor the rest, it could be considered in committee.—The committal of the Bill was made an order for the following day, with the understanding that it should be postponed till Tuesday.

OTHER BILLS. Several minor Bills -were received from the House of Representatives and read a first time. The remaining order of the day was postponed, and the Council then adjourned.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, September 7. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o'clock. PETITIONS AND NOTICES OF MOTION. Several petitions were presented and notices of motion given.

QUESTIONS. Mr. CARRLNGTON asked the Minister of Justice, —That tenders having been sent in for the building of the central prison at Taranaki, what is the amount of the tender which the Government purposed accepting ? The Hon. Mr. BO WEN said the House had determined that the work at the central gaol should not be continued this year. Much as he regretted the decision, he accepted it ; but Government would early next session endeavor to have the work undertaken. Under the_ circumstances, it would be manifestly unfair to disclose the amount of the tender. The Hon. Mr. REYNOLDS asked the Attorney-General,—Whether the Government will, during the reces3, endeavor to procure a suitable cemetery in the neighborhood of Port Chalmers for the interment of the dead, in lieu of the present cemetery, which ha 3 been considerably injured through the railway works cutting off a peition of the present cemetery ? The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER said that the Government during the recess would inquire into the whole matter of cemetery accommodation.

NEW BILLS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—By Mr. Montgomery—A Bill to prevent Members of the Assembly being Appointed to Offices of Emolument under the Government. By Mr. Johnston—A Bill to Facilitate the Vesting and Transfer of Lands belonging to the Roman Catholic Church in New Zealand. RESOLUTIONS. Mr. O'RORKE moved,—That,in the opinion of this House, delay in providing a suitable shipping and railway wharf at Onehunga tends seriously to the inconvenience of the public, to the detriment of trade in the Manukau, and to' the diminution of the profits that should accrue from traffic on the Auckland and Onehunga railway.—The Hon. Mr. Richardson said that Government recognised the necessity for the work, and proposed to ask the House for the necessary funds for carrying it out.— The motion was agreed to.

Captain MORRIS moved,—That, in the opinion of tins House, it is undesirable to offer for sale the Patutahi block, Poverty Bay, until the bridge over the "Waipaoa river has been constructed, and the main drainage of the Patutahi block commenced, and that, on Wednesday next, this House do resolve itself into committee of the whole to consider of an address to the Governor, requesting that his Excellency will cause that provision be made for these works on the Supplementary Estimates.—" Withdrawn after discussion. Captain MORRIS moved, —That this House ■will, on Wednesday next, resolve itself into a committee of the whole to consider of an address to the Governor, requesting his Excellency to cause to be placed on the Supplementary Estimates the sum of £4OO, for the purpose of putting in repair the bridge over the Waioeka river, at Opotiki.—After discussion, the motion was withdrawn, the Government acceding to the request contained in it. Sir. R. DOUGLAS moved,—That a select committee be appointed to consider the allegations made against Mr. Farnall by the late Agent-General, and report thereon. Committee to consist of Dr. Henry, Captain Kenny, Mr. Lusk, Hon. G. McLean, Mr. Seaton, Mr. Stevens, and the mover ; five to be a quorum ; with power to call for persons and papers, and to report within one week.— After explanations from the Hon. Major Atkinson and Mr. Swanson, leave was given to withdraw the motioD. Captain RUSSELL moved,—That it bo an instruction to the Native Fuel Committee to inquire into the prospects of payable quantities of petroleum being found in New Zealand, and to report what steps, if any, they consider should be taken to encourage the search for it. Mr. REES moved, —That allegations having been made, and returns and papers having been laid before this House, showing apparently that members of the Legislature, during the term of the present Parliament, have been or are interested in agreements or transactions ■with the Executive Government, it is expedient that a select committee bo appointed to inquire into and report upon the circumstances tinder which the same have been entered into, and as to whether the provisions of the Disqualification Act have beon thoreby infringed. Such committee to have power to call for persons and papers, and to report within fourteen days. The committee to consist of the Hon. Mr. Stafford, Mr. Rollcston, Mr. Button, Mr. Mr. Lusk, Mr. Moorhouse, Mr.

Stout, Mr. Montgomery, Mr. Macandrew, Mr. Mr. O'PvOrke, Mr. Seymour, Mr. Sharp,and the mover. An amendment by Mr. Stout, that the committee should inquire whether any of the provisions of the Disqualification Act, 1870, or the Attorney-General's Act, had been infringed, was accepted by the mover and the Government; and the motion, as amended, was agreed to. Mr. ANDREW moved,—That the name of Mr. R. G. Wood be expunged from the list of tho Public Petitions Committee.—Carried. Captain MORRIS moved,—That the name of the Hon. Mr. Ormond be added to the select committee to hear the petition of A. F. Hardy and Mary Hardy.—Carried. Mr. NAHE moved,—That the report of tho Native Affairs Committee on the petition of Major Te Wheoro be now taken into consideration. UNOPPOSED ORDERS OP THE DAT.

The Hon. Mr. REYNOLDS moved the second reading of the Otago Harbor Board Bill. Agreed to.—The Queenstown Commonage Reserve Management Bill was read a second time en the motion of Mr. PrKE.—The Waiuku Native Grants Bill and the Dunedin Waterworks Extension Act Amendment Bill were passed without opposition.—The House then went into committee on the Otago Educational Reserves Management Bill, which was partially considered.

DEBTORS AND CREDITORS BILL. The House went into committee on this Bill. Clause 53.—Trustee not liable for costs.— Mr. Stout moved that the clause be struck out, because no person would be able to pursue his just rights for fear of the expense, as he would not be able to get his costs from the trustee oven if the Court declared the trustee to be wrong. It was a kind of " heads I win, tails you lose " arrangement, and would greatly increase "shady" legislation.—Mr. Tonks enquired what position a trustee would be in if this "clause were struck out altogether ? A trustee would not be able to stand up for the rights of the estate because the creditors would not give a bond for costs.—Mr. Stout said that was very well, but a trustee went to law for the benefit of creditors, and if the creditors did not support him that was their fault.—Mr. Button supported the excision of the clause, which was agreed to. Clause 59. —Exempting tools of trade from "property divisible among creditors."—Mr. Stout thought there should be a little more restriction in this clause, as in some trades the tools were perhaps the only valuable articles in a debtor's possession. In some cases, such as that of a plumber or tinsmith, the tools of trade might amount to £2OO or £3oo's worth. —Mr. Murray-Atnsley suggested £2O should be fixed as the limit, and Mr. Button, in supporting the suggestion, pointed out that some such limitation had been provided for in the Act of 1867.—The clause was postponed. Clause 62.—Settlements by debtor.—Considerable discussion took place on this clause, which was postponed, the hon. Mr. Bowen ■undertaking to consider the proposed amendments.

Clause 63—Fraudulent Preference. —This clause was amended so as to declare conveyances, &c, made within three months of the bankruptcy fraudulent preference. Mr. Sharp had supported the original reading of the clause, viz., six months, and called for a division ; but tho numbers were 34 to 11. Clause 81—Distress for Rent.—A long discussion took place on the question as to whether a landlord should be allowed a preferential claim for rent. The clause was passed as printed, twelve months' rent being secured to the landlord. The remaining clauses were passed with slight verbal amendments, and reported. FRAUDULENT DEBTORS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This Bill was considered in committee, reported without amendment, read a third time, and passed. The House adjourned at 1.15 a.m.