PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXI, Issue 4822, 5 September 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Monday, September 4. The Council mtt yesterday evening at halfpast seven o'clock. Before the ordinary business was proceeded with

The Hon. Dr. POLLEN rose to make a statement containing further information as to the constitution of the recently formed Government. He read the Gazette proclaiming, the appointment of the different Ministers. He then proceeded to speak of some of the Ministers. First, as to Sir Donald McLean, -who had for a long time desired to retire from office, but wished firstto see his Native policy completed, which would not perhaps be at a very remote period. It was also Mr. Kichardson's intention to sever his connection with the Government, and in him the Bpeaker was confident the country would lose a valuable and zealous Minister of Public Works. With regard to himself, he had consented against his inclination to hold the office of Colonial Secretary for some time longer, but had decided upon severing his connection with the Civil Service, and had made application to have his resignation dated from 1873, in order that he might thus allay certain unfriendly anxieties which existed in another place as to the incompatibility of the position, that he, being an adviser of the Governor, should have any connection with that service. He then proceeded to speak of the policy which it would be the duty of the present Government to carry <vut, and in different terms reiterated what he stated on last day of sitting, namely, that they svere wedded to abolition of the provinces, and would carry out the Public Works policy, but were not otherwise bound to any line of action taken by the former Government. As to the measures to be brought forward they would be few. The provisions for carrying out the local government of the country would be carried, probably with certain modifications, by the consent of the House. The Financial Arrangements Bill, which was before the Assembly in another place, was to be withdrawn, and a new one substituted for it, iu which arrangements would be made calculated more completely to give the Government power to meet unforeseen contingencies which might follow the change in the Constitution to take effect after the close of the present session. An Educational Bill was also before th« Assembly. The Government recognised thedesire of tbe colony and the country that the Public Works scheme should be carried out in its integrity; but while keeping steadily iu view the end originally sought to be attained, no new works, even amongst those authorised by the Government, would be undertaken until the Government saw that the means for carrying them out were clearly available, and that no financial difficulties could possibly ensue from much undertakings. He then went on to inform the Council of other measures before the Council, and said it was not the intention of the Government to proceed with the Native Lands Sales Bill, as it would, be necessary to vide a remedy for some technical defects found to exist in the Act as it stood at present; and it was proposed to abolish the Native Lands Purchase department, and conduct the business of that department in the office of the Secretary for Crown Lands. It was proposed to offer the appointment of Agent-General to Sir Julius Vogel, and he proceeded to enumerate the different important subjects connected with the administration of that department, amongst them the reduction of expenses. As before stated, the Government measures were few in number, and with the assistance of members of the Legislature it was possible that th& business of the session would not ocdupy more than four or five weeks longer. Mr. WATERHOUSE thought that on an occasion such as the present members should be given an opportunity of expressing their views, and to put himself in order in speaking moved that the House at its rising adMourn until 3 o'clock on the following day. He then proceeded to refer to ■ the statement made by the Hon. Colonial Secretary, and in the first place bore testimony to the ability with which that gentleman had held the office he now filled. But he wished particularly to refer to certain peculiarities in the constitution of the Government with regard to the formation of which Dr. Pollen had just made a formal announcement. He referred the Council to the Disqualification Act of 1873, by way of showing that the Ministry could only be composed of nine members, two of whom should be Maoris or half-castes ; but the present Ministry consisted of eight European gentlemen, and clearly therefore some one of them must hold his seat illegally. Another peculiarity was that Mr. Whitaker. should take precedence of the Premier, the former's name appearing first on the schedule. Then it ww contrary to precedent th*t he should be permitted to reside ia Auckland, and contrary tolaw that a member of the Ministry Blioutd be Attorney-General. While taking these objections to peculiarities in the constitution of the present Ministry, hp considered it a great improvement on the former Ministry, comprising, members who would act with prudence and forethought, and he should be prepared to give them his hearty support, so far as he could do so conscientiously. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE,-in seconding the motion of the last speaker, congratulated the country on the prospect of getting rid of the services of Sir Donald McLean, whohad utterly mismanaged the .department over which he bad had control for so long a period. He condemned the flour and sugar policy, and Baid that the Native Minister had thrown obstructions ia the way of those who by the force of arms were in a fair way towards the subjection of tho natives. The hon. gentleman then said ht

*houHliketo know what/steps the Government proposed to take for maintaining the peace of the colony, and concluded by spei.kin.; in flattering terms of the able manner iu which the Hon. Dr. Pollen had filled the office of Colonial Secretary. . The Hon. Mr. HALL, on receiving permission, rose to make an explanation, which he deemed necessary because members of the Government were placed in an unfavorable position by the remarks made by the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse. He proceeded to point out that Mr. Waterhouse was in . error when he made the statement that eight members could not be on the Ministerial benches. That gen leman s argument was that exemption from the provisions of the Disqualification Act could only be granted to seven persons, whereas, the wording of the Act was to the effec that there could only be seven salaried Ministers, and that would not prevent there K.W seventy Ministers provided they refed no s'alary. .Therefore Mr. , Waterhouse was obviously incorrect in saying that one of the Ministers had been illegally appointed." As to Mr. Whitaker's taking precedence of the Premier, the best advice had been taken on that matter, and the hon. gentleman would find that the proceeding was in no way irregular. He was also in error with regard to the office of Attorney-General, which was essentially a political office. The change in the Ministry was an excellent reason why members Bhould consider the circumstances in which they were placed, and do their utmost to aid them in the important work they had.before them. The Hon. Captain FRASER gave notice that he would move, on next day of sitting, that the constitution of the new Government be considered at the next meeting of the Council. THE FUBLIC WOBKS BILL. On the motion of the Hon. Dr. POLLEN, the Public Workß Bill, 1876, was introduced, read' a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Thursday next. The Council then adjourned.

HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Monday, September i. The House met at 7.30. The Speaker took the chair. PETITIONS, NOTICES, &C. SeTeral petitions were presented and notices given, and other preliminary business transcted. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. The Hon. Major ATKINSON rose and said :—Sir, —Before the House proceeds to the orders of the day, I desire, in accordance wHh the pledge I gave the House on Thursday evening last, to inform it of the formation of a new Ministry. Sir GEORGE GREY : Sir, I rise to a point of order—a very important question. I would submit that the law Bays the AttorneyGeneral of New Zealand shall not be a member of this House. Cries of "No, no," during which the hon. member resumed his seat. The Hon. Major ATKINSON continued: I will state to the House what has been done in reference to the new Ministry, and I propose then, as is customary, to state clearly and distinctly the main points of the policy of the Government of which I have the honor of being head. To prevent further misapprehension, I desire here to say that I somewhat misled the House on Thursday evening, when I informed it that I should on Friday submit the names of the new Government for his Excellency's approval, for I had as a matter of fact submitted those names to his Excellency on Thursday afternoon; but I was under the impression that it would be necessary to submit them in a more formal manner before the Ministry was sworn in. I may add that I have his Excellency's permission to say he considered they were officially presented to him on Thursday afternoon, and were approved by him, so that no discourtesy was shown him, as was suggested by an hon. member the other evening. To proceed. The names of the gentlemen who have joined me in forming a Government have now had their various offices assigned to them, and the Ministry is as follows—myself, Premier and Colonial Treasurer; the Hon. Dr. Pollen, Colonial Secretary; the Hon. Frederick Whitaker, Attorney-General ; the Hon. Sir Donald McLean, Native Minister ; the Hon. Edward Richardson, Minister of Public Works; the Hon. Mr. Bowen, Minister of Justice; the Hon. Mr. Ormond, Secretary for Crown Lauds and - Immigration ; the Hon." George McLean, Commissioner of Customs, Postmas-ter-General, and Commissioner of Telegraphs; and the Hon. John Hall a Beat in the Cabinet without office. It may be opportune to mj.ke some remarks in reference to the position of Beveral of the gentlemen constituting the Ministry. The House, as I understand, has for some time past expressed itself as desirous that there should be a political Attorney-General, and in accordance with what I believe are the views of the House upon thiß subject, I have succeeded in inducing my hon. friend to accept that office, and I think his acceptance of the office will give very general satisfaction to the House and the country. For the conduct of the business of the Legislative Council it was necessary that another member of the Executive should be appointed, and the Hon. Mr. Hall has consented to assist the Hon. Dr. Pollen in that place, without reference to pay. My hon. friend, Mr. George McLean, has also consented to hold office without pay; but it will be necessary before the end of the session that we should ask the House to increase to some .extent the number of Ministers entitled to receive salaries. I do not propose to go into that question on the present occasion, but I Bhall on a subsequent day ask the House to consider the question, and. accede to the proposition, if the business of the country is to be properly administered. With regard to Sir Donald McLean, he haa for some time past desired to be relieved of the duties which he has performed with so much success in the past, and that he has been successful is,evidenced—if evidence of it be required—by the peace we have enjoyed for bo many years. However, he believes that the time has now arrived when the government of the natives, which has hitherto been of a personal nature, may to alargeextent be assimilated with the ordinary government of the country. I say to a large extent, for hon. members must bear in mind this fact, that over a large part of thi3 island the Queen's writ does not run. My hon. friend has consented to remain in office at any rate for some monthß longer, in order to assist in carrying out this assimilation of the government of the natives; and if he succeeds in his object he will add very mnch to the already high reputation he possesses, and add to the debt this colony owes him. With regard to Dr. Pollen, I may say he also desires to retire from the Government, but at the instigation of my hon. friend the Attorney-General and myself, he has very reluctantly consented to remain in office for some time longer. There has been much misapprehension as to the position of Dr. Pollen in the Civil Service, and it is perhaps desirable that I should inform the House of the exact position he occupies. It is thi3—That upon joining the Ministry in November, 1873, he had been in the Civil Service seventeen years, and was entitled to a certain retiring allowance, which retiring allowance he has not up to the present time taken, but has now made application for, and will in due course receive. The time he has served as a Minister, I may mention, is not included when hi* length of service is computed, although he has during that time performed the duties of Government Agent at Auckland without pay. The Minister of Public Works also wishes to be relieved of the onerous duties of his office, and has announced his intention of leaving the Government at as early a date as we can spare him. I must confess we are exceedingly loath to lose his services, and I believe all will receive the intelligence regretfully, for no one could perform the duties of Minister of Public Works mere faithfully, or with more ability. However, he jim announced his intention of resigning as soon aftei the sessi'-n as he can. There is one other subject I wish to refer to before I pass on to the main object of my addressing the House this evening. It would ill become me, as his colleague of two years' standing, to pass over in Bilence the retirement

from these benches of my hon. friead, Sir Julius Vogel, and it would as ill become me in his presence to enter upon a eulogy of his character or biß services ; but I may say that iu losing Sir Julius Vogel New Zealand will suffer a very great loss—(hear, hear)—for when the future history of this colony is written, his name will stand among, if not at the head of the statesmen of the colony, as a man foremost amongst others, "whose heart alike conceived , and dared." But if we are to lose his services here as a Minister, I hope we may retain his services in another capacity in the Mother Country. (Hear, hear.) The Hous« has ex-. pressed a decided wish that it should be taken into confidence before any appointment is made to the Agent-Geueralship, and therefore we have considered it our duty to inform the House that we propose immediately to offer for the acceptance of Sir Julius Vogel the office of Agent-General. We have reason to believe that should he accept the office he will not be prepared to hold it more than for a short time, and this meets entirely with our approval, because we think the whole question of the Agency-General should be considered by the House. • I now come to the main point—our policy. The fundamental principle of the Government, in fact the ba-is upon which the Government is formed, is the abolition of the provinces. (Cheers). We can be no parties to the suspension of the operation of the Abolition Act for any time, be it ever so Bhort, or to the revival of provincialism in any form. (Cheers). That is clearly laid down at once, and it will be our duty to smooth the way for the transition from the old to the new form of government. We have already taken steps in that direction, but nothing can conduce to that desirable end so much as the assistance and co-operation of the provincial authorities. We know that a considerable number of the pro- i vincial authorities will give us their hearty cooperation, and we still hope that many of those who have hitherto declined to assist us will lend us their aid. As to the question of the land fund and separation, naturally a distinct avowal will be expected, and I will give as distinct an avowal as it is possible to give. The Househasdecidedthesequestions during thepresent Bessionby largemajorities, and we as a Government shallloyallyacceptthe decisions which have been given, and faithfully, carry them out. [Mr. Macandrbw : For the session.] (Loud laughter by Opposition members). 1 have no objection to the hon. gentlemau's interpolation, but I don't think it would suit his book for us to take the other side. I will only say let those laugh that win. (Hear, hear.) As regards public works, we propose, as was proposed by the late Colonial Treasurer, to ask authority to raise two millions of money as a new loan, but we only propose during the present year to raise one million of this, unless the market should be exceedingly favorable. The one million we propose to raise will probably be required to meet the provincial liabilities. It may be asked by the House why, if we have the balance of the loans on hand, and which would be sufficient to carry us into next year with our public works, we wish to raise a fresh loan during the current year ? The reason is this—we considered it of absolute importance that there should be no check whatever on the construction of the main trunk lines of railway through the colony, though we are equally convinced that it is necessary to carry these on at a slower rate than that at which they have been carried on for some years past, and we shall ask the House to co-operate with us in not allowing these works to be forced on. But if our public works and immigration aretobecarriedon continuously, it will be necessary to provide means this session, because, although as I have said the balance of loans, £BOO,OOO, will carry us some way into next year, it will be impossible to pass a Loans Act next session and obtain the money until some months after these balances have been expended ; therefore I trust the House will see its way clear to give its consent, because we shall not be inclined to enter into works until the means for carrying them on are provided. With regard to immigration, we propose to watch the labor market with considerable care ; and we hope as tim« goe3 on the system of nominated immigration will be more generally used. The nominated passengers are greatly increasing; we trust they will increase, and even hope that in a short time the immigration by this agency will form a sufficient stream to meet the wants of the colony. In connection with loans I wish to say the Government very much desire to pass the Inscription of Stock Act. The credit of this arrangement is due entirely to Sir Julius Vogel, but I will say no more here than that the: question will be fully gone into when the Bill comes up for consideration, and add that the Government attach very great importance to it. As to the Financial Arrangements Bill, the Ministry propose certain alterations so as to make it somewhat different to the late Bill, provision being made with regard to hospitals, museums, and so forth. The state of the Consolidated Revenue is tolerably well known to hon. members by the statement made by the late Colonial Treasurer, and I do not propose on the present occasion to deal with the matter, because we shall have ample opportunities of doing that when the financial discussion comes on. I simply refer to it to say we are carefully considering the Estimates with a view U) reduction of expenditure and economy. I trust if we can see our way to reductions we shall have the support and assistance of the Houee. With regard to the Counties Bill, we propose, with such assistance as we can obtain from hon. members, to take upon ourselves the responsibility of defining the counties throughout the colony. In every case the county councils we believe should be elective, and npon their first meeting, each council shall decide for itself whether they desire the county to be governed by county organisation or the organisation of road boards. If they determine road boards shall do tho work, then the councils so deciding will become mere distributing bodies —bodies to distribute the surplus land revenue, tolls, pound for pound, fines, fees, &c, among the various road boards. On the other hand, should a county prefer to have county organisation, it will take the management. We propose to modify the Education Act so as to interfere as little as possible with the present existing systems throughout the colony, and to consider during the recess the whole question, with a view of introducing a complete Act next session. As to the Native Lands Bill, we propose not to press that further this session —in fact, we propose to drop it. (A laugh.) But in a. few technical respects the Native Land Act, as it at present exists, will be amended and continued in operation, and during the recess the whole matter will be considered, with a view to legislation next seß3ion. The Native Lands Purchase department is to be handed over to the Commissioner of Crown Lands, to wind it up as soon as possible. The Waste Lantln Act, which we shall ask the House to pass, will be submitted as we can bring it down. In conclusion, I have only to say that I hope that our propositions meet with the approval of the House; if so, and we get to work at once, I hope we I may get through the business in about a month'B time. I have now submitted our policy, which I trust may be acceptable to the Hoiiße. lam aware there js nothing new in it—nothing that the House was not aware of before —in fact, I conceive that it is the only policy which can be carried out at the present time —a policy of steady perseverance in our public works, and continuing immigration within our means, together with prudent and efficient administration. These, I take it, are the real keys of our present position. The Government feel that they will be really expediting public business by moving the adjournment of the House, hoping that tomorrow we shall get to work. I now move the adjournment of the debate. Mr. ANDREW said ho hoped the Premier would withdraw tho motion, as ho (Mr. Andrew) wished to submit the following resolution, —That this House does not approve of the offer of the Agent-Generalship to Sir Julius Vogel. The Hon. Major ATKINSON, said he had no objection to withdraw his motion. Mr.' MACANDREW thought the < hon. member for Wnirarapa should give notice of such an important motion. Mr. ANDREW withdrew his application for postponement of the motion for adjournment, and gave notice of bis motion in reference to the Agency-General.

NEW BILLS. The following Bills were introduced and rend a first time :—The Otagb Harbor Board Act Amendment Bill, the Resident Magistrates Act, 1867, Amendment Bill, the Queenstown Commonage Management Bill. ADJOURNMENT. On the motion for adjournment being put, Sir George Gkey again inquired regarding the appointment of Attorney-General, about which, he contended, there was considerable doubt as to whether he could in law be a member of the House. Mr. WHITAKER made an explanation, in which he said that the House having by large majorities decided against his opinions on separation and the land fund, he was prepared to accept those decisions, and to work in harmony with his colleagues ; but he reserved to himself the right, should he at any future time find the majority of the House in conformity with his opinions, to retire from the Ministry, and endeavor to carry out his views.. Mr. Whitaker then explained the legal position of the Attorney-Generalship, contending that his acceptance of the office was quite legal, and that the Act of 1886, under which, however, he was not appointed, should be repealed. Mr. ItKES contended that the appointment of eight Ministers holding office was illegal, and also the appointment of an AttorneyGeneral. Mr. WHITAKER would be quite happy to meet either Mr. Rees—(Mr. Stout : Hear, hear)—or Mr. Stout, or both, in the Court of Appeal, and discuss the question with them there. Messrs. Thomson and Stout having spoken at some length, after a further discussion the motion for adjournment was carried, ai.d the House adjourned at 9.47 p.m.