MR. THAYERS ADDRESSES THE ELECTORS.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4591, 7 December 1875, Page 1 (Supplement)

MR. THAYERS ADDRESSES THE ELECTORS.

A public meeting, convened by advertisement, was held in tbe Odd Fellows’ Hall on Saturday last'. There were from t wo to three hundred persons present. At a few minutes past eight o’clock Sir. Dransfield took the chair at the request of Mr. Travers, who took occasion to state that Mr. Dransfield was opposed to him in politics, although he had consented to act as chairman. Mr. Dransfield made a few remarks by way of introduction, and then called upon the candidate to deliver himself of his address. Mr. Travers, after apologising to the meetinw for having given such, short notice of his intention to address the electors, said It is some five year's since X had the honor of addressing the Wellington constituency as a candidate for political honors ; and X hope and believe that the time which has p;issed since then has not been altogether unprofitable to myself, as affording me opportunities of making myself better acquainted with the political institutions of the day-—better acquainted with the requirements of the province—and better acquainted with the citizens of Wellington itself ; and I hope, gentlemen, that during that time nothing has taken place regarding my conduct as a citizen which could have the effect of lessening the regard with which I believe I was looked upon, when a candidate for political honors on a former occasion. In what I have to say to-night I propose following somewhat the order in which the several subjects are referred to in my published address. X desire to discuss some of the more important political questions which are now agitating the public mind. You will, of course, understand that it is impossible for any candidate even to foreshadow in the slightest degree the large number of subjects which must necessarily come under the consideration of a Parliament lasting over a period of five years; and if, therefore, I leave out upon the present occasion some subjects upon which many of you feel disposed to obtain information from your candidates, you will, I' hope, excuse me; although I shall be most happy to answer questions on those subjects put to me by any of the electors. But, gentlemen, if I succeed in satisfying you that my views on the subjects which are now prominently under discussion are sound —and if I succeed in satisfying you that I am earnest in my belief in reference to those subjects,—you will probably be willing to trust me in regard to those upon which I cannot possibly foreshadow my opinion. Jfow, gentlemen, one of the most prominent subjects under consideration of every colonist, and regarded with the closest attention by all political -parties as applied to this colony, is the question of the continued existence or abolition of the provincial institutions, and that is a question upon wliich men’s minds are somewhat divided. I think the general feeling of the people of New Zealand is against the continuance of provincial institutions, and I quite agree with that general feeling. Of course, there are some persons who would say of me, “ Oh, you agree with it because it is the general feeling;” but, gentlemen, I think I have it in my power to appeal to my past conduct in reference to provincialism, in order to show that my convictions on that subject are not new-born at all—that, on the contrary, they are convictions which have had a place in my mind for a large number of years—convictions which started their growth from the time when these institutions were brought into operation in New Zealand, and which have not ceased to grow from that time until the present day. I had the honor of making the first political speech under the Constitution of New Zealand, and the circumstances in which I was at that time placed I will relate to you. I was residing in the province of Nelson, and Mr. Stafford, who was then a resident there also, and one of the ablest men in New Zealand, was a candidate for the office of Superintendent of that province under the new Constitution. Now, gentlemen, I do not pretend to any greater foresight than many of my neighbors ; but I have read a good deal on the subject of the political Constitution of England and other countries, and I felt sure at the time that any attempt to establish a double system of government must ultimately end in consequences the most disastrous to this colony. Therefore, I asked Mr. Stafford on that occasion whether he would pledge himself not to become a member of the General Assembly while holding the office of Superintendent. He refused to give that pledge, and I refused to support him. I told him that, so sure as Superintendents became members of the General Assembly, a conflict greater or less must inevitably take place between the provincial authorities and the General Government, which would end in the destruction of one or the other. Well, X believe there was at this time a very large body of the electors of Nelson (exercising for the first time the political privileges of the Constitution) who felt strongly upon this point, and Mr. Stafford did not stand as a candidate for the first session of the Parliament of 1854 ; but he became a member of the Assembly shortly afterwards, and, it is needless for me to say, distinguished himself very much. He has always occupied a high position in the colony, has shown a considerable aptitude for business, and has now grown to see the necessity for abolishing those provincial institutions which he was one of the first to foster in an improper degree. We now find him foremost among those who have awakened to the necessity of a change—a change which his action in. 1853 had much to do in bringing about. I therefore look back to the earliest commencement of the political history of New Zealand under the present Constitution, and can say that from that time until now I have never been a proviucialist in the striet sense of the term. I believe in the people of the colony possessing representative institutions of various lands. I believe in the elective principle, as one that preserves the liberties of the people. I believe in the existence of municipal institutions, and seeing them introduced all over the country according to its requirements. Those institutions should carry out the functions known to municipal bodies in England, without being fettered in their action otherwise than by some particular law, which should be common from one end of the colony to the other. I am entirely opposed to the system which divides the government of the colony into nine legislative bodies, and I believe that if those who inaugurated the Constitution in 1853 had exercised a proper care and foresight we should not now have to complain of a conflict of authority between the General and Provincial Governments. But while I believe—and I have other grounds for my belief to which I shall shortly refer—that the time has come when it is necessary to modify existing institutions, I do also believe that the General Government were guilty of improper haste in the mode in which they attempted to make the change. (Hear, hear.) I believe it was their duty to have laid before the people of the colony some web -considered scheme, which was to take the place of tbe institutions they were pulling down. I do not believe that it is in any degree desirable in this colony that the whole of the power of government—the dealing with municipal questions that ought to be dealt with by tlio people themselves —should centre in the hands of the General Executive. I think that clais of duties ought to devolve upon municipal bodies, and they would be managed very badly indeed if they were to pass into the hands of the General Government. I say that before tbe Government had set to work to pull down institutions which to a certain extent were subserving the interests of the people, they ought to have brought before the country some well-considered scheme of government to replace it. But they acted without proper consideration, in haste, and without knowing what was going to be the result of their action. They brought down, gentlemen, for the purpose of meeting the necessities of the case, during last session, a measure which was called the Local Government Bill, which was imperfect, utterly useless, and was laughed at and scouted by every party in the House. I doubt whether a single individual member, even on the Government benches, raised his voice in favor of so miserably conceived a measure, and we have heard no more about it. But I have not heard of any steps being taken to devise a proper scheme. The public are not invited to consider any scheme, and are, in fact, left entirely in the dark as to what course

they purpose talcing when Provincial Councils fall to the ground, if they are to fall to the ground at all. To my mind the danger m that while the colony has pronounced unmistakably iu favor of abolishing provincial institutions, the failure of the Government to proyn- 16 a suitable substitute will land us in a continuance of provincialism. This bodes inisc ue , for unless they bring forward some scheme replace provincialism, the’ latter must remain iu force. Now, I think it is clearly their duty to bring forward such a measure. tlemen, there was a little note sounded here in this city the other day which perhaps^ ma “'7 ", you did not hear. I saw in the AEW ZE. - Times a few days since, iu reference to . i speech of a certain gentleman, a paragiapi which was to this effect “ Let provincial institutions go to the wall. _ I)o “ t , bother our heads about anything to su° them at present. Let the General *- Tt>v ®*“* ment have the administration of the whole affair for two or three years, and see how it will go.” I have not the paragraph, but i solemnly assure you that it is to be oun in the columns of the New Zealand Ti 1,1 is simply a suggestion to save the Governmen from the difficulty of bringing iu a scheme of government to take the place of the ins i utions which it is proposed to destroy. _ say, do not let municipal government pass into the hands of the General Government, or you will have the government of the country vested in the bauds of officials over whom you have no control whatsoever. I say to you, preserve your municipal government, which is the life and soul of the liberties of the English people. Now, I will say no more about these provincial institutions, and will refer shortly to the finance of the colony. After all, it appears to me that_ the immediate necessity for abolishing provincial institutions arises out of the scheme of public works, which have lauded the colouy in heavy debt. In order to complete the works which have already been commenced, millions of money have yet to be raised. If you take the trouble to make inquiries for yourself, you will find that tbe extent to which these works are already carried out is surprisingly small. Probably many of you have no idea of the limited extent to which these works have reached up to the present time. Major Atkinson, speaking in a glib manner, the other day, about the railway works iu the North Island of the colony, said “ The object of the works in the North Island was to connect Auckland and AVellingtou by rail, and to give access to this line to all places between these two centres.” \VelI, gentlemen, that is a very extensive piece of work to connect Auckland and Wellington by rail. Now, just let us consider what that involves. At present we have commenced a railway northward through the Eimutaka, by Wairarapa, and at Woodville to join the Hawke’s Bay railway, (which, starting from Napier, comes south towards AVellingtou. That line is intended to be connected with another line of railway, passing through the Mauawatu Gorge and connecting the AVanganui country with Taranaki ; but mind, I have not heard yet one single suggestion as to the mode iu which these lines of railway are to be connected with Auckland, I know that if you start from Taranaki to reach Auckland you have a country in which you will meet with inconceivable difficulties —a country occupied by King natives, who are jealous of any attempt to penetrate it; a country of which we know almost as little as we do of the surface of the moon ; a country into which no engineer has ever penetrated for the purpose of surveying ; a country which all persons who have had an opportunity of examining it, declare to be very much broken, and full of difficulty. I know of my own experience that the journey from Napier to Taupo is one of extreme difficulty. There are several ranges of hills to be passed over, tbe greater portion of it is extremely barren scarcely fit for settlement in any portion, and God knows how many miles long. (Laughter.) And when you have got there you are not anyway near Auckland, having about 130 miles further to go before you reach the terminus of the Auckland and Mercer railway. It is, I say, glib talk for a Minister of the Crown to tell you of connection between Auckland and AVellingtou, as did Major Atkinson. A Voice : He meant it would be finished in a thousand years.

Mr. Travers : Very likely. Time has an important effect in all human affairs, and probably a thousand years would suffice at all events ; I do not think, however, we need ask for so long a time as that. But I say it is glib talk on the part of a Minister when he tells ua that to which I referred in the speech of Major Atkinson. Now, let me give you some facts on this matter (I have a diagram here to illustrate my words), and one fact, you know, is worth fifty theories. (Applause.) This diagram represents the provinces of AVellingtou and Hawke’s Bay. That black line (pointing to the map) represents the railway already constructed iu the province of Hawke’s Bay, and the line to AVaipawa will be open, I believe, this month. At all events, I believe the contract time terminates in December. We have from Wanaanui a considerable length of line iu course of being made, and from Fielding’s there is also a certain extent of line under construction. And here we have a part, of considerable anxiety to Wellington, called the Manawatu Gorge. This line is intended to pass up the Manawatu Gorge, and through it to connect with the AVanganui line ; and it is intended to pass down from Manawatu to Masterton,' from Masterton to Featherston, and from Featherston to Wellington. But, gentlemen, you will see that between this part at the Manawatu George, and the city of AVelHngtou there is a tremendous long gap, and that the whole of the AVellingtou line actually constructed and open is represented by one inch ! —(hear) —while the line from Hawke’s Bay, in course of construction, is represented by ten inches; and that from Taranaki to the Gorge is also represented by many inches; and as the whole of these lines converge to this point the effect will be that the whole of the SeventyMile Bush will be tapped by the Hawke’s Bay railway before the Wellington railway has any chance of approaching it. (Hear.) In the AVellingtou province, the lines under contract extend°as far as Featherston, but it will take two years to open the line as far as that, and no attempt has yet been made to project the line from Featherston to Masterton, where it would join on to the Hawke’s Bay line. , And yet, gentlemen, a Minister of the Crown tells us that it is the object of the Government to connect Auckland with AVellingtou by rail. (Laughter.) At all events, the object has not been'carried out, and AVellington has been left most uranistakeably out in the cold with regard to the railways which were to bring AVelHngton into communication with the back country. AVell, I will tell you something with regard to this, too. I lately travelled from AVellington to Hawke’s Bay, and I see gentlemen in this room who have also travelled the same road. (Mr. Travers went ou to explain that he had met with tolerable coach roads as he proceeded, a tramway from Foxtou to Palmerston, and from there he passed by a well-constructed coach road from Manawatu Goroe, and every part of the way from Palmerston into Napier there was a good carriage road.) But what do we find when we reach a place called AVoodville, ou the other side—a bed of clay into which a horse might sink up to his belly. That, gentlemen, is the road to AVellington—(hear)—and there is no means of travelling from Masterton to AVoodville any more than there is by rail. As I said before, we have been entirely left out in the cold, and no effort was made to represent this state of things to Parliament. I say it in the presence of your representatives, who are here to-night. I defy you to produce in Hansard any one single protest against the conduct of the Government. I defy them to show that they ever brought that influence to which their position as supporters of the Government entitled them, to bear upon the Government on behalf of AVellington in respect o£ these matters, which would show that had been done. Such language as Major Atkinson used is clap-trap, and nothing more or less. And, gentlemen, with reference to the subject of public works, let us see some more of the language uttered by the gentleman to whom I have referred. Mr. Bryce, during last session, succeeded in getting an additional representative for Wanganui, and the people of that district, thinking it would be well could they

get Sir Julius Arogel to represent them, asked that gentleman to stand, and to this request Sir Julius Vogel acceded. AVell, gentlemen, what did Major Atkinson say on that subject at AVanganui recently. He said—“ If he (Mr. Bryce) was again elected, and with him Sir Julius A r ogel, the district would have just cause to be proud of their representatives, for no district iu the colony would be before them; the interests of the district could not he placed iu better hands ; aud if they expected to iiave their public works done, he could not advise them to do better than elect their old member (Mr. Bryce) aud Sir Julius Vogel.” Further on, Major Atkinson said—“ He would again say that if they would secure their interests they would elect Mr. Bryce aud Sir Julius A r ogel, aud if they desired to do so more effectually they would elect them unopposed.” I ask, gentlemen, is not sucli language most improper .when uttered by a Minister of the Crown ? Is it not a scandalous mode of attempting to obtain political support for a gentleman like Sir Julius Arogel—a gentleman whom any constituency might well be proud to have representing them. Sir Julius Vogel has made a great name iu New Zealand, he is the author of a policy which will ultimately bring great good to this colouy ; aud his name ought not to be coupled with a suggestion that a borough would, by returning him unopposed, uuraistakeably serve its own interest. (Applause.) As I said before, gentlemen, the question of provincialism is intimately connected with that of finance, and our finance is intimately connected with the public works policy ; aud it has become perfectly clear that to carry that policy out to a successful issue, the General Legislature of the colony must have the fullest possible command of tbe whole of the revenue of the colony. They must have at their command the means of meeting the public creditor and the ordinary charges of government. Now, as was said by Mr. Gisborne, the public creditor already takes from this colony a million a year of hard cash, which must be taken out of the pockets of the people. But the whole of that million a year interest is not attributable to public works; on the contrary, a very large proportion of it is attributable to unprofitable expenditure in the past, from, a continuance of which we have been in a great measure saved by the able native administration of Sir Donald McLean. It has shown ns forcibly that it is far better to feed the natives than to fight them ; for, although we have to pay something to feed them, yet we can sit down and feci tolerably comfortable also. No doubt Sir Douald McLean has managed to keep peace as between Maoris and Europeans, which some of us may lament; but it has turned out satisfactory, and he has kept it going so long that, although there may be some little element of discord which might (in improper hands) be fomented into mischief, still Sir Donald McLean has managed to effect an organisation which there is little chance of breaking down, and there is very little, likelihood of an outbreak for the future ; and I think the colouy has to thank him for the ability and energy he has evinced in managing native affairs for years past. But, gentlemen, there is no question about this, that we have to meet the public creditor. AVe have a million of money at present, and that will only go to complete the works in hand, which do not include the scheme of carrying railways from Auckland to AVellingtou—indeed, it won’t even provide the surveys for that. All that will have to be done afterwards. All the money now iu hand will be absorbed by the contracts now iu existence. If we want to carry out this scheme of public works in its entirety wo have got to borrow more money, and in order to carry out that scheme we need £10,000,000 ; but it may take a very indefinite sum indeed. The public creditor must be satisfied, aud the taxation of the people cannot be reduced so loug as we have got such enormous drains on the resources of the colouy. In those circumstances the Government found i t necessary to look into the finance of the country, and they discovered that they could not allow the provinces to continue to dip their hands into the revenue when they (the General Government) wanted all the available resources to meet the demands upon themselves. I believe sincerely that it was the recognition by the Government of the necessity for having possession of the whale of the revenues of the colony that led to the proposed change iu the Constitution of the country. (Hear.) Now let us look at the provincial aspect. AVe have a million a year at present to pay as interest on debt; we have also to meet the necessities of government, the cost of administration, the cost of performing all those functions devolving upon the Government, aud which are exaggerated in one instance by the peculiar physical characteristics of the country. It is impossible, gentlemen, that the people can put their hands into their pockets at the same time that they are suffering a large amount of indirect taxation, iu the way of Customs duties aud so forth, to the extent necessary to carry out that class of works which properly devolves upon municipal bodies. The General Government accordingly tell the people that so soon as Provincial Governments are abolished they will endow the local hoards aud municipal bodies in a certain proportion, and these endowments are to proceed from the laud fund. But, gentlemen, the land fund is a vanishing quantity. Every hundred acres sold is so mucli less from that fund from which the endowments are to proceed in the future. The necessities of the Government keep on increasing, and as the land fund becomes expended we must resort to some other means for the purpose of carrying into effect the endowments the Government ! speak of ; and in proportion to the rapidity with which the works are carried on, the demand will be the greater. The only source from which these means will be obtained will be direct taxation upon the people themselves. My own impression is that the people must look forward to this state of affairs very soon. The prospect of raising from the Consolidated Revenue a bonus proportionate to the funds raised from the rates is altogether a ’delusion. I believe the Government have not power to meet the demand. As for what Major Atkinson said at AVanganui, it was simply held out as a bait

A Voice : Make it more clear. Mr. Travers ; It is difficult for a man to make a subject more clear than as it appears in his own mind. What I point out is this ; The necessities of the General Government have grown so rapidly, and the loan fund being a vanishing quantity, it is almost a matter of certainty that they will not be in a position to make tbe proposed endowments to road boards and municipalities, and the people _must_ be prepared to look forward within a limited time to the necessity of taxing themselves directly foe the carrying out of those works which ordinarily devolve upon municipal bodies. My belief on that point is based upon what I have said before. Now how many of you have really thought out this subject, and endeavored to see the original cause of the taxation you endure? But I tell you who do think the subject out —tbe commercial men. They know what the tariff means. They are obliged to study the tariff with a view to the success of their occupations. But I ask, how many of you have studied the Customs tariff’ of 1873 i Do you know that everything you wear or consume in any way is taxed!? Your tea is taxed (id. per pound out of the 2s. 3d. which you pay for it. Everything you have ou is taxed. (Hero Mr, Travers enumerated the articles of wearing apparel). The very clothing you sleep in is taxed, aud these articles are taxed at rates varying from 10 to 25 per cent. If you ever look upon these things aud reason upon them for yourselves; if you consider that every time you go into a grocer’s shop and purchase a pound of tea that one-fourth of the money goes towards the Customs revenue of the colony—if, I say, you cousider these things, you will sec that the taxation presses most heavily ou those who are least able to support it. For instance, Ido not consume more tea than probably many a working man with a family—l do not pay any more towards that source of revenue than men who are receiving the minimum rate of wages, and I say it is necessary the public should know in what manner the taxes are raised, and to see that some change is made iu the incidence of taxation by making it bear more heavily on the backs of those who are able to support it. The two honorable gentlemen your members do not care a rush about this. (A Voice :

“ Oil !”) It is quite immaterial to them if the tax on tea is 6d. per pound, because they could sell it at a halfpenny per pound dearer to the consumer. (Laughter). And quite right, too, as regards the halfpenny, because they ought to have interest on their money. But the taxation concerns those who consume the articles taxed, to know that the burden is placed upon their backs ; and they ought to be informed that they have it in their power to change the incidence of taxation if they choose to make their representatives do it in Parliament.

A Voice : Will you help to do it ? Mr. Thaveus ; I certainly will if I am elected. But the efforts of a single individual member are apt to be futile. He is only one of 85 members. The country as a whole must demand from their members a pledge to effect the change. If we have only the voice of one man, all he can do is to suggest in the House ; and, as I said before, if I am elected, I shall consider it my duty to draw attention to the necessity for a reform. I have observed that changes are not so easily made. Oolonial treasurers dare not gamble with the finance of the colony ; they know that the liabilities of the country must be met, and that the interest of the pubhc creditor must be paid ; and before they make any change in the incidence of taxation they must be perfectly certain in their own minds that the change will not produce a diminished revenue, and that they will be in a position to meet the claims upon Government Bills. But it is the duty of the Colonial Treasurer to consider the manner in which the burdens of taxation are placed upon the shoulders of the people, and it is his duty to see whether changes cannot be made tentatively and for the purpose of redistributing the burden. I may toll you a change which I think might usefully be made, and I dare say I shall be told that what I say is clap-trap. A Voice ; Hear, hear. Mr. Travel! B :No doubt. But, gentlemen, I am going to tell you a matter of my own experience. If a man is the owner of a small piece of land and wants to sell a part of it for, say, £IOO, and goes to his lawyer to have the deed made out —or the purchaser goes to his lawyer with the same object—we very speedily see two or three things in connection with the taxation of the country. He finds in the first place that he has to pay 10s. in the way of stamp duty—that is 5 per ceut. on every £SO. Well, gentlemen, if a man of some considerable means goes to buy a property for £5,000, he finds that he has only got to pay at the same rate as the poor man. A Voice : Quite right. Mr. Tuaveus ; Just so. Quite right in the eyes of the mau of property. But, gentlemen, I say there should be a graduated scale in the shape of stamp duties. And have we no precedent for that V Decidedly we have. If you go to the Laud Transfer Office tor the purpose of bringing your property under the Laud Transfer Act, you will find there is a sliding scale there, and I caunot, for the life of me, see why it should not apply in the other case. But the poor man has also got to pay a registration fee, and that is just ns much as iu the case of a gentleman who goes in for a purchase of property to the extent of £IOOO. These transactions, as in many others, press heavily on the poor man, and lightly upon the rich. In this case then, a change might also be made. And I could tell you of many other things of the same kind, iu which there might be a considerable change. Moreover, I see no reason on the face of the earth why there should not be a relief to a considerable amouut of customs and the burden placed upon property- and income, by which the poor would be relieved at the expense of the rich. Nothing of the kind has even been thought of, however, for the purpose of relieving taxation, but simply for the purpose of increasing the reveuue. I say it is the duty of the Treasurer so to deal with the taxes of the country as to place the burden in due proportion upon the rich and poor alike—to make the rich pay iu proportion to their wealth, and the poor to pay in proportion to their inability to meet the demands upon them. And I have no doubt the time will come, when additional taxes are imposed upon the people of- this country, when all these matters will be brought prominently before them, and .they will then compel the representatives to do what they ought to do without compulsion. A change in the incidence of taxation is absolutely necessary, if we are to have anything like a proper system of finance in this colony. But you won’t get that change unless you elect those who will a:sist iu bringing it about. Now, gentlemen, I have touched upon two principal topics, which appear to me to require attention. I have also touched upon public works. lam iu favor of that scheme, so long as it is carried out economically and iu the interests of the colony ; providing that there are no political railways made, and works performed with the object of buying votes, such as making a harbor at New Plymouth at a cost of £160,000, which was dangled before Mr. Carrington, the Superintendent of Taranaki, for the purpose of securing his support. All these things are radically wrong. The Government of the country ought to have the, honesty and pluck to tell the people that which was wanted in the shape of public works, and stick to it. They should not devote the money iu the manner iu which they have been doing it, for the purpose of buying political support, when they know that the carrying out of the scheme of public works inaugurated requires the most unremitting attention and all the resources that are available consistent with the necessities of Government. Gentlemen, I am in favor of immigration and public works ; but, what I demand is, that a well-considered and consistent scheme should be laid before the country ; that it should be brought within the limits of our resources, and carried out so as to meet the great ends in view. I will now say a few words in connection with the Hon. Mr. Richardson, the Minister of Public Works. Gentlemen, he was a godsend to the Government of this colony. The present Minister of Public Works is a simple-minded, honorable man. He does iiot look much into political questions, but he studies the necessities of his department, and carries out the works committed to his control iu the best manner possible. He has succeeded in organising an excellent staff, and has laid the foundation for the successful carrying out of the object held in view when the scheme of public works was inaugurated. He is a mau the colony has reason to be proud of, and grateful too ; because I do firmly believe that but for the services which Mr. Richardson has rendered to this colony we should now have been led into serious disasters, for I do not know of any man in the Assembly who could possibly fill his place, and if any circumstances should lead to his retirement from office it would be to the advantage of the colony to secure the continuance of his services at a considerable sacrifice. I do not think, however, for a moment, that he would look at the matter iu that light at all, but what I do say is that he deserves the gratitude of the colony for the way in which he has administered his department. But, while I believe that the leader of that department has acted iu a satisfactory manner, looking at the works as a whole, I caunot shut my eyes to the tact that there has been a very large amount of unnecessary expenditure, and even waste in conciliating political supporters. We see this, for instance, in the construction of lines from nowhere to nowhere, such as that from Nelson to Poxton. This, I say, is utterly unworthy of the Ministry, whose duty it is to bring before the public the necessity for expenditure in certain directions, and to take their stand on those works only which are necessary to the full carrying out of the scheme initiated by Sir Julius A r ogel in 1871. Another subject which has been very much discussed out of doors and in the papers is that of education, regarding which I intend making a few remarks. I have lately perused the works of Hubert, Spencer, and Professor Huxley on the subject. I entirely agree with the views propounded by Professor Huxley, one of the greatest men of the day. Ho is a man whose habit of analysis has enabled him to master the questions in a manner very few men can, and I have observed with pleasure by the well thumbed.pages of his works in the Athemieum that ho is well read by the people of Wellington. I believe it is the duty of the State to provide for the general education of the people. It is their duty to lay the foundation upon

which all the children of the State may ultimately build up the superstructure of extended konwledge. It is not the duty of the State to turu out scholars. All it has to do is to turn out from its schools hoys and girls who will ultimately develope into intelligent meu and women. There are to be found hundreds of examples of meu who have risen from the humbler ranks of life to the highest eminence, aud who started with little more knowledge than that obtained at the national schools of England. I may instance a few of the great men. I speak of Watt, the Peels, Hugh Miller, the theologist, and Sutton. This class of meu are represented iu almost every branch of science aud mechanics—men who have risen to eminence upon a foundation of knowledge of a slender character, and it is the duty of the State therefore to afford to all its children an opportunity of obtaining an amount of instruction upon which they may afterwards build a more extended knowledge. And that is the whole duty of the State. They are concerned only with secular education—they have no business to meddle with religious education at all. (Hear.) But, gentlemen, let it be distinctly understood that I do not despise or in any degree deprecate religious instructions. All I say is that State schools are not the places where, as I understand it, religious instruction should be given. Religious instruction in schools means denomiuationalism. If we allow lay teachers in the schools to go into religious instruction at all it must of necessity degenerate into denomiuationalism, aud it does not do for the State to permit that. The State concerns itself only with the secular education of its children. But I should not be opposed to the Bible being read in school. Iu those schools in which it could be done I should like to see the Bible read as it is known to the children, and for lay teachers to give explanations to those who read it upon the geography, history, aud grammar involved in its writings, hut I should deprecate any explanations savoriug of denomiuationalism. Let me read to you a passage from the work of Professor Huxley bearing upou this point. It is taken from a speech delivered by him when he was a candidate for a seat upon the Metropolitan School Board, and is as follows: “ If Bible reading is nut accompanied by constraint and solemnity, as if it were a sacramental operation, I do not believe there is anything in which' children take more pleasure. At least, I know that some of the pleasantest recollections of my childhood are connected with the voluntary study of an ancient Bible, which belonged to my grandmother. There were splendid pictures in it to be sure, hut I recollect little or nothing about them save a portrait of the high priest in vestments. What came vividly back on myinind are remembrances of my delight iu the histories of Joseph and of David, and of my keen appreciation of the chivalrous Idnduess of Abraham in his dealings with Lot. Like a sudden flash there returns back upou me my utter scorn of the pettifogging meanness of Jacob, and my sympathetic grief over the heartbreaking lamentation of the cheated Esau—‘ Hast thou not a blessing for mo also, O, myfather V —and I see, as in a cloud, pictures of the grand phantasmagoria of the Book of Revelation. I enumerate as they issue the childish impressions which came crowding out of the pigeon holes iu my Main, in which they have lain almost undisturbed for forty years. I prize them as an evidence that a child of five or six years old, left to his own devices, may be deeply interested iu the Bible, and draw sound moral sustenance from it. And I rejoice that I was left to deal with the Bible alone, for if I had had some theological ‘ explainer ’ at my side, he might have tried, as such do, to lessen my indignation against Jacob, aud thereby have warped my moral sense for ever; while the great apocalyptic spectacle of the ultimate triumph of right and justice might have been turned to base purposes.” These are the views entertained by Professor Huxley, that the Bible might be read iu the schools with advantage to the children, but deprecates any attempt to introduce theological explanations, and these are my views, gentlemen. I should, as I have said, like to see the Bible read in schools, so long as it did not do violence to the consciences of the parents of those attending the schools. If such an objection is raised, then I say let religious instruction be given where it should be given, outside of the schools, and by the parents and pastors of the children of different denominations. And I believe this State will carry out its object best by confining itself strictly to secular education. (Hear.) That it is the duty of the State to provide such education I believe most thoroughly. I will quote from the same author on this point. Professor Huxley concludes his speecli thus: — “If the positive advancement of the peace, wealth, and the intellectual aud moral development of its members are objects which the Government, as the representatives of the corporate authority of society, may justly strive after in fulfilment of its end—the good of mankind ; then it is clear that the Government may undertake to educate the people. Eor education promotes peace by teaching men the realities of life, aud the obligations which are involved iu the very existence of society ; it promotes intellectual development, not only by training the individual intellect, hut by sifting out from the masses of ordinary or inferior capacities those who are competent to increase the general welfare by occupying higher positions ; and, lastly, it promotes morality and refinement, by teaching men to discipline themselves, and by leading them to see that the highest, as it is the only permanent content, is to bo attained, not by grovelling in the rank aud steaming valleys of sense, but by continual striving towards those high peaks, where, resting iu eternal calm, reason discerns the undefined but bright ideal of the highest Good—‘A cloud by day ; a pillar of fire by night.’ ” These, gentlemen, are words which must commend themselves to every thinking man, as showing us what is the duty of the Government towards the people—that of providing for the education, which is the source of liberty, and that they can best provide for by promoting the individual capacity of the people. I have no more to say to you gentlemen. I have told you my views on the subjects of provincialism, the finance of the colony, public works, aud education, and these appear to me to be the four points requiring to be touched upou on the present occasion. If I have satisfied you ou these points—if I have convinced you that my opinions are sound with respect to them, then, gentlemen, I can only appeal to luy career amongst you to satisfy you that, if elected, I shall fearlessly urge those views upon the Government of the colony. I am not in the habit of mincing my words, aud tell you simply what I think. I have no personal object to gain by entering Parliament. To show you that such is the case, I could have been Attorney-General last year had I liked, but I did not like, aud what is more, I would uot be Attorney-General if the post were offered to me to-morrow.

A Voice ; Why ? Mr. Tuaveus ; Eor the simple reason that it pays me a great deal better to practise as a lawyer. (Laughter.) As a matter of pounds, shillings, and pence, I am a great deal better off as Mr. Travers, solicitor, than I should he as Attorney-General. Moreover, lam too old for it. I want to go aud amuse myself here and there in the field, aud to take office under Government I should have to eradicate certain habits which have grown on me with years, and which are only to he tom out with a great deal of trouble. And I do not intend to try the experiment. Therefore, I am as independent as the day with respect to the Government. I have never asked the Government for a favor the worth of a straw to give ; aud, if I had, I believe it would have been refused. I have no interest to serve whatsoever. I desire to have the honor of representing you iu the House of Representatives, for I believe I could do some good, aud carry into that House an experience which would enable me to be of real service to you. My independence is as perfect as any mau who stands in shoe leather in New Zealand. I speak my sentiments freely and openly. If I see things going wrong, Ido not hesitate to say they are wrong ; and if right, I say they are right. These are my views, and I ask you to examine my career, such as it has been since I have been amongst you, to see whether I have ever been guilty of any. tiling which justifies ypu iu assuming that

anything I have said to you to-night is otherwise than absolutely and perfectly true. . I ask you to believe me, gentlemen, when I assure you that I will do my very best to serve you with such capacity as God has given me. (Applause.)

The Chairman intimated that Mr. Travers would answer any questions that electors might desire to put. An Elector ; Is any collision going to take place between you and Mr. Gisborne ? (Laughter.) Mr. Travers said he thought the gentleman had made some mistake. He remembered seeing in the Times some time ago, a paragraph written by—well, perhaps, he should be committing a breach of etiquette by mentioning the gentleman’s name—he styled himself the “ Intelligent Vagrant," and in telling the story, mentioned the names of gentlemen resident in Cork, with whom he (Mr. Travers) was acquainted, whence he assumed the writer to be a Cork gentleman, with whom he was likewise acquainted. But the writer of the story related how a certain party had confounded the words collision and collusion, and he (Mr. Travers) was reminded of the story by the question just put, the questioner evidently having made the same error. If the gentleman meant, was there any collusion between him and Mr, Gisborne, he might say there was none whatever. They might have in common many sentiments, but each ■ was going in on his own hook. An Elector : Are you in favor of bringing in a measure to place duty on exports ? Mr. Travers : Certainly not; lam not in favor of putting on any export duties whatever. Hon. Mr. Waterhouse : There is one subject of considerable importance that you have not referred to, and upon which I should like to know your seutimeuts. What I wish to ask is, what are your opinions in reference to that most obstructive body, the Legislative Council ? Mr. Travers : If he might say so, the Legislative Council stands apparently rather low in the esteem of many persons in the* colony. For myself, looking at the thing from a lawyer’s point of view, I think they have scarcely received the credit due to them in consideration of the work they have done. They appear to have worked exceedingly well, and although one might feel disappointment at the breaking down of a particular measure, he considered on the whole that the Council had done their work remarkably well. Ho had remarked that the measures originated in the Council last session had received much less amendment than those which had originated in the House of Representatives. At the same time, he thought there was no reason whatever why the elective element should not he introduced into the constitution of that ' branch of the Legislature under proper safeguards. Thus, he did not consider it desirable to have a double code of representatives. If the second House was to he elected on the same principle and under the same circumstances as the House of Representatives, what in the name of fortune was the good of having two Houses ? If the advantage of having a second House was required, there ought to be some distinction iu regard to the men who compose it. It appeared to him that the matter had not been properly thought out. They saw many men who would say the Council ought to be constituted on the elective principle, without being able to say why, or to suggest a scheme satisfactory to the people at large. One man would take age as a qualification, another property, another that they should be elected by a certain class of the electors, and so on. But no one appeared to have laid down a scheme on some broad basis for the benefit of those who might be disposed to consider it. His impression was that in a democratic country like ours, the elective principle ought, as far as possible, to be carried out, but he should not be prepared to disturb the existing character of the Legislative Council until he saw some scheme which would have the effect of replacing it by a body exercising a certain conservative control over the legislation of the House of Representatives.

An elector wished to know the candidate’s opinion respecting the San Francisco mail service. Mr. Travers said he never did believe in that service, and he believed the present contract would meet the fate of its predecessor. The Governments of New South Wales and New Zealand were not likely to be reconciled. He entirely deprecated the action of the Government as authorized to enter into that contract. They had no business to exceed their powers, which were as limited as in the case of a private individual when authorized to carry out a certain work. His impression was that the whole thing had been messed. Mr. Travers then referred to a discussion of increased postal communication between New Zealand and England which took place in 1869, when a proposal was made for an extra line of communication so as to give us fortnightly mails from England with the aid of what was known as the Peninsula and Oriental line, and he remembered that he pointed out at the time what was mentioned to him by a ■ gentleman resident in Queenslaud, that with such a service, and communication between this and Queensland, a considerable trade might be opened with the latter place. He went on to point out that the difference in the products of Queensland and New Zealand made the idea of an extensive trade between the two countries extremely feasible. The service which was at that time proposed would not open up a trade with Queenslaud, but with the Malayan Islands, and through to Singapore. Sir Julius Vogel, in referring to the proposal, had said the subject was one of great importance, and to which the Government would give a great deal of consideration; but nothing had been done from that date to this, and this miserable San Francisco service had been palmed off upon us at a cost of £40,000 a year. An Elector: Are you in favor of increasing the number of representatives for Wellington ? Mr. Travers said that Wellington’s position was such as entitled it to additional representation, and further said that Wellington should be the port of arrival and departure of mail vessels. An Elector wished to know whether Mr. Travers was in favor of triennial Parliaments ' Mr. Travers did not consider the question of much importance, provided the electors obtained representatives of a satisfactory character. It would only entail more frequent elections and disturbance. But he considered it a matter of little importance. It would certainly give the constituents an opportunity of changing their representatives more often, if they felt so disposed, and if it was the general wish he should be quite prepared to support it. An Elector : Will you bo prepared to adhere to abolition ? Mr. Travers said he had expressed himself on that subject. But he might say that he should thiuk it unadvisable to do away with the provinces before they had something to put in their place. An Elector : Why don’t you propound something! Mr. Travers : It is not my place to propound a scheme—that is the business of the Government. But you must not suppose that because I do not choose to propound a scheme that I have uo opinion ou the subject. Sir Julius Vogel asked me last year to draw up a scheme of local government, and he must have thought I had some knowledge of the subject or he would uot have asked me. But for some reason or other it fell through. Therefore, gentlemen must not suppose because I do uot choose to lay before them a scheme that I have uo opinion. Mr. Duncan proposed a vote of thanks to Mr. Travers for his address. (Cheers.) Mr. Travers then proposed a vote of thanks to the chairman, aud the meeting dispersed.