MR. SHEEHAN AND THE HAWKE'S BAY INTERPRETERS.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4548, 18 October 1875, Page 2

MR. SHEEHAN AND THE HAWKE'S BAY INTERPRETERS.

TO OTE EDITOR OF THE NEW .ZEALAND TIMES. Sin,—l observe in Hansard of the 12th of October, inst., (which I only had an opportunity of seeing yesterday) that Mr. Sheehan, spoaking in his place in the House on the 6th inst, made some sweeping charges against the Interpreters of Hawke's Bay, of corruption and dishonesty in their dealings with the natives in connection with the 1 purchase of the Heretaunga block. At the time of which Mr. Sheehan speaks I was one of those unhappy Hawke's Bay interpreters, and although he has not charged me with endeavoring to cheat or mislead the natives in any way, nevertheless he has made a statement calculated to damage my character in the estimation of persons who do not know me; therefore, trusting in your love of fair play, I beg to solicit that you will afford me the favor of a space in your columns, for the purpose of setting myself right in this matter. Mr. Sheehan, speaking of the difficulty a noted individual named Stuart experienced in obtaining the services of an interpreter, says:—"But Mr. Stuart was not to be baulked, and he went to another interpreter. . I may say that there were four interpreters in Hawke's Bay at the time. Mr. Stuart went then to Mr. Orindell, who is now, I believe, the editor of the Waha Maori, and ho undertook to conduct the negotiations, and received £SO from Mr. Stuart as a deposit. Other parties heard of this arrangement, and found that Mr. Grindell had gone out to negotiate for the purchase of some of the shares ; so thoy at once went to him and said, ' We understand that you have been engaged by Mr. Stuart to negotiate for the purchase of these shares. What has he given you ?' He replied, '£so.' 'Then.'said they, 'hero is £SO if yon will negotiate for us.' And ho took it, and negotiated for them and throw Mr. Stuart ovor."

I say, in answer to thiß, that I did not receive £SO, or any other sum from Mr. Stuart; that I did not undertake to negotiate for the other party, and that I did not negotiate for them. I will not charge Mr. Sheehan with wilful misrepresentation. It Is probable that some enemy of mine has toid him what he has stated, and that ho believes it to be true ; but the facts are simply as follow:—Mr. Stuart engaged me to endeavour to obtain the signatures of certain natives to a deed conveying their shares in the Heretaunga block to him. I visited tho natives interested; but thoy refused to come into town to see Mr. Stuart on tho subject, saying they did not wish to sell to any one. I told this to Mr. Stuart, informing him at the same time that I saw no chance of his obtaining the property,, and that any further efforts on my part would be useless, fie had an account against me at tho time of some £3 or £4, for goods which I had purchased at his store, and he agreed to square tho account by giving me credit to that amount for tho troublo I had taken in the affair. And so ray engagement with him ended. Some time after this Mr. Tanner, knowing that Mr. H. R. Russell sometimes employed me in native work, came and asked me if I were engaged by that gentleman in connection with the Heretaunga block. Finding that I was not, ho said, " If you will not act against me in the matter of obtaining Karaitiana's signature, I will give you £6O when ho. signs tho Heretaunga deed. I do not want you to negotiate, but simply to remain neutral." This I agreed to do. Some time after this Mr. Russell wroto to me saying ho wanted me at Waipukurau to transact some native business. On arriving at Waipukurau I found that I was required to act as interpreter in the negotiation with a woman named Arihi for tho salo of her share in the Heretaunga block to Mr. James Watt and Mr. H. R. Russell. This woman had previously sold her share to Mr. Tanner, on the condition, as I afterwards learned, that he completed tho purchaso by a certain date. Under these circumstances, I refused to act for Mr. Russell and Mr. Watt, unless Mr. Tanner wore first sent for and informed of what was being done. I told thom of my agreement with him, and said that by assisting In that transaction I should bo departing from the spirit of that agrooment. Much persuasion was used to induce mo to depart from my resolution, but I absolutely refused to have anything to do with tho matter unless Mr. Tanner were sont for. At last a telegram was sent to that gentleman, and ho came up and had a long intorview with Messrs Russell and Watt, without, however, boing ablo to arrive at any terms. Ho then said to me, " You have acted very honorably in this affair, and I shall consldor myself bound to fulfil my promiso to you whatever happens. You can now do what Mr. Russell requires of you." Mr. Tanner afterwards honorably fulfilled his agrooment with mo. With the negotiation for tho purchase of the Heretaunga blook I had nothing whatever to do, from the beginning to tho ending. . „ , ~ „, The least I can say of this matter is, that Mr. Sheehan should have been certain of the accuracy of his information before he made a statement prejudicial to the character of another, and more particularly in a

place where that other could have no opportunity of defending himself. I was for eighteen years a resident in Napier, and I fearlessly challenge -Mr. Sheehan to say that he ever heard me spoken of by the people of that town as a man likely to commit a dishonorable action, whatever other eccentricities I might be capable of committing. Mr. Sheehan in one part of his speech says: In not one single instance in these transactions did the natives have the benefit of legal advice, or even the assistance of a disinterested friend." In another place, speaking of the ignorance of the natives, he says he found that they "had not the least idea of the significance of the term ' mortgage.'" And again : " The natives themselves could not know that there were any other persons in the market for the land. Therefore, these interpreters protected them (the holders of the lease) from being opposed by any outsiders seeking to purchase the block, and prevented the natives from knowing that any one desired to do so." To these assertions the following translation of an extract from an article published by me (one of those unprincipled interpreters) at Napier in the Waka Maori, of date December 16, 1569, will, I think, be a sufficient answer. Here is the article referred to :--" We desire further to say a word respecting the action which the people (natives) are now taking, in mortgaging their lands. It is quite true that mortgaging property is customary among the pakehas; but it is a practice by which many men are ruined. To derive any advantage from it, a man must be unusually cautious and experienced: but the natives are altogether inexperienced in such matters. It is doubtless safe to mortgage to a just European—a man of honorable principles. Another necessary thing is, that the interpreters should truthfully and clearly explain all the provisions in the mortgage deed, so that the Maoris may fully understand it, lest they sign their names to they know not what. Let no man sign his name to a mortgage deed unless.he thoroughly understand its contents: he he may then sign or not as he pleases. The provisions contained in the mortgage deeds which the natives are now executing, we consider objectionable. The correct thing would be to make the mortgage cover the amount only of the debt owing by the mortgagor at the date of his signing the deed: but it is not so managed-. In the mortgages which are now being executed it is usual to insert the words ' and for all future advances;' so that the land is taken as security, not only for past advances, but also for whatever goods may be given subsequent to the execution of the mortgage. Then the pakeha exhibits his goods to tempt the man, who is caught like a fish upon a hook. His debt, in consequence of his continually drawing fresh supplies of goods, added to the interest, becomes so heavy that at last the land has to go, because he is unable to pay. Henceforth, if any of you give a mortgage, let it be only for the value of the goods you have already received: let there be no such words inserted as 'and for all future advances which may hereafter be made.' Tf such words be inserted, the astute and unscrupulous trader will take advantage of them to induce the mortgagor to take his goods, so that he may absorb the whole of the land; that would suit him exactly. Some of you are even now heavily in debt for goods which you have obtained, and your lands are already mortgaged. We feel assured that you will not be able to pay off your debts within the number of years named in the mortgage deeds ; the result will be that your lands must go, for your debts are constantly increasing in amount. It would be better for you to sell outright a portion of the lands so mortgaged, to enable you to pay off these debts at once, so that the remaining portion of your lands may be clear. This would be preferable to losing the whole ; a portion would be secured to you If you do not dispose of a part to clear off the other part, you will in the end lose the whole (ie., of the mortgaged lands.) If you get a part of your lands thus cleared, take warning, and be on your guard afterwards. Keep out of debt; pay for your goods as you get them. You know the old (Maori) proverbs:— Attack with one hand, and defend with the other' (i.e., when you take goods with one hand, have the payment ready in the other); j and ' "Depart satisfied, remain satisfied' (i.e., the purchaser departs satisfied,and the seller remains satisfied.) If you determine upon selling some land, let it not be done privately. Make no bargains in a corner of the house. Advertise in the European newspapers, so that your intentions may be publicly known amongst the pakehas ; and you may thus find some one who will give you a higher price than you would otherwise j have obtained. This is the pakeha custom, and sometimes they sell by auction." How can Mr. Sheehan say, in the face of this, that the natives " had not even the assistance of a disinterested friend." I could say very much more upon this matter, but as my object is simply to clear my own character from the reflections cast upon it, I shall not pursue the subject further. Apologising for encroaching so much upon your space.—l am, &c, James Grindell. Wellington, October 15.