PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4523, 18 September 1875, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Friday, September 17. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at the usual hour. REPORTS. Reports of the Goldfields Committee and Waste Lands Committee were brought up. NOTICE OF MOTION. The Hon. Mr. PHARAZYN gave notice that he would, on Wednesday next, move for leave to introduce a Bill, entitled the Wellington Educational Reserves BilL NAPIER GAS BILL. The above Bill was read a third time, and passed. RIGHTS OF TISIBER. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOTJSE moved that there be laid upon the table copies of all correspondence in the possession of the Government relating to rights of timber upon lands affected, or likely to be affected, by revocation of proclamation, in the manner prescribed by the second section of the Immigration and Public Works Act, 1874. There could be no doubt as to the desirableness of the public being put in possession of information relative to the issue of those proclamations. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN replied that there could be no objection whatever to furnishing the information which his hou. friend desired, as far as it was possible to obtain it. It had been stated in another place that the Government had had an individual object in the revocation of the proclamation, and he himself had been referred to as a party to that arrangement. It was stated that that clause had been introduced into the Bill for the purpose cf conferring certain blocks of land upon private individuals. He was only sorry that he had not had an opportunity of replying, face to face with his accuser, in the way he certainly should reply to such an unfounded assertion. He had no hesitation whatever in saying that what had been done in the case referred to was legally, properly, and equitably done. No man's rights had been infringed. The land was taken out of no one's control, and was; not removed from the operation of the goldfields laws. The case was simply this : that certain rights acquired previously to the aquisition of the land by the Government, were protected as they ought to have been from the operations of persons who had no title to interfere. He could only characterise the assertion made in another place with respect to himself and the Government as being utterly false and without the smallest foundation. He was very much obliged to the hon. member (Mr. Waterhouse) for giving him—whether intentionally or not —an opportunity of answering the statements made, and to which, up to the present time, he had had no opportunity of replying. The motion was then'put, and carried. BILLS. The Public Health Act Amendment Bill was read a second time, committed without amendment, read a third time, and passed. The Electric Telegraph Bill was read a second time, passed through committee, ant! was ordered to be further considered on Wednesday next. The Oainaru Gas Works Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed ou Tuesday next. The Council went into committee for the reconsideration of the Taranaki Waste Lands Bill. Mr. KOBINSON moved two amendments, which were negatived. The Bill having been reported, Mr. Kobinson moved that the Bill be read a third time that day six months, but his motion was negatived, and the Bill was passed. The Timaru Municipal Council Empowering Bill was read a third time, and passed. The Ann Hood Grant Bill passed through committee, and was ordered to be read a third time on Tuesday. The Highway Boards Empowering Bill was also committed, and on the motion of Mr. Robinson, the Chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again on Tuesday next for the purpose of adding a clause. The Couucil then adjourned. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Friday, Sept. 17. Various notices were given. NEW BILL3. Bills were introduced—By Mr. Taiaeoa : Maori Representation Act Amendment and Continuance BilL By the Hon. Mr. Reynolds : Otago Harbor Board Empowering Bill, and Clutha River Trusts Reserves Bill. Advanced a stage. PRIVILEGE. The Hou. Mr. FITZHERBERT said he wished, before the House proceeded to the orders of the day, to bring under notice a breach of privilege, which was simply this : that telegraphic reports of the proceedings of the House had been interpolated and tampered with by a certain paper, so that words had been put into the mouth of a hon. member of the House which had never been used by him. The sense of the hon. member's remarks had been completely perverted, and he was theu

held up to public.scorn and ridicule. The paper he referred to was the Sout7icrn Cross, published in Auckland, and he should relate the facts as briefly as possible. He quoted from the Auckland Ecenhvj Star an article which asserted that the Southern Cross had interpolated a Press Agency report of the speech of Sir George Grey, and had thus made it read differently to the same telegram published in the Auckland Herald of same date. The date on which the debate took place was September 2, and on referring to Hansard he found member for Auckland City West had spoken thus—and parenthetically he might say that it appeared in Hansard just as it had been reported, the hon. member not. having altered the proof in the least degree. The speech read thus in Hansard :—" I say it is an undoubted truth, and a truth which must be maintained by all lawful *ud constitutional means that the provinces that have existed under this Constitution Act, if the Assembly persevere in the course they are now pursuing, have a right to determine what their own future shall be. Each province has a right in itself to say, as the United States originally did, 'We "came into this federation under a certain compact : if you destroy that federation, we have a right to begin ab initio to determine what our own future in every respect shall be.' I say this, that this right and liberty have invariably been allowed by Great Britain to countries placed under similar circumstances." That was how it was reported in Hansard. This was what the editor of the Southern Cross had-put into the mouth of the hon. member Mr. LUCKIE : No. Mr. FITZHERBERT : Then this was a quotation from the Southern Cross. Mr. LUCKIE : That will do.

Mr. FITZHERBERT read as follows : " He for one would assist the people in such a course as that taken against the mother country by the American colonies." That was how the Cross had rendered it, and a more foul perversion of a man's words he (Mr. Fitzherbert) had never seen. To hold up the hon. member for Auckland City West, whose career, whatever difference might exist as to his views on particular subjects, was such as to render him amongst the most distinguished men of New Zealand, and that pre-eminence not confined to to New Zealand, but recognised in every part of the British Empire—to misrepresent his words, and then hold up such a man as a traitor to his Queen and country, was the foulest and most disreputable conduct in any journal or any man. It was not the Press Agency who was to blame, for a note had been received from Mr. McCarthy, the manager of the Press Agency, in which it was stated that words had been been added to the telegram at the Southern Cross office which put an entirely different construction upon the whole telegram. He called the attention of the House to the fact that the. colony was giving an enormous rebate to the Press of the colony, by cheapening the rate at which messages might be sent, and it was an aggravation of the offence when they found that the general public was affording facilities to the Press for using the telegraph exclusively for the purpose, as it appeared, of damaging the character of public men. Having given a list of the charges for Press telegrams, in order to show the cheapness, he proceeded to say he did not know who was connected with the Southern Cross, or whether the paper had a representative in that House. He presumed it would be impossible to bring the charge home to the person who had been guilty of such wilful distortion ef words and perversion of the truth, but he believed a great offence against the privileges of the members of the House had been committed, and he wished to call the attention of hon. members to the fact. He had one more remark to make. It had been evident for some time past, that ever since that distinguished gentleman (Sir George Grey) had entered the House to take part in their deliberations and to assist in doing what he believed to be right and proper for the good of the country, he had been continually assailed and abused in a most cowardly manner. He did not intend to enter into that subject, but he merely drew attention to the fact, and would further express his firm belief that had the hon. member remained in that dignified seclusion in which for some years he had lived, and been willing to allow the country to go to ruin while he folded his hands and lamented its fate in a quiet selfiah spirit, instead of being abused he would have been praised. He would have been great for ever. But because he had dared to come forward and draw public attention to the state of affairs, and to prefer charges of mal-administration and corrupt administration and dealings with the public estate of the country, it was attempted to silence him by abuse. But their was a limit to this sort of thing, and when the privileges of that House were invaded, and a member had words put into his mouth which he never had used, it was time for the House to interfere. (Loud cheers from the Opposition benches.)

The SPEAKER said if the matter was to go further the hon. member must make a motion.

The Hon. Mr. FITZHERBERT said he should merely make a formal motion, for he did not desire to take any action against the newspaper. With all its faults, the Press in a free country must have its freedom preserved, and he could see no good arising from the managers ©r publishers of a paper being brought to the bar of the House. Such a course only created a public sympathy for the paper. Mr. LUCKIE commented on the remarks of the hon. member for the Hutt, and said although the hon. member had used plaintive language in deprecation of the hon. member for Auckland City. West being held up to ridicule and scorn by the Pres 3 generally

The Hon. Mr. PITZHERBERT said he had not spoken of the Press generally. Mr. LUCKIE said although he had grown so pathetic, yet the charge was nothing to those which the hon. member for Auckland City West had thrown broadcast against members in that House. The hon. member for the Hutt should have been the last to defend the hon. member for Auckland City West, seeing that years ago he (Mr. Fitzherbert) had moved a resolution charging him (Sir George Grey) with " unfairness and dishonesty," and bringing under the notice of the Secretary of State the " general untruatworthiness of his despatches." Mr. STOUT : When was that ?

Mr. LUCKIE : 1849. (A laugh.) Then after all there seemed to be very little distinction between what the Cross had published and what the Agency had Bent. He would be the last to condone or excuse any interpolation in telegrams. If such a thing had been done by mistake, the mistake should be acknowledged, but if it was designedly done, it deserved reprobation. But as he had said before, after all the distinction made by the hon. member for the Hutt was but a pretence. The words used and the words published in effect were precisely the same. A Mejibeb : No. Mr. r,UCKIIS : Who says no ? Several Members : I do.

Mr. LUCKIE : Then you don't understand the matter. All the papers had published the telegram in nearly the same shape. The Auckland Herald put it thus : " He for one would assist the people in such a course as that taken in the United States." The Southern, Cross said : " He for one would assist the people in such a course as that taken ag inst the mother country by the American colonies." The Canterbury . Press said : " Therefore, if the House granted this Act the people of Auckland would have a right to meet as did the people of the States of America, and determine what their future was to be." The Olayo Guardian and Daily Times said : "Therefore, if this Act passed he for one would assist the people in the same course as was followed in the States of America." All telegrams led to the same conclusion, as might be judged from the nature of the comments of the Press. The hon. member then quoted remarks from a Wellington evening paper, which wroto in the interests of the Opposition, but which in this instance said Sir George Grey had " preached sedition and avowed himself ready to turn rebel." The Otarjo Guardian had said as much, and had added "of course he (Sir George

Grey) did not divulge the true reason which impelled him to make such unpardonable utterances." To him (Mr. Luckie) it seemed clear that the hon. member in using the words had referred to something more than mere Parliamentary action. As to tho grave charges made against him, they were as nothing compared with charges he was continually making. He was perpetually making statements which careful consideration must show him he had no right to make. Sir Donald McLean, Mr. Eolleston, and Mr. Sheehan also addressed themselves to the question. Mr. LUCKIE then said he had just received a telegram from the manager of the paper, explaining that the telegram which appeared in the Cross had, by an arrangement in force between all morning and evening papers in Auckland, been clipped from the Echo of the 3rd September. Therefore the Cross was not responsible. The motion was then withdrawn, and the matter terminated. AN EXPLANATION. Mr. MERVYN drew attention to an expression of Mr. J. C. Brown's as reported in Hansard, in which it was stated that he (Mr. Mervyn) had stated that which he believed to be untrue. THE LUNA. Mr. SHEEHAN asked why notice of the Luna's departure for Napier had not been given, so that members should have had an opportunity of writing by her. Sir DONALD McLEAN explained that she had gone on business connected with lighthouses, and that there were steamerstarting almost immediately, and carrying mails. THE ABOLITION BILL. The House went into committee on this Bill. Clause 12.—Interpretation of Acts of Assembly and Ordinances after abolition of provinces. Mr. STOUT pointed out what he considered a technical error. Mr. MURRAY proposed an amendment in the second sub-section, which was lost on the The Hon. Mr. STAFFORD suggested that oensideration of the clause should be postponed. An amendment proposed by Government was carried. Further discussion took place with regard to the third section of clause 12, empowering the Government to appoint newspapers gazettes. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the Government did not contemplate, doing away with Government gazettes. He could not therefore accept the amendment proposed. The sub-section was passed without amendment. Clause 13 was made the subject of free discussion. It provides for compensation to officers whose services may be dispensed with in consequence of the abolition of provinces.

Sir GEORGE GREY maintained that no distinction should be made between the General and Provincial servants. He proposed that the clause should be postponed for further consideration.

The Hon. Major ATKINSON pointed out that by the Civil Service Act, 1866, Provincial servants (if taken over by the General Government) would come within the meaning of the Act, and be on an equal footing with the General Government servants, and by the present Bill they would be taken over. Mr. O'CONOR proposed an amendment, that the terms of engagement of provincial civil servants should hold good when they were taken over by the General Government. Carried.

Mr. GEORGE MoLEAN moved an amendment, which was carried, to leave out the two last lines of clause 13, providing that a further sum should be paid to servants if discharged without three months' notice. Mr. T. L. SHEPHERD moved the addition of these words : " Provided always that all officers taken over by the General Government shall not be entitled to superanuation under the Civil Service Act of 1566." By doing so, he said, an expense would be entailed of £IOO,OOO. The Hon Major ATKINSON asked the hon. member to withdraw his amendment. He should be prepared to invite discussion on that point during the session. The present Bill did not provide for taking over provincial servants.

After tome further discussion, the Hon. Major Atkinson suggested that Mr. Shepherd should bring down his amendment as a new clause, which could be freely discussed. Mr. SHEPHERD withdrew the amendment on this understanding. Clause 13, as amended, was then passed.

Clause 14 provides for license fees, &c, under provincial laws, to be paid to municipalities and road boards. In answer to Mr. MONTGOMERY,

The Hon. Major ATKINSON said this clause would not he operative until the Bill came into operation.

Mr REID hoped some provision would be made for these sums being paid direct to the municipalities, instead of being sifted through the Colonial Treasury. This was simply a question of convenience. Mr. READER WOOD moved an amendment providing that the fees should be collected by the municipalities or road boards. The Hon. Major ATKINSON accepted the amendment. The Government had no desire to pass these amounts to the public account. Mr. J. SHEPHARD complained that by this clause the Government were enriching the towns at the expense of surrounding districts. The Government having signified their willingness to adopt Mr. Wood's suggestion, no amendment was put. Some amendments having been made in the second paragraph, the clause was allowed to stand part of the Bill. At this stage there were cries of adjourn, and proceed. The Hon. Major ATKINSON deciding to be guided by the voices, the question was put, and the majority were in favor of adjournment.

The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Tuesday. The House then adjourned.