THE ABOLITION QUESTION.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4500, 23 August 1875, Page 2

THE ABOLITION QUESTION.

MEETING AT THE HUTT. According to announcement, a meeting of the Hutt electors was held on Saturday evening at the Masonic Hall, Lower Hutt. The railway authorities had arranged for a special train to and from the Hutt ; and the down train started about seven o’clock, Sir George Grey, K.C.8., M.H.R., and Mr. J. Sheehan, M.H.R., being amongst the passengers. At the Hutt terminus Sir George Grey was received by Mr. Fitzherbert, Mr. Buckley, and other gentlemen of standing in the district. On the platform there was also a large crowd of Maoris and Europeans who, so soon as Sir George alighted, commenced cheering lustily. All were provided with torches, for the purpose of forming a torchlight procession. Apparently these had either been filled with water, or the Maoris, despising the well-arranged European plans, preferred brandishing the unlighted torches war-club fashion, to the injury of the skulls of those unfortunates who ventured too close. Sir George was escorted to the residence of the Hon. Mr. Fitzherbert, and after a short rest, during which time the torches were lighted, proceeded in a torchlight procession to the hall. The room was immediately filled to excess, and the proceedings were commenced by Mr. Beetham being voted to the chair.

The Chairman read the advertisement convening the meeting, and also the requisition to Sir George Grey, and then suggested that the latter gentleman should address the meeting, remarking that it must be a source of pleasure not only to Sir George but to all people in the district to see that so cordial a reception had been accorded him, for whatever differences of opinion might exist, every one must respect him.

Mr. Rush wanted to know why Sir George Grey and Mr. Eitzherbert had come to give opinions on abolition. Every one knew what their opinions were -without their speaking. The electors wanted to hear someone else. (Cheers and hisses.) The Chairman : A requisition was sent.

Mr. Rush : I’d like to hear some cross-fire. It’s no good asking for what we already know. At least I know it. The Chairman : You are not the audience. (Cheers.) Mr. Rush : No, I am only one humble individual (So you are Jack Hoorah !) But that is my reason for asking you. (Uproar.)

The Chairman ; I think the audience is entitled to hear the gentlemen. It is merely a question of precedence, which shall address the meeting first, as Mr. Eitzherbert was first asked.

Mr. Eitzherbert waived any right he might have had, And the Chairman called upon Sir George Grey. (Cheers.) Mr. Everist : I think we ought to allow a certain time for each speaker. What do you say, chairman ? The Chairman : I am not sure that it is my province to decide that matter. It is for the meeting to decide whether it shall be so. If the meeting generally approves of it we will have it.

Mr. Mullins ; I think that to ask gentlemen down here and tell them they shan’t speak afterwards is insulting them. (Cheers.)

Mr. Kush : At the same time we know what our Superintendent is. He will keep us for twenty-four hours if we let him go on.' No, I am for allowing them a fixed time to speak.

The meeting had treated each of the speakers to a large measure of cheers and hisses, but now several of the more prominent electors began to exhibit unusual exuberance of spirits, and the noise became deafening. The Chairman (after being pulled by ,the coat-tails several times) now rose, and in a tremulous voice said: We must have order. Mr. Kush ; Quite right, but The Chairman : We are not going to have the meeting occupied by yon all the evening. (Cheers.)

Mr. Kush : Oh no, of course not. But I want to know how long these gentlemen are going to speak. There’s that Superintendent, you know he’ll go on for a month, and if we keep it up after twelve it will be very wicked. (Loud laughter.) [The speaker could not get any further, and when the confusion had somewhat subsided,] The Chairman called upon Sir George Grey. Sir George Grey then rose amid cheers, which were continued for four or five minutes. He said : Don’t let me be misunderstood in the position I occupy here to-night. I really believe that little dependence is to be placed upon votes taken under the excitement of public meetings, and that the real reference which ought always to be made on subjects of this kind is to the electors at the hustings, after full consideration of the question. But no doubt public meetings are very useful in one way, because they bring before the people questions to be considered and discussed, and in that discussion a great many new lights are thrown upon the subjects ; and, again, probably after meetings of this kind people discuss questions in private, and become acquainted with them, which otherwise they would not have done. Then when the general election comes on the people know something of affairs, and we shall have something like an expression of public opinion in a fair and just way. You must recollect also that Parliament is at the present moment sitting, and that as one of the representatives of the people it is my duty to point out the truth, and try to influence Parliament on the subjects which come before it, and that all I can do is done there. However, to a certain extent I am the father of this district, and I come now to give the opinion for which you have asked, just as a father would give advice to his children—(cheers) —and do not wish to give that opinion in any way to influence your decision or in any way to interfere with your judgment. I say to a certain extent I may be considered the father of this district, because many of you know that in the early days of the colony the inhabitants of the Hutt had to fight their way through great tribulation. There were misunderstandings between the two races in different parts of the country. Natives who tried to obtain money to which they were proved afterwards not to be entitled to, oame down and interfered with natives of this district who were friendly to us, and fought with them. At that time the Hutt was nearly destroyed. Almost every house was burnt, and the settlers did not know what to do. I recollect one day seeing the whole of the inhabitants in retreat. I do not mean they were running away, but they were putting their women and children in a place of safety, after which they went back and fought for their homes and regained possession of the soil for their sons. There was a long period of these trials and difficulties, and the troubles were not limited to tho annoyances of the natives. You must recollect the Hutt was almost inaccessible from Wellington. If anyone had said at that time that I should come here to-night by special train, he would have been laughed at. However, these difficulties were overcome. First a road was made to Wellington, then a road up to the Upper Hutt, and after a long series ol years,

during which many able and eminent men came forward—chief amongst whom was Major Richmond, now in Wellington—the natives were pacified. Those men I have spoken of had much to do in trying to settle the difficult questions which arose ; in fact, I have no hesitation in saying that at that time there were more difficult questions to dispose of in a single month than the Government of New Zealand now have to dispose of in twelve months ; therefore, those men who used their best energies to help you in such times deserve your best thanks and gratitude now. Well, I have known the settlers here for such a long period of time ; I have known many of those who have departed to another world, and for 'whom I entertained the strongest and greatest possible friendship ; I have known the father's of many of those whom I see present to-night, and the closest attachment has existed between their families and myself. Having these feelings, it is no wonder that I take extraordinary interest in this place, and never can forget the kindnesses which I have here received, and I that feel deeply the compliment and honor you have paid me in asking me to come here to-night, and the kind reception you have given me. (Loud cheering.) I hoped that the people here, who have established their homes amidst difficulties such as I have briefly glanced at, would become the forefathers of a worthy progeny, and I bad in my mind one firm people being planted here, to assist in difficulties then - fellow-men; taught to know, their position in the world, and to know what services they should render to others; taught to consider what is for their own benefit and the benefit of the State in which they live ; practised in making laws for the government of themselves and fellow-citizens; trained in political life and animated by political fire ; that their intellect and energies would be properly developed. X firmly believe that an education of this kind is the best possible education, after religious education, that can be given to the mind. It teaches a man to respect himself and to respect his fellow-man, and when he knows that however poor he is he may be chosen to make the laws of his country, it forces him to consider many questions which otherwise he would not have thought of. Then again, what an increased interest the parents take in a son when they think that however lowly his birth or poor his fortune in the first instance, he may live to rise to the highest position in the State that there is no bar of rank, no inferiority Springing from moderate fortune, to shut him out from the highest position in the country. What must be the feelings of a parent so contemplating a promising son ? Igo further, and say to every girl who fixes her affections upon some deserving man, it is something to tMnl- of that she may one day have the pleasure of seeing him rise to the greatest honors in the country in which he lives. Well, I desired to obtain for the inhabitants of this valley, the inhabitants of this province, together with all other provinces in New Zealand, the privilege which I regarded as inestimable —of exercising these functions which I have pointed out to you. I knew the bravery of the population, and that their interest was the interest of the country. I knew it was desirable to promote self-esteem, and knew it was their desire to increase in knowledge, and to know all that was worth knowing in the world. I knew the capacity and worth of their children, and I believed them able to raise us and future generations to a high condition, and to make this colony a great, a happy, and a prosperous country, and give it an imperishable renown. X believed that in time a great nation would spring from the loins of the people of New Zealand, and that the nation of the South would in time become one of the greatest upon earth. (Cheers.) Those were the ideas I had in introducing amongst you the institutions which now prevail. ° I believed that having secured such institutions for you —that is, institutions which would enable you to govern yourselves—that yon would show what men can do when such •opportunities are placed at their command; and you have shown it nobly. Surrounded with difficulties of all kinds—huge mountains, dense forests, and hostile native races—in past years you have worked till yon have raised this province and this country to what it now is. Every one of my aspirations have been fulfilled, and all I have to say is, I hope you appreciate these things. You have appreciated them in the past and you may easily think that it is a matter of the utmost concern to me as to what yon will do in the future, what form of institutions you -null have if you are pleased to change the present. I can but advise you, and after your will is known act upon it, and use my influence to belp make the new one as perfect a machine as possible. But meanwhile I watch with the utmost concern, because I know the value of wbat you are giving away, and I know that your whole future depends upon the action you now take. Therefore I say let’s step slowly and with caution, so that we may wisely determine what we are going to do. X advise simply in this respect as a father advising his children, and say let us hold fast to what we have until we are certain of something better. (Cheers.) Remember, you should think and act cautiously, because you should recollect that you are only the trustees for your children in the future — (cheers) —that the powers you have are not to be used solely for your own benefit and just as you like. It is for you to use them certainly, but you must use them not only for yourself but for posterity also—(hear, bear) —you must not be selfish, and to gain some individual advantage sacrifice the heritage of your children. You must recollect that. That is my advice so far, I tell you to contemplate the results before you part with institutions which at. least have never injured you, and for the introduction of which I cannot reproach myself. (Cheers.) Now I turn to the consideration of the Bill itself, and again, as a father, I turn to speak to my children and give my actual thoughts as they occur to my mind at the present moment. I have told yon of the institutions under which you have lived and under which you have prospered, and now I tell you that this measure asks yon at once and instantly to give all these institutions up. It asks you to say •whether instead of electing your own superintendents or governors, who may be the children hereafter of some of you here, that henceforth you will allow the Government to nominate those superintendents and force them upon yon, that henceforth your provinces shall be called provincial districts. You are asked to say also whether you wish your fellowcitizens to make laws for you, or whether you prefer the Governor at Government House, with the Ministry of the day, to issue orders in council which shall be laws for you. (No, no, and uproar.) Laws not made in public by the Legislative Council or the House of Representatives, but made in a private room ■where no citizens will be present at the discussion of them, and nothing will be known about them till they are inexistence. Now this is the form of government you are asked to agree to in the place of that which you now have. Every officer is to he nominated by the Government. The whole machinery of the present government is to be upset, and all powers -are to pass into the hands of the Government and its officers. During a life in a great measure devotedto thestndy of history and intercourse with great men, I have never known of such a form of government in the world—(cheers) —and I certainly did not expect to find such a form of government proposed, nor do I expect to see an Anglo-Saxon race assent to it. (Cheers.) You are told that this form of government only necessarily lasts for twelve months ; but no Parliament—as anybody who knows anything of Parliaments and party struggles, the actions of party leaders, the possibilities of prorogations, the delays and contests upon other subjects—l say no Parliament can promise that it will pass any particular law in future. No man can promise such a thing. If yon once place arbitrary power in the hands of a Government, it wiU keep possession of it notwithstanding any promise to the contrary. I may be incredulous, too incredulous, but I am so incredulous that I cannot believe any of the promises made by the Government will be performed if these institutions are swept away. I cannot believe that.

Mr. Kush : Why ? Sir Geokge Grey ; I believe it is impossible. I feel certain that the contests of parties which will arise before long will prevent it.

Mr. Rush : Then you have no faith in the honor of Parliaments and politicians.. . Voices : Turn him out. Sir George Grey : On the contrary, I believe they do. I object not as a politician hut as a friend. I would not undertake to effect such changes myself, because if I promised such things as are promised you I should promise under the conviction that I might be compelled to break the promises so made. Do I make myself clear now ? Mr. Rdsh ; Yes.

Sir Geouo.e Grey : I was going on to say that the desire of the people as to the passing of the Bill throughout the country has not been ascertained. Now, where a desire exists on one side to deprive the people of what they have, I think those who hold something which is to he taken away from them should be allowed to make the best bargain for themselves. You will see that these promises are such throughout as to justify me in thinking them rather mad. You are told, for instance, that if you raise certain things, in proportion to what you raise so much in addition will be given you from the Consolidated Revenue. Now, what we understand by this is, that if you tax yourselves for so much, so much will be returned of what has already been taken from you. It is still your own money coming back to you. I think myself that such is an exceedingly bad principle. The Government raise from each of you, every man, woman, and child, something like £4 10s. per year, which simply means that the father of a family of six people has to pay taxes to the extent of £25 a year. You will get so much of that given back to you, but .what I contend is this, that if it is not wanted for the State it is a pity to take It from you by taxation. You must understand that the process of collecting it is an expensive one, and that much of the money sticks to the various hands through which it passes. If a change is to be effected, and something is to be given to the people, what presents itself to my mind is, that some substantial benefit should be conferred on them. For example : There are a large number of gentlemen who from the Crown lands of New Zealand are drawing large fortunes, who reside in England and contribute notbiug to the taxes of this country, while I and numbers of other people from England, residing in New Zealand, have a considerable number of taxes to pay in England, besides contributing' in New Zealand, and we pay them for the benefit of those gentlemen at Home. Let us so appoint it that by a property tax we make those who draw large sums of money from us contribute in fair proportion to the revenue of the colony. Then we should really have something to give back to road boards and the people, something not taken from their own pockets, but which they have a right to notwithstanding. If you consider for one moment the enormous sums of money expended on roads and bridges and various public works, on which you and your children will have to pay principle and interest, and which give an enormous value to the property of those gentlemen residing in England, surely we ought to see in any arrangement which is again to be made, that we get some modicum of the benefits these people receive. When I came out to the colonies in the first instance, I believed in the establishment of a people such as I have described to you, owners of property, with privileges such as I have spoken of—of governing themselves and choosing their own officers. And then I thought to myself of the men, the first-comers, who had established small farms for themselves under great difficulties, and had fought manfully with the trials and hai'dships incidental to early colonial life ; and I said to myself their reward should be tbat hereafter their children should colonise in their turn, and, spreading over the interior, they should take up small runs, and that the men who got these small runs should have the reward of seeing every child they had established in comfort after them. (Applause.) But, in point of fact, the enormous mass of the Crown lands has passed into very few hands indeed. One man holds an enormous quantity, another man holds an enormous quantity, and the result is an incalculable loss to the community at large. If cut up into smaller portions these lands would hold four or five fold the amount of cattle, and farm produce would fetch a much higher price. Therefore I say if we are to have a great change, let us in some manner provide for the breaking up fairly at a future time of these enormous runs into such portions as will benefit an enormous number of families and human beings. I have just glanced at these few questions, and you will now understand why my earnest advice to you is this, that you should not act unconstitutionally or improperly, but petition the Legislature of your country to ask that sufficient delay should be afforded to enable the inhabitants of New Zealand carefully to consider what change they will have before they make one at all Now, I wish to speak to you in no spirit of adulation of myself, but I will ask you this ; have not I, from my education and opportunity, had great facilities for considering the subject upon which I am addressing you to-night ? (Hear, hear.) Well, I assure you, and I speak as a father to you, that having given it every consideration that my knowledge and experience have enabled me, I have not been able to make up my mind on the subject. The question is of too great magnitude for me to understand in so short a time. I could not undertake to decide on it, say for a period of at least four or five months. If I camiot do it myself, I am at a loss to conceive how tne inhabitants of New Zealand generally can in a few weeks come to a decision on the matter. (Hear, hear.) I have witnessed the evils which sprung from forms of government in Europe, have seen many millions of people plunged into hopeless poverty from their birth to old age, and have longed for the establishment of such a system as would effectually prevent the possibility of such disastrous consequences arising. I have now, as a friend, said all I can on the subject of the past, and what, under the circumstances, X was able to obtain for you. As for the future, you must work out your own destinies. I wish you to determine on what form of government you desire. Once the people of the colony have fixed upon their desires, however adverse to my own views, I will lay aside every feeling of disappointment and sorrow, and will still work to my utmost to render it a source of happiness to yourselves and those who shall come after you. Mr. Fitzherbekt said : I shall not trouble you at any length this evening, if for no other reason, certainly for a selfish reason. I feel very fatigued, having for the last week undergone considerable mental toil. At the same time, in deference to your request, as the constituents who elected me to represent you in the Parliament of New Zealand, I came, and take this opportunity of thanking you very much for many marks of kindness and consideration and confidence. They are not lost upon me, ‘ I have labored, and do conscientiously, to the best of my ability, for what I believe to bo your interests; and in doing so, have not been forgetful of the interests of the whole colony. And that is about the essence of what I would say to you to-nigbt. Do not in a question of this sort merely take a narrow one-sided view. It is not merely for this valley, the benefit of the whole country should be considered. There is a very great temptation in the discussion of this subject to look too much at home, and to view the question as to how it will affect number one and those immediately around us. I would give you the same kind of advice as is given to us when we sit as jurymen, to discard in our consideration everything excepting the question before us on its merits, upon the broad principle as to how it will affect others. That is the principle which I do say we ought to go upon. Still it would be perfectly hopeless for mo to attempt, within the limits that I have prescribed to myself to address you, to touch upon more than the outlines of the bearings of this great subject. I do not propose to do so, but I propose to impress upon you the principles which should guide us in coming to a decision on the present question. If I were the greatest Centralist that New Zealand possesses I would give you the same advice that I am now about to give you. We should take time and ponder over it, and hear all that is to be said upon one side and the other, but not be hurried and forced into a decision. Through a

somewhat lengthened life and: a considerable acquaintance with public matters I have endeavored to practice this : to permit my neighbor and fellow-citizen to hold opinions and to pay respect to him for holding them, notwithstanding that they may bo diametrically opposed to my own. I am ready to argue a measure and to be persuaded, but claim for myself perfect freedom of discussion and opinion. Now, I ask whether any man, putting aside the merit of the question, would presume to say that within a week, a mouth, two months, or whatever might be the duration of the present session, it is possible to fathom all the depths and bearings of a great question like this. ’Therefore, I say, from such reasoning as that set your faces firmly against any such measure being forced upon you until you in common with the other citizens have had an opportunity of turning the proposals this way, that way, and every way, looking at it on all sides, and have had it explained to you by every shade of opinion, and then yourselves as men may vote for those who please you. To give up those institutions which you have, without possessing a knowledge of that which it is the intention to substitute tor them, would be one of the most incomprehensible acts that ever any body of Englishmen in any country were guilty of. I shall be ready at the proper time to meet you, to talk with you, and to reason with you, and to give my reasons for the faith that is in me- and I tell you I have a faith in me—and this is the last word I will say to you : now, do not be rash, and because you may have had occasion to find fault with many things that have occurred in local affairs, do not be misled into destroying that, which once lost I do not believe you will ever get back again—your liberty ; and if you did get it back again, the struggle would be a frightful one, and no one could say through what bloodshed. (Laughter.) lam not speaking of to-day, but I assure you that I believe the struggle would end iu civil war. I do believe that there are some of you young enough to see that if the sole government of this country is attempted to be absorbed into one place at Wellington, other parts of New Zealand will wrest it from them by force. (The speaker resumed his seat amid cheers.) Mr. Coulson rose to make a few remarks. He did not think it necessary to go into details, but in himself was thoroughly satisfied which was the best course for the Parliament to pursue. He should be happy to discuss those details in a debating club, and would challenge all comers provided he was allowed to take up provincialism. (Cheers and laughter.) It appeared to him as if the Provincial Government gave him three-eighths of his wages for his own use, while the General Government intended to give him only five-sixteenths, for there must he increased taxation. He did not believe in losing a good thing till he could get a better. The proposal of the Government was just the same as asking a person who had a good set of teeth to have them extracted, promising to give in return artificial teeth, and food which would particularly suit those artificial teeth. But he would rather keep his good teeth and choose his food. As regards the nominated officers, that heat him outright. No doubt there had been bad administration on the part of the provinces, hut if they did wrong the people could get at them. Mr. Everist ascended the platform, and began to state his colonial experience since 1851. He proposed to give a detailed account of his journeys from one province to another, interspersing the relation with anecdotes, but the meeting, believing it bad been called to consider political matters, declined to listen to the interesting narrative, and in a few moments there was a great uproar. At the request of the chairman the speaker promised to keep to the point, and said he believed in abolishing the whole of the provinces in the colony, and allowing the people of New Zealand to become united. (Uproar for three or four minutes.) It would have to come to that. He respected Sir George Grey, but he was on the wrong side when he began talking about “ resisting to the death ” and “ benefiting their children’s children’s children.” (Cheers, hisses, and confusion.) If Sir George Grey wanted to do any good he should have come out ten years ago. It was too late now; provincialism must go. If Sir George Grey had come out ten years ago he might have done some good, and the colony would not now be in the position it was. Mr. Valentine : Sit down.

Mr. Everist: You should not interrupt. I have got a resolution to propose. It is this, — “It is expedient that the Abolition of the Provinces Bill and Local Government Bill should become law during the present session, and our representative, the Hon. Air. Fitzherbert, is requested to support the Bilk in all stages.” This caused great commotion, and numerous demands were made for the ejection of the speaker. Mr. Everist could get no further, so he shook his fist and retired. The motion did not find a seconder.

Mr. Mullins opposed the resolution. He said no doubt that with provincial institutions mistakes were occasionally made, but that was no reason why they should he swept away. No body did all right and no wrong, and the General Government had made quite as many mistakes as the Provincial Governments. The speaker then referred to Mr. Stafford, and said he did not believe in him. According to him, if we did not have abolition we should never get a national spirit, and should never advance. But that was not the first prophesy that gentleman had made. He had been in the habit of prophesying for years, but the truth was his prophesys were always disproved by results; particularly was this to. be seen during the Maori war ; and again he had been wrong as Mr. Vogel’s policy. [Here a long interruption occurred, several gentlemen in the hall being desirous of discussing Sir Julius Vogel’s qualifications. One, who said he had worked with Sir Julius as a digger, and lived in the same tent, entered into a biography of Sir Julius, and wound up by asking how it was one digger could get on and another could not. Another gentleman here jumped up and said Mr. Vogel was a good man, and further remarked that anybody who said to the contrary was a . Kach party had his adherents, and finally Mr. Mullins settled the matter by advancing to the front of the stage, and pointing to the ladder by which the stage is reached, said, “To any man who starts there, the bottom, and comes here, the top, I say ‘ more power to you !’ ” I say Vogel is an able man ; if ho was a digger more credit to him.” This expression of opinion in metaphor was received with loud cheering, and after the gentleman who had started the digger theory once more hiccupped “The was a digger,” Mr. Mullins proceeded.] Mr. Stafford had also said the Provincial Councils were fit for nothing but to pass Scab Acts. Who managed the police, then ? There was no more difficult question than the management of the police, and no question which more nearly concerned the liberty of the subject ; yet this was well managed, and it showed that provincial institutions were all that was required. He proposed,—“ That this meeting is of opinion that any change in the Constitution should be decided by the people at the next general election, and not by an expiring Parliament.” (Loud cheers.) Mr. Push said there were a good lot of people here—(loud applause)—and they all seemed to be imbued with provincialism. He believed that Sir George was brave in the Council and brave in the field, but he was wrongly allied. Mr. Kush then proceeded to give the meeting his opinion of Dr. Featherston, and it was not a complimentary one, stating that ho had withheld the endowment to volunteers which had been sanctioned by the Imperial Parliament, the General Government, and the Provincial Council of Wellington, and that lie, as Superintendent, had withheld it from them. Had they (it is presumed the gentleman alluded to the volunteers) been Frenchmen they would not have stood it. Then came Mr. Fitzherbsrt, and the speaker was understood to draw a parallel between him and Oliver Cromwell. He (the speaker) looked upon the Superintendent as the despot in the City of Wellington ; it might not be from the evil of the provincial institution, but it had been always so. They had had elections and elections, but the Superintendent had always done what he liked. He was sorry to have to make these disparaging remarks of Superintendents, Sir George Grey being one,

because Sir George Grey was a nobleman, and he (the speaker) had taught his children to revere him because he had seen him in the field, and knew what he was. (A voice ; Too much of the soft-soap, Jack Ruth.) When you give soft-soap you expect to get something for it. (Well done, Jack Rush.) The people were foolish to submit to the despotism spoken of, and he attributed their passivonoss under tyranny to the fact that there were too many German pot-bellies amongst them, there was too much of the Saxon element in the people. He believed the resolution.would bo carried, because the meeting was packed. Provincial Councils were a mockery. The resolutions brought down by Vogel for endowments to denominational schools had been voted against by his friend, Mr. Buckley. (Mr. Buckley : No.) And the grant to charity sisters had been withheld by the Provincial Council, because they were dressed in black.

Mr. Buckley said he had had no intention of addressing the meeting when he came there, but allusion having been made to his name in a most unwarrantable manner, he felt impelled to say something. The question was of such great importance that he trusted the meeting w-ould not be influenced by the statements of any people who chose to come upon that stage for the purpose of indulging in buffoonery, but that they would treat the matter as it affected their own interests. (Mr. Hush : Thank you, Mr. Buckley.) As to the Abolition Bill, he had been totally unable to understand it, and he was quite that meeting could not. The question, as it appeared to him, was not one of abolition, but of taking away the rights of the people, which they -would find no little difficulty in getting back again. It was all very well to say the Provincial Councils had not done right ; but let him ask them had the General Government done right ? They might by the same reasoning say that because certain road boards had not done right they should bo abolished also. Questions of this sort were not to be decided in an hour, and were not to be brought up in a tiff by the General Government. It was for the people to choose whether they would have one or the other form of government. They were told that they were to have the finest Constitution ever heard of or known. If such was the case, however, if the change was to be for the welfare of the people, why, in the name of Providence, would they not refer it to the people, and let them decide on it at the next election. They had more right to a voice in the matter than nine-tenths of the General Assembly, who might not have a chance of entering that Assembly again. He had been carrying about in his pockets the Abolition and Bocal Government Bills, and had looked over them with the eyes of one who was accustomed to study such things, but had been totally unable to understand them, and yet they wore asked to abolish the provinces. Now, ho would ask them had they ever studied their position ? Could they presume to understand those Bills ? He would say, let them have something better, and let them not be deprived of their rights without having a voice in the matter. [Mr. Buckley here threw the Bills to one of the audience who had expressed himself as being acquainted with his position as to abolition/] He would ask them to study the two pieces of paper he had given to that gentlemen, and consider carefully what they were going to do. Mr. Rush : Are you not Provincial Solicitor? Mr. Buckley: lam.

Mr. Rush : That accounts for it._ Mr. Buckley; And I also received an intimation that I should remain so for the remainder of my life if I chose to he a good boy. (Mr. Buckley then resumed his seat.) At this stage of the proceedings, Mr. Beetham left the chair, to propose a resolution, Mr. Valentine taking his place. Mr. Beetham, after some preliminary remarks outside the question under discussion, said the question was not whether provincialism should be abolished (that the colony was pretty well agreed upon), but whether abolition should take place at once, or be put off till next session. Why should it bo deferred ? If the Bills were to be gone over by everybody clause by clause, they would never get to an end. The resolution he had to propose was to this effect, —“That this meeting approves of the endeavor of the Government to carry through the Abolition of Provinces Bill this session.” ' ■ ; The amendment and resolution were then put, the latter being carried, only six voting for the amendment.

A vote of thanks was accorded to the chairman, and the meeting then gave three cheers for Sir George Grey and Mr. Pitzherbert, and continued to cheer themselves for some time, the Maori section particularly, who had during the course of the evening been most demonstrative in their approval of everything, and every shade of sentiment expressed.