PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4493, 13 August 1875, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, August 12. The Council assembled at the usual hour. PAPERS. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN laid upon the table certain papers. petition-. The Hon. Mr. MENZIES, iu moving that the petition of William Baldwin and Noel Lee Buchanan be referred to a select committee to consider and report upon, such committee to be appointed by ballot, said that neither Capt. Fraser, who made the charge in that Council, nor Dr. Buchanan, against whom the charge was directed (reported Hansard, p. 477), are members of the Council, and consequently any action taken by the Council would be taken i* the absence of the parties. He might aid the Council in forming an opinion if he laid before them some of the circumstances of the case. The brother-in-law of Dr. Buchanan, a Mr. Hartness, while a medical student at the University of London had an attack of typhoid fever, which resulted in effusion of the brain and partial paralysis. He came out to New Zealand, and invested his property judiciously. He made over his property to trustees for his sole benefit during his lifetime, and after his death, to his sister. It appears that afterwards his mind became so deranged that his friends caused him to be placed in a lunatic asylum, where his comforts were provided for in a way suitable to a gentleman in his position. It was in reference to this gentleman that Captain Fraser had made certain serious charges against Dr. Buchanan in that Council. It appeared to him to be nothing but just that the parties aggrieved should be allowed an opportunity of repelling these charges in the way sought by the petition, especially a 3 they were shut out from any legal remedy. After some discussion, by which it appeared that the Council considered that as the principal parties were.absent, and as the Council's opinions on the matters contained in the petition would appear in Hansard, it was decided that the Hon. Mr. Menzies' motion for the withdrawal of the petition should be adopted. The petition was withdrawn accordingly. THE NEW ZEALAND PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH BILL. The New Zealand Presbyterian Church Bill was read a second time. i ANATOMY BILL. ! The Hon. Dr.POLLEN.inmoving thesecond reading of this Bill, said that this Bill was really a rescript of the English Act, which provided, under certain conditions, that lunatic asylums, gaols, and hospitals might furnish subjects for dissection, and that these dissections should be conducted with decency and due reverence for the dead. The Bill passed the second reading. QUEENSTOWN WATERWORKS BILL. The Queenstown Waterworks Bill passed the second reading. THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH OF OTAGO INCORPORATION BILL. The Hon. Mr. MENZIES, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said that the object of the Bill was to enable the Presbyterian Church of Otago to hold property as a corporation, and to give it a legal existence. The Bill passed the second reading. PROTECTION OF ANIMALS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The Hon. Dr POLLEN said, in moving the second reading of the Bill, that it was proposed to limit the hunting for seals to the months of June, July, and August. In the seal fishery at the southern extremity of New Zealand it had been estimated that some £SOOO worth of these animals were wantonly destroyed during the year. The Bill passed the second reading. IMMIGRATION EXPENDITURE INDEMNITY BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN moved the second reading of this Bill, and pointed out that the Bill sought to indemnify the Colonial Treasurer and other officers against deficiency as shown in Financial Statement brought down to June 30,1875. The Bill was read the second time. UNIVERSITY OF OTAGO SITE BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said that its object was to give a marketable title to the land on which the University now stands. The Bill passed the second reading. UNIVERSITY OF OTAGO SITE EXCHANGE BILLThe Hon. Mr. MENZIES moved the second reading of this Bill, and said that its object was to authorise the University to acquire by exchange a site near the Museum, both pieces of land in question being of about the same area. The Bill passed the second reading. IN COMMITTEE. The Council then resolved itself into committee on the New Zealand Presbyterian Church Bill. The Council adjourned to Friday (this day) at the usual hour. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, August 12. The Speaker took the chair at two o'clock. PETITIONS. A number of petitions were presented. NOTICES OF MOTION. Various notices of motion were given. Sir GEORGE GREY gave notice of his intention to move that all Orders in Council relating to confiscated lands, hereafter issued by the Government, or issued since 20th July, 1575, be null and void. QUESTION. Mr. W. KELLY asked Ministers for information as to whether the steamer Eangatira was supposed to visit Gisborne and deliver mails, weekly, as there had been frequent complaints of delay and irregularity. The Hon. Mr. REYNOLDS could not at once supply definite information. From what he remembered of "the contract his impression was that the steamer was supposed to pay fortnightly visits to the district. TAXATION ON NECESSARIES. Mr. MURRAY moved,—That as the change in the mode of taxation from measurement to ad valorem duties has resulted in a very large increase to the revenue ; that as the Government, when proposing the change, stated that an increase of revenue was neither intended nor required ; therefore, unless the increasing necessities of the Government require this increased taxation, this House is of opinion that the duties now levied upon unrefined sugar and other articles of common necessity should be reduced. He spoke at some length iu support of his motion, and proceeded to show that the burden of taxation fell more heavily upon the people of New Zealand than those of other countries, falling upon the poor and working classes. He hoped that the Government would see their way to reduce the tax on unrefined sugar, as an encouragement to industry. The Hon. Mr. REYNOLDS replied. He need hardly say that the Government were not prepared to make any alterations in the present tariff. The ad valorem mode had only been in existence two years, and he thought it had worked very well indeed, and no complaint had reached them as to excessive taxation from any part of the colony ; besides, although his hoii. friend had stated that the Colonial Treasurer had said in 1872 that it might be necessary ultimately to consider a reduction in the tariff, yet he had not made any promise to the country that he would do so. Moreover, the position of things had changed ; and he thought it would be impolitic to make any interference affecting the revenue until the public works were completed. After the railways were completed, the question of making a change in the tariff could be gone into. Under these circumstances, he trusted that the hon. mover would withdraw his resolution, autl he hoped the good sense of members generally would lead them to deprecate any alteration at present. _ Mr. G. McLEAN thought it a matter of little consequence whether or not the hon. member for Bruce withdrew his motion, inasmuch as New Zealand was not likely to be troubled with any unrefined sugar. Mr. WHITE suggested that the hon. member should put his motion in more grammatical form.

Mr. MACANDREW expressed sympathy with the lion, member for Bruce, and would be happy to support a motion of the kind, brought up in another form. He should like to have seen some suggestion as to a reduction of taxation on articles of general necessity. Sir GEORGE GREY considered the hon. member for Bruce deserved the thanks of the country for having introduced this matter. The Government could take no more wise or statesmanlike step than forthwith to reduce the expenditure, and to take care that the duties now levied on articles of common necessity should be reduced, and in some instances done away with altogether; and he could only say of the present motion that if the hon. gentleman would bring it forward in some more definite shape, be would give it all the support he could, as well as his thanks to the mover.

Mr. O'CONOR said the motion, being contingent on the opinion of the Government, almost shelved itself, but he would favor a resolution that proposed to reduce the tax on the necessaries of life. He looked upon the present duties, such as that levied on flour, as a disgrace to the country. He thought that provision should be made for enabling the thousands of immigrants introduced to the country to obtain their food at a cheap rate, and the taxation should be so regulated as not to press most heavily on the working classes. Mr. McGLASHAN said the preparation of su<*ar was not likely to become an industry in this colony, as it could be carried on so much cheaper at the Fijis and elsewhere. Mr. XiTJCKXE, in speaking of the general question as to the advisability of making a reduction in the taxation, said the effect of taxation was not felt so much here as at Home. The high rate of house rent was what pressed on the poorer classes, and he maintained that to make a change in the tariff at the present time would be extremely detrimental to the policy of public works. Mr. HELD said the possibility of refining sugar becoming an industry had been entertained, and the Government had held out hopes that they would impose a differential duty on unrefined sugar, He thought it would be wise on the part of £he Government to hold out inducements for the introduction of such industries.

The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the Government had seen the folly of lowering the duty on articles as an encouragement to enterprise; they would do better to give direct bonuses, and know what they were doing. He admitted that the revenue could bear a reduction on many articles to a small extent —that the hon. gentlemen 'could see by the financial statement, although the leaders of the Opposition did not believe any reduction could be made, and could not, therefore, support a motion having that object in view. But, as he took it, the country at the present time stood in this position : they were now engaged in prosecuting different works of enormous extent, giving great promise, and they had begun to give returns in a manner which surprised many, but were not paying full interest because they were not completed, and it would be extremely unadvisable to reduce the taxation until they were completed. Besides, great constitutional changes were now pending, and it would be far better to settle that question at once, and consider the present one next session, when it could be placed on a better footing. By making it a general question the country would derive much greater benefit than by taking it in detail in this way. Mr. BEE"VES said the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer did not go far enough. He might have told them why the present was not a convenient time for considering a reduction in taxation. He might have told them that in a very short time the country would have to pay one million a year for interest on the public debt; he might have told them that there were, comparatively speaking, very few miles of railway opened; that the Government would have largely to increase their vote, and that it was probable the Government would have to come to that House for a proportionate increase on the cost of their construction. The railways could not, he believed, be constructed under something like a million, or a million and a-half, over and above the present amount voted. It was idle to suppose that the revenue would be increased from that source. Again, he might have told them that the increase in the Customs revenue was owing to the enormous expenditure of borrowed money, and that when the supply ceased a falling off might be reasonably expected. For these reasons he might have told the hon. member for Bruce and the House that it was inconvenient at the present time for the Government to discuss the question of reducing the taxation. The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON' said he was utterly at a los3 to understand where the hon. gentleman had got his information. The Government were in a position to state within a very trifling amount what the cost of the works would be unless some wonderful and unforeseen change was to take place. Moreover, the cost of material and labor would rather decrease than increase, and the estimate wo\ild therefore decrease in proportion. As to the incompleted lines of railway, the Government could get eight per cent, on the cost of construction for that from Dunedin to Clutha, providing they would give a twenty years' lease of it, and the Christehurch and Timaru line was so far entirely successful. After some further remarks, Mr. Mdekat withdrew his motion. INJUET TO BOADS IN GLENOEE DISTBICT. Mr. MURRAY moved that all papers and correspondence in connection with injury done by railway works to roads in the Glenore district, be laid on the table. It was agreed to lay the papers asked for on the table. RAILWAY TO WAIKATO. Mr. T. KELLY moved that leave be given to lay on the table, the report of a survey exploring party sent out by the Provincial Government of Taranaki, to find a suitable route for a line of road or railway to the "Waikato district. Sir DONALD McLEAN agreed, and the motion was carried. THE LAND FU:ST>. Mr. "WOOD moved for a return showing the estimated amount of land fund to be received within each provincial district for the period from November Ist, 1875, to June 30th, 1876 ; together with the estimated amount to be raised in aid by the issue of Treasury bills, under the provisions of section 17 of the Abolition of Provinces Act. Also, the estimated amount for each provincial district chargeable against the land fund by subsections 1,2, and 3of section 16 of the said Act ; together with the estimated amount for departmental services, for local public works, and education, proposed to be charged against the land fund by the financial statement. The balance between these estimated receipts and charges to be struck, and the sum shown which will be available for the purposes mentioned in subsections 1 and 2 of section 18 of the said Act. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the Government would have no objection to supply the information as far as possible, and took occasion to refer to the manner in which the proposed changes would affect the province. Supposing they continued the present arrangement for this year, the provinces would receive from the consolidated fund about £277,000. They would also receive from local revenue a sum of £71,000, making a total of £348,000. But under the arrangement proposed by the Government they would receive, for provincial services taken over by the General Government and paid for out of the consolidated land fund £345,000, they would also receive in grants for road boards and municipalities a sum of £105,000, and for local public works £60,000, making a total of £510,000 from the Consolidated Eevenue. Thu 3 the provinces would, under the proposed arrangement, receive £90,000 over what they get under the present system. Mr. MACANDREW : And the worse for the colony. Mr. KEI.D : Where is the £90,000 to come from ?

The Hon. Major ATKINSON would refer the hon. gentleman to page 19 of the Financial Statement, where he would find the particulars in detail. If he doubted any of the figures, let him point them out, and he (the speaker) would explain them in detail.

Mr. WOOD said he had refrained from offering any remarks on moving hisresolution, because he thought it advisable to have the return placed before them before any financial debate took place. But the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer had taken advantage of the opportunity given him, to make a few remarks as to the financial bearing of the Abolition Bill, and, if he understood him correctly, he made out that by the present proposals the provincial districts would be gainers to something like £90,000 ; but out of the large sum that was to be spent on provincial districts was one of £315,000, for provincial services—that was, for departmental expenses, the maintenance of clerks and establishments. He (the speaker) had always st.id, and Mr. Vogel had said, when the proposals had been brought down last session, that one reason for abolition was that they would save largely by dispensing with those establishments, but, instead of a saving, larger sums were to be expended than formerly. Instead of a boon the change would be a curse.

The Hon. Major ATKINSON" : The hon. gentleman entirely misrepresents what I said. Here the discussion terminated. WHARF EXTENSION BILL. The Wellington Wharf Extension Bill was made an order of the day for Wednesday next. WASTE LANDS ACT. The Westland Waste Lands Act was read a second time and referred to the Waste Lands Committee. PALMER3TON WATERWORKS BILL. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. OTAGO WASTE LANDS ACT. The Speaker left the chair, and the House went into committee on the Otago Waste Lands Act, 1872, Amendment Bill, which was amended. The Southland Waste Lands Act 1872 Amendment Bill was considered in committee and amended. The first named Bill was reported, and its amendments ordered, for consideration on Wednesday. The latter Bill was reported, and passed its third reading. On the question of the House going into committee to consider of giving leave to bring in a Bill to provide for compensation in land to certain tramway owners in the province of Sir DONALD McLEAN asked that the matter might be postponed, in order that the Government might take the opinion of the law officers. The question was postponed, and made an order of the day for Wednesday. The House went into committee. The Napier Waterworks Loan Bill, and New River Harbor Board Bill, were agreed to. In the Wellington Harbor Reserve Sale Bill, on the suggestion of Mr. Andrew, the sum of £130,000 was fixed as the limit of borrowing power. The Wellington Market Reserve Sale Bill was agreed to. The Bills were reported, read a third time, and passed. The Campbelltown Athenaeum Bill, Auckland Institute Bill, and Auckland City Endowment and Reserves Bill passed their second reading. The House went into committee on The Marriage with a Deceased Wife's Sister Bill. At the main clause of the Bill Mr. Pearce proposed that the Chairman should leave the chair. On a division there were ayes 6 ; noes 26. There were 17 pairs. The Bill was agreed to, reported, read a third time, and passed. The Clutha River Board of Conservators Bill was -withdrawn, the Government undertaking to bring in a bill to effect the desired object. The Nelson City Loan Bill, and Anne Hood Grant Bill, were read a second time. The House went into committee on the Inspection of Machinery Bill, and Ford and Others Pension Bill. The Chairman reported to the House, and the Bills passed their third reading. The Stamp Fees Bill (to be committed), Registration of Mining Companies Validation Bill, and Land Transfer Act Amendment Bill (both to be read a second time), were made orders of the day for next (this) day. The Chubbin Sale of Land Authorisation Bill was read a second time. The House adjourned at half-past ten o'clock.