PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4475, 23 July 1875, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, July 22. The Council assembled at the usual hour. PRAYERS. The Speaker having taken his seat, prayers were read. PETITION. The Hon. Mr. MENZIES moved the reception of a petition regarding the disposal of Crown lands on deferred payments, which was carried. The Hon. the SPEAKER remarked that the petition was, contrary to rule, written, instead of being printed ; but it was agreed to waive the objection which might be taken to_ its reception on that ground. PAPERS. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN presented a number of papers connected with the Government of the colony. COMMITTEES. The following sessional committees were appointed :—Waste Lands Committee ; Joint Committee on Standing Orders on Private Bills; Committee of Selection on Private Bills; and a Joint Committee on Bills, to consider and report upon every Bill which may be referred to them by either House, upon the question whether it is a private Bill or not. The Hon. Mr. MANTELL was added to the Standing Orders Committee. THE MEMBERS' HEADS. Pursuant to notice given yesterday, the Hon. Mr. Chamberlin moved, —That it jje an instruction to the House Committee to adopt some means to prevent the cold air poming down upon the heads of the members of this Chamber. The hon. member withdrew his motion at the request of the Hon. Dr. Pollen, who represented that he had consulted the Hon. Mr. Richardson on the subject, and hoped to see it shortly remedied. THE ADDRESS IN REPLY. The Hon. Mr. G. R. JOHNSON moved the address in reply to the opening speech of his Excellency the Governor, and in doing so alluded to the present condition of the colony as being vigorous and progressive, the prosperity being felt throughout the length and breadth of the land. In noticing tho address he would be brief. In the first place it was satisfactory to know that his Excellency, in visiting the various important centres of population in the colony, had been enabled by personal observation to form a high opinion of the energy and enterprise which had done so much to develope the rich and fertile resources of this country. It was to this energy they had to look for the success of the public works, and for the increase to the revenue of the country. He did riot attribute the present prosperity solely to the initiation of the public works, prior to which an era of prosperity had set in, and the initiation of the scheme accelerated the progress. He then referred to that clause of the address in reply which referred to the friendly attitude of once hostile natives, and their disposition to take advantage of the benefits of civilisation. The meeting with Tawhiao was a most important event, and a matter for congratulation for the whole colony, and the province of Auckland in particular. The fact of a contract having been made for a mail service between this country and San Francisco, was also a matter which could not fail of giving satisfaction, it being most desirable that efficient communication between this colony and Europe and America should be kept up; and he hoped that the service would be successfully carried out. After briefly referring to the contract for laying a cable to communicate with New South Wales, the hon. gentleman proceeded to the clause relating to the proposed constitutional changes. The subject was one which should engage the most earnest attention of members. They were not in possession of the proposal which the Government intended to lay before them, but they had an indication of the direction which those changes were likely to take, namely, the development of local government. Thus far he fully concurred in the measure, and the * Government would have his most cordial support. They were not called upon to i discuss the question whether, in the early days of-the colony, provincial institutions were well adapted to the circumstances of the country ; nor were they called upon to consider whether provincial institutions would not meet the requirements of the colony if carried out according to the plan of the originators. These were subjects it was not necessary to theorise npbn." Their task was of a more practical character—they were to decide whether, considering the errors which had crept into provincialism and the altered condition of the colony, it was not desirable that some.constitutional changes should be made ; and that some change should be made he thought there was sufficient evidence to convince any man of impartial mind. It would be unnecessary for him to speak more fully on this subject, as every person would be guided more or less by his own experience of the existing form of government. He should most cordially support any measure which, while abolishing provincialism, substituted some practical form of local government. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving that the address in reply be adopted. Tho Hon. Captain BAILLIE seconded the motion, and spoke of the increased facilities for agriculture obtained by the introduction of the public works scheme, and the inflow of immigrants. He briefly referred to the various clauses in the address preceding that having reference to the abolition of provincialism in the North Island, and the proposal to extend it over the colony. He believed that a Bill of the kind should have been introduced some years ago. Unity was strength ; members had witnessed the effect of a combination of members of either the North or South on any particular question. It was really self-interest which affected them, and not the good of the whole colony. He had no doubt the scheme would meet with every consideration, and that the Government would have every support in carrying out their views. He had great pleasure in seconding the resolution of his hon. friend Mr. Johnson. The Hon. Mr. CHAMBERLIN characterised the address, on the whole, as a very milk-and-water affair. He challenged the accuracy of clause 4 in the Governor's speech, which stated that the returns already received from constructed railways were most encouraging. That had not been the case with the Auckland and Onehunga railway. Of other railways he was not in a position to speak. He would ask why the capitation money on account of the interest on the railway had been kept back from the province of Aucklaud ? The Hon. the SPEAKER ruled that the Hon. Mr. Chamborlin's remarks had no bearing on the motion. The Hon. Mr." HOLMES spoke in terms highly encomiastic of the Hon. Dr. Pollen, in defending that gentleman and the Council generally from an assertion which he knew had been made to the effect that that gentleman was only keeping the seat warm for his predecessor, Mr. Vogel. With regard to the prosperity of the countxy, his (Mr. Holmes') opinion was that the propperity was more apparent than real ; aud as to the loan, the only good feature he could recognise in the negotiation was the condition imposed by the firm of Rothschild, that there should be no more borrowing, for two years. He thought the present Parliament understood nothing of prudence or economy. The private indebtedness of the colony did not represent the entire indebtedness. In round numbers, the money borrowed up to the present time had been £20,000,000, and this as a direct tax wouldl* represent 174 per cent. He could not shut his eyes to the fact that the present state of affairs was not satisfactory. The next subject was the progress -oi railways. That progress had not been so great as they were led to expect. In many cases the contractors had been permitted to extend their time six or eight months. He referred particularly to a line in his own part of the country, by delay in opening which progress had been considerably retarded, and a loss incurred in the revenue of the colony. With regard to the question as to how far the money would go towards the completion of the railways, ho was of opinion that not one-third of the 1000 would be com-'

pleted with the balance of the £4,000,000 loan. He did not regard with favor the proposed mail service. He thought it of much less importance than communication with New South "Wales by telegraph ; and as to its advantage in extending our relations with America, it had been proved that the exchange of goods between this country and San Francisco was inconsiderable. Kegarding the constitutional changes, he considered the present form of government too complicated and expensive; but until some advantageous alteration were laid before them, he should be sorry to give himself to it. He was not prepared to give his opinion as to the working of Provincial Governments, save in Canterbury and Otago, which for general efficiency in their several departments would compare favourably with the General Government. He believed that the Governments of these two provinces had performed a great work. He advocated a readjustment of the representation, and considered that imprisonment for debt required amendment.

The Hon. Mr. WILLIAMSON delivered a very short address, in which he combated the argument of Mr. Chamberlin re the reproductiveness of the railways. Although not paying directly, the country had indirectly benefited by them. The Hon. Mr. MENZIES briefly touched upon the different items in the address in reply, and suggested, with regard to the abolition question, that the Council should express more clearly what they meant. It appeared from the wording of the address in reply, that the Council concurred without discussion in a proposal which had never been directly vinder their consideration. He took it that the Council desired to give their careful consideration to any measure which might be laid before them, but not to pledge themselves until they had had time for consideration. It was far too important a question to be disposed of otherwise. He thought he might rely upon the mover agreeing to a slight alteration in the last paragraph, to prevent its pledging the Council to a given course. With regard to the question of readjustment, he felt the necessity for a greater uniformity in the qualification of electors.

The Hon. Mr. JOHNSON (the mover) agreed to the amendment suggested by his hon. friend. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN reviewed the speeches of the evening, and spoke hopefully of the policy of the Government and the progress of public works. Regarding the loan recently negotiated he said a very great difficulty had been experienced in consequence of the efforts made by persons at Home (and who had taken upon themselves the mission) to disparage the colony and damage its credit ; and even men here in the colony, while as they believed exercising conscientiously their duties, had been led to do so likewise. With regard to his hon. friend, Mr. Holmes's nattering remarks of him- (the speaker) the position he held then was entirely owing to the detention of Mr. Vogel, and not through any merit of his. The Hon. Mr. J. JOHNSTON felt impelled to remark upon what the Hon. Dr. Pollen had said regarding persons in this colony having damaged the credit of the colony, believing from the tenor of that gentleman's remarks that he alluded to members of that Council. He said this because during last session two members of that Council had thought it necessary to bring under the consideration of the Council the actual position of the colony. He was not aware if Dr. Pollen alluded to those gentlemen; but he (Mr. Johnston) thought the more natural reason to which to ascribe the non-success of the negotiation was the frequent visits of the colony to the London money market. It had been thought necessary to adopt a different course in the negotiation than on any occasion previously, and that of itself might have engendered distrust. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN moved, and it was parried, that the address be presented to his Excellency. ADJOURNMENT. On the motion of Dr. Pollen, the House adjourned till Tuesday at the usual hour. The Hon. the SPEAKER notified that in case the Governor should decide to receive the address in the interim, he would acquaint the members by circular. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, July 22. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30. PETITIOXP. A number of petitions were presented. KOTKES. Various notices of intention, either to ask questions, move motions, or apply for leave to bring in Bills, were given by several members. PAPERS. Sir D. McLEAN tabled a number of papers. QUESTIONS. In answer to Mr. O'Rouke, The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON said the Government would keep in mind the question of connecting the Auckland and Onehunga railway with the berthing place for steamers, , but the wharf was not now strong enough to bear the railway, and even if it were, it would no t be convenient to do the work j ust now. However, satisfactory arrangements would be made shortly. In reply to Mr. Harrison, The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON said plans and specifications for the permanent improvement of the entrance to the Grey River would be laid upon the table of the House in the course of a fortnight. Mr. MURRAY asked whether the Government had any information relative to the reported stoppage, by Sir J. Vogel, of free emigration to New Zealand, and if so, whether there was any objectiou to place such information before the House. The Hon. Major ATKINSON, in reply, said within a few days all the information would be placed upon the table of the House ; but in the meantime he would state that free immigration had not been stopped. BILLS INTRODUCED. Mr. BUNNY introduced a Bill to authorise the Corporation of the city of Wellington to raise monies for the erection of municipal offices. Bill read a first time, and the second reading made an order of the day for Thursday next. The Hon. Major ATKINSON brought in a Bill to amend the Waste Lands Act, 1858. Bill read a first time, and second reading fixed for Tuesday. The Hon. Major ATKINSON introduced a Bill for indemnifying the Colonial Treasurer, and all other persons, for the expenditure of £84,040 15s. 6d., for the service of the financial year ending 30th June, 1575, and for charging the same on the accounts of the said year. He explained that owing to a technical difficulty the money which had been voted for the immigration service of 1871-72 could not be applied, and the Government rather than interrupt the course of the public business, had decided to spend the money, and after explaining the circumstance to Parliament, ask that the disbursement might be legalised. This was the best course the Government could have pursued under the circumstances. They might have called Parliament together to grant the necessary supply, or they might have stopped immigration, either of which would have been highly inconvenient, and therefore they had taken the perhaps unusual course of spending the money, and then asking Parliament to vote the amount, and relieve the members of the Government of liability to the penalties which the Audit Act imposed. The House having gone into committee, the Bill was advanced a stage, and ordered to be reported. waste lands. Mr. McGLASHAN, pursuant to notice, moved for a return of all actions at law against the Superintendent and Waste Land Board of Otago Bince The Waste* Lands Act, 1872, came iuto operation ; the nature of the causes, and how decided or compromised ; and all costs incurred therein. In the course of some remarks, the hon. member was understood to refer to the Waste Lands Act of 1872 as very deficient in meeting the wants of the settlers; or if not deficient in itself, very inefficiently administered. No donbt the runholders rushed the land when there was no hope of getting Bottlers on the waste

lands of the colony. He did not approve o the system of payment now in operation. Ihose who paid cash had to pay higher prices than those who bought on credit. To that extent the Act might well be altered. - The motion was earned. Mr. McGLASHAN moved for a return, giving a detailed list of the amount of land disposed of on deferred payments within iha province of Otago, from the Ist January, 1873, when the Waste Lands Act came into operation, to the 30th June, 1875; Btating, as near as can be ascertained, the money value expended in improvements, and if there is personal residence and occupation thereon, as provided for in sub-sections 4 and 5 of clause 54 of the said Act. After a few remarks from Mr. Mehvyn, Mr. THOMSON said he should like to see an alteration in the terms of the motion, so that they would get information as to the number of unsuccessful applicants, which he believed to be large, as he had been given to understand that the applications averaged twenty for each acre. He should like to know ho_w many had been disappointed, for: he knew ia some instances men had waited for months to get land, and had gone to considerable expense and inconvenience in their endeavors to get land. He had heard it proposed that the acreage for selection should be increased to 100,000 acres per annum, but did not see why there should be any limit at all. If there were men in the country willing and able to take up land, why should they not get it j He certainly failed to see why the House should step in and tell them they could not get it. He moved an amendment to the effect that the return should embrace the number of unsuccessful applicants for land during the period mentioned. After a few remarks from Mr. Shephekd,. the motion as amended was carried. Mr. McGLASHAN moved for a return of land in the, Crookston and Greenvale Districts, Herriot Hundreds, to be sold by auction on the Ist September next as land of special value, as advertised in the Otago Provincial Government Gazette of 23rd June last. Such return to show the estimated value of fencing and improvements thereon, and the nature of such improvements on each section respectively; also the acreage compensation paid to the runholders. — A return of land in the same districts advertised for selection on deferred payments on 6th July last, showing the acreage of each allotment or section, the estimated' value of fencing and improvements, and the nature of such improvements thereon ; also the acreage compensation paid to the runholder.—A return showing the total acreage acquired from one or more runholders in the above districts, and the compensation paid them ; the amount proposed to be sold as land of special value, and on deferred payments respectively. —A map showing the relative position of the various sections of land as open for sale on deferred payments, and for sale by auction as land of special value. Agreed to. Mr. JOHNSON moved for a return,, showing the amount of revenue received from sales of Crown lands within the present electoral district of Manawatu, during each of the nine years ending 30th June, 1875; the amount received on account of the purchase money of Crown lands within the said district (exclusive of the Manchester block, agreed to be sold on deferred payments), and the amounts still due thereon; the amount of both principal and interest received on account of the purchase money of the Manchester block, and the amount due on 30th June, 1875. He said his constituents felt that they had. been unfairly dealt with in the matter of the sale of these lands, and thought the money derived from them ought to have been spent in the district. But for all that had been done the money might as well have been paid to the Emperor of China as into the provincial chest. (Hear, hear.) Agreed to. GOLDFIELDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The second reading of this Bill was postponed till Wednesday next. The House adjourned at 3.25.