PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4409, 7 May 1875, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Thursday, May 6. The Speaker took the chair at half-past seven. MESSAGE FROM HIS HONOR. A message from his Honor recommended the Council to make various appropriations enumerated. PETITION. Mr. LUDLAM presented a petition from James Mackay, of Wererou, praying for compensation for certain land which he had purchased but of which he had not obtained possession. third headings. The Wellington Land Sale Bill and the Local Districts Impounding Bill were read a third time. ' THE EDUCATION ACT AMENDMENT ACT. This Bill having been committed, Mr. LUDLAM drew attention to the fact that the Education Board had itself discussed a resolution, the object of which was to change the whole system of education in this province; yet the Government, by introducing these Acts, were perpetuating a system which was objected to by people all over the province. In the matter of education they were going back instead of forward. The people of the province had no control over its educational system. He always had objected to the centralist system, for it was impossible that the seven gentlemen who composed the Board could know anything of the wants of the people in the country districts. The people outside the town of Wellington were denied all right to manage educational affairs, and the result was that frequently the schools were closed because the master had a headache or had been drunk the evening before. He had recently been in Canterbury, and there he found that the Education Board was a nominated Board which exercised considerable powers. He would appeal to the Government not to force this Bill through simply, because there might be a desire to close the session. It was highly desirable that further legislation should be postponed till the Education Board had had an opportunity of finally deciding upon the proposals now before it. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said there was no desire to close the session in a hasty manner, as the hon. member seemed to think. The Council might close as soon as it liked, and it might sit as long as it liked. All the Government had done was to have their business prepared, so that members should not be able to say that there .was nothing for them to do. Then, as to the statement that the educational system had failed, he denied that altogether. It might be that one schoolmaster got drunk. Schoolmasters would get drunk occasionally as well as other people, but the system was not to be blamed for that. Respectin" the recent action of the Education Board, the Government regarded it in this light : that the resolution was introduced as an indication of the direction legislation should take in the future. However, if the Council desired it the Government would have no objection to act upon the ressolution of the Board this session, if the Board itself came to decision on the subject. His own opinion wa that the Government themselves would make the best Education Board. They had all the necessary machinery, and could work the system at least as efficiently as the present Education Board. Mr. LUDLAM must reiterate the statement that the present educational system had been a failure. What the people wanted was to have their educational affairs managed by their own local committees. There had been no such thing as local management since the local committees were abolished; and so unsatisfactory were the present schools that ho knew many settlers who had taken their children from the public schools and sent them to private schools. The system of four years ago was much better than the present one; and as to making the Government the Education Board, he would warn members that those who spoke loudest for freedom were often the greatest tyrants. He hoped the Council would never assent to such a change. Mr. Watt and Mr. Wright spoke in favor of the present system. Mr. BRANDON said the only fault in the present system was one which the Board itself had recognised, and was, he hoped, about to remedy. That fault was, that the districts had great difficulty in finding suitable men to represent them on the Board, which proved to his mind that the elective principle was not suited to their present circumstances. Those who condemned the action of the present Board should remember that it had had great difficulties to contend with in effecting the change of system from the old to tho new. They had to weed out all, or nearly all, the old masters, and he felt convinced that the present staff of masters was much superior. With the alterations proposed by the Board itself, the present system would be foundto be adequate to the requirements of the province. Mr. LOWES dissented from the condemnation of the hon. member for the Hutt. It was not to be expected that the system would prove successful whilst persons, such as the hon. member himself, went about condemning, the Act and generating discontent. Mr. ANDREW said he was a member of the Board, and he confessed ho did not like its constitution. Still, he always did his bcßt to make it work well. One great objection he had was to its power to levy heavy rates on tho outlying districts. He had that morning received a letter from the country, congratulating him upon his admirable address in reply to his Honor's speech, and at the same time asking him to pay his education rates, which amounted to £l6. He did not object to pay so long as something good was done with the money, and he would suggest to the Government that it would be far better to await the decision of the Education Board upon the resolution now before it, even if the prorogation of tho Council should be delayed three weeks longer. Holding that view he should move that the chairman do leave the chair. Mr. C. Pharazyn and Mr. R. Phabazyn spoko for and against the amendment respectively. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said the Government could neither accept the amendment nor accept the responsibility of brining in a new Education Bill this session. It would do no harm to postpone legislation upon the subject for another session. The children were being educated in the meantime. But if tho Council differed with the views of tho Government it might accept the responsibility of passing a Bill if it chose. Tho result of experience in his own district was that tho present condition of things was avast improve-

ment upon the old system. Formerly a master was like a toad under the harrow. He dare not move out of his door without being found fault with by some member of a local committee, and the consequence was that efficient masters could not be got to stand such tyranny. . A division being called for upon Mr. Andrew's amendment, the result was as follows :—Ayes, 4 ; Noes, 16. _ Mr. ANDREW moved the introduction of tho following new clause :—" That in each district not less than two members be elected annually, in the same manner as the Central Board is elected, and not more than two for each school opened in the district, such local inspectors to have the right of visiting the schools of the district at any time, of examining the pupils and reporting thereon, and on the management of the schools generally to the inspector and central bureau in Wellington." The great deficiency in the present Act was that there was a great want of local interest, which would be supplied by the election of persons to exercise control and management in each district. The clause would supply that interest.

The clause was negatived on the voices. Mr. ANDREW proposed another new clause, to the effect that no rates shall be collected in the Castle Point district until there is a school there with not less than ten children. He proposed the clause because he objected to pay 5 per cent, toward the education of the children of the city of Wellington. If the-rate were for the maintenance of a national system he should not object, but why should he be compelled to contribute to the education of the offspring of the people of Porirua ? He did not expect that the motion would be carried, but he was bound to bring it forward in the interests of his constituents. The clause was negatived upon division. The Bill was then reported, and the third reading made an order of the day for tomorrow. SHEEP RATES. Mr. C. PHARAZYN asked the Provincial Secretary what steps have been taken, or the Government propose to take, to recover the amounts shown to be due under the Diseased Sheep Act, and whether in the return laid on the table any of the amounts were included which were shown to be overdue by a previous return, and, if so, by whom such amounts were due? The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said the omeunts in arrear were very small, and would shortly be paid, he presumed, as the Sheep Inspectors had received instructions to collect all outstanding amounts. THE HIGHWAYS ACT. On the motion of the Provincial Secretary it was resolved that this Council hereby recommends the Superintendent of the province of Wellington, by proclamation to be issued by him, with the advice and consent of his Execu-. tive Council for the time being, to declare that all the parts of the Highway Boards Empowering Act, 1871, numbered two, three, four, five, six, and seven shall extend and apply to all the highway districts, coustituted under the Highways Act, 1874, and to the inhabitants, ratepayers, and governing body of each such district, upon such day as shall be fixed in and by such proclamation. EDUCATIONAL ENDOWMENTS. Mr. C. PHARAZYN moved,—That in all future surveys of blocks of land for sale liberal reserves should be made as endowments for educational purposes. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said the Provincial Government usually made such reserves, and intended to do so in future. ADDRESS IN REPLY. Mr. ANDREW, in moving his address iu reply, said all members must agree that it was a flattering circumstance that there was a good cash balance, and it was also a flattering circumstance that that balance was placed to their credit without the aid of their banker, there being, he believed, no overdraft, regular or irregular. Still, that balanoe might have been much greater had not a considerable quantity of land been manoeuvred out of the market. He said it would have been much larger, because it was reasonable to suppose that it would have been rendered larger by the addition of a positive quantity, a gentleman having tendered a considerable amount of money for the purchase of a particular block of land. [The hon. member reviewed the circumstances which formed the subject of investigation before the Waste Land Board in the case of Mr. Buller'a application.] On that occasion the Provincial Government was entrusted with £15,000 of the moneys of the General Government, and in that sense the transaction was peculiar, and the least the Government might have done would have been to thank the General Government for their kindness and consideration. The incident showed how easy it would be to alter the land laws of the province. For instance, it would be easy for the Government, when Mr. Vogel came out with his £4,000,000 loan, to get a cheque for a large amount, put in an application for all the land of the province, as Mr. Bunny did in the case just referred to, buy it in their own name, and do just as they liked with it afterwards, either sell it at any price they might think suitable to themselves, or even give it away. After alluding to the amount realised from land sales during the year, and complimenting Mr. Jackson, the Chief Surveyor, upon the success of his administration of the surveys, the hon. member said he saw no necessity for placing before hon. members certain lawyers' opinions upon the foreshore sale. There was a matter iu regard to which the Government might well have placed before them certain law papers, and that was the decision of the Judges in the case Attorney-General v. Bunny. However, as it was not a pleasant business the least said about it the better. He did not see however why his Honor did not avail himself of the opportunity to compliment the Provincial Engineer while he extolled the Chief Surveyor, for both officers were deserving of praise. In making a contrast between the General Government expenditure, the hon. member drew attention to the fallacy which ran through his Honor's remarks upon this subject. For instance, his Honor while drawing attention to the respective amounts expended in these two provinces, told them, either designedly or undesignedly, that the province had been badly treated in the construction of roads out of the £400,000 loan. That, at least, was the inference to be drawn from his remarks. They were told that the road from Masterton to the Manawatu Gorge was left unfinished, while the road on the Napier side was in a highly complete state. His Honor made no mention whatever of there being a road running from Foxton to Napier which Berved all the purposes of communication between the two provinces. [The hon member then gave a statement of General Government exppnditure in the provinces of Hawke's Bay and Wellington, but as it was identical with the statement given elsewhere by the Minister for Public Works it is unnecessary to repeat it.] These figures proved thata much larger amount has been expended in Wellington than in Hawke's Bay, and he was at a loss to see why his Honor should perpetrate bo great an imposition and so great a fallacy. He had alluded to the Patent Slip because he thought his Honor was not a good judge of what was likely to be a remunerative undertaking; for two years ago in opening the Council he said he hoped the day was not far distant when the Council would not have to appropriate any sum for interest. In that case his Honor, it seems, was greatly mistaken, and, as he had said, was not a good judge of what was a remunerative undertaking. In one part of his address he had inserted a clause to this effect : "Your Honor points out in tho opening of your address that an amount of some £3OOO, which, with the simple confidence of the aboriginal race has been trusted in provincial hands, does not form part of our credit balance of £10,197 10s." In regard to that clause he had an apology to offer, because, read by the li"ht of after experience, he found he had made a mistake in inserting it, the money having been handed over to its rightful owners. The mistake, however, was entirely due to hiß Honor's ambiguous language, and he (Mr. Andrew) was led to put the clause into his address by his opinion of his Honor's oharacter. He had no more remarks to offer, and would move the motion.

Mr. BEETHAM seconded the motion, not because he agreed with the terms of the address, but because he considered the Council was justified in maintaining a custom which gave hon. members an opportunity to debate both sides of the question. The motion was then put, and negatived on the voices. GRANTS IN AID. Mr. LOWES moved, —That as Masterton is about to petition his Honor the Saperintendent to be placed under the Local Boards Act of 1873, in the event of the petition not being in time to be gazetted by his Honor before the close of the present Bession, the local commissioners appointed under the Act be entitled, notwithstanding, to receive their proportion of the grant in aid proposed to be given to the local boards of the province. He did not intend to enter into any explanation of the particulars of the case, as the Provincial Secretary, iu answer to Mr. C. Pharazyn, had already stated that those boards which were duly proclaimed before the division of the vote for local boards would receive a share of the vote. Motion agreed to. GRANT TO FEATHERSTON HIGHWAY BOARD. Mr. PHARAZYN moved,—That the Council resolve itself into a committee, to consider a respectful address to be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to place on the Estimates a sum of £224, as a special grant to the Featherston Highway Board, to enable them to carry out an arrangement for opening a new road entered into by them under the 27th clause of the Highways Act, 1871, which has been since found not to confer the power intended. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that several hon. members had placed upon the notice papers proposals involving an expenditure of £9OOO more than the Government had contemplated. Under these circumstances, the Government felt it to be their duty to the province as a whole to say that they could not support these applications. If the Council chose to carry the motions, that rested with members, but the Government could hold out no hope that the votes would be complied with. The present case was an exceptional one. Its justice was recognised, and therefore no opposition would be offered. The Council then went into committee upon the question, which was carried. UNAUTHORISED EXPENDITURE. Mr. BTJNNY moved, in committee of the whole, that an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to send to the Council a recommendation to grant the sum of £4067 9s. 9d., to meet the unauthorised expenditure for the year ended in March last. Resolution agreed to. CONSTABLE FOR CASTLE POINT. Mr. ANDREW, in committee, moved,—That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent to place upon the Estimates a sufficient sum for the maintenance of a policeman in the Castle Point district. Mr. LOWES seconded the motion, on .the ground that an additional policeman was absolutely required to protect the large amount of property included in the district subject to the surveillance of the single policeman located at Masterton. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said the Government had made inquiry and found that an additional constable was not required. They would, however, make further inquiry, and if an additional constable were required he would be placed there, but not otherwise. Resolution agreed to. MANGAPAKEHA ROAD. Mr. ANDREW moved, in committee, — That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, to place upon the Estimates the further sum of £2OOO for the Mangapakeha-road. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said tho Government must make a stand at this motion. The Mangapakeha-road, or whatever it was called, might be very useful to people living there, but it would not open up a single acre of Government land. The Government had determined to spend money only upon such works as were likely to return revenue. They would, therefore, oppose this motion. Resolution negatived. ROAD PROM BLAIR LOME TO MASTERTON ROAD. Mr. ANDREW moved,—That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, to place on the Estimates the sum of £ISOO for the purpose of making a road from Blair Logie to the Masterton-road, in line to Kaumingi. Resolution negatived. WELLINGTON COLLEGE. Mr. PEARCE, in committee, moved,— That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, praying him to place on the Estimates the sum of £4OOO, to defray the cost of erecting a new wing and other additions to the building of the Wellington College. The hon. member pointed out that although £9OOO had been spent upon the present building the Council had voted only £ISOO, the remainder having been raised partly by private subscription and partly by other means. The Principal, Mr. Wilson, had reported that the college building was admirably adapted for the purpose, but its dimensions had become too limited for the attendance. The reproach that Wellington was much behind the rest of the colony in its means of imparting higher education was now partly removed, and before long ho believed it would not be necessary to send their boys to Nelson, Canterbury, and other provinces, aa was the case at present. The number of pupils in attendance had become so large that a second resident master had become necessary, and the vote would enable the college trustees to make provision of the kind. He trusted the Council would agree to the resolution. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said it was with groat regret he made the announcement, but he had no other course open than to oppose the resolution, the appropriations already authorised being equal to the anticipated revenue for the year. Several members having spoken for and against the resolution, a division was called for, which resulted as follows -.—Ayes, 9; Noes, 11. The resolution was consequently lost. PENSION. On the motion of Mr. PEARCE, it was agreed that a respectful address he presented to his Honor the Superintendent, praying that the item in the Estimates under the head " miscellaneous," Thomas George £SO, be increased to £75. GRANT TO CARTERTON AND TARATAHI TOWNSHIPS. Mr. BeetHAM moved, —That an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to place on the Estimates the sum of £IOO, for the purpose of clearing off the stumps and timber on the present main line of road through the townships of Carterton and Taratahi. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said he should oppose the resolution, because the Carterton and Taratahi people could obtain more than the amount asked for if they chose to follow the example of the people of Greytown and form themselves into a local board. Of course, if these stumps impeded the traffic on the main road the engineer would receive instructions to clear them away. Resolution negatived. The various resolutions were then reported, and ordered to be read a second time next day. WEIGHTS AND MEASURES. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY, in answer to Mr. Beetham, said the Government would have no objection to send the Inspector of Weights and Measures to the Wairarapa at an early day. Tho Council adjourned till next evening at 7.30.