SIR GEORGE GREY.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4376, 30 March 1875, Page 3

SIR GEORGE GREY.

So much interest is necessarily taken in the utterances of Sir George Grey, in the present state of affairs, from the attitude ho has asBurned, and the double position to winch he has been elected as Superintendent of Auckland and a member for Auckland City west, that we extract the following leading paragraphs from his speech at the Choral Hall, Auckland, on the 22ud instant. We take them from the report of the Daily Southern Cross, of the23rd instant, which extends over eight columns and a half of that journal: THE LATE SUPERINTENDENT OP AUCKLAND. You must all of you be aware that for many years I have known Mr. Williamson, that I entertained for him the very strongest regard, and that it is impossible for me to see a man who devoted so many years and so much energy to the service of this province pass away from us without deeply regretting such a melancholy ' event. You must pardon me for relieving my mind of this subject in the first instance, and as I have done so I would venture to to one circumstance which the other day, passing his old place of business in Shortland Crescent, recalled to my mind a scene, apparently trifling in itself, but really of the greatest possible nignificauce in the present state of affairs. Most of you, probably, are aware that formerly Mr Williamson kept a shop in Shortland Crescent- that he raised himself from that position to the one he afterwards occupied, is one of the «ircumstan«s which most strongly drew me towards tho man, and towards his memory now. One day, passing down Shortland Crescent, I saw, gazing in at that shop window, a very intelligent-looking hoy His dress was so neat, his appearance so intelligent, that I was altogether strode by the circumstance, and watched him, as he most intently looked into the window. About a quarter of an hour afterwards I returned, and the boy was still there. I walked up to him and asked what he was looking at, and he told me he saw two little cannons in the shop window, that he had just been building a boat, and that the question that occupied his mind was what a treasure they would be to him, but he had no money. Well, I took the boy in, and bought the little cannons for him. (Cheers.) I asked him who bis father was, and he said *• a mechanic but the boy's whole aspect and demeanor convinced me that he must have been a mechanic of no common order, Ihe boy passed out of the shop. Two or three, or it mbdit he four or five, years passed on, and Invent to Nelson in the performance of my duty. I was met in the street there by a lad, growing up almost to be a young man, who stopped me and produced from his waistcoat pocket the little cannons. He said, Sir, I have never parted from these, .and have never forgotten what you did for* me in giving them to me.” I said, “Is your father here ? “Yes. “ Who is he 1” “He is Mr. Robertson the Superintendent of Nelson.” (Cheers.) Now what had taken place ? The owner of the shop had become the Superintendent of this province, and the father of the boy who was looking into the window hnd raised himself to the position of Superintendent of another province. OPPORTUNITIES OF ADVANCEMENT. I confess I felt proud of the institutions which had been introduced into this country, and I still think that any man who would prevent such events occurring within the limits of New Zealand, is not a friend to the happiness of the human race, or to his own happiness either. I say that any man who attempts to destroy such openings to the people of . this country will find when old age creeps upon him that he regrets what he has done ; and that when he is approaching that other world where all must be equal, whether they like it or not, he will be sorry if he has thrown any obstacles in the way of virtue or ability raisin" itself to eminence in this world. (Cheers.) Why human intellect and human goodness are the greatest blessings perhaps, next to religion, that God has given to man, and he who prevents the human race from availin'' itself of benefits of that kind is neither* a friend to his fellow nor to his Maker. Trifling as that incident was, I think you will all feel with me the significance of it; and I, for one, in my heart earnestly desire that one distinguishing characteristic of New Zealand through all time shall be, that every mother, looking at a clever son, may believe that the time may come when all his fellowcitizens will recognise his worth, and he may be a blessing to the country in which he was horn. (Cheers.) And I hope that many mothers may still see such aspirations realised, and enjoy the happiness that flows from them ; and I say more than that, I hope that this may ever be a country in which the young wife when she looks at a studious husband, and sees him still cultivating his intellect and doing his best to perform his duties to his fellow-men in every respect, will believe that the time is not far distant when his worth and merit will be acknowledged, and when others will recognise those virtues and that goodness which she herself sees in him—(cheers)—when at last the ineffable pleasure may burst upon her of seeing that her dreams have been fulfilled, and that lie has been dragged out by his fellow-countrymen, and chosen to hold positions of v.-lnca he has shown that he is worthy. (Cheers.) Enteitainin" these views, what I would propose tonight °to do is this —not to dwell upon mere provincial matters, nor explain their relation to the form of government that you have the most excellent speech of Mr. Swanson to refer to—you have Mr. Eees’s pamphlet, and you have hundreds of writings upon the same subiect—most able letters, which I have seen in your newspapers ; but there are certain great Constitutional questions upon which your whole welfare and prosperity depend, which I have not seen sufficiently dwelt upon, and what I would ask you to do to-night, is really to consider these questions, and then when they have been considered, and have been debated, let ns all determine upon some common line ot ■policy which the great majority may feel is for the benefit and for the good of all. (Cheers.)

AFFAIRS AS THEY EXIST. What is wrong in the government of the country at the present time —what interferes with the prosperity of its inhabitants—what must interfere with their future happiness—what must entail misery upon millions, wealth perhaps upon a very few,—such institutions we have a rhdit to criticise—such institutions we have a right to consider, and such institutions, if we dislike, we have a right to sweep away. (Cheers.) THE POSITION OF THE GOVERNOR. To be"in at the very head of ail in this country, let me point out to you with regard to the office of Governor, that the rule throughout the British Empire for many years has been this, although there have been departures from it ; When Great Britain paid the expenses of a colony, it was responsible for its debts, and provided it with a military force : Great Britain nominated the Governor, and_ that Governor was, to a certain extent, nominated by the British Parliament —that is, it was impossible for the Ministry at Homo to place a mere follower or dependent in any important office where real duties were to be performed, because every such appointment was discussed m the most deliberate manner in the British Parliament ; and the Government, if they were

doing what was even questionable, had an enormous amount of opposition to meet. I shall instance my own case thirty-five or thirty-six years ago. When I was first appointed Governor there was a great debate on the subject in the British Parliament. When I was first sent to this colony there was a debate, which, wonderful to relate, lasted for three days before the question was determined. But when Great Britain ceased to pay any expenses for a colony, the usual rule, not only in ancient times but in modem times, has been that the Govemors are selected by those persons who defrayed the expenditure. For example, until i went to South Australia myself, the whole expenses of the colony were home by a Board of Commissioners in .England—that is, a board of shareholders in a company that nominated the Governor, find presented him to the Queen who, as a matter of course, issued her Commission to him Even in the case of New Zealand, when the Auckland Islands were constituted a separate colony, and were paid for only by a whaling company, that whaling company selected a Governor and presented him to the Queen in

the same way, they being responsible for the expenditure, and the Queen appointed that Governor. When your own Constitution Act was drawn, the Act was so framed that the General Assembly could make what law they pleased for the appointment of Governor and send it home to the Queen. That is the existing law of New Zealand at the present day. Whether this system is to be adopted or not is, of course, a question. THE EFFECT OP THE SYSTEM. ' But what I would ask you to do is to consider tho effect of the present system and the existing state of things. Where there is an hereditary monarchy the Crown, for the time being, has a strong public interest in the conduct of public affairs. Usually a large number of subjects are from tradition, from the habit of years, strongly att cbed by personal ties to the reigning Sovereign. The reigning Sovereign takes the greatest possible care to commit no mistake that may injure its subjects or alienate their affection, for the sake of the children of the King or Queen that may he on the tin-one. But under our circumstances, constituted as we are, a Governor who may he appointed from time to time has, in point of fact, no interest of that kind in the country, and has but one object that necessarily he must pursue. I say this ‘without the least reflection on the person who does it, because it is a necessity, if possible to stand well with the Ministry of the day in the colony, to meet all their views, and, if possible, to avoid coming in any way in collision with the inhabitants of the country in which he may he, to escape, in point of fact, without having any disturbance or any difference witli the people who may be managing affairs at the time. Therefore, it is almost impossible for him to make a stand against what he may think wrong, or to appeal to the country regarding what he may disapprove of, as the Crown may do at Home, and certainly would do, and he becomes in this respect a rnei-e machine. (Cheers.) THE POSITION FROM THE GOVERNOR'S POINT OF VIEW.

Now, we will consider this question on behalf of the Governor. The Governor is absolutely dependent upon the persons at Home. He is not appointed now by the Queen, but by the Government of the day, for their own peculiar. piu-poses, whatever they may be. If you attempt here to reduce the salary of your Governor, as'was done some few years ago—if an Act is passed for that purpose by the Assembly, and it is sent Home, it is disallowed. The answer is, “ The Governor holds his office for six years ; onr consciences are so tender that we cannot commit a breach of contract with him, pardon us, therefore, for advising the Queen to disallow the act.” (Laughter and cheers). That is their language to the colonists. They give the colonists no power whatever over the Governor in that direction. What is their language to the Governor ? His Commission appoints him to be Governor daring the Queen’s pleasure, not for six years ; he may be removed at a moment. Within the time that I have lived one Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland was removed at a moment’s notice for refusing to give a pension of £4OO a year from .the civil list to a lady. I have known other Governors removed for simply differing in opinion with the Queen’s advisers. I have known a Governor instantly removed for refusing to appoint to an office a relation of the man who happened to be Premier of England at the time, because he believed the man was not eligible. (Cheers.) There was no period of six years given to him there. If the Minister at Home pleases, all his income is taken from him, and what he has expended on his outfit he must attempt to realise, and go at a single moment. That is the view that is taken of it when the Government regard it in their own case at Home. When they view it in ttie case of the colonies, the appointment is for six years and can be in no way interfered with. (Laughter and cheers.) Then in 1867. another very curious circumstance took jilace. I intended to have quoted the actual words, but I will tell you the case as I remember it. At the time the troops were being withdrawn from the colonies, and the whole expenditure of the • colonies was being thrown upon themselves, the view was taken up at Home almost precisely in these words : That' no man was fit to represent his Sovereign in the colonies who had not been born in the purple. That was the language used ; that is, that no man was henceforth to be appointed to the colonies as Governor, except in extreme instances, who was not the sou of a peer, which is what they call being bom in the purple. The rule was partly relaxed afterwards, and if a man had married the daughter of a peer it was thought sufficient. (Laughter and cheers.) Then the next extraordinary statement upon this subject which was maintained absolutely was this : That the colonists earnestly desire to be governed by people who had been born in the purple, and that it was easier to govern them in that way. Now, that may be the case. I don’t know. Some men might Worship rank in that kind of way, and may hold that view ; but that was, undoubtedly, the statement, and is certainly the Belief that existed, and is the practice which lias been pursued. Now, I think that in that way tho colonies stand in a very bad position, and the Governor himself stands in a very bad position. But I take another very serious objection to ibis system, viz., that it places in the bands of the Government at Home a very large sum of money indeed, to be annually expended either in rewarding persons who have given their political support, or in keeping opponents with adverse votes in the House of Peers, out of the way in distant parts of the world. (Cheers.)

WHAT THE COLONY CAN DO. I recommend no particular system to you, but we have the power to decide, conjointly with the Queen, what has to be done. Parliament and her Majesty give us that power, and we can exercise it in such a way as to offend nobody, and do that which we may deem, after consideration, to be the best for the interest of tlie whole, and the entire community. (Cheers.) Snob, indeed, is the magnitude of this abuse, that I will give you one instance of what I mean. So little disposal is given to us, even of our own revenues, that supposing the salary here was £IO,OOO a year, the Minister at Horne may give the Governor leave of absence for two years at any time he likes, and, if it should be required, pay him £SOOO a year the whole time of his absence —as large a salary as the Prime Minister of England receives—and we are not allowed to say whether he is to give it or not. That is settled by the Government at Home. Now, I think that is another reason why this state of things should be closely and gravely inquired into, and the salary of tlie Governor should be fixed upon such a reasonable basis as not to give an excuse for exorbitant salaries. CONSTITUTION OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

In the case of the Legislative Council you are still worse off. Now, X do not say a word against the gentlemen composing that body. I have many friends there ; I believe they have done their duty to the very best of their ability. But such a thing was never seen in the world before, until the present age, as that the Minister for the time being should have the power of calling whom he likes to the Upper House —any number of people—and to give them a salary which is to last for life. Only ask yourselves those who recollect the old rotten borough system—is it right that a Minister for the time being should be able to take a man choaon by no constituency, representing no single individual in the world except the Minister himself, and to put him into the Council and make him a governor of this great country ? This is done now because the Governor is nobody here ; he has to take the advice of his Ministers, and I say it is not respectful to us, and not respectful to, the most humble individual in the community, that a person representing only the Minister who appointed him should be chosen and at once made a governor of this great country, with absolute power over us all. With all my heart and soul I object to this. (Cheers.) Well, this institution is in point of fact a gigantic and most expensive sham. (Cheers.) In illustration of what I have said before, and what I mean, that in point of fact it is not created for your good, or in your interest, or in the interest of the people of Great Britain, hut in the interest of a class at Home, I will give you one instance;—A Minister in England agreed with mo that there should he an elective Upper House, I was promised that

there should be such a Chamber. The whole Constitution Act was drawn with that view. But the doubt arose, if there are elective Upper Houses all over the rest of the Empire, if the rest of the Empire is governed well while under such elective Upper Houses, if it is governed better perhaps even than Great Britain itself, how can an hereditary Upper House stand-in Great Britain ? It won’t do. (Cheers.) That is the real view of this question ; but I say, at least it you entertain that view, don’t give us such an institution as you have given us. You can give us something far better, and don’t clog us with conditions which are hurtful. Now, their reasoning on the subject, when they are not personally interested, is absolutely pitiful. They say, if an Upper House is necessary at all, why thou the members must always be present in the Upper Chamber to do their duty. It is either altogether useless, or they must attend. Therefore, the law wo make in the case of New Zealand is this ;—Any member ot the Upper House who is absent for two years forfeits his vote. Well, what do they say of their own Upper House ? If they want to reward a man who has voted for them, and to get rid of a man who has voted against them, they, will send him out to this end of the world for seven or fourteen years. (Cheers and laughter.) I give that as an of the way in which the most beautiful reasoning regarding other' persons is so often little applied in practice by individuals to themselves. It is a most objectionable system, and it is terrible—-I can’t say how terrible—that Bill after Bill may be passed in the Lower House in this country, and rejected by the Upper House who represent nobody, though occasionally they may represent Ministers who appoint them, and who in some cases have made fortunes and gone Home.

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. I will now come to the House of Representatives. With regard to that branch of the Legislature, an interference has taken place which is most adverse to our interests. I will put the proposition in this particular way : First of all, I say it is essential for any people who are to be well governed, and who return a House of Representatives, that they should be able, in some way, themselves to reward their members, if they are rewarded at all, and that there should not be an extraordinary body represented in the interests of Great Britain, because their interests are not ours, but the interests ot a party —I say there should not be an extraordinary body who can manage that House of Representatives, by giving them rewards with which they have nothing to do. (Cheers.) What I mean is this—lately two systems of rewards have been created in tins colony. The one is, they have tried to set up a peerage here, and a peerage of a most contemptible, and hitherto unknown kind. (Laughter and cheers.) The peerage is this: A man has the rank and dignity of a son of a baron given to him for his life within the limits of New Zealand, but if he travels out of New Zealand he is nobody at all. I object to that altogether. First it is a gross breacli of the law—it is a gross breach of a solemn compact entered into with us. I will explain this to you. In England they tried to set up a similar sort of peerage, but they gave a man a title for life, and a seat in the House of Lords. They only created one, and the whole country rose as one man and said “The Queen cannot do this ; we do not want to say anything against the Queen ; poor creature. She probably hardly knows anything about it, but her Ministers cannot do it in her name.” The Ministers said, “Oh, but we can.” “No, you cannot,” was the answer. “ Oil, yes we can ; why the Queen is the fountain of honor. Cannot the Queen do what she likes iu that way 2” “ Not a bit,” was the reply. “ The Queen is the fountain of honor for all Constitutional honors. She may create as many British peers as she likes, also as many Irish peers, but she cannot make any Scottish peers. She is prohibited from doing- that. They took care of themselves at the Union.” (Laughter and cheers.) But the answer following was this : “ The Queen can make a new order of knighthood, and can make knights, but she cannot create a new kind of baron.” So they said, “ Oh, yes, the Queen can. Did not the Stuarts make the baronets and create that order ?” “ Yes,” was the reply, “ but the Stuarts did an immense number of illegal things, and the result was that they lost their crown.” (Cheers.) “Well,” said the Ministers, “ but when the present family were put on the throne they did not promise tho people never to create any new order of nobility.” “ Oh, no, certainly they did not do that, but they promised to govern according to law, and that was the condition upon which they got the tin-one, and that is not governing according to law ; it is breaking the laws of the country, and the Queen cannot do it.” Well, it was admitted then that the Act was illegal, and then they said: “Well, but surely you would not pay the Queen an indignity, and revoke her letters patent.” “Oh, but we will,” was the reply. “ We do not know that the Queen does not wish them revoked ; probably she does.” So the letters patent were revoked, and there was an end of that. No such attempt was made again. There is another reason. In the Constitution Act the Queen solemnly undertook to interfere in no way with anything relating to the order, good government, and happiness of the people of New Zealand, except by joining in an Act with the General Assembly in this country. Therefore she shut herself out from creating such an order of peers. I may be told—but this is very foolish of you, we don’t want to hear this any more, she has only made four, why not leave it alone ! But, I answer, the principle is one—if tjie four are admitted where is it to stop? I can only say that one reason why in early youth I tried to discover new countries was to find places to whicli people might repair to avoid the evils of the old society I had seen in ■ England, and I very unwillingly find it now declared that an aristocracy is to be set up in this country—that some few are to be endowed with great wealth, and that probably hereafter millions are to be left in great misery, and with no rank at all. (Cheers.) ’ I say, therefore, stop, the system at once; don’t let' us have any more of it. The Minister who advised the Crown to appoint these lifepeers in New Zealand, and took the peerage himself, did that whicli was a crime against our liberties in New Zealand. (Cheers.) Probably tho reply will be, it was done in ignorance. I accept that reply. But, I say, retrace your steps, sweep it away just as they did in England, recall this order of the Queen, and let us all be equal in rank, as we were before. TUB NEW KNIGHTS. After dwelling on this subject for a time, much as reported by telegram, Sir George Grey proceeded to speak of THE LAND FUND, and related the incidents connected with the first land fund of £25,000 whicli he had accumulated in Auckland, and which he was ordered to pay over to the New Zealand Company by Act of the Imperial Parliament, but did not do so. Sir George then proceeded to say : You all know now the history of the creation of the land fund. That is, that Great Britain entrusted to mo some thirty years ago a sum of £IO,OOO, ordering me to purchase the best blocks of land that I could, and after soiling them to apply part of the proceeds to immigration purposes, part to purposes of public works, and to reserve at least the sum that I had paid in purchase of the blocks of land, and to re-invest that, and to go on always doing this. And under these conditions with tlie Home Government I purchased almost the whole of the Middle Island, great tracts of land in the province of Hawke’s Bay, great tracts of land in tho province of Wellington, and I began to buy some tracts of land here with the proceeds realised from the sale of other lauds, and I believe that under this system the whole of the North Island, or a great part of it, would by this time have been acquired. Not only that, but under the system of immigration I believe that every farmer in the colony would have been four or five times as well off as now. (Cheers.) I believe that from the stoppage of that system; a large number of families have sunk in the social scale, and in such away that it will take them several generations to retrieve the position they ought fairly to be in, and I believe that tho miseries entailed upon

our settlei-a from immigration not being carried on, from roads not being made, from other lauds not being acquired in the vicinity, can never be told. That is my impression oil the subject; but recollect it was an Act or Parliament again that enabled this to be done. They had to apply to the Ministry at Home to enable that to be done. It was forbidden by the Constitution; and I believe if full notice had. been given to the colony here, and the thing had been thoroughly discussed, such an Act could, never have been passed at all. What brought me out from retirement was, to a great extent, that question. riIOVINCIAL INSTITUTIONS. —HU. VOGEL’S PROPOSALS. What I find you were told was this, and I believe from this very platform, wo are going to sweep away your provincial institutions. Mind you are not to do it yourselves ; it is to ho done by people at the other end of the country, who know nothing at all about you, but they are going to do it, and the reason is that we cannot support our institutions, the gaols, lunatic asylums, and things of that kind. In Canterbury and Otago they are in the most admirable order. They are not in good order now, so we must sweep them away, and we intend to do, but wo will put them in good order for you.' We will provide life, which means that you will be taxed for the purpose. You think that other people will pay for your lunatics here, whereas you ought almost to be shut up yourselves if you believe so. (Laughter and. cheers.) However, you were told that would be the case ; and then you were informed that any one who called in question the compact of 1856 would be a dishonest man, and that it would be a dishonest transaction to endeavor to do so. WHAT am GEORGE GREY THOUGHT. As to what I thought to myself, there shall he one dishonest man! (Laughter and cheers.) If no one hero will stand forward and speak, if they are cowed by expressions of this lond, falling from such very high authority, at least I will come out first, and X will speak if anybody will stand by me afterwards. (Cheers.) That was the first thought I had, and, to my mind, the speech that ought to have been made was to this effect ;—Electors of City East, as I believe they were, —I believe your institutions here are in a very bad state — your lunatic asylum and gaol. I believe that was really said. Ido not say they were, but I only follow out the line of reasoning. Now the institutions of Canterbury and Otago are in a most excellent state. This is quite true, as I can testify from my own knowledge. Well, what is clear is this, that under local supervision, by local authorities, institutions of this kind are brought to the highest conditions, if the authorities have funds. That is what I should have stated if I had been making a speech. Here is a clear proof -that such is the case. It is very admirable to see that they have spent those funds on such worthy objects. It is quite certain that none of the local authorities there have drawn great salaries for themselves, and great allowances, but have conducted everything on a parsimonious and becoming scale. They have spent their funds in a noble and proper way. This shows what comes of trusting local authorities with proper funds. It shows what, local supervision will do.

WHAT MR. VOGEL SHOULD HAVE SAID. Now, I will tell you, electors of City East, what I will do. If possible, I will obtain for the people of the province of Auckland money too." I think they have been very badly used in the land fund business, and what I will do is this ; As I am your representative and Premier of the colony—mind I am still speaking for Mr. Yogel—l will tell you how I will try to get funds for you. I will appoint all the Judges of the Supreme Court a commission, and they shall sit as a Court of Equity, and they shall take evidence and determine if you suffered any wrong in the matter of the land fund, and what remuneration, if any, you are entitled to, and whatever they award you shall have. (Cheers.) SIR GEORGE GREY’S VIEWS. That would appear to me » just way of dealing with a question of this iind, instead of saying that any man was dishonest who called into question the Compact of 1556. I believe still that there may be very great difficulty in getting any. portion, of the laud fund ip that way, and I will tell you further, my belief that the £700,000, which is to be set apart for the purpose, you will not get much good from. I hear that it is necessary, in order to get any, to buy a great deal of indifferent land, and I believe that the expenses of acquiring that land are enormous; and I think myself that the fair way, if that was to have been done at all, would have been in conformity with the terms of the Constitution Act, as it was originally passed, to hand over to the Superintendent of the province the £700,000, and let the inhabitants of the province receive the interest until the land was bought. The province should be allowed to make judicious purchases, instead of the land being procured by agents all over the country, who received so much per acre on all they could purchase. The interest on the £700,000 would have assisted us most enormously in our troubles, aud I believe tbat a far greater quantity of land would have been obtained than you get now, and of better quality, and at half the price. I still think some change of that kind should he made. These are my opinions on the subject of the laud fund. THE RESOLUTIONS OE LAST SESSION. I will now take the resolution of last session passed by the Assembly on the subject of the abolition of tho Northern provinces. I believe the first part of the resolution was to this effect, that the Northern provinces were to be. done away with. I will not say anything upon that point at present. The second part of the resolution I think was, that an Act was to he passed declaring Wellington the Capital and Seat of Government of the colony. Aud this was the most illegal thing I ever heard of in my life, aud a moat unconstitutional proposal. We have some great statesmen in tho Assembly ; but how any statesman could have fallen into such an error, I cannot conceive. Let me point out the Constitutional question to you ; the Constitutional law of every country says there shall be no declared capital ; there shall be no law passed declaring such a thing ; because, if a law was passed declaring that the Legislature must sit at Wellington, and a mob got possession of Wellington for a time, there could he no legislation at all, and you could not pass a law to put them doun. (Laughter and cheers.) If we went to war with Russia, and tho enemy got possession of Wellington, wc should have to sit down and fold our hands, and make no laws at all. Therefore, the Constitution Act says that the General Assembly shall from time to time meet in such part of the colony of New Zealand at such place, and at such times, as the Governor may by proclamation appoint. And in every successive law amending the Constitution Act, that clause has been specially saved. Tho General Assembly have been told that they caunot interfere with it, and they ought not ho allowed to interfere with it. I don’t know whether I have made myself clear on the subject—first of all there is a constitutional law, and second there is a positive statute law of the colony and of Great Britain that no interference of that kind is to ho made by the General Assembly. Therefore, wo need not be alarmed upon that subject. Now, I would not attribute evil intentions to anybody; but I.must say it looks to me excessively like —and so like that the thing ought not to have been done—an intention on the part of the Government to buy so many votes by putting that clause into the resolution.

THE OBJECT TO BE AIMED AT. Having cleared away that second point m the resolution, I will now point out what is the kind of object we ought to aim at—l will not go into details, but simply sketch an outline. I would first of all say that the present machinery, in addition to all the defects.l have pointed out, as it is now constituted, is an mgeniouH device to keep ub from the Queen and from the people of Great Bntam—-hko these honors that I told you of. It would have been impossible for any person desiring to do it to have sat down and devised a scheme more calculated to separate from our fellowcountrymen at Home, and in one moment yon will see that this is beyond all question. if we want anything done here to bring us into communication with the British nation as a whole, we are compelled first of all to have

recourse to the Colonial Minister, who, as I have shown, must be more or less from the honors tiiat are given, and other circumstances, all under the influence of the party in England, under whose power the colonies are now really governed. If we obtain the consent of our own Ministers, they have to go to the Governor, and then he has to bring it under the consideration of the Home authorities. I believe that so long as the appointments to the office of Governor, are, to a great extent, party appointments, as they are now, it will be very difficult to get any Governor to write Home to his party in such a way as to embarrass them in their parliamentary action, and perhaps to get the Ministry of the day turned out at Home, which is what we might want. I do not think he could do it. It would really be a question of honor. It would be more dishonorable to turn his friends out at Home than to do or not to do his duty to the country here. It' is a most trying position to put any man in. But even supposing the Governor takes our view of the question, the despatch goes Home and goes to the clerks in the Colonial office, and the question is, what view do they take. Don’t suppose that the Minister sees all our despatches, There are forty colonies at least; and supposing that on an average one despatch only a day is written from each of these colonies, there would be forty long letters to read, and all their enclosures, every day, by a man who has his duties to perform * —bis duties in Parliament, his duties in the Council, his duties to his constituents, and all his own private affairs to manage. It is absolutely impossible that he could read these letters. They go to the clerks in the Colonial office, and they determine what they will lay before tho Minister, and what they will advise him to do. Then the Minister does, not necessarily lay the matter before Parliament at all. You must not think that every document that goes Home is allowed to be brought out before the British Parliament ; half of them are suppressed. If you complain of that suppression, what is the answer ? The Minister will be distressed beyond measure when he hears it—it is the fault of the parliamentary clerk, poor fellow ! You won’t get him into a scrape, will you? You won’t say anything about it ? (Laughter.) That is the invariable answer. You will see, therefore, that under the present system The Queen really has nothing to do with us. I say let us have our own Secretary of State in England; name one of our own people and send him Home. (Cheers.) It would not cost you half what your Governor does now. If you gave your Secretary of State £3OOO a year, he would be a very great man indeed, and if you gave him £2500 he would have more. than the American Ambassador receives, and still be a great man. What would be the result of this ? Let us look at tho first change. At the present moment, when one of our colonists goes home to England on some mission he lands with no rank ; helpless, unavoidably—to ■ a great extent recognised by nobody. He goes to the Colonial Minister, upon whom he is entirely dependant for an introduction to society. He necessarily comes under' an obligation to the Colonial Minister. It would be very hard for a colonist sent Home in that way to take any step adverse to the views of the Minister who had him to dine with the greatest men in England, and had him asked to their houses. But if we had a Secretary of State of our own, and he was made a member of the Privy Council and Bight Honorable all over the world, as our_ statesmen ought to be—(cheers) —he would land in England a great man. He would also have the right of a personal interview with the Queen. A frequent intimacy would spring up between the Queen and her subjects. As we sent Home man after man she would know at least five or six in this colony, and so would take an interest in her subjects such as she never did before. When I say he would be a member of the Privy Council, I wish you to notice this, that the meaning of being a member of the Privy Council is that the Queen may call upon bun whenever she wants his advice. But there are hundreds of Privy Councillors whose advice she never requires at all. That would be opening a career worthy of our statesmen in this country. (Cheers.) WHAT TO DO WITH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY. The next thing we come to consider is, what is to be done about the General Assembly. I believe the General Assembly is to be allowed to remain as it is at Wellington, and everything is to be swept away from Auckland by degrees, and at last your Provincial Council—that the future of Auckland will, in many respects, be an extremely gloomy one. I have no hesitation in saying that on the other hand if you reduce the General Assembly to the lowest possible limit, make them meet only every two or three years, and in some part of the colony which is central to all,, and which need not be a town unless desired, and if you increase greatly the powers of your Provincial Government, you will make this place Sydney, some other place Melbourne, some other place in the colony Adelaide, you will have great Governments of your own —your place will rise in importance in every possible way. The intellect of the people will be educated by having a legislature of their own on the spot. Your provinces are not inferior in magnitude to tho greater number of British Colonies, and in fact they far surpass them in size ; some of them have their separate. Governors, separate Legislatures, and are separate colonies in every possible way ; and I believe that Auckland will rise to be a city of very great importance indeed, i nd that it will really become the Seat of Government again, a seat of a most important Government, a seat of intellect, a seat of learning, a seat from which civilisation will be spread to all the country round instead of sinking into insignificance. (Cheers.) I believe that by sweeping away the General Assembly in its present form, you will save an enormous and absolutely useless expenditure, and that you will bring things entirely under your own control. I believe your youths, if given the openings I have spoken of, will have posts of worthy ambition set before them, and you will rear great men, and that you will send Secretaries of State to England, who will hold their own with the best statesmen England has ever produced. (Cheers.) X firmly believe that such will be the case ; and, upon the other hand, I feel satisfied that if the General Assembly, constituted as it now is, is allowed to usurp all the powers of this colony if the provinces are entirely to be swept away, the population of the distant parts will sink in intellect, and will actually fall year by year to a degree that you yourselves could hardly conceive. I believe that your commerce will decline, and people will cease to resort to the place as a great centre of learning, of legislation, of all tho inducements which could be held out to them to come here. PERORATION. Sir George concluded by protesting that he would not abandon provincial institutions, and saying ; I have tried to sketch a system which will open up and lead to objects of for every man—-not a system by which there should be a few rich persons in tho country, while millions remain in misery,—under which there would be some equality of wealth, happiness, and prosperity throughout an entire contented community. It shall not be, if I can help it, that women and children shall starve and sink into misery in consequence of the resources once open to industry being absorbed by wealth and power. I dare say you have heard of Gustave Dore and Blanchard Jerrold. Dore is a distinguished artist and a man of groat ability. Jon-old is also a man of high Uterary attainments. They have made a joint study of London and the lower stratum of its population. The conclusion they have come to is that it is false to say that wickedness is the cause of all the misery that is witnessed. It is their opinion that for every ten men who take to. robbery, to vagrancy, or to pauperism by the impulses of their own vices, there are’thousands who lead lives of misery, but struggle like heroes throughout the whole of it. Such is their deliberate statement ; one being a most intelligent Frenchman, the other a most intelligent Englishman. The scheme that I propose will allow no such frightful scenes to spiring up in New Zealand I believe ray schemes must ultimately prevail. Whoever joins me to carry them out must join me from conviction. I. am not able to offer him place, or power, or bribes. He must join me with the earnest hope of doing good to the

Empire. Men of this kind will be tenfold more worthy than those to whom they will be opposed. I believe that truth and justice will live in this colony, as they will live throughout the whole of the British Empire. I thank you vei-y much for the attention with which you have heard me. I will not detain you further ; and depend bn it if you elect me to ■serve you I will do it to the very utmost. (Loud and prolonged cheering.)