THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4332, 6 February 1875, Page 1 (Supplement)

THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH.

PROPOSED UNION. The annual session of the Presbyterian Synod of Otago was commenced on the 13th instant. On the subject of the union of the Churches of the South and the North the following addresses, which have local as well as general interest, were delivered. We quote from the Guardian : The Rev. James Paterson read the following minute:—“Wellington Provincial Council Chambers, 9th December, 1871. The Assembly called for the report of the Committee on Union with the Synod of Otago and Southland, which being read, the following resolution was unanimously adopted : —‘That the report )>e received. That the Assembly express its willingness to acquiesce generally in the proposed scheme of union forwarded from Otago, suggests to the Otago the advisability,of giving two parties the privilege of appeal in cases of discipline and doctrine, and declares itself ready to bring the principle of synodical action into, operation throughout the Church, in order to facilitate the completion of the Union.’ ” He proceeded : As our commission bears, ■ we appear before you as deputies from the Presbyterian Church' of New Zealand, and our instructions are to assure you of our most fraternal regards—of our heartiest sympathy with you in all your schemes and operations as a Church, - and our unfeigned desire that the distinction between us as Churches should cease, and that we should unite and form one strong Presbyterian Church of Now - Zealand. Personally, I have peculiar pleasure in being present with you at your deliberations here in Dunedin. It is my first visit to Otago, and I have looked forward to this visit with the greatest pleasure.* I remember well when this part of the colony was founded. I had the honor of meeting one of its founders just when he was preparing to come here. I' refer to the late Rev. Dr. Burns. I used to get from time to time from a friend a perusal of his letters, describing the country, and detailing the progress of the settlement. Before becoming a colonist I had more knowledge of Otago and more interest in Otago than in any other part of New Zealand. And since coming to Wellington I have heard much of Otago—of its growth and prosperity —and of this very handsome city, its capital. I came, therefore, with high expectations, and they have been more than realised. I am delighted with your magnificent country and with your beautiful city. I had several friends here whose acquaintance I had made in the old country, or since coming to the colony, and it has of course been a great pleasure to me to meet with them, and to renew the pleasant intercourse of former days. I am especially gratified, sir, to find occupying the moderator’s chair, and presiding over the deliberations of this Synod with so much dignity and ability, an old fellow-student with whom I sat side-by-side in the same classes at college. There is little that I can tell you about our position and our work as a Church in the North which you do not already know - . We are in numbers, I believe, about the same as yourselves, but we are scattered over a much wider extent of country, and are, therefore, not so compact, or so easily brought together iu our Presbyteries and Assemblies. We have had peculiar difficulties to contend with. Here in Otago you Presbyterians have always been in the° ascendancy. This was a. class settlement it was substantially a Presbyterian settlement. As Presbyterians, you have to a great extent had everything your own way. You were able from the very first to make endowments for churches and manses, and to make provision for education out of your land revenues. In the North it was otherwise. From the very beginning we were a far more mixed and divided community, and the Presbyterians were never in the majority. They were only a handful, scattered here and there in the midst of a purely English community. _ And they have had to make and establish their position in these circumstances. Then we have shared in the difficulties and drawbacks arising from so large and powerful a body of Natives in the North Island. .In spite of all these difficulties and drawbacks, we have succeeded in establishing and maintaining our position as a branch of the Presbyterian Church. We have three Presbyteries in the North Island—the Presbytery of Auckland, the Presbytery of Wellington, and the Presbytery of Hawke’s Bay. We have four Presbyteries in the Middle Island —the Presbytery of Nelson, the Presbytery of Westland, the Presbytery of Timaru, and the Presbytery of Christchurch, those last three forming the Synod of Canterbury. We have some good-sized congregations in the larger towns; and, on the whole, the ministry is well supported. In the Presbytery of Wellington we have not a single minister settled who has not £2OO of a stipend and a manse, and one of our ministers has £BOO and a manse. Every year we are extending our borders, planting the ordinances of the Church, and forming new congregations in newly districts. I he large influx of immigration within the last year or two lias made extraordinary demands upon us in this direction, and we have been doing our utmost to meet them. Our work in this matter of Church extension is, I have no doubt, substantially the same as your own. We are feeling the same difficulty which you feel, in obtaining from the Old Country suitoble" men to fill our new charges ; and we are turning our attention more and more to the necessity of raising and training a ministry here amongst ourselves in the colony. Like yourselves, we have two or three students studying and qualifying themselves for the ministry, under the supervision of Presbyteries • but this is not enough ; and already we are discussing in our Assembly the desirability of establishing a Theological Hall. _ As to missions, we maintain one of the missionaries laboring in the New Hebrides—Rev. Mr. Watt We have also a missionary laboring amon’o the Maoris in the North Island—the Rev, 'llonore. • We hope ere long to be able to send out a second missionary to the New Hebrides. I come now to advert to the subject of union. I may say in a word, that we in the North are all substantially of one mind in regard to this subject. We believe that a union between our Church in the North and the Presbyterian Church of Otago is both desirable and practicable. We are all thoroughly at one in, this matter. There is no one in our Church, so far as I am aware, opposed to union ; and if there be any somewhat cool about it, it is because they think there has been quite enough talk about it—that it has been quite enough pressed by the North upon the South, and that it would now be more dignified in the North just to wait till the South expresses itself ready to enter into the union, and to consummate it. This, however, has substantially been done by the maionty in your Synod, and therefore most of ns think that we ought now to renew our negotiations, with a view, to completing the union. I need not go over the old familiar arguments about the desirableness of union, and, in fact, the duty of union, between the Churches, where union is at all practicable. Everyone will admit that the Presbyterian Churches, which are one in doctrine and spirit, should also be one in organisation and operation, in so far as this is workable. There are special reasons why as it appears to us it is desirable that we should be united. It would help to give us more visibility in the colony. United as one Church, and meeting statedly in one Assembly, we would hulk more largely; our judgments and decisions would have more weight; and as a united body we should have greater influence for good in the community. Union is strength ; and undoubtedly union would tend greatly to strengthen our position in the colony. If this Assembly were not merely a meeting of the Synod of Otago and Southland hut a meeting of the representatives of the whole Presbyterian Church of New Zealand, do you not think wo should he a larger and more influential Assembly than we are, and that the deliberations and decisions of this Assembly would carry greater weight ? The union would do both Churches good. Drawn closer together, they would have a greater and more beneficial influence on each other. Surely it would do us all good to meet oftener together*—ministers and elders from North and South taking counsel together; comparing and combining our plans and operations for the advancement of our common cause. It would us both good to have the ablest and most

experienced men in both Churches meeting together in one Assembly, to consult for the interests of the Church. The more you wideu the boundaries of your Church the more do you extend the area from which to draw together able and experienced men as counsellors and workers in the Church. This consideration tells advantageously for both Churches. Further, there would he this advantage from union—that we could better combine, and thereby strengthen our schemes and operations in regard to missions, and also in regard to the training of the ministry. The two Churches, apart, may be able to maintain only one missionary each; but, combined, they may be able, as a united Church, to maintain three missionaries. And so, as separate Churches, they may have difficulty to maintain in thorough efficiency separate Theological Halls; but, united, they may be able to maintain efficiently one Theological Hall. For it needs not only funds, but a staff of able professors, and a respectable body of students, to make a thoroughly efficient Theological College. I think I have shown that botli Churches would be benefited by the union. I do not argue the question as if the benefits were all to bo on the one side, or even to preponderate on the one side. I believe the benefits would be mutual. The one Church would be as great a gainer as the other. Now, what are the objections to the union 2 We in the North have no objection. What objections have you in the South 2 Is there any objection in principle 2 I know of none. We hold the same standards; we use substantially the same formula. Our ministers would sign your formula ; I believe you would sign ours. But our usages differ. Well, very slightly. Our attitudes at prayer and praise are the same as yours, with few exceptions. We use hymns ; so do most of your congregations, witli the sanction of the Synod. We use organs and harmoniums. Well, this is the only difference between us—a very paltry difference, and a difference, I venture to predict, that will not exist. (Laughter.) As you have come up to onr position in regard to hymns, so, I have no doubt, you will ere very long come up to our position in regard to instrumental music ; and you will do this with great advantage to yourselves. And when once you are a little accustomed to the change you will be surprised that you ever made so much noise about it, or that you delayed it so long. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) [The Rev. W. Bannerman : I may say that I think you are trespassing upon the best feelings of the Synod.] Well, if I have offended, I beg leave to apologise. (Hear, hear.) Meanwhile I believe it is merely a question of time. What valid objections, then, are there to the union 2 A member of your Church said to me the other day, when speaking of union, “ What of our funds and endowments for building churches and manses 2 Do you want to have a share in these 2” “ No,” I said, “ we do not. We have not the least desire or expectation of getting anything from those funds. We know they are for Otago, and that they have legal sanction for Otago, and for nowhere out of Otago ; and that it would require an Act of the Supreme Legislature to make them extend beyond Otago, even were you willing that they should so extend.” We are quite aware of this ; and therefore these funds do not in the least enter into our calculations in regard to the advantages of union. Of that you may be perfectly assured. I have shown that this union is desirable. Well, is it workable 2 “ No,” say some : “ the geographical difficulties are too great. Now, I admit that there are difficulties, but they are not even now insurmountable, and every year they are becoming less. No doubt it would be difficult for us to have a large full Assembly gathered from all parts of the colony ; but, by making the Assembly peripatetic for a time—by having it meet in Auckland, Wellington, and Dunedin in turns—those difficulties would be got over. As set forth iu the decision of the Northern Church on union, we are ready “ to brjng the principle of Synodical action into operation throughout the Church, in order to facilitate the completion of the union.” We have already sanctioned that principle in having constituted the Synod of Canterbury. And we are willing to form a Synod in the North Bland. We may have some little practical difficulty in determining the boundaries of our Synods, as we are so sparse and widely scattered. But this is simply a matter of arrangement among ourselves, and does not affect the proposal for union with you. Your Synod and our Synods could have all matters of provincial concern left to their own management. In so far as these matters are concerned they would have independent jurisdiction. We think, however, that it would he desirable that in case of doctrine or discipline parties should should have the privilege of appeal to the General Assembly. In matters of “ doctrine ” this would certainly be right, and in cases of discipline it would seem to be advisable, as it is always well to carry such cases beyond the range of local feelings and prejudices. I have already detained this House too long, and must not farther trespass on your time and patience. I trust that this subject of union will receive your favorable' consideration, and that you will see your way to go forward to a speedy accomplishment of it. Meanwhile, we heartily reciprocate the friendly and brotherly regards expressed in the admirable address of the very influential deputation you did ns the honor to send to our Assembly ; and we pray that God’s richest blessing may rest on all your schemes and operations, and crown your efforts and undertakings with abundant success. (Loud applause.) Mr. Smith, Elder, said: Moderator, fathers, and brethren, —It is with feelings of the deepest respect that I would venture to address this venerable Synod, and I can honestly assure you that I am deeply conscious that our Assembly made a great mistake in sending me as one of the deputies, and I am quite sure this was done without ever consulting Mr. Paterson, or he would at once have said, “ Don’t send him, for he will just say what he thinks, and possibly do more barm than good to the cause of our mission.” Now, Moderator, feeling this, if I should say a single word offensive to the views of some of the older members of this Synod, they must accord to mo credit for what they have themselves, and that is, honesty of conviction. However, I feel that I am quite incapable of saying anything of a thoughtful nature on the question of union, as I was thoroughly engrossed in business before leaving home, and have since been two days and two nights enjoying that peculiar sensation which can only be reached through the medium of sea-sickness ; and having hardly yet recovered my equilibrium, you must accept the will for the deed. As I stand here, the thought suggested to my mind is, why is it that I am here as a deputy 2 Why am I not here as a member of this Assembly 2 Really, I can see no reason whatever why there should not be one Presbyterian Church for the whole of New Zealand. I was told by a layman in Wellington the other day that the great reason why there were objections raised to the union by members of the Synod in the South was, that they were afraid that we folks in the North were not true Presbyterians—that we were too liberal in our views. Now, it is to be regretted that such a feeling should exist. However, I may say this much for the laymen in the North—at least for those in Wellington—that our pulpit lias been occupied by by Dr. Stuart, and I am sure every one of us to a man pronounces him thoroughly orthodox ; and we have had Mr. Johnston, of Port Chalmers, and he also is pronounced thoroughly orthodox ; and having hoard Mr. Chisholm, of Tokomairiro, address our young people twice, and having been favored with many interviews with him, I have no hesitation in saying that he likewise is thoroughly orthodox. Since that is what we think of your ministers from the South, what do yon think of onr ministers from tho North 2 You have heard Mr. Eimslie, of Wanganui, and expressed yourselves to me, when I was last in Dunedin, as being highly delighted with him. You have also heard Mr. Hill, from tho Thames ;■ and I have learned regarding him that you were not only pleased with him, but that you really wanted to keep him. X thought, when I heard that “there are canny folks" in Dunedin, you have also heard Mr. Paterson, and I have no doubt you will pronounce the same judgment on him. Now, Moderator, you are pleased with our ministers from the North, and wo are pleased with yours from the

South. Now, are we not agreed on a very important point—yea, on an essential point! I can easily understand that a staunch Presbyterian who has never been in the North Island is somewhat alarmed — fact thinks that the great Presbyterian ship is not safe in the hands of onr Northern ministers, because we stand when we sing, because we have introduced the hymn-book, we have instrumental assistance in our music; but I can assure our honest brethren that there need be no fear, so long as our ship is under the guidance iu the North of such men as Mr, Bruce, of Auckland; Mr. Sidey, of Napier; Mr. Eimslie, of Wanganui ; and Mr. Paterson, of Wellington. No ; these are true Presbyterians to the backbone. We are having a new church erected in Wellington, and I would venture to suggest that, if there be any members of this Court who have doubt iu regard to the union on the ground of our laxity of views, that they be appointed as a deputation to visit Wellington, and assist at the opening of our church, and, by associating and sojourning with us for a short period, perhaps their doubts and difficulties may be removed, and they may see that our mode of conducting the worship is as Scriptural and as Presbyterian as their own. Moderator, iu taking a wide and comprehensive view of this subject—when we find that as a Church we are one in doctrine, and very nearly one in practice—when we look to England, and find that ere long there will he but one Presbyterian Church there—and when we look to America, we also find that the day is not far distant when there will be but one Presbyterian Church there—and when we look to Victoria, we find that one Church there is an accomplished fact, and that there being one has added to their strength and efficiency as a Church. Coming nearer home, and looking to other religious denominations, what do we find 2 One Episcopal Church for New Zealand, one Wesleyan Church for New Zealand ; and why should not we have one Presbyterian Church for New Zealand? But it is said there are geographical difficulties ;—one Church for the whole colony would be unworkable. Why unworkable ! Other Churches can manage to conduct the business of their different organisations to their satisfaction ; why can’t we do the same 2 I had as fellow-passengers from Wellington to Lyttelton the minister and several members of the Congregational Church in Wellington, who were on their way to attend a conference at Christchurch, with the view of forming a Congregational Union for the whole of New Zealand. It may he said that theirs is a deliberative assembly, while ours is both deliberative and legislative ; but this cannot in any wayi affect the question as to the practical working of a united Church for the whole colony. It is my firm conviction that were this union effected there would be developed in the North and in the South an amount of liberality of sentiment toward each other, and an interest taken in encouraging young men to come forward and enter the ministry, that ere long we would have material not only adapted for, but receiving special training to accomplish a special work. The lay community of New Zealand are not satisfied to sit under the ministry of third class men. What we want to occupy our pulpits are the very best men it is possible to obtain, and to secure this they must be obtained from the ranks of our own young men in the colony, and have colonial training a d experience. If the Presbyterian Church of New Zealand is to occupy that position which she is fitted, and I believe is destined to occupy, she must have first-class men in her ministry ; and we ought to see that they are well paid, that they receive salaries more than is required for only a bare subsistence. Where is she to find them ? England cannot spare her best men ! Scotland cannot spare her best men. Hence we must train a native ministry, and to do this well requires the united strength of both Churches. Now, I ask, can this be best accomplished by a Church divided against itself 2 I answer, No. We want a united . Church. We want united efforts. We want a united aim. We want a united liberality. All this and more is required of us to do efficiently the great and important work that God has given us to do in this the land of our adoption. Moderator, I am further sure of this, that if we could be favored with the advice of the late great Dr. Chalmers, it would be, “ One Presbyterian Church for New Zealand.” If we could be favored with the advice of the late generoushearted Dr. Guthrie, it would be, “ One Presbyterian Church for New Zealand.” And if we could possibly be addressed to-night by Dr. Cairns of Berwick, Dr. Dykes of London, and Professor Rainie of Edinburgh, their counsel to us would be, “ Let there be one Presbyterian Church for New Zealand.” And the word of counsel from the laymen of the North to this Synod to-night is, “ Let there be one Presbyterian Church for New Zealand.” (Applause.) The Rev. Mr. Stobo moved : “The Synod, having heard the deputies from the North, records its thanks to them for their excellent addresses, and instructs the Moderator to convey to the deputies the expression of this Church’s cordial sympathy and regard for the Church which they represent, and requests him to intimate the same to their Church.”

The Rev. Mr. Will briefly seconded the motion.

The Moderator then tendered.the thanks of the Synod to the deputies for their excellent addresses. He could not exaggerate the brotherly feeling and sympathy which the Synod entertained for' their Church. As Moderator, it was not for him to offer an opinion either one way or the other, as it was a matter which would come up for discussion before the Synod. He considered that the Church in the North had acted wisely in the selection of her deputies. He had no doubt but their visit to Dunedin would have the effect of increasing the sympathy and regard in which he assured them that they were held by the Church here. The Synod then rose.