POST-SESSIONAL SPEECHES.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 4212, 19 September 1874, Page 2

POST-SESSIONAL SPEECHES.

SIR CRACROFT WILSON AT CHRISTCHURCH. The speech of Sir Craoroft Wilson, already but briefly reported by telegraph, occupies nearly eight columns in the Lyttelton Times of the loth inst. We make the following extracts from the full report of a very characteristic speech THE FOREST BILL AND PROVINCIAL RESOLUTIONS. The Premier introduced a Forest Bill, and any man who has studied the subject as I have done—and I have given a great deal of time iu past years, and of late, to the consideration of the conservation of forests—must be perfectly persuaded, as I am, that the Premier was right in that respect. I can give an instance that occurred close to one of my own properties in which a forest of black birch, nearly 300 acres in extent, was burnt down in the most reckless manner. It will take 200 years to replace it, and if you calculate there were only 150 trees to every acre, which is a..very close allowance, during the first ten years of the growth of a forest, there would be 450,000 trees destroyed in that fire. I say that it is the bounden duty of a Minister, when he knows how much the prosperity of a country depends upon the rainfall of that country-—and we know by experience that the rainfall does depend upon the forests, particularly on the summits of mountains —I say it was his bounden duty to bring in such a Bill. I should have supposed that the conservation of forests iu , a country where we have not too much rain, would have met with no opposition ; hut what was the result ? An acrimonious debate took place. I think four Superintendents attacked this Bill tooth and nail. It was said to be a design to pillage from the Provinces two millions and a-half of their land—[A voice : “ Hear, hear.”] —it was a plan to get possession, by a side wind, of land which the members of the General Assembly had positively refused to give under other circumstances. ■ Well, gentlemen, if any of you think that is right, I only wish he had studied the. subject of forestry as 'much I have, and he would say that it was nothing of the kind. The Premier wanted the Colony to take over the burden of paying the interest on the cost of the railways running through those Provinces which gave up part of their lands for forests. It may be said that it was a fiction, and that they could never pay the interest of ■railways. I am not going into the question now; all I can say is that the reward was offered, and I believe it was offered in perfect sincerity. The debate, became exceedingly acrimonious, more so than quiet and orderly audiences, such as I have been accustomed to see in Christchurch, would credit; for I must say the demeanour of the House of Representatives is everything that the most cultivated and polished society could desire upon ordinary occasions, but there was an acrimony infused into this debate which astonished many of us old members, and which was more particularly displayed by Mr. Fitzherbert, the Superintendent of Wellington. When he adopted this line, an extraordinary thing occurred. Wc all know the name of Sir. Fox, who has been. for the most part a coadjutor of Mr. Fitzherbert since the foundation of the Colony, and ho was actually driven, by the acrimony used and the ingratitude displayed by Mr, Fitzherbert on the part of the Province of Wellington, towards the Premier, to get up and declare that the Premier had been the best friend to Wellington, and had been the making of that Province during the past three years ; and ha said that he was shocked at the line Mr. Fitzherbert was adopting. You know that an angry word begets an angry word ; the debate continued for a long time, and when the Premier rose to reply, he gave Mr. Fitzhcrbert quite as good as he had got from him. In his reply he stated that it was a thankless task—l am not going to give his exact words ; I have brought no Jlnnsavd here ; I have my heart full of what I want to tell you, and I do hot wash to refer to printed hooks—he said that if he had got to finance for ungrateful Provinces who thwarted every attempt of the General Governujent, even when that Government desired to benefit the Provinces and the Colony at large, it would be far better that the Provinces should be done away with than that such a system should continue. In this way these resolutions arose. I am hot going to deny that in the Financial Statement of the Premier he did not say that there were Provinces in the most abject distress ; he said that it was painful to go into their accounts, and suggested that Nelson should- get assistance to the extent of £50,000 for this year, and that Auckland could not move without assistance to the extent .of .£25,000. (Applause.) He said this long before any acrimony had arisen, and it was true that that was the amount of support which he wished to give to those Provinces to keep them on their legs for the current yea-.-. Well, n-entlemen, do you not think that when Provincial institutions have to be supported by money raised, hundreds of miles off, that the functions of those Provinces have been performed, and that they are now ripe to retire into what in private life we should call the obscurity from which they have emerged ? It was high time when such large sums were wanted from the common purse of the Colony to keep them on their logs for the coming year. In this way the acrimony of the debate brought this subject much more forcibly before the mind of the Premier and tile minds of other members, and led to the introduction of those resolutions. You may tell me that this rose in a lit of pique. All I have to say is, it I see a good thing arise, I am not careful as to its source or origin. (Applause.) If I knew a thing was right three years ago, and a fortuitous circumstance occurs, and I see that now is my tune to strike when the iron is hot, do you think that I am going to withold my hammer ? (Cheers.) I wanted to see a stop put to maintaining, out of the money of the Colony, institutions which can no longer do good, and when we had got, what the sailors call, “aslant” to get rid of them, of course I availed myself of that slant and if I had not done so I should have been deserving of blame at your hands. (Applause.) Well, as I tell you, the financing of these bankrupt Provinces had been clearly shown, in the Financial Statement, to be a great burden ; and when, in addition to that, ingratitude, opposition, and virulence were added, why, of course, the man' turns round and says, “ I had better get rid of them.” Shakespeare says — “How sharper than ft serpent 3 tooth it 13 To have a thankless cliila. And why should our Premier be mors considerate than Shakespeare ; To that ingratitude and that virulence and intemperance, we owe the introduction of these resolutions. It was, I think, on the 31st July that this speech of Mr. Fitzherbert was uttered. The Premier replied on the -Jth of August to the opponents of the Forest Bill, and.it was carried without a division. I am now coming to the commencement of this—well, I don’t like to call it “shindy,” which, to an Irishman, at any rate, is very expressive, but I will designate it by an Italian word, and say this fiasco. On the 6th August, the Premier was smarting under what he had heard from Mr. Fitzherbert, and, of course, delighted with the defence Mr. Fox had inade in Ilia favor, ami came down and made what ho calls a Ministerial explanation. He is in the habit of doing these things. He sometimes up and says he wants to say something on'the part of the Ministry, and so we get a Ministerial explanation now and then. He explained that although he would not bring down a bill this session to do away with Provincial institutions in the North Island, he would bring

down resolutions affirming the desirability of such a .step. Notice was given of these resolutions —I need not read them, as you understand what they are, and I do not want to take up your time unnecessarily. Those who had opposed the Forest Bill on the plea that it was a pretext for getting hold of land in certain Provinces, held a meeting. It is reported that at that meeting they wore very irate at this, and were going to do all sorts of things; were going to raise a fund in order to oust obstinate and, unworthy fellows like myself, who had supported the Bill, at the elections. It was proposed at that meeting by one member —I have a way of hearing these things, although I did not procure them by bribing a female telegraphic operator. (Laughter.) I get them in a straightforward, business-like way—it was proposed by Hr. Macandrew, I believe, that Mr. Beeves, the member for the Selwyn, should lead the Opposition, and become Treasurer of the Colony. [A voice : “An honest man, too."] I hope we may be all honest men, and yet tell the. truth. I am going to tell the truth. (Applause.) Well, after this meeting, the Premier moved the resolutions on Thursday, the liith August. I am not going to enter into the long statement of accounts which he gave as a reason that the Provinces had done their duty in the North Island, and that Provincial institutions should exist no longer. He gave a statement for three years of the money he had been obliged to advance to keep them on their legs, and anyone who likes to look at them, and cares for accounts, will find them at page 575 of Hansard, No. 12, 1874. I have abstained from reading you these accounts : they are enough to show that it is wrong to maintain bankrupt institutions ; nor am Ingoing tfl trouble you with the arguments he deduced from them ; they are worth studying, and they will many men, and perhaps make them think that these resolutions should have been passed three years ago. That is the conviction on my mind after reading them, and I recommend those who believe that the Provincial institutions of the North Island should continue to exist, to study these figures. THE ACTION OF MR. o'rOUKE. As soon as Mr. Yogel sat down after the speech with,which he introduced these resolutions, Mr. O’Korke, who was supposed to be Minister of Justice—it is very incomprehensible to me how he ever became a Minister at 1 all; I have in vain tried to find, either from his antecedents or anything connected with him, how he was ever put on the Ministerial bench ; the only conclusion I can come to is that he was a member of the Auckland Province, and they did not know who to put in, and they said, “Oh, let O’Borke go in.” (Laughter.) It is no fiction of my own, it is a fact that if the Ministerial seats are not fairly divided among the Provinces there is sure to be a row, and I presume that Mr. O’Korke was put in as a sort of buffer or make-weight for the Auckland Province. Well, he got up and made a speech which is reported in the same volume of Hansard to which I have referred, and of all the extraordinary proceedings that ever took place in a deliberative Assembly, I think the exhibition that was made by Mr. O’Korke was the most extraordinary. Perhaps, after all, I am wrong. If you” remember the debate in the House of Lords on the Corn Laws, you will call to mind that Lord Brougham, after making a great speech in favor of the abolition of the Corn Laws, went down on his knees and entreated his brother lords to pass'the Bill, in the most fervent terms ever uttered in a deliberative Assembly. I may be wrong, therefore, in saying that Mr. O’Korke’s speech was the most extraordinary that was ever uttered ; it certainly was the most extraordinary that I had ever witnessed, although not, perhaps, that I had read of. Ttyit a man, after being in conference with his colleagues, ami not having declared, “ I must .resign if you insist on introducing these resolutions,” but having merely said, “ Vogel, you cannot expect me to acquiesce in these resolutions of yours ” —that a man who only says this in the Ministerial conference, and waits until the resolutions have been introduced, and then, from his seat as a Minister, turns round and says that he will no longer stand this, and that if he did so, he should deem himself a traitor to bis constituents. [Mr. Naim : “Hear, hear.”] Yes ; I will say to my friend who applauds, but he little thought of the treachery he was at that moment exhibiting—that he was a traitor to his chief. (Loud cheers.) He was personally a traitor to his chief at the very same time that he was parading to the world his innocence of treachery to his constituents. The man who would betray his chief in that wav is not to be trusted by any constituency in the world. (Cheers.) , Why should ha. not" do that to the constituency, when ho does it to the chief under whom ho has served for months, and perhaps years 1 Ho should have said, “ I must resign ; here is my resignation ; I leave your Ministry ; fill up my place.” I could understand that, but I cannot understand ». man waiting till the very last moment, and when the resolutions had been introduced, getting up in his place and making a theatrical disnlay of the absence of treachery to bis constituents, and the presence of treachery to his chief. (Applause.) It was a funny little scene, and I am going to give you some of it. An envelope was brought in by a messenger and given to Mr. O’Eorke—- my informant was a member of the Legislative Council, who was sitting in the gallery immediately over the Ministerial benches. This envelope came while Mr. Vogel was speaking with reference to the resolutions; it-was opened, and the, enclosure taken out, and from it that speech was read by Mr. O’Korke. Who wrote that speech and enclosed it I cannot toll, but those are the facts connected with the ease. I daresay I shall hear something of this, from Auckland ; I hope I shall. I don’t know what course I should have adopted if I bad been in Mr. O’Korke’s place under similar circumstances. Thank God, I have never been treacherous, and I can’t imagine that part of the business, but, at any rate, I would rest on my own bottom. (Cheers.) After this, he took up his hat, walked down the Chamber, and took his seat on the cross-benches. I understand that ha has been in Auckland. They have not burned him in effigy as thev have burned Mr. Vogel. I am a great advocate for cremation; —(laughter)—and all I can say is, so long as they don’t bum me while X am alive I don’t care; they may do as they like afterwards. But don’t ask me to do a dirty act, or tell what I know to be a lie and a falsehood; and don’t ask me to be guilty of treachery to a man who is trusting me, and who believes that I am acting in unison with him, (Applause.) THE MINISTERIAL MAJORITY. By the kindness and consideration and favor of the electors of Christchurch, I hp-ve been a member of the General Assembly since 1861, and I do not think that on any occasion upon which a division was insisted on I have ever soon a majority of twenty-five. I have seen Ministers turned out repeatedly by a majority of one, but such a vast majority I do not think I have ever witnessed before. It proves pretty well that wo all thought the time was come, and that the extravagance of keeping up two Governments where there was no necessity for them should cease. (Cheers.) Let me examine the division list for you and in concert with you. It is said that eleven members out of the sixteen forming the minority held places of emolument under or intimately _ connected with the maintenance of X-’rovincial institutions. When such a thing as this occurs, I am in the habit of falling back upon that education which a kind good father gave me, and X try to call to mind some similar example from the number of histories I have read. Docs no instance strike you, my friends, of some persons whose case is recorded in history, who are very similarly circumstanced to these'eleven. Allow me to suggest one. Did you ever hear of one Demetrius, a silversmith, who resided at Ephesus, and who, calling together the brethren of his craft, created a commotion against the introduction of Christianity, and opposed Paul and bis coadjutors for two reasons—one, that they said the Gods of Demetrius were no Gods, and the other that the emoluments the latter derived from their trade would cease, and their craft be in danger of being set at nought. (Cheers.) I am afraid that we have more than one Demetrius amongst us just now. X will go further, and say there ar» a ip-eat many Dome-

trinses, and I think there are a great many people who in this year of grace lb(4 would not hesitate to cry out, “ Great is Diana of Lie Ephesians 1" (Loud cheers.) CONSTITUTIONALISM. One of the objections I have heard was, that the proceeding was unconstitutional— it was unconstitutional. to do away with Provmcia institutions. Well Js there any man so absurd, certainly none of those who hear me now, who could declare that Provincial institutions are other-wise than transitory ? I ask you to look back to old England.in the early days, when Heptarchy was in existence, mere were then seven Provinces m England; but where would the England of 1874 bo, if the Heptarchy had not been done away with : Wo all kpow that these Provincial institutions were transitory, and all we have to decide is, when have they done their work, when .have they ceased to do good work and when have they become unprofitable and unproductive This is the question we have to decide, and i have no hesitation in saying that the Provinces of Canterbury and Otago, at the present time, are the only ones in which Provincial institutions should be allowed to exist any longer. _ I will vo further, and say, that colonisation havin° been taken up by the General Government,°and public works having been taken up by the General Government, so soon as the land of those two Provinces, Canterbury and Otago, is disposed of, we must then take into consideration, and not till then, whether Provincial institutions ought to last any longer in those Provinces. (Applause.) Now, I may offend some of you, and hurt long cherished feelings, hut I will say this, that it is my firm belief that when Provinces have done their duty they should cease to exist be they where they may. To keep Nelson going, we must give her 1650,000 this ) ear. Is that a price you wish to pay ? They have sold all their land, they have spent all their money, and. now they come to the people of the Colony to enable them to keep up a Government which endorse*the farce of Ministerial responsibility, without a sixpence to pay for it. (Cheers.) I know I am addressing Englishmen of some sense, and you will not think it right to pay £50,000 to keep up the farce of Provincial responsibility, and for no good -whatever. (Cheers.) When the Premier has proved financially that these institutions ought not to exist, and that when members, but, more particularly, the Provincial Secretary of the Province of Taranaki, gave such a clear statement, that his Province at least should not have Provincial institutions any longer, I say can you listen to those who say it is unconstitutional to place on record that which has already occurred, that the Provinces have lapsed ? Are Provincial institutions to be kept up in spite of the fact that the Provinces have lapsed? I am quite certain that none of you will agree to that. I say the Provinces have lapsed ; let us record it, let ns say at once they cannot carry on, double government must cease, and let us try and practice a little economy. I am sure you will agree with me in that. (Applause.) I have always found that if a man wants to oppose anything that is for the good of the Colony, he says, “ It is unconstitutional” As my friend, Mr. Stafford, remarked in the House of Eepreseutatives, 10,000 British troops were moved by one stroke of the pen, -without consulting the people ; was not the - seat of Government taken from Auckland, and removed to Wellington. Did anyone say it was unconstitutional ? It enabled members to meet in the centre of the Colony; not that it is a very pleasant place to go to. I go there because, a$- the soldier says, I have ’listed, but it is very poor fun living” there for throe'months, and you would find it so if you tried it. Well, I shall find no more objections, I hope, on the ground of constitutionalism, because it is just so much nonsense. THE SOUTH ISLAND LAND FUND. Yon may say that my vision is limited, as Sam Weller said oil one occasion. Perhaps it is, but all I can say is that I have tried hard to see the connection between Provincial institutions and the possession of the laud fund, so that doing away with Provincial institutions must necessarily involve the loss of the laud fund. I cannot too strongly insist upon this ; what is there, necessarily, between these two things, the laud fund and Provincial institutions ? Do you mean to tell me that if the land fund is to be expended whore it arises, it matters whether you have a Hoad Board, a Municipal Corporation, or any other form of ’Government ? The facts stand apart, and to say that the land fund Is wrapped up in Provincial institutions is to tell mewhat is not true ; I cannot see it, and I don’t believe it has any connection whatever. The Premier has solemnly declared to us that all land funds shall belong to the locality where 'they have arisen and shall lie locally administered. That nearly satisfied me. But these quondnm supporters of Mr. Vogel, such as Mr. Macandrsw, say, “ Ah, ho says this ; but he is not to he believed.” (Hear, hear.) Well, gentlemen, all I can say to Mr. Macandrew and Ins kith and kin—(laughter)—is this, that the Premier was no selection of mine ; he was no favorite of mine. I have got abused for wanting- him to go gently instead of going fast,but these gentlemen who now say he is not to bo believed, they said at that time, that he conld not go fast enough. . They wanted “ready money, and plenty of it.” TJiey had trusted him for four years, they trusted him within a fortnight of this fiasco, and they gave him four millions without asking a question, and I saw that it was useless for me to ask any questions, and now they turn round, because bo says, “ I will not support Provincial institutions at the expense of the Colony,” and discover_ that bo has become a bad man at once. I think it is Cicero who savs, that no man becomes a perfect villain all of'a sudden, that he goes gently into it, but here is an extraordinary man, you turn round after trusting him to such an extent, and say “lie is a rogue, and not to be trusted.” (Cheers.) Would Mr. Nairn, in his business, believe any man who was found to do such a thing ? Not lie; and I don’t either. I don’t believe you will, on the evidence brought before you. It is a villainous thing for his supporters, I have supported him even against his own supporters. Witness the Bankruptcy Act. I have supported him through thick and thin when his supporters have turned against him. and I say it is a shame to call a man a villain because he introduces a measure which does not suit your fancies, I have thought Mr. Vogel very rash, and I have said so to his face, but I novel’ thought him a dishonorable or base man who would deliberately tell a lie to deceive" the public of New Zealand. I don’t believe it; his quondam friends do; but they have no ground for it, and I refuse to believe them. For the sake of argument I will assume that ho is that rara avis, a criminal steeped in the deepest dye, and , that he is base enough to deceive ns by a positive lie—for that is the assertion. Well, even supposing that he is as base as his quondam admirers now assort him to be, and supposing that be could got a majority of servile members of Parliament to assist him in despoiling, Canterbury and Otago of their land fund, docs anyone believe that such an act of spoliation would be effected by a resolution or even*by an Act ? If such a one is present, I entreat him to listen to what I have to say. In addition to the compact of 1556, the South Island has paid one million sterling as a consideration for the peaceable possession of the laud fund of the South Island. Are the inhabitants of the South Island such miserable poltroons as to sit still under such spoliation ? Should wo not rather warn the Ministry and the North Island that it would bring about a revolution, and that we would resist, even with anus in our hands, such a gross violation , (cheers) —and the result would be that Otago and Canterbury would retain not only their land fund, but their Customs 'and Excise duties, which are worth half a million pier annum. (Applause.) Depend upon it Ministers, though in my opinion they have been foolishly rash, are not so rash as to rouse the people of the South Island to defend their rights by armed resistance, and I for one should bo prepared to continue the struggle to the bitter end. (Ob, oh, and laughter.) I am not speaking in jest. I do not jest on such serious ouFiccts. Apart altogether from the question of Provincial institutions, I would, pro vent one sixpence of our land fund being taken _ against our free will.and o- if „„,p

even armed resistance bad to be employed to protect it. (Hear, bear, laughter and cheers.) It is said that the abolition of the Broyinoes would load to the taking away of, opr land fund, but no .Ministry would be so foolish as to rouse the spirit of resistance which the taking of the land fund would create. (Hear,-hear, and cheers.) If they attempt anything of that sort, we will not only shoot a coach leader, but perhaps a great many more. Only let them come and try it. (Laughter.) I for one wish to live in peace. I have had enough of war ; but, old as I am, if it were necessary for me to fight, lam quite game to fight again. (Cheers and laughter.)' I will lead you, if you like, .and go at it with a halter round my neck, and it they 7 gain the day I will tell them to tighten it. (Hear, hear, and cheers.)