PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 4192, 27 August 1874, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, August 26. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at two o’clock. REPORT. The Hon. Major Richmond brought np the report of the Select Committee on the salaries of officers of the Council, recommending the adoption of the following report: “ That it is essential to the independence and dignity of this Council that the salaries of officers should be placed on the same footing as those of the officers of the Representatives of corresponding positions.” THIRD READINGS. The Auckland Waste Lands Bill and the Taranaki Iron Smelting Works Lands Bill were read a third time and passed. WELLINGTON BURIAL GROUND BILL. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Mantell, the consideration of the amendments made in this Bill by the House of Representatives was ordered to be taken the day after to-morrow. PROVINCIAL PUBLIC WORKS ADVANCES BILL. On the second reading of this Bill, The Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL moved that the Bill be read that day six months. He could not see on what principle these payments were to be made. They knew already in another place it had been resolved that the Provinces should be abolished, next session ; and he thought it would be better for the Government to bring down a Bill appropriating a sum of money to carry on the institutions of a Province where assistance was required, where such services as gaols, hospitals, and lunatic asylums could not be provided for by Provinces, owing to want of funds,' it was the duty of the General Government to step in and carry them on. The Hon. the Colonial Secretary, in moving the second reading of the •Rill, spoke of it being brought down in a benevolent spirit ; he would rather call Provincial institutions, benevolent Thstituflohs.' He hoped the Council would carry the amendment. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE could see no argument brought forward by the Hon. Mr. Campbell sufficient to justify the throwing out of the measure. He understood the hon. gentleman’s objection to be, that another branch of the Legislature had decided to 3o away with Provincial Institutions. But, before that could be done, a decision by the three branches of the Legislature must be arrived at. One branch of the Legislature had simply expressed an opinion; but how far it would be able to give effect to that opinion, had yet to be seen. Great inconvenience would be occasioned by throwing out the Bill, for the simple reason, that among other things, it sought to give effect to certain arrangements that had been entered into between the General and Provincial Governments. He repeated that the only effect of throwing out the Bill, would be to create great inconvenience, and thereby rendering more easy the attainment of the abolition of the North Island Provinces. When that question came forward, he would be found recording his vote in its favor; at the same time he could be no party to endeavoring to create confusion among the Provinces with a view to bringing about a change of that sort. So long as there were Provinces, he would act loyally and straightforwardly towards them, as he would be if he assisted to throw out the Bill. The advances were for public works, and were to be made out of surplus revenue. Had the advances come ont of borrowed money, he would have opposed the second reading. The Hon. Mr. ROBINSON remarked in reference to the confusion that throwing out the Bill would cause, as alluded to by the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse, that that confusion had existed for a very long time past. After remarks by the Hon. Messrs. Paterson, Johnson, Bonar, and Eraser, The Hon. Dr. POLLEN replied. _ The Hon. Captain Eraser had denounced him for not coming down to the Council with a proposition to take charge of the police and other institutions at once. He would point out to his hon. friend that there were still in existence those divisions of the Colony called Provinces, and the General Government had no right or authority to interfere with their local jurisdiction and administration in the manner which his hon. friend desired they should do. No doubt a strong opinion had been pronounced in the other branch of the Legislature as to the necessity for an alteration in the present form of Government. He expressed the hope that the next session or shortly after they would see brought about the change which was so much desired, and which he frankly said he himself very much desired to see. While he had for many years held the opinion that the time for a change in the Government would come, he had always and still held that while Provincial Governments remained in existence, they should, as far as possible, be allowed to discharge the functions that properly belonged to them, and that legitimate and reasonable assistance should be given them when they were not able to discharge those duties. So long as the Provinces existed, the Council ought not to take this process of starving out the Provinces in the way suggested. The second reading was then agreed to.

FIRST HEADINGS. The following Bills were read a first time : David Lewis Retiring Allowance ; Outlying Districts Sales of 'Spirits ; Excise Duties ; Poverty Bay Native Lands Titles ; Wanganui Kiver Foreshore ; and Native Lands Amendment. THE RAILWAYS BILL. On the second reading of this Bill, The Hon, Mr. BUCKLEY moved as an amendment, that it be read that day six months. His chief objection to the Bill lay in the clause having reference to the purchase of railways in Otago and Canterbury, There was no provision whatever made for meeting the debentures, out of which these railways had been constructed. If tbe Colony purchased the lines, the appropriation for their purchase should be carried to the credit of those debentures, which had been guaranteed by the Colony, and for which it was still liable. The value of these railways, so far as he was in a position to estimate it, was in Otago about half a million, and in Canterbury at least a million. He pointed out that these railways were almost entirely constructed out of borrowed money. According to Table A of the Financial Statement, Otago was still liable to the Colony for £1,385,000, and Canterbury for £082,000 ; but there was a still further liability on the part of Canterbury, because a great many holders of debentures out of the Province never came within the consolidated loan, but preferred to remain outside. The Bill meant that not only should the Provinces receive the full cost of the railways, but were also to be relieved of interest and sinking fund, to which they had now to contribute. This was not at alia sound transaction. The Provinces had already borrowed money to construct the lines, and the Colony, as well as the Provinces, was responsible for the payment of the debentures; and now the Colony was asked to borrow money for paying over to the Provinces what had been already borrowed. This was a transaction which only persons pushed in circumstances would resort to, and should not be undertaken by the Government. He looked upon it os a second edition of Provincial borrowing. The Bill provided that the refund of the cost of the railways should be expended by the Provinces on the construction of other railways ; but could not the operation be repeated ? Then came the question, whether railways were wanted in these Provinces. He said, certainly not. The Provinces and the Colony had gone quite far enough. The great thing the Colony should now attend to, was to get the gaps completed as far as possible ; when that was done, it would be time to think about constructing further branches. The Hon. Mr. WATEEHOtTSE seconded the amendment. He said if the Bill passed the individual indebtedness of every adult in the Colony—employers of labor and the employed, the inmates of lunatic asylums and hospitals—would be £2OO, and it was perfectly impossible in the history of the world to bring forward a case where such a weight of debt had to bo homo by so small an adult population. This Bill proposed to borrow money twice in connection with the same undertaking, and having thrown out the Nelson Bill the other evening because it cpntainod the same vicious principle, they were bound to

throw out this one. The Bill was open to the further objection that it was Provincial borrowing in its worst and aggravated form. It also contemplated borrowing wdien no demand for borrowing had actually been made. The Hon. Mr. MILLER thought it would be quite possible to read the Bill a second time, and make such alterations in Committee as might be found desirable with reference to the purchase of railways in Otago and Canterbury. It could hardly be said that those clauses were in reality as Provincial borrowing, although it was admitted that the Government would purchase the lines out of borrowed money, which money would be again expended in the construction of branch railways. The Council should direct their attention to the main part of the Bill—the schedule which included such matters of importance that the Council would not be warranted in throwingthe Bill out. While he was as apprehensive as most people about the indebtedness of the Colony, he had not the slightest hesitation in saying that the effect of the present policy would be to force the Colony into becoming a great manufacturing country long before it would otherwise become so; and to that end it would be necessary to further increase our liabilities. Some such policy would have to be adopted to extricate ourselves from our difficulties when they did come. In Committee, any proposal .to amend the clauses about the purchase of railways would be considered. (Captain Eraser : They can’t bo altered.) Then strike them out altogether, if additional liabilities were to be incurred by the Colony. He did not see why Canterbury should be allowed to come to the Colony to sell her railways for sums like this, when she had derived no end of funds from the Colonial policy. The Colonial policy had been greatly instrumental in awing the Treasury of Canterbury. The same remarks applied to Otago. If the Bill were read a second time, he pledged himself to support in Committee any amendment with reference to the railway purchase clauses, to prevent the Colony being burdened with additional liabilities on that account.

i The Hon. Mr. STOKES thought there were united in the Bill two questions that ought to have been kept separate—the necessary part included the objectionable. There was an attempt to establish the system of Provincial borrowing. But what determined him to at once vote for the amendment, was the vicious principle of incurring two liabilities in respect of the same work.

The Hon. Dr. MENZIES gave a distinct denial to the statement that the same works were being twice borrowed upon, or that the works in question were constructed by the Government. The railways in question were indispensable to the requirements of . the Colony ; and some of them were trunk lines. If they did not now purchase them, they would have to pay more for them afterwards. No doubt the purchase money would, for the most part, go towards the construction of railways ; but he believed some would go towards the construction of harbor works, which in some cases were as essential as railways. And with regard to the South, the extension of railways was very much required. The Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL moved as an amendment, “ The amount of such valuation of such railway shall, as between the Colony and the said Province of Otago, be credited to the said Province, and be deducted from the principal sum due for loans heretofore raised by the said Province of Otago, and for which the Colony is liable, and interest upon the amount of such valuation, as between the said Province and the Colony, shall cease to be chargeable to the said Province from the date of the said valuation.”

The Hon. Major RICHMOND raised the question, whether on an Appropriation Bill such an amendment could not be made.

After an adjournment for the purpose of considering the point, The SPEAKER said that the question submitted for his ruling was, whether the Railways Bill was an Appropriation Bill, and, if it were, whether it was competent for the Council to change or alter it. After careful consideration, and after availing himself of valuable advice, he ruled that the Bill was an Appropriation Bill, but included clauses of a separate and distinct character ; that these clauses might be omitted or amended in the direction of carrying out the general intention of the House of Representatives, from which the BUI was received. He was further of opinion that, even though such amendments should not be strictly regular, still if they did not materially infringe the privileges of the House of Representatives, that House in view of the public interests being furthered by the alterations being submitted for their amendment or acceptance, would give them every consideration.

The Hon. Mr. HART expressed his extreme regret that a Bill of such importance should be brought down within forty-eight hours of the prorogation, when it was impossible to give it fair consideration. Such a proceeding would not be tolerated in any other Parliament in the world. It would do great injury to the credit of the Colony, if it was known on the Stock Exchange what the real objects of the Bill were.

After some remarks by the Hon, Hr. Johnson and the Hon. Mr. Bonak, The Hon. Dr. POLLEN replied. The attention of the Council had been drawn away from the immediate question before it, whether or not the Bill should be read a second time. It was to be regretted—and hero he ventured to express his own sentiments—that on all these occasions when a measure was brought forward to provide for carrying out the policy to which the Colony was committed, they should bo necessarily led into a discussion of what he ventured to call the general question which was discussed exhaustively last session. On the last occasion, on the one hand, they had heard statements that our debt was very large ; and, on the other and official side it was insisted, and he thought with sufficient force and reason, that our debt was shown by the expenditure andliabilities which had been incurred, and was and ought not to be measured by the liabilities or expenditure that might be incurredinthefuture. Iftheykeptthatprincipled view, they would have less difficulty in dealing with such questions. He gave the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse credit for acting up to his conscientious convictions. That hon. gentleman was continually at war with the Council, as to the consequences of the direction and extent to which himself and other members of the Assembly had agreed should be done. They had agreed unanimously that there should be a system of trunk railways. What the Council was now asked to do was to consider what was really a part of that very scheme ; and it would be more practical for hon. members to address themselves to that, instead of wandering off into speculations which had no immediate or necessary application to the question before the Council. Ho had heard, as every person must, who had taken part in the early struggles of colonisation, prophecies of failure and expressions of wonder that the Colony should progress as it had. In these early days they had no exports, yet they lived ; no apparent revenue, yet they made progress. He remembered twenty-five years ago at a public dinner in Auckland, when Sir George Grey was' about to leave the Colony, a distinguished man referring to this point, and stating that when he heard those murmurings and complaints of misgovernment it reminded him of the answer made by a mother to her son, who complained of bad treatment at school—- “ Well, my boy, all I can say is you look remarkably well.” The Colony looked remarkably well, and those who complained most looked as well as anybody. In conclusion, he urged the second reading of the Bill, and any parts of the Bill considered objectionable might be altered or erased in Committee. A division was then taken and the amendment carried by a majority of one, the voting being-—ayes 17, Messrs. Ackland, Bailie, Bonar, Brett, Campbell, G. E. Johnson, J. Johnston, Lahmann, Menzies, Miller, Ngatata, Peacock, Pollen, Eichardson, Eussell, C. J. Taylor, and Williamson. Noes 18, Messrs. Buckley, Chamberlin, Edwards, Fraser, Gray, Hart, Holmes, Kenny, Mantell, Nurse, Paterson, Peter, Pharazyn, Eenvyick, Eobinson, Scotland, Stokes, Waterhouse. ■ ■ DILLS. The amendments made by the House of Eepresentativea on the Burial Bill were agreed to. The Council agreed on the voices to fall

from its amendments on the Licensing Bill. The second reading of the Immigration and Public Works Loan Bill was agreed to after discussion. The Council then adjourned. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, August 20. The Speaker took the chair at the usual hour. detention of the tahauua. Mr. RICHARDSON, in answer to a remark by Mr. Sheehan, stated that the Tararua would be detained till Saturday, and would then go South. The Luna and the Taranaki would go North on the same day, so that members would be able to proceed by them at the close of Parliament. TELEGRAPH AND POST OFFICE AT WESTPORT. Mr. O’CONOR asked when the Government would provide a suitable building for the telegraph and postal department at Westport. There was a fine reserve on which such a building could bo erected. Mr. RICHARDSON said at a small expenditure the existing building could be made serviceable for another year. By that time the Government would be able to determine what they would do with the reserve, and what buildings should be erected. CASE OP IHAKA TE TAI. Sir DONALD McLEAN, in answer to Mr. Williams, said the Government would give effect to the recommendation of the Committee on Native Affairs in this case. GEOLOGICAL INSPECTION. In answer to Mr. Sheehan, Mr. RICHARDSON stated that Dr. Hector would proceed to Mahurangi, central Kaipara, and Wangarei districts, in September, to make a preliminary geological inspection of those districts. NEW SETTLERS. Mr. Richardson laid on the table a return asked for some time ago as to the number of new settlers in the Colony since 186-1. TIME OP DEPARTURE OP MAILS. Major ATKINSON called attention to the extremely irregular manner in which the times of the departure of mails were announced in the lobby. Mr. REYNOLDS said the Post-office Department had no control over the steamers beyond seeing that they did not sail before their advertised hour. Sir DONALD McLEAN said an instruction should be given to the Secretary of the Post-office on the subject. The SPEAKER said such an order had been given a hundred times, and had never been of the slightest use.

Mr. REYNOLDS said the Post-office used every dUigence to ascertain the time at which vessels would sail.

The SPEAKER said what was complained of was that there was a notice on the board that the Taranaki’s mail would close at eleven o’clock that day, but yet the Taranaki was not in the harbor. It, therefore, was perfect nonsence to say that the , Post-office authorities used their utmost diligence. DELAY OF TELEGRAMS. Mr. REEVES complained of delay in the transmission of telegrams. Twenty-four hours had been taken lately in sending messages to Lyttelton from Wellington—a period longer than the ordinary course of post. Sir DONALD McLEAN said inquiries would be made into the matter. VOLUNTEERS. Sir Donald McLean laid on the table a report on the state of the Volunteer force, which was ordered to be printed. REAL ESTATE DESCENT BILL. The adjourned debate on the second reading of this Bill was resumed, Mr. THOMSON was greatly gratified that this Bill, which abolished primogeniture, should have originated. The measure applied, however, only to male persons, in cases of death in intestacy. In his opinion, it should apply to females as well. It also applied to males who had lineal representatives; but why should it not apply to collateral relations as well. He thought the property should be regarded as personal property, and equally divided. Mr. G-. B. PARKER regretted that so important a measure should come up so late in the session. The success of the Anglo-Saxon race at home and abroad, in the army, the bar, and other directions, had been in a great measure due to the principle of primogeniture. Mr. STAFFORD supported the measure, and regretted such a law had not been placed on the Statute-book years ago. When he was in office, he had had a Bill prepared on the subject. He held that when a person died without a will, real property should be dealt with as personal property, and its value equally divided. He should propose to make the Bill apply to female as well as male persons; and though it was introduced late in the session, it had no doubt been carefully prepared and considered. The Bill was then read a second time. Mr. BUNNY said the measure had been drawn by the Attorney-General, and he hoped it would be committed forthwith. The Bill was at once committted, considered, reported to the House without amendment, read a third time, and passed. BURIAL GROUNDS CLOSING BILL. Sir DONALD McLEAN moved the second reading of this Bill, which had come down from the Legislative Council. He explained its provisions. Sir J. 0. WILSON was sorry to see anything about denominations in this Bill. In the Island of Mauritius he had seen the burial .places of persons of all religions in one of the most beautiful cemeteries in the world, and thought all those distinctions should be abolished.

Mr. STAFFOED accepted the Bill as only a step in the right direction. It should be made imperative that there should be a place of extramural sepulchre. He should like to see an imperative measure of general application, providing that after, say two years notice, there should be no interment permitted within towns.

The Bill was read a second time, and committed. Clause 2 was amended so as to include in the exceptions the burial of “a brother with a sister, or a sister with a brother buried previously.” The remaining clauses were agreed to, and the Bill reported and passed. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. The resolutions agreed to by the Committee of Supply on the previous day were reported and agreed to. i Leave was asked to sit again to-morrow. AHIKOUKA NATIVE CLAIMS REHEARING BILL. This Bill was committed. On clause 2, Mr. BEANDON thought that there should be some finality to the decisions of the Native Lands Court. He read a letter from the claimant, in whose favor the Court had twice decided, denying that he had, in an inquiry before independent chiefs, admitted that his opponent had a claim to a portion of the land. Sir DONALD MoLEAN had heard nothing from the hon. member opposite to induce him to depart from his intention to proceed with the Bill. He was desirous to see full justice done in this matter; and though he desired as much as the hon. membSr did to see finality given to the decisions of the Native Lands Court, ho was even more desirous to see a palpable wrong righted. It was evident that claims had been overlooked by the Court that could not be overlooked. The clause and remaining clauses were agreed to, with an amendment to protect more fully the interests of the lev.ee, and the Bill was reported and passed. LICENSING ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Eeaaons were brought up from the Committee for disagreeing with some of the amendments of the Council in this Bill. LIBRARY COMMITTER. The Speaker brought up the report of this Committee. LAND TRANSFER ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. EIOHAEDSON moved tho second reading of this Bill, which referred chiefly to lands which had passed through the Native Courts. The Eegistrar-General reported that the measure was absolutely necessary. Mr. BEANDON objected to proceeding with a Bill that had not been circulated. - .At a later hour tho Bill was read a second time, and passed through all its stages.

OYSTER FISHERIES 1 BILL. In Committee, clause 2 was struck out, and a new clause substituted, empowering the Governor, from time to time, by notice in the Gazette, to describe districts in which, during certain seasons, oysters should be protected, under a penalty. A proviso was added, that the Act should not apply to Natives taking rock oysters for food, or for sale under the provisions of tho Act. Tho Bill was reported to the House, and passed. AUCKLAND IMPROVEMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL, —CLYDE WATERWORKS BILL.—CANTERBURY WATER SUPPLY BILL. Mr. SHEEHAN moved the second reading of tho first Bill.' Mr. T. L. SHEPHERD moved the second reading of the second measure. Mr. BOLLESTON moved the second reading of the Canterbury Water Supply Bill. These motions were agreed to, and the Bills committed, reported, read a third time, and passed. COLONIAL INDUSTRIES. The House went into Committee to further consider the report of the Colonial Industries Committee. Mr. MURRAY proposed to strike out the first resolution, urging upon the Government the consideration of certain proposals for the purpose of insuring the establishment of the manufacture of iron in the Collingwood district of the Province of Nelson; and, failing such resolutions, that the Government should earnestly consider the propriety of establishing iron works on behalf of the. Colony. He proposed to substitute a resolution asking the Government to give favorable consideration to propositions that might be made to them by Mr. Anderson, on behalf of the Parapara Company. After some remarks from Mr. Gibbs, Mr. RICHARDSON said the House could not ask the Government to go and establish ironworks in Collingwood. If the company, or the promoters, were able to show that they were prepared to carry out their prospectus, the Government would give them every reasonable encouragement next session. Mr. GIBBS was satisfied with that expression of opinion, Mr. J. SHEPHARD pointed out the importance to the Colony of the establishment of works in it for the manufacture of rails. Mr. RICHARDSON said the last contract for rails—nine thousand tons —was made, not at £l4 per ton, the figure quoted by the Chairman of tho Select Committee, but at nine guineas, with a prospect of a still further reduction. The promoters, therefore, should take great care in their calculations. In answer to Mr. O’ Conor,

Mr. RICHARDSON said the Government had at present no definite proposition before them.

The amended resolution was then agreed to. The other resolutions of the Committee, as to the manufacture of paper (printing or grey or wrapping), glass bottles, pottery, linseed oil (from seed grown in the Colony), and coal, were agreed to, and the resolutions reported to the House and agreed to. WARD-CHAPMAN INQUIRY. Mr. J. L. GILLIES moved that the evidence taken by the Committee be placed in the hands of the Speaker. Sir DONALD McLEAN asked that the motion be postponed until his colleague (Mr. Vogel), who was absent from indisposition, was in his place. The debate was adjourned until next day. emigrants’ and colonists’ aid corporation. Mr. JOHNSTON' moved,—“ That Crown Grants be issued to the Emigrants’ and Colonists’ Aid Corporation in respect of the sum of £7500 paid on September G, 1873, which Crown Grants have been hitherto withheld as security for the bona fides of the Corporation.” He stated the circumstances of the case. Sir DONALD McLEAN said the Government could not issue the Grants without the consent of the Superintendent of Wellington. He hoped, therefore, the motion would not be pressed, as he was not in a position to support it. Mr. FOX did not understand why the consent of the Superintendent was withheld. It endangered the success of the experiment, and greatly embarrassed the Society’s local agent. Mr. JOHNSTON would not press the matter under the circumstances. It was rather hard on the agent that the’understanding on which he had paid the money to the Government was not observed. The motion was withdrawn. HAWKE’S BAY NATIVE LANDS ALIENATION COMMISSION act, 1872. Mr. TAKAMOANA moved,—“That the report of the Commissioners appointed under the Hawke’s Bay Native Lands Alienation Commission Act, 1872, presented to Parliament, be now taken into consideration.” He brought the subject forward to remind the House that the Maoris were waiting to know what was to be done. Haying done so, he withdrew the motion. MEMBERS OP THE UPPER HOUSE. Mr. MURRAY moved, in a satirical speech, —“That in the opinion of this House, the nomination of tenants of the Crown to seats in the Legislative Council is highly objectionable, and inconsistent with the independence of Parliament.” The hon. member was discussing the subject in a somewhat personal and derogatory manner, when Major ATKINSON asked, as a point of order, whether the hon. member was permitted to call in question the prerogative of the Crown. The SPEAKER said the Government had not objected to the motion being placed before the House, and if he had been asked by any hon. member for his opinion on the subject, he would have pronounced it to be simply an impertinence. Sir DONALD McLEAN hoped a motion would be withdrawn which should never have been put on the notice paper. Mr. MURRAY pressed his right to discuss the motion, but The SPEAKER again insisted with a warmth he thought necessary to the occasion, that the motion was one which never should have been proposed. But that, after consulting the Hon, the Speaker of the other House, he had understood that, although he did not consider the motion a proper one, yet that House would not object to its discussion if this House desired to do so, he would not have allowed the motion to appear on the paper. Mr. MERVYN protested against the Speaker’s ruling. The SPEAKER hoped the hon. member (Mr. Murray) would not persevere, and by so doing bring certain ridicule on the House. Mr. WHITE suggested an alteration in the terms of the motion, to make it an objection to nomination generally, and not to tenants of the Crown only. Mr. MURRAY said this was a great constitutional question. He objected to being accused of being “ impertinent,” and exposed to “ contempt” in this matter. Parliament was the last court of appeal, and it was not right that menshould be made judges of their own case. He had long seen a leaning on the part of the Government to the squatting class. He would not withdraw the motion, but vote upon it, if he stood alone. He submitted his motion, but disclaimed any intention to reflect upon the members of the other House, thinking more of his duty to the country. The SPEAKER : What he had said was that it was an impertinence on the part of any hon. member to attempt to limit the prerogative of the Crown, with which members had nothing whatever to do. Mr. DONALD REID said the motion was one which should commend itself to the support of every member of the House. It was highly improper that all legislation should be interfered with by persons who were personally interested in the most important matters brought before them. If they wore not to express their opinions on a matter such as this, they might not only abolish Provincial Government, but government of every kind. He hoped the motion would' be pressed to a division, holding that the House was quite in order in expressing its opinion to the Government as to how the right of nomination should be exorcised. Ho did not agree with the hon. member for Hokitika that there should be no nomination. Ho thought at one time that the other House should be an elected body, but he had since changed,his

opinion; and thought that the existing system had worked with a fair amount of success.

Mr. EOX had the misfortune’ to prefer the opinion of the Speaker on a matter of Constitution practice to that of the hon. member for Taieri. The motion being before the House, he supposed the only thing to do was to meet it with a direct negative. There were other ways to attain the object. Either a vote of want of confidence in the Government, or a Bill to disqualify certain persons from being members of the other House, should be proposed. He thought a double chamber a necessity, and that so long as an Upper Chamber existed, it was necessary for the preservation of amicable relations that it should be treated with respect. After some remarks from Mr. T. L. Shepherd, who said that there were fourteen tenants of the Crown in a House of forty-five members, The SPEAKER assured the House that his sole object was to maintain the honor and dignity of the House ; and he thought that nothing could be more unfortunate than that it should step out of its way to find fault with the other House, if they wished to maintain their own rights and privileges. Mr. WHITE opposed the motion, and submitted an amendment in support of his views that the second chamber should not be a nominee one.

The SPEAKER objected to the form of the amendment.

Mr. J. L. GILLIES heartily concurred with all that had fallen from the lips of the hon. member for Taieri. The motion did not interfere with the privilege of the Crown. The resolution would not bind the Government in any way. ' It only expressed an abstract opinion that the nomination of tenants of the Crown to seats in the Upper House was undesirable and dangerous to the rights of the public, although at the same time he did not concur in the manner in which the motion had been introduced. Mr. SHEEHAN, held the motion to be of a perfectly constitutional character, although he intended to vote against it. He testified to the value of a nominated chamber. He recommended the hon. member for Bruce to withdraw his motion, which could not be properly discussed at the end of the session, when the only desire of members was to get away. Let the matter come up again at the beginning of next session, when so much old constitutional iron was to be melted down.

Mr. MERYYN said a strong feeling existed that there were too many pastoral tenants in the Upper House. He hoped, however, that the resolution would be withdrawn.

Mr. TRIBE hoped both motion and amendment would be withdrawn. If pastoral tenants should not be members of the Legislative Council, they should be debarred also from being members of the Lower House. Mr. O’CONOR gave the same advice. The resolution was so worded as to embrace many more persons than the class it professed to aim at. The subject could be fully discussed in another session. It was too much to suppose that fourteen or fifteen gentlemen in another place should control the legislation of the country. It grated upon his ear to hear the resolution of the hon. member for Bruce called “ foolish impertinence.” The hon. member, he thought, had only been too modest in the manner in which he had brought it forward. Mr. WHITE withdrew his amendment. After some further observations from Mr. Donald Reid, who expressed his opinion that the country had reason to congratulate itself that the constitution of the country, as regards the two Houses, had worked so well up to the present time, Mr. MURRAY withdrew his motion. He did not object to the principle of nomination as regarded the Upper Chamber, but brought forward the subject as a matter of duty.WANGANUI MAORIS AND PROHIBITION OP THE LIQUOR TRADE.

Mr. FOX moved that the petition of the Maoris of Wanganui against the sale of intoxicating liquors should be printed. Sir DONALD McLEAN concurred in the object in view, and would give his best assistance in the distribution of the printed petition among the Native races. The motion was agreed to. THE ARAWA COUNTRY. Mr. W. EELLY moved that the restrictions placed on sales or leases of lauds in the Arawa country, and in certain districts of the West Coast, should be removed, in accordance with the desire of the Arawas. Sir DONALD McLEAN hoped the hon. member would leave the matter in the hands of the Government. The Arawa tribe had been most loyal, always fighting on the side of the Government, and would receive every possible consideration. He was sure the hon. member would be satisfied with the action the Government would take. Mr. W. KELLY was satisfied to leave the matter in the hands of the Government. The Arawa chiefs themselves desired the removal of these restrictions. The motion was withdrawn. SETTLERS AT TUAPEKA.

Mr. J. C. BROWN submitted a motion having iu view the construction of works at Blue Spur, to enable a large tract of land to be settled upon. As the Estimates had been passed, however, he only desired that the subject should receive the attention of the Government during the recess. Mr. RICHARDSON said he was quite aware of the importance of the works in question. He saw no reason why the Government should not be asked to ascertain what was proper to be done in the matter, with a view to the submission of some scheme next session. After some remarks from Mr. O'Neill in support of the suggestion, and from Mr. MacaKDREW, who suggested that the Government might be authorised to spend the money if they thought it desirable, The motion was pressed iu its original form. Mr. RICHARDSON gave an assurance on the part of the Government that the matter would be taken up, and would be proceeded with next session.

Sir DONALD McLEAN hoped the assurance would he taken, otherwise great difficulties, legal and other, would arise. Mr. J. C. BROWN hoped the House would go into Committee. Mr. REYNOLDS said if the resolution were passed it might involve an , expenditure of £IOO,OOO, though he did not say the Government would go that length, even if the House should adopt the resolution. The suggestion of his colleague, the Minister of Works, should bo adopted. Mr. TRIBE hoped the hon. member for Tuapeka would take the advice of the Government.

Mr. MURRAY said the matter was a very important one. There was abundance of gold there, and he hoped the Government would bo able to take the necessary works iu hand.

After some remarks from Mr. Kelly, Mr. J. C. BROWN accepted the suggestion of the Government, and the matter dropp.ed. The House adjourned at 10.15 p.m. till next day. ■