FORESTS RESERVES BILL.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 4169, 31 July 1874, Page 6

FORESTS RESERVES BILL.

Mr. VOGEL, iii'moving the second reading of this Bill, said hon. members would recollect that at the end of last session the Colonial Industries Committee brought up a resolution recommending the Government ascertaining through the Provincial Government all the information that, could, be obtained upon the subject of forest lands, and in obedience to that recommendation a circular was written by the Colonial Secretary to the Superintendents,, and, some of them in reply had furnished interesting information, which would be found in the paper: which had just been laid on the table. He was aware that the proposal which the Bill started with, viz., t;> definitely establish a system of State forests, was a step in advancement of merely obtaining informa-, tion, and that the subject op which he was about to speak was a new one, andohe to which personally he had not given much attention until very lately. . . . ■ • • • . . . . . . . . The paper laid on the table contained all the information on the subject of State forests that could be found available not only in reference to the, forests of other countries, but also as to what had been done in 1 this country. One part of the paper contained reports of .debates bn the subject, that had taken place in the Hew Zealand Assembly ; another part contained', reports which had been pi’esehted to the House at former times, which ha considered | it" desirable to collect under one volume.. And again, there was the report, which although very bulky, and its contents considerably lengthy, yet ho begged leave to think hon. members would consider very carefully. Hb alluded to the report of Captain Walker,'"of Madras. This report, a copy of which had boon sont to him from India, had • attained a world-wide celebrity. Another paper ho had laid on the table was recently presented to the United States Congress by the Association for the Advancement of Science, and not only had considerable references to Captain Walker's works, contained considerable extracts from it. The

American report he had only received within the last two or three days, and therefore had not been able to have it printed. Captain Walker’s report was well worth reproducing, and preserving in the state in which it was now presented. Although he had not paid much attention to the subject until very recently, it would be unfair to allow it to be supposed that it had not already occupied considerable attention in the New Zealand Assembly. It had attracted considerable attention, not only among present members of the House, but among those who had ceased to be members of it, and in past sessions, had taken a great deal of interest in it. He considered it right to refer to Messrs. O’Neill and Stafford, amongst present members ; and as past members to Mr. Travers and to Mr. Potts of Canterbury. All those gentlemen had taken very great interest in the subject, and had spoken on the question in its various aspects, especially upon the effects of the destruction of forests on the climate of the Colony and in the production of floods. The Legislature at various times had shown a disposition to deal with the subject ; and, indeed, to some extent had done so by the various Acts which had been passed, and by giving bonuses for private planting. He did not mean to say that this system had not anything to recommend it, but it had not, to his mind, much weight, as the establishment of State forests, conducted by the State, should mean their preservation with the utmost care. If the State was to pay for planting it was only reasonable that the result should belong to the State. However, under the proposal which he was about to explain, it was not at all intended to interfere with previous legislation. Private planting would be left in the same position as it now stood. He referred to the valuable reports which were-bound up in the paper Ire had alluded to, especially to those from Otago by Mr. J. P. Thompson, Mr. McArthur, and Mr. Pearson, who, he believed, had spent time and took a very large interest in the forest question There was no end of authorities to show that the effects of the removal of forests was to seriously prejudice ’ climate, to cause floods, to destroy original water-courses, and to wash away soil; and it was an accepted fact that many old countries which had taken a large part in the history of the world had been literally destroyed and rendered abnost unfit for occupation by the destruction of their timber. As much of what he had to say would be in the shape of extracts from various papers which he had read upon the subject, he would place the House in possession of their contents. Most of those extracts were from official sources. [The hon. gentleman here read extracts from the official report on agriculture, despatches from Governor Gregory uoon the destruction of timber in Ceylon, from Dr. Hooker’s report on the same subject, and from the annual report of the AmH-ican Association for the Advancement of Science on the effects of the destruction of timber on climate; on rainfall and floods, from Professor Mavarel, a French writer, who is considered a high authority on the same subjects.] The next branch of the subject to which he invited the attention of hon. members, was the fallacy of supposing that the timber supply of the world was inexhaustible because forests were large. Any conclusion as to the extent of forests must be very speculative. Of course it must not be supposed that the term forest -was convertible into the supply of useful timber. Indigenous forests untended and uncared, produced nothing like so useful or prolific a supply _ of timber as forests reared for the purpose. Still, as a matter of interest he had ascertained, and only in the vaguest possible manner the extent of" forest lauds in different' countries. If in countries where it was thought the forest land was inexhaustible, and still it was considered necessary and desirable to inaugurate a system of careful management, what must be the case in a country where the supply was limited and the forests comparatively small ? Brown estimated for Britain 2,000,000 acres of woodland, equal to about one-twentieth part; all Europe, 500,000,000 acres of woodland, equal on average to nearly 20 per cent. ; France, 18,000,000'acres of woodland ; Russia, 3.000. acres, equal to 30 per cent. ; Switzerland, 1,500,000 p.c.-es ; Norway and Sweden, 80.000. acres; Spain and Portugal, 6,000,000 acres, equal to about 5 per cent. ; Netherlands, 570.000 acres ; Germany, 50,000,000 acres ; Belgium, 1,400,000 acres ; Denmark, 500,000 acres ; Turkey and Greece, 10,000,000 acres ; British North America, 900,000,000 acres; United States, 560,000,000 acres; South America, 700,000,000 acres. Reutzsch, a German writer quoted in the American report, gave the following per centages of woodlands : —Norway, 61 per cent. ; Sweden, 60 ; Germany, 614 ; Sardinia, 12:[ ; Holland, 7 1 ; Spain, 54"; Belgium, 18j ; Franco, 16f ; Switzerland, 15 ; Denmark, 5 J ; Great Britain, 5; and Portugal 4J. The same report gave as by the census of 1870, the area of woodland of the United States as 380,000,000 acres, or about 15 per cent, as against 25 per cent, in the previous instance. But these were not all State forests. Some of the information in reference to forests, especially the German forests, was very interesting. The science of forestry owed very much of its development to Germany. The forests of Hanover, which were under State management, were over 900.000 acres in extent; and the annual yield from them for four years was 45 million cubic feet; the annual receipts, £300,000, and the annual expenditure £102,000, of which ittle more than half went for working expenses, the balance being for establishments, land tax, rent, &o. Bavaria had purely State forests 2.318.000 acres,, the receipts from which were £1,071,000, and the ordinary expenditure for establishments, working charges, planting and construction of roads, £446,000, extending, buying up rights, £47,000, or profits, £596,000, to which was to bo added the value of rights, or given away, nearly £200,000, making the total profits £785,000 per year. In 1871, the Prussian State forests yielded 214,700,000 cubic feet, the income being £2,100,000 ; disbursements, £1,200,000, and the profit little less than a million. It was impossible to avoid trenching upon the cognate subjects of importance of maintaining forests and the disastrous effects of their destruction, although he had. referred to them separately, and to the enormous demand for timber. Brown, in his “Forester',” estimated that in 1869 Great Britain required annually 40 million cubic feet for mining operations, there beiug 4000 mining establishments in the country. This was a significant fact, for New Zealand’ promised to become a great country for mining operations. It was also estimated that Groat Britain required for 14,000 miles of railway, 20 million cubic feet annually. [The hon. member here read extracts showing the extent of the forests of the world, and their destruction.] It was now important to understand what the art of forestry meant. He had heard of large forest departments established in different parts of the world, especially in India, the officers being allowed to travel; but ho had no conception of all that the art , of forestry really meant,'or how-universally, to all climates and countries, the great principles of forestry were. [The hon. member here read Brown’s definition of practical forestry.] There seemed to be a growing feeling throughout the world of the necessity for dealing comprehensively with this huge matter. At the International Congress of Land and Forest Culture, held at Vienna last year, the following resolutions were addressed to the various Governments of the world :■— Wo' recognise tho fact that, in order to effectually 'check tho continually increasing devastation of forests which is being carried on, international agreements arc needed, especially in relation to the' preservation and proper cultivation (for-the end in view) of those forests lying at the sources and along the courses of the groat rivers, since It ia known that through their irrational destruction tho results are a great decrease of the volume of water, causing detriment to trade and commerce; the filling up the rivers bed with sand, caving in of tho banks, and inundation of agricultural land along its course. . ’ . . Wc further recognise it to bo tho mutual duty of all civilised lands to preserve and cultivate all such forests as arc of vital importance for the well-being—-agricul-tural and otherwise— of the-land, such as those on sandy coasts, on tho sides and crowns as well as on the steep declivities of mountains, on the sea coasts and other exposed places, and that international principles should be laid down, to which the owner* of such ’protecting or."guardian” forests bo subject, thus to preserve tho land from damage. t In France, the greatest attention was, devoted to the subject of forests ; America was awakening to the necessity of interference, but was hardly yet able to realise tho effects of tho destruction of forests, which had been so

long regarded as hindrances to settlement rather than as a most valuable resource. In Austria, the management of forests had recently been transferred from the Minister of Finance to the Minister of Agriculture. In Switzerland, the subject was of such immense importance that the remodelling of the Constitution was being considered, with the view of the Federal Government assuming control of the forests. In Canada there had been a large amount of legislation on the subject, directed rather to making provision by which restrictions were imposed on those who obtained licenses and used forest lands. In Sweden the laws were most stringent. Private owners were required to plant and protect from cattle, two timber trees for every one cut down ; owners of private forests were strictly prohibited or regulated as to cutting trees ; a proposal was to be considered last year—he did not know with what result—preventing owner's of private forests from cutting down trees of less than a stated diameter ; in fact, the Government were endeavoring by every means possible to buy up the forests already alienated from the Crown, Victoria had done little more than recognise the enormous magnitude of the question and the need for action. Under the Land A cts the Governor had the power to reserve lands for state forests, and to regulate the mode of using such forests. But nothing like a comprehensive system had been adopted. All that could be said was that they had succeeded in very much lessening the destruction of forests, and that on a small scale they were treeplanting. In South Australia, the importance of the question had been recognised; but as yet nothing had been done. After referring to Mr. Caloutt’s opinion, that if £IO,OOO were properly spent in planting, the trees would in thirty years have a market value of a million sterling, he alluded to the calculations of Mr. Goyder, SurveyorGeneral of South Australia, who recommended that a reserve of 300 square miles, equal to about 200,000. acres, should be .made. His estimate of the first year’s expenditure was £14,000 ; second and each subsequent year, £10,500. According to that scheme, the results of which he (Mr. Vogel) thought Mr. Goyder was too sanguine in estimating, but the figures showed the enormous profits of treeplanting —five year's must elapse after commencement of operations before any return on the outlay could be expected ; from the sixth to the ninth years, £35,000 would be realised ; from the tenth to twelfth, £70,000 ; and this latter would continue to be realised until the end of the seventeenth year, when it would again decrease to £35,000, that was, at the end of the twenty-fifth year, when the country would be in possession of three hundred square miles of matured forests. He now came more particularly to the question as it affected New Zealand. Among the papers_would be found a calculation by Dr.' Hector, showing the per-centage of forest land in New Zealand, and its rate of destruction during the years ISGO, 1868, and 1873. He might say that Dr. Hector does not consider these figures anything more than mere approximations, and in many oases it was impossible to give anything like the exact figures. The abstract showed that, in Auckland, the destruction of forest amounted in 1868 to 58'75 ; in Taranaki it was 10'0 ; in Wellington, 20'0 ; in Hawke’s Bay, Co'B2 ; in Nelson, 16'6 ; in Marlborough, 12'5 ; in Canterbury, 10'0 ; in Westland, 5'0,; and in Otago, 12'34. During the next five years there was a further destruction, which amounted in Auckland to 27’27 per cent. : Taranaki, ll'l ; Wellington, 25'0 ; Hawke’s Bay, 30'5 ; Nelson, 20'0 ; Marlborough, 25'57 ; Canterbury, 33'3 ; AVestlaud, 21 'OS ; Otago, 10'71. Whether correct or not, these figures are very suggestive of what he thought every hon member must know to be the case, although we have not the power to see the practical effect throughout the Colony, the destruction' of timber had gone on at a most alarming rate. There could be no question that natural bush was not so valuable as planted fox-est. In the Otago report was the following remarkable statement as to the value of artificial grown bush :—“ The advantage of full grown artificial plantations would be that every single tree could be turned into the proper stuff—not one nineteenth, as is the case with the natural growth.” Another thing that was very remarkable to Ids mind was the proportionate care given to the management of State forests : the people as they became accustomed to the value of forests also became sensible of the necessity for protecting them from fire. In Germany it would be considered as heinous to set a forest on fire as to set a house on fire ; but in New Zealand a man would have little hesitation in lighting his pipe or boiling his billy of water, and endangering a whole forest, extending over many thousand acres But forestry was as much the utilisation of existing forests as the production of fresh ones. In Westland, Taranaki, and Wellington, it might be argued that there was already too much forest laud; and forests required to be cleared. Putting aside for one moment the impolicy of recklessly destroying forests, experience shows the rapidity of their destruction. It was rather difficult to realise large numbers. Let them suppose they had placed before them_ extensive figures which only underwent a slight process of exhaustion ; or let anyone be placed in a room where there were 100,000 sovereigns, be would hardly suppose that such a sum could be expended; but if he was connected with the Government of the country, he would soon form a very different opinion. (Laughter.) So with our indigenous forests. When the House came to consider that in the State of New York alone, 50,000 acres were required each year for railway use alone, it would be easy to understand how futile it was to speak of forests being inexhaustible, unless something was done in the way of replacing them. He said this on behalf of those Provinces which were well timbered; not only for timber but for climate, and pleaded for them some alienation —it would be very small—as a forest estate for the whole Colony. Before dealing with the question of the establishment of State forests, the chief difficulty hi entering upon such a large question was to reconcile the peculiar circumstances aud interests of the Colony in a comprehensive system of management. The first question arising was, how was it to be dealt with by the Colony without infringing and invading Provincial rights to an extent that would make it impossible to be sanctioned by the Assembly. He had" before now practically .evinced his desire, aud had never failed to do justice to the rights of the Provinces, and to the usefulness of Provincial Governments; but he had never hesitated to express his opinion, that where it was necessary to do so for the good of the Colony as a whole, the Provinces must give way. He was convinced that New Zealand would be found to be similarly situated as India iu regard to this forest question, where it was found necessary that it should bo dealt with by the Central Government, and not by tho Provincial ones. It would be unfortunate if such a country as New Zealand were not able to obtain the best skilled assistance, aud they certainly could not hope to do so if the various Provinces were to have a separate and independent forest department, if they so chose. Ho was glad to see a disposition now being shown by the various I’roviiices to attend much more carefully to the : matter than formerly. Notably, in Otago and Auckland, a 4arge amount of attention had been given to the tree-planting question, and he begged leave to think with beneficial results. He had thought over many plans of dealing with this question.. Of course, they could have no forests without laud • and land was a matter about which the Provinces were particularly tenacious. If the' Colony expended the money, and the Provinces provided the land, there would be such a demand for expenditure as it would be impossible to meet. On the other baud, if the Colony spent the money aud had the laud, there might be a probability of some rigid rule being laid down. It became evident, after full consideration, that the only way of settling the matter was to deal with the. Provinces rateably and by a per-centage. He concluded that the following conditions were necessary to carry out any plan which was likely to receive the support of the Legislature. These were —first, that the scheme should be of a Colonial character: i.c., that so far as State forests are concerned, the Colony should have the absolute control of forests tliat should bo developed into State forests, but the

Government will avoid any action with existent forests which would be liable to disturb existing industries by stopping the use of the timber of the country required for current purposes ; and if this system became as successful as they imagined it would be, means were provided for including other forests under the same- management. Several large Provinces had not hesitated to show their willingness to grant bonuses to private individuals in the shape of land for planting trees, therefore there could be no objection to give land to the State—the Central Government. However, they proposed that some more absolute inducement might be held out, and they came to the conclusion that it would be desirable, in proposing to take a certain amount of land in each Province, to give such Province quid pro quo in exchange. Until lately it had been the custom in connection with Now Zealand accounts to set apart annually a sinking fund —a practice- that was very much objected to, and latterly the fallacy of sinking funds had been understood iu New Zealand. With the exception of some cases, in which such a process was necessary, they did not agree with sinking funds, but iu the present state of the law, Provinces had to pay sinking fund on the cost of the railways. This was necessary because the Colony was responsible for their debts. A penny invested annually as sinking fund at something like five per cent., would give in the course of thirty-five years something like 150 times the original amount. So, iu the course of time, State forests would possess an enormous aggregate value, and would be available for the purpose of extinguishing the public debt of the Colony. Acting upon that principle, the Government came to the conclusion that the Provinces should hand over to the Colony three per cent, of the whole of their lands, to be set apart as State forests : and in return they would relieve the Provinces of interest and repayment of principal on the cost of constructing the railways. He thought it would be found on reckoning uji the amounts which the railways would cost the Provinces, aud the amiunt of the annual payment of one per cent, for sinking fund, that the , exchange will be a very profitable one for the Provinces He thought further that the proposal came particularly well from them to hand over State forests to those who came after them, and to say to them, “ We have borrowed money, by which we have covered the country with railways, aud endeavored to create homes for a large population. We liaise taken care not to injure the climate, aud we now hand to you these forests, which will more than pay the liabilities we have devolved on you." It was very much the custom to compare what they did in this Colony with what was done elsewhere and it was an assertion that was amply borne (Bit —and he believed that this Colony, as were other Colonies, was iu a better position to deal with this question than many of the large countries of the world. Here we had land belonging to the State, entirely free and unencumbered, while the difficulties met with in Europe, and notably Germany, were iu extinguishing various rights over the soil, and iu the latter place large sums of money had been expended in purchasing land which interfered with the proper management of State forests. The object and scope of the measure he was proposing was to take laud which was absolutely free, for State forests, and to apply to them in the best possible manner the benefits that experienced skill could devise. He would nowdirect attention to the provisions of the Bill. They proposed to take £IO,OOO a year from the Consolidated Revenue, to devote to tree planting ; and proposed to have the right to select three per cent, of the lands throughout the Colony for the purpose of conserving and creating State forests. The selection would be made under conditions which effectually—as it appeared to him—prevented the alienation for such a purpose of lands of exceptional value, or iu approximation of towns. Among other things, provision was made for establishing towns in forests. No doubt, if the system came to be the success which it was desired to be, one of its most useful purposes would be to establish in connection with -the forests of the Colony towns similar to those which had been so successful in the European countries t o which he had referred. The whole of the money proposed to be taken from the Consolidated Revenue—£lo,ooo annually—would be placed at the disposal of the department for the purpose of planting and maintaining forests, and the department would also hold the revenues arising from the whole of the forests. With one exception, it was not proposed to expend any money without the authority of Parliament. The exception was in regard to the selection of the chief conservator of forests. This was the solitary exception. The provisions in the Bill preventing unfair selection, would commend themselves to the minds of hon. members." Further, the Bill absolutely released the Provinces from all payment on account of sinking fund for the railways now being constructed under the Public Works and Immigration Act. Power was given, of a purely voluntary character, to arrange with Provincial Governments for the management and acquisition of larger forests than those included iu the area to be taken absolutely. The hon. gentleman then spoke as’ follows ; I hardly think I need apologise for detaining the House so long. What I have to apologise for is inadequately dealing with the subjectdealing with it having very little real knowledge of it, except what I have gained by laboriously culling the knowledge aud opinions of others, but I desire to plead on behalf of New Zealand that whilst we are developing and improving the Colony by means of great public works, we should not lose sight of its "■reat natural features, without which we cannot make attractive use of the country nor make it attractive as homes for the industrious. It is quite possible the House may not consider it desirable to decide this question this session. I admit it is one of a very large nature, but while the Government are anxious that it should bo dealt with this session, we must feel almost a sort of pride aud gratification if this Parliament, which has done so much iu favor of the construction of public works, would make provision not only for those public works hut for the means of repaying them, and endow the future with what would no doubt be a most magnificent property,— more valuable than the railways themselves—which will not only preserve the value of the country, but provide means in the future for an industrious population. Whilst I cannot help thinking that it would be wise on the part of the Colony to deal with the question at once, the House may possibly think it desirable not to do so ; at any rate, no harm' can come of the subject being ventilated, and some portion of the session, however short it maybe, may be devoted to this very important question. It is the question of questions for New Zealand, so much so, that it is fairly a question whether in the absence of a system of replacing and talcing care of our forests we ought to allow a single foot of timber to leave the Colony. We have enormous need for timber iu the future ; are we to use and to forget that we are exhausting ? If we do deal with this question, let us he content with nothing hut the very best plans, the most scientific treatment—that treatment which ’experience shows to be the soundest.. I claim for New Zealand in this matter a something to cling to for generations, which shall shape its futui-e, decide its climate, its adaptability for settlement, its economical value, its beauty, its hcalthfulness, its pleasure-bestowing qualities. I claim for it in this matter the best, the. very best that we, iti founders, can initiate. I see that between the rougli-and-ready idea of unskilled planting, burning off stumps, and setting out nursery plantations—and that scientific care of forests I have indicated, including the planting, thinning, cutting, and transport of timber, construction of roads and bridges, changing from one cultivation to another —in short, a disposition, not of the hour nor of the day, but of the generations, the ages, as in Germany aud Scotland—as much difference as between the paper boats'[of boyhood and the grand ships with which Great Britain controls the commerce of the world. Recognising tho vast gulf which separates the different modes of treatment, shall we allow the Colony to abide under the worst conditions, when it is in our power to favor it with the best ? That is the question which this Bill asks you. (Cheers.) Tho debate was then adjourned.