PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 4161, 22 July 1874, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, Jcly 21. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2 o'clock. ELECTORAL BOLLS. The Hou. Mr. MENZIES asked the Hon. the Colonial Secretary,—•" Whether the Government proposes to introduce in the course of this Session any Bill to provide for the revision and correction of Provincial Electoral Bolls." His object was to draw the attention of the Government to the mistakes constantly occurring in the Provincial Electoral Bolls in case any new Registration Act should be brought forward. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN said the matter had already been brought under consideration, but there was very great difficulty in dealing with it. At present it was not the intention of the Government to introduce any Bill this Session, but the serious attention of the Government would be given to the matter. BURIAL GROUNDS. The Hon. Mr. MANTELL'S motion for leave to introduce a Bill intituled, " An Act to regulate Burial Grounds in the City of AVellington," was postponed till Tuesday next. APPOINTMENT OF A SURVEYOR-GENERAL. The Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL, in moving the motion standing in his name, —" That in the opinion of this Council, having regard to the fact that the General Government guarantee titles to land under the Land Transfer Act, it is expedient that a Surveyor-General be appointed, to inspect the different surveys of the Colony, and report to the Government a 3 to their accuracy,"—said he had brought it forward in the hope that it might induce the Government to place the necessary sums upon the Estimates with the view to the appointment of a Surveyor-General for the whole Colony. At the time the Land Transfer Act was passed, he had pointed out it ought not to be passed in the shape of guaranteeing the titles to land without those who had the granting of the guarantee having some control over the surveys. They all knew that where a large amount of land was being sold, and where there was a great demand for surveyors, it was impossible that competent men could be appointed where the Provinces could not pay them such a salary as would induce them to undertake the surveys. Although the subject had been brought before them by the Begis- ' trar-General, no steps had been taken to correct the titles. The matter was not at all a to new one. Guarantees of titles had been made the value of £2,500,000 over land of which there was no means of testing the surveys. Without suggesting auy particular method, it would be a good thing if a Surveyor-General were appointed with an efficient staff to go into the different Provinces and inspect the surveys, 'and if the Provincial Governments were warned that if they did not carry out the surveys of their lands in a proper way, the General Government would take it themselves. The Surveyor-General and his staff would bring a report on ill-conducted surveys annually before Par.iament, and then the Government could take the necessary steps to bring these surveys under the operation of the Colonial Government. Without referring' to the state of the surveys in any particular Province, those in Otago were exceedingly good, where a system of major triangulation had been earned out by competent men. In Canterbury there was no major triangulation, and, because of insufficient surveys, there were liabilities of hundreds of thousands, perhaps, which would increase to millions and millions were not the titles guaranteed, according to exact surveys, under the Land Transfer Act. With permission of the Council he would read an extract from the report of the present Begistrar-General, which would shortly be laid before the Council. Mr. Williams says : " I would again respectfully call your attention to the unsatisfactory state of the surveys in many parts of the Colony. "The first practical step in dealing with this matter would appear to be the appointment of one or more highly qualified and independent professional men to inspect and report on the condition of existing surveys, and the mode in which surveys are conducted throughout the Colony. " The Government would thus be placed in full possession or the facts and have detailed information. "The want of some responsible officer to whom questions of survey can be referred i 3 much felt by the Land Transfer Department. I have occasionally questions of the kind referred to me which I am obliged to determine with such aid as I may be able to procure. I have also to decide upon the qualifications ot persons who apply to be licensed as surveyors under the Land Transfer Act. These are responsibilities which in the Australian Colonies devolve upon the Surveyor-General of the Colony, and which certainly should not be imposed on any non-professional man. "The question of the appoiutment of some such officer, who would also inspect the local survey offices, gradually organise some uniformity of system, and perhaps ulimately carry out the major triangulation of the Colony, seems worthy of serious consideration." That the Begistrar should be called upon to decide as to the competency of surveyors was not a position in which things should be allowed to remain, and endeavors ahould be made to organise some steps Jto prevent this enormous liability, with proper inspection. In the House of Bepresentatives the Government had proposed last year a vote of £SOOO to commence and organise some department in connection with this work. However, it was not agreed to, and nothing was done subsequently ; and it was in hope that a certain sum might be placed upon the estimates, that the present motion was brought ferward. He did not mean that the Surveyor-General should try to find out mistakes, but that he should be told to go round the Colony, and be able to report to the Government on the surveys which were being undertaken, and suggest any alterations he might think desirable. He (Mr. Campbell) believed there were at present in the Colony one or two men who were perfectly competent to take the appointment of Surveyor-General. He was sure the £SOOO would be voted this session, and he was equally sure that it would be the commencement of a system which would be full of advantage to the Colony. The Hon. Colonel BRETT did not think it was possible that a report could be presented unless a trigonometrical survey of the country were made. The staff must have points, lines, and bases to work upon before any comprehensive report could be issued. He believed the work of the Survey Department was admirably performed in Canterbury, under a very able and zealous officer, and he had heard no complaints. He considered, therefore, it would be putting the Government to very great expense to have a report made which might not be absolutely necessary.. The Hon. Captain FBASER observed that the surveys of some lands for the last thirty years had not been inspected, and the object of his hon. friend was to prevent the Government being involved in great liabilities from the land overlapping. The Hon. Mr. WATEBHOUSE thought the subject was of an importance which they could scarcely exaggerate, and which had been declared in a plain way in consequence of tho operation of the Land Transfer Act. When that Bill was under consideration, he had called attention to the fact that it would necessitate more competent surveys. If a SurveyorGeneral were appointed, there would be no end of conflicts with the Provincial Survey Departments. .Public opinion was not sufficiently ripe yet in the Colony to allow of nurvey officers being placed under the inspection of Surveyor-General of tho Government, and unle.is these officers were put under tho eye of tho Surveyor-General, he did not see that very much practical advantage would result from the appointment. Tho first thing was to effect a complete trigonometrical survey of tho ■whole of the Colony. A pretty accurate survey was in course of progress in Wellington. He did not know how far Otago and Canterbury were advanced ; but the advantage of a trigonometrical survey would bo enormous in a Province like Canterbury. The Government last session had introduced a motion to place a sum upon the estimates to complete a trigonometrical survey of the whole Colony, but objection was taken to it by the Provincial Surveyors, and the vote was not passed, and this was partly owing to tho course pursued, for he did not think the object was to be effected by putting » sum upon the Estimates, but by introducing a Bill which would enable vigorous action to be taken by the Government, and he was. very much inclined to think

that the best course for his hon. friend to pursue would be to move for the appointment of a select committee to take evidence and report to the Council upon the subject. The evidence forthcoming would be so overpowering in its effect as to necessitate Government and Parliament making some final provision for insuring the accuracy of the surveys. The longer the matter was put off the greater would be the need and also the expenses. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN agreed with those hon. members who held that the Council and •the public Vere alike indebted to the gentleman who had so persistently urged the necessity for some reform in the surveys of the Colony. The question was raised in the last session, and the attention of the Government promised towards initiating some improvement in the existing state of affairs. There were at that time before the public two reports sent to the Government by Mr. Moorhouse, the Begistrar-General of Lands, originally appointed under the Land Transfer Act. After that there was a further report by a conference of Chief Surveyors under the direction of his hon. friend (Mr. Waterhouse), who was at that time Premier, who endeavored to meet the requirements of the ease. They were guided by the suggestions of Mr. Thomson of Otago, whose report was appended to their report furnished to the Government. Mr. Thomson said the whole survey of the Colony could be carried out in a proper way at a cost of about £0,700,000. Those persons who took a merely superficial point of viewwere probably alarmed at the sound of so many millions, but in these days we have become more accustomed to those figures (hear, hear, and laughter), and the question may be reconsidered. One of Mr. Thomson's recommendations was for a " standard" survey, which he defined to mean the astronomical, geographical, and geodetical plotting - down of every part of the Colony. He estimated the cost of initiating such a survey at something less than £500,000, and the Government invited the House to put a sum of £SOOO to begin carrying this out, being confident that if once begun there woidd be no difficulty in prosecuting the work to a satisfactory end. Yet they did not succeed in getting the vote ; but another effort would be made, which he hoped would be more successful. The Government were perfectly alive to the importance of the question, and whatever might seem necessary to give effect to the recommendations of the surveyors, and of the Begistrar, would be done. He (Dr. Pollen) did not think the resolution which the hon. gentleman invited the Council to come to was the very best, but he did not desire to oppose the motion, which would at all events elicit the opinion of the Council as to the subject itself, the Government not being bound to keep to its limits too strictly. The Hon. Dr. MENZIES thought the motion very important, but hoped the mover would agree to some amendments, for such a motion, if earned out to the letter would lead to more serious complications than seemed to be anticipated. The Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL, in reply, said, as regarded Mr. Waterhouse's remarks, that the probability of conflicts occurring between the Surveyor-General and different Provincial surveyors could be got over in this way : The Land Transfer Act was so popular that if the Surveyor-General informed the Government that the surveys were being | imperfectly performed, the Government might safely bring in a Bill to compel their reformation in the district in which that insufficiency I was complained of. He had brought forward the motion to direct the attention of the Government to the matter, and to get something done to effect the object which it embodied. Motion agreed to without dissent. MANGONUI LAND GRANT. . On the motion of the Hon. Dr. POLLEN, leave was given to introduce a Bill to empower the Governor to carry out a certain engagement for a grant of land situate in the Mangonui district, in the Province of Auckland, and the Bill was read a first time. SECOND READINGS. The Supreme Court Judges Bill and Post Office Savings Bank Bill were read a first time, and the second readings fixed for Friday next. INSPECTION OF MACHINERY BILL. This measure was further considered in Committee, and reported to the House, the third reading being made an Order of the Day for Thursday next. WESTLAND LOAN ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN moved the second reading of this measure, the provisions of which he briefly explained. He pointed out that, during last session, Parliament had authorised the expenditure of certain sums, the payment of which was authorised from the general revenue. It was found, however, that some outside creditors had declined to recognise the provincial authorities, and payment was therefore asked to be authorised by this BUI. The Bill was read a second time, committed, and the third reading made an Order for Tuesday next. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, July 21. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o'clock. PETITIONS. Among the petitions presented was one handed in by Mr. Pox from the directors of the Colonial Bank praying to be incorporated. Mr. O'Neill presented a petition from miners and engine drivers at the Thames, praying that a clause should be introduced into the Regulation of Mines Bill, providing for eight hours' labor. WINDING UP OF MINING COMPANIES. Mr. BBADSHAW asked,—" Whether the Government had received the report of the Commissioner appointed to inquire into the general working of the several offices of the Official Agent and Official Audit at Auckland under the Mining Companies Limited Liability Act, 1865, and Acts amending the same ; and especially to inquire into the way adopted to prove debts and claims, the amount of law and T>ther costs incurred in winding-up of companies, how and under what authority incurred ; and to the amounts actually received, the disposal and dates of receipts and disposal of such amounts, and the time taken in the windingup of each company ; and if the report has been received, if the Government will lay it on the table of this House." Mr. O'BOBKE replied that the Government had received a report on the subject which they would lay on the table shortly. ADDITIONAL TELEGRAM WIRE. Mr. CUBITS allowed the following question to lapse :— ■" If it is the intention of the Government to complete the connection between Nelson and the Lyell, so as to have a second line of telegraphic communication between North and South of the Colony, available in case of accident to that at present in use ; and if so, when." THE OTAGO OGLD DUTY REPAYMENT ORDINANCE. Mr. PYKE asked,—" Whether the Government had advised the disallowance of the Otago Gold Duty Repayment Ordinance; and, if so, whether ho had any objection to lay upon the table of the House a statement of the grounds upon which such disallowance has been so advised." Mr. VOGEL replied that the Government had recommended the Governor to disallow the Ordinance, and it had been disallowed accordingly. He would read to the hou. gentleman a letter sent to the Superintendent of Otago, which explained tho whole circumstance. If thero was any desire that it should be laid on the table, he had no objection to do so—(hear) —but it would in due course como bofore the House in connection with the papers relating to the disallowance of Provincial Ordinances. When the hon. member heard that letter read, he would be quite satisfied that tho course adopted by the Government was a right and proper one. Colonial Secretary's Office, Wellington, 18th July, 1874. Sin,—l have the honor to Inform you that the Governor has disallowed " Tho Otago Gold Duty Repayment Ordinance, 1871." His Jixcellency was advised to take that course, because there (lid not appear to be sufficient provision in tho Dill to prevent tho repayment of gold duty being made for gold, the produce of other I'rovinces, being shipped from Otago. Although tho aecond section of the Bill refers to the gold as being the produce of Otago, tho third section requires your lienor to be satisfied with the proof only of tho gold bohig shipped from the Province.

Thus, inducements would be offered to transmit to Otago, for shipment, the gold produced in other Provinces, thereby causing loss to their revenue. _ t It may be doubtf ui whether any provision for giving a bonus on gold shipped could be hedged round with sufficient prohibition to protect the interests of other Provinces, but provision might be made for allowing the bonus directly to the miners, on their satisfying the Warden or other authorised oflicer that they obtained the gold within any district, and forwarded it to the coast for shipment. A measure of that kind, while answering the purpose of the Ordinance lately made by the Otago Provincial Council would be free fi-omthe great objection to which I have referred, as well as from another which might be urged against it, as being in appearance, at least, an unconstitutional interference with the authorised taxation.—l have, &c, (Signed) Daniel Pollen. His Honor tho Superintendent of Otago. PONUI PASSAGE LIGHTHOUSE. Mr. LUCKIE asked,—"On what grounds the lighthouse on the Sandspit at Ponui Passage, Hauraki Gulf, is still maintained at the cost of the Provincial Government of Auckland; and whether the Colonial Government is prepared to take over the light and maintain it at Colonial cost." The lighthouse pn the sandspit at Ponui Passage, Hauraki Gulf, was about sixteen or eighteen miles beyond tho confines of the waters of the harbor of Hauraki, yet the light was a Provincial charge. If closely looked into, it would be found that much of the advantages of this light was bestowed on traffic to Auckland in the first place, and thence to the Thames. A case in point was the Nelson harbor light on the Boulder Bank, and consequently within the harbor which was in the hands of, and maintained by, the Colonial Government. It seemed to be somewhat inconsistent that the lighthouse on the Ponui sandspit should be continued in its present condition, and the expense be borne by the Provincial Government. Mr. BEYNOLDS replied that before the light was erected, the Superintendent of the Province, applied to the Colonial Government to erect it, and was informed, for reasons then given, that the Colony could not erect or maintain it. It was considered purely a harbor provincial light. Under these circumstances, the Government could not take over the light as a colonial one ; it was. used entirely for vessels passing between Auckland and the Thames. ROAD BETWEEN TAURANGA AND THE THAMES. Mr. AV. KELLY asked if there was any portion of the road between Tauranga and the Thames Gold Fields under contract at present ; and whether it was intended to complete the work during the present year. Mr. BICHABDSON replied that works were going on at present on the road alluded to. Instructions had been given that a detailed survey should be made, and it would be done very shortly. rUNISHMENT OP INEBRIATES. Mr. McGLASHAN asked the Minister of Justice " If the Government had taken into their consideration the punishment awarded to confirmed inebriates in the various Magistrates' Courts, in sending such persons to gaol, in so far as such punishment does not meet the evil by effecting a cure. If the Government will propose such an alteration in the law as will provide that such persons may be treated as lunatics instead of being sent to gaol." It appeared to him (the mover) paradoxical that they should import spirits and give encouragement to distillation by bonuses, and at the same time imprison criminally drunkards. He had not the least hesitation in stating that this imprisonment was very injurious to those sent to prison for short periods ; and especially so to those who got longer sentences. In the prison at Dunedin a large number of females were confined as habitual drunkards ; and after some of these had served their term of six months, they were brought up by the police the next day and sent to gaol for another six months. It would be very desirable if these people eould be treated otherwise than as criminals — either by being sent to lunatic asylums or hospitals, until such time as they could be cured. He trusted the Minister of Justice would see if any alteration of the law could be made that would allow of so desirable a reform being carried into effect. Mr. O'BOBKE replied that the attention of the Government had not been called to the matter of punishment awarded to inebriates. He presumed the questions were put with the view of showing the Government the desirability of establishing an inebriate asylum. But charitable institutions, under the form of Government in the Colony, were maintained by the Provincial Governments, and he did not see how the General Government should be called upon to pass a special Act. To the second part of the question, the attention of the Government would be directed. GOVERNMENT LIFE ASSURANCE. Mr. J. L. GILLIES allowed his question,— " If the Government consider themselves bound by the following announcement in the New Zealand Government Life Insurance aud Annuities guide and tables :— ■' A man at the age of twenty depositing £7 lis. Bd. with this department, secures the payment of £SOO to his representatives, even if death ensue 3 immediately after the policy has been obtained;' and whether the word ' annually' should not have been inserted after the word 'depositing'"— to lapse. BILLS. Leave was given to Mr. Curtis to introduce a Bill to amend The Goldfields Act, 1866, and a Bill to authorise the Municipal Corporation of the City of Nelson to raise money for the purpose of constructing or purchasing waterworks to the supply of the city of Nelson ; and to Mr. Vogel to introduce a Bill to amend the Licensing Act, 1873. The second reading of the two first-mentioned Bills was fixed for Thursday, and that of the Licensing Bill for Friday. In introducing his Goldfields Amendment Bill, Mr. C u RMS observed that it need not excite any alarm in the minds of hon. members as it merely 'referred to the Province to which he belonged. THK POLYNESIAN TRADE. Mr. VOGEL, in laying this paper on the table, said it would naturally suggest to hon. members' minds the question as to what course the Government proposed to take upon the subject. Hon. members would find the paper an exceedingly interesting one. It contained a compilation of reports from official sources on the South Sea Islands—some papers that had been published before, but were now collected together ; a useful map of the Pacific Islands; numerous Ministerial memoranda that had been sent to the Secretary of State for the Colonies ; and the Secretary of State's despatches on the subject; a valuable report on the Pacific Islands, by Mr. Seed ; a very interesting report upon tho Navigator Group, by a gentleman who had lived there a long while, and extracts from newspapers in which the last-named gentleman had published a number of articles. As he had said before, the question that would suggest itself to hon. members' minds would be as to what course the Government proposed to take in reference to the papers which would bo found in tho Blue Book upon the question of promoting or encouraging by way of subsidy the establishment of a commercial company to trade between Now Zealand and the Polynesian Islands. Whether or not the Government would proceed with the measure this session he did not know ; but ho did not hesitate to express an opinion that itwasasubjoctof very great importance to New Zealand, and one that well deserved the consideration and attention of hon. members. He was quite aware that any proposal of the kind was open to tho objection, and to the fears that wore sometimes entertained of the Government engaging in things that private persons could carry out, and also to tho theoretical objection that trade could not be controlled. For his part he thought that measure was one which every day experience contradicted—(hear) —while it was quite true that one could not make water run up hill, you could take it so by means of artificial channels. One could not go into any largo town without noticing sonio distinct individual exhibition of enterprise. In Dunedin would be found a large number of commercial businesses which wero carried on—not in Dunedin alono, but in the whole of tho Colony. There would have been nothing to prevent those businesses being established in other parts of tho Colony, and some part of tho Colony being made a centre of trade. It seemed to him that competition in any business really went to the result of controlling all enterprise and tho course of trade. Ho gayo another example, which he was at liberty

oto divulge. A gentleman who carried on a large businesss at New Caledonia, and who had very heavy Government contracts, desired to carry on business from Auckland, but was unable to do so owing to the want of proper facilities, and had to do so through Sydney. He was aware also that in coming down with a proposal of this kind, they laid themselves open to its being called a South Sea bubble. There was a time when insinuations of that kind caused him some little concern. When the Pubjic "Works policy was proposed, it was characterised as a South Sea bubble ; but time had shown the policy to be of a substantial character. There was nothing in the present proposal of which the Government need be ashamed, and they were quite prepared to leave it to its merits. The former South Sea bubble had, perhaps, at the present time, been to some extent a success, and it might have been a success than had it been carried on for its jwoper purpose, but they now knew that beyond the name given to it, it was a mere cover for entirely different operations. To his mind, the outcome of the proposals shadowed forth in the papers laid on the table would be hardly second to the effects of the Public Works and Immigration Policy on which the Colony had embarked. In New Zealand they had a country which was capable of supporting a very lai-ge population, and they were endeavoring to make homes for a large population by applying the means at their command to developing its resources. But they should avoid the mistake of the population turning its attention to only one occupation. It was their duty to provide, not only the opportunity to men who sowed and planted land, &c, but they should provide means for those whose inclinations led them in the direction of commercial and maritime enterprise, of carrying out the careers attractive to them. In these islands they had the means of opening to the young men of New Zealand of the present day and the days to come a means of hardy enterprise and commercial operations, which could not fail to have a beneficial effect upon the country, apart from the immediate effects arising from these operations. His aspiration was to see New Zealand the mistress of the British possessions in the Pacific, and he thought her situation, climate, &c, eminently fitted.her for that position. He should like to see—and he hoped the day was not far distant—the Governor of New Zealand become Governor-General of the Pacific and Polynesian Islands. In his opinion here was a large work for New Zealand, and he thought the monetary risk the Colony was asked to run under these proposals was trifling in comparison with the various results which might arise, and which would makeNewZealandattractive—notonly in respect of its interior resom'ces, but its outward resources—make it a large manufacturing country, and a large commercial emporium, and develope its maritime resources. He was not able to say that there was any intention to proceed with the measure this session. That would very much depend upon the" opinion members might form on the subject. It was not a question of party. Thero were tome questions, especially questions of trade, which should be considered irrespective of party. For example, he saw by the newspaper reports that the Conservative Budget received the approbation of the late Prime Minister, Mr. Gladstone. On questions of trade, members might feel themselves at liberty to form their own opinions. The Government said it was desirable to promote this matter, and he asked members to study the papers and think over the subject. (Cheers.) CONTROL OP THE GALLERIES. . Mr. J. E. BROWN brought under the notice of the House the desirability of provision being mode by which " strangers of distinction " and foreign consuls might have the entrie to the House galleries. After some observation from the SrEAKEK, who said that he invariably tried to meet the wishes of hon. members ; an iof Mr. Vogel, who cautioned the House agaiSt indulging in any hero worship, the matter dropped. THE HEATING ARRANGEMENTS. Mr. G. B. PARKER drew attention to the unsatisfactory condition of the heating apparatus. After some remarks by Major Atkinson, who suggested the introduction of gas stoves ; Mr. O'Conoh, who complained of the curtains ; Mr. Mekvvn, who again referred to the acoustic qualities of the hall ; and Mr. Steward, who suggested the removal of the " Punch and Judy " like Speaker's chair, the matter was brought to a conclusion by Mr. Richardson promising to do what they could to remedy the existing state of things. bills. The Civil Service Acts Amendment Bill and the Government Insurance and Annuities Bills were further considered in committee and reported to the House. THE FINANCIAL STATEMENT. At the evening sitting, Mr. Vogel made the Financial Statement. In the following abstract of it, amounts are stated in round numbers. Mr. VOGEL said that the statement would not only be shorter than usual, but it would bo unprecedented on account of the prosperity which it evidenced. The statement was made at an earlier period than had been customary, a result for which he was indebted to the untiring exertions of the Treasury officers in preparing the accounts. Last year, it was anticipated ■ that the actual results of 1872-73 would leave a surplus of £3BOO, with which to begin the year. But it proved that there was a difference of £OOOO as compared with what was anticipated. This arose partly through under-estimating outstanding liabilities, and partly from some, assets not being realised; the result being that instead of a surplus of £3BOO, there was a deficiency of between £2IOO and £2200. As to loans, it would be remembered that during the last session an announcement was made that five per cent, debentures to the amount of half a million had been sold at £2 10s. premium. In January last, the Loan Agents invited tenders for one million pounds at four and a half per cent. He had been favorable to the change to four per cent., but he approved of the action of the Agents, since they had inserted a condition that the debentures might be retired at any time after five years. The half million borrowed at 4J per cent, interest realised £9B. Making allowance for redeeming the discount, this was tantamount to borrowing at the rate of £4 12s. 6d. per cent. It was originally calculated that money for the Immigration and Public Works Policy would have to bo borrowed at 5 1 per cent. It was gratifying, therefore, to know that the average rate of interest on the loans for those purposes yet negociated, including allowance for recovering discount, amounted only to £4 14a. lid. per cent. It was right that he should say that the market for Colonial loans was not so favorable last year as seemed to be then promised. There was now no demand for such debentures in the Colonies. This arose through the demand for capital for local enterprise, but it had to be home in miud in considering the question of the borrowing powers of the Colony. The aggregate amount of the public debt, after deducting sinking • fund accrued, was £12,500,000, and the annual charge was £777,000, of which £554,000 had to bo paid by the Colony, and £223,000 by the ProvincesAfter explaining the position of the various Loan Accounts Mr. Vogel referred to the Land Fund. This, ho said, showed a remarkably progressive increase. During the year 1869-70, the receipts, exclusive of gold revenue, were £200,000 ; 1870-71, £208,000 ; 18/1-72, £330,000; 1872-3, £889,000; 1873-4, £1,038,000, The Post Office Savings Bank Account showed an increase of deposits of £137,000, the total deposits in those Banks being now £082,000. The revenue of the past year exceeded that of

1872-3 by £300,000, and it exceeded the estimated amount by £239,000. This result was very large, when the proportion it bore to the whole amount of the revenue was considered. He could not state accurately the increase that had resulted from the substitution of ad valorem for. measurement duties, as there had not yet been sufficient time to classify the returns ; but there could be no doubt that the new duties produced more largely than the measurement duties. He was glad of this, both on account of the result and on account of the testimony it bore to the honor and truthfulness of the commercial classes of the country. He emphatically stated his opinion that taxation had not pressed harshly on the bulk of the people, and that, under the new eystem, the duties had been more evenly distributed over articles of luxury than was the case formerly. After deducting expenditure and liabilities, as well as allowing £20,000 for liabilities yet to come in, and paying off £45,000 of Treasury Bills, there was a balance at the end of 1873-4, available for the service of the current year, amounting to £207,000. Having explained at some length the position of the railways, Mr. Vogel said that the revenue of the country was increasing so much, simultaneously with the introduction of immigrants and the prosecution of public works, that there could no longer be any doubt as to the success of. the policy, and the Colony would be quite safe in taking over the main trunk lines of railway whenever it might be found convenient to do so, and in relieving the Provinces from all liability on account of interest on their cost. Apart from the revenue, which it was now certain would be derived from the railways in excess of working expenses, the Consolidated Revenue of the Colony had during the last two years increased by £-112,000, or within a few thousand pounds of the total annual charge which the railways, when completed from one end of the Colony to the other, would entail. It must be pointed out, however, that, further authority for borrowing to complete the railways would have to be given. However successful the Immigration and Public Works might be, it must be remembered that it was necessary to meet the colonial requirements before straining the credit of the Colony for other purposes. Consideration of the fact of the railways being pushed on more quickly than was originally intended, and of the fact that it was not desirable to encourage too largely the construction of other works, impelled the Government to decide not to renew their proposals of last year, as to Provincial borrowing. The Government were prepared to allow a limited amount of assistance to the Provinces, but such assistance to be rendered through the Colonial Government, and to be charged either against the amount for the settlement of immi- ( grants, or upon the Consolidated Fund, but with power to the Government to issue Treasury Bills, if found necessary, to meet it. As to the assistance to be given to separate Provinces, Mr. Vogel said : " First in regard to Auckland, th« Government durincr the rwecu »m»Wtook to ask Parliament to allow the Province to raise £50,000, to be advanced from time to time, extending over a period of about three years, for works upon the Thames Goldfields. The security in this case, besides that of the Province, is of a specific and large nature, and the importauee of the object to be gained is not to be denied. The Government besides agreed, subject to the approval of Parliament, to advance to Auckland on the security of onehalf of its laud revenue, to be impounded for the purpose, £40,000 in sums of £6OOO every three months. The Government propose to ask Parliament to carry out these arrangements. We do not propose to ask for Auckland any further loan beyond the power to devote some part of the immigration funds to objects directly promotive of the settlement of immigrants. Taranaki, with its splendid lauds, offers a field for the location of immigrants second to none in the Colony, and we shall ask for power to advance money to aid so essential a work. Similarly we propose to devote some funds to Westland and to Nelson. In respect to these four Provinces, it is to be remembered that they have not as yet enjoyed so much of the direct benefit from the expenditure on immigration as they might be supposed to have the right to claim. Still, for money expended on works we propose conditions for repayment. I may add, also, that whilst we shall require the approval of the Provincial Governments to any work undertaken, we propose that the works shall be carried out under the control or with the approval of the Public Works Department. What I have said of these other Provinces in respect to immigration applies equally to Marlborough. We shall propose for works in connection with the location of immigrants advances extending over twoyears, besides a loan of £4OOO to bridge the Clarence River. In regard to Wellington hon. members will no doubt have observed from the correspondence that the Government during the recess endeavored to induce the Provincial Government to reduce the amount of borrowed money they desired. We agreed to submit for the approval of the Assembly a proposition to allow Wellington to obtain an advance of £66,000 on 80,000 acres of land to be opened to the free selection of small settlers. We shall ask that this plan be carried out. I may also mention incidentally that we propose to ask authority to construct proper Government Buildings in Wellington. Nelson's case is the most difficult to deal with. That Province has long lagged behind in the race that other Provinces have run. It requires useful works, of which it is singularly destitute, and we propose to lend to it, on specific security, £50,000, for works which the Public Works Department approve. , From Otago, also, the cry for borrowed money has come. Wo cannot see our way to at present sanction the large sum that Province asks for, unless by way of purchase of the Winton and Bluff line. If the Provincial Government are willing, we will be prepared to propose to the Assembly to purchase that railway at a valuation, the payment to be made in four equal instalments, on the Ist February next, and the Ist February of the three following years, the money to be devoted to the construction of branch railways. Otherwise, in respect to Otago, and in respect to Canterbury and Hawke's Bay, I have _ only to say we proposo to continue their trunk railways, and to aid them in locating the immigrants they so wonderfully absorb." The Government proposed not to undertake any further goldfields works until some of those already begun had been completed. They proposed to appropriate an additional £60,000 for roads in the North Island, and to continuo the same plan as formerly by allocating to the Middle Island Provinces a like amount. Out of the sums that would thus become payable to Canterbury and Westland, it was proposed to put the road between Christchurch and Hokitika into good order. As to the Provinces, Ml-. Vogel said : —" The case o£ the Provinces is not, however, dealt with by merely exceptional advances for public works. There are three Provinces which labor under the great disadvantage of contributing largely to the colonial revenue without enjoying an adequate Provincial revenue for local purposes. The Provinces which enjoy large revenues feel no difficulty in contributing to the Colonial revenue, for whilst they make the contributions they enjoy out of their own revenue local expenditure But the case of some Provinces!* simply constant contribution—a constant disheartening tendency to the result so familiarly explaiued by the slaughter of the bird which lays the golden eggs. As a more matter of policy, it is wise, in the midst of the. immense increase of the Colonial revenue, to specially remember some of the , Provinces which contribute it, and which are at present at a great disadvantage as compared with other Provinces. It is not wise to let parts of the Colony languish under a sense o£ wrong, to allow them to feel they are still becalmed, whilst the favoring breezo removes from their sight the vessels originally becahned with them. The condition of the three Provinces of Auckland, Westland, and Nelson, as compared with the other Provinces, is lamentable, and requires from the surplus of the Consolidated Revenue the attention of the Legislature. Auckland's case is far the worst. It will take that Province somo years to work itself round, and to enjoy the future which I firmly believe is still before it. Westland deserves great sympathy. Weighted with a great public debt, its G-

vernineut, eagerly anxious to develop it, find themselves hampered in every direction. Westlaud has proved a mine of wealth to the Colony. It is folly to desert it. The west coast of Nelson is somewhat similarly placed : Nelson will, however, now have the means, as it appears its rulers have the inclination, to use those means to become a prosperous Province. These considerations impel us to recommend that out of the year's surplus a Bpecial allowance, in addition to that already provided by the scale of capitation allowances, be made to Auckland, Westland, and Nelson, at the rate of £25,000 to the first, £IO,OOO to the second, and £SOOO to the third. When lion, members study the whole of the circumstances, they will not, I think, grudge the proposed aid." Passing on to the expenditure for the current year, IS7I-5, he said that the essential principle of this Budget was different from that of any previous one, its great object being to prevent the Government recruiting revenues by resort to borrowed monies. In fact, the present Budget had for its object to relieve loans at the expense of the Consolidated Revenue. He proposed this year to take over and to charge upon Consolidated Revenue all the cost of interest, inclusive of interest upon works in course of construction, for which other provision had been made. He proposed also to bear on the Consolidated Revenue half of the IDefence Expenditure, and half the amount to be paid as subsidies to Road Boards. Further, he proposed to pay off an additional £IOO,OOO of Treasury Bills. Taking into consideration the number of officers of the Civil Service who were inclined to leave the service on account of opportunities to benefit themselves, and the hardship to which they were subjected through the increased cost of living, ' the Government had decided to recommend, as a matter of expediency no less than of justice, that a special allowance ahoiild this year be made of 10 per cent, to all officers whose salaries did not exceed £l5O a year, of 7 A per cent, to all officers* whose salaries exceeded £l5O but did not exceed £3OO, and of 5 per cent, to all those whose salaries exceeded £3OO but did not exceed £SOO. To do this would absorb £15,000 of the surplus. Adding these various items to the amount of the capitation grant, the special allowances to the Provinces, as well as the ordinary expenditure and permanent charges, the total expenditure for the current year would be £1,630,000. This would include £271,000 to be devoted to the reduction of Treasury Bills current, and to the payment of amounts which might under existing authorities have been charged to loans, thus justifying the statement he had made that the mam feature of the budget was to relieve loans at the expense of the Consolidated Revenue. He would explain, when he made his Immigration Statement, tTie further votes that would be required for immigration and for railway purposes. His colleague the Minister for Public Works would in a day or two explain the various circumstances respecting the construction of the main trunk lines. He must, however, state that what he meant to include when he spoke of main trunk lines which the Colony would be justified in accepting as Colonial. .lines., were those lines whicn nacl been already authorised, together with such other lines as would complete existing gaps between Kaipara and Auckland, New Plymouth, Napier, and Wellington, as well as those necessary to complete through communication between Picton, Nelson, Hokitika, North Canterbury, and the West Coast. The total revenue for the year, estimated with moderation,, was £1,496,000. Adding to this the surplus with which the year was commenced, there would be a total of £1,704,000, and, deducting the total expenditure, there would be a surplus of £66,000. It must be remembered, however, that that surplus was liable to be largely trenched upon by Supplementary Estimates. Iu conclusion, Mr. Vogel urged that while the country was confidently pursuing its policy of progress, they should wisely husband its strength, and not have larger recourse to borrowing than was absolutely necessary for carrying out the policy which the House and the people had adopted. Progress was reported, and leave obtained to sit again. The House was adjourned at half-past nine o'clock.