ADJOURNED MEETING AT THE HUTT.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume X, Issue 976, 9 December 1854, Page 2

ADJOURNED MEETING AT THE HUTT.

An adjourned meeting of the Hutt electors took,place at the room adjoining the Aglionby Arms on Monday evening. The room was crowded with Hutt settlers and, persons from Wellington, arid/

the greatest interest was manifested by the meeting in the proceedings. throughout the evening. After a few preliminary observations from the chairman, Mr. WAKfcFiFtD, who was received with hearty cheering, said— Mr. Chairman and Brother Electors, of the Hutt, In consequence of' what took place at the meeting which was adjourned till this evening, it is now my business to lay before you a statement of my own part in the proceedings of the General Assembly, and to make that statement in the form of a defence ' from the serious accusations which were brought against me by Mr. Ludlatn. Selfdefence is' forced upon me; but I shall not assail him. To the best of my power, I shall endeavour to refute his .charges, but shall make none against 'him; because' except for the one purpose of selfdefence, I 'still object t« having any part in the \iriseemly proceeding which hep. insisted on, and -which he called " fighting it out |!.w,ith me (cheers). Without attempting to follow him through the eleven sheets of foolscap paper which are covered by my notes of his speech, and which, by extracting what is of "importance, I have reduced to the one page now in my hand, I think it will be convenient for the meeting if I adopt the order of his statement for the purpose of enabling them the moie readily to pass judgment on the differences between us. He begin by some reference to the state of political opinion in the colony previous to the meeting of th'fr Assembly, and r ead to you those Resolutions which were passed by a meeting of the J Electors of the Province at Wellington in March last; whereby the course to be taken by the Members of the House of Representatives then going to Auckland was pj&esc*ibed>t<Ethenv by their constituents.^ Those* Resolutions" established two mam points — that it was the pai amount duty of members to promote, first, the transfer of the General Assembly's power over the Waste Lands to the Provincial Legislatures, subject to general rules to be framed by the Assembly, and secondly, the establishment without delay of ministerial responsibility in the conduct of the General Government. There was perfect agreement between the electors and the members at that meeting; for, indeed the Resolutions which were passed had been agreed to by the members before the meeting ; and I can offer no better proof of my own cordial assent to those Resolutions, than by letting you know that, in compliance with a request from my brother members, they were written by myself (cheers). I shall revert to theni'presently; but let- me 'first draw your attention to facts of an antecedent date, which have an important bearing on the question of ministerial responsibility or responsible 'government. The Provincial Council of Wellington met at a time when the General' Assembly was in abeyance ;> and their first duty was to frame a law for establishing, what the Constitution Act leaves wholly undone, an Executive Government for thelPfovince. 1 His Honor the Superintendent then laid before us for our approval a Bill framed by himself for the purpose. By the first clause of that Bill,' it was pro¥osed that all Executive power and authority in the rovince should be vested in the Superintendent alone "in his own person." That clause was copied verbatim from one of those old instruments of authority which gave despotic power to the Governors of this Colony (hear, hear) ; arid-if it bad become law, there wou'd not have been even a shadow of ministerial responsibility in thts, government of this Province (hear, hear, hear). On that ground, which was very fully explained by me in the Counctt, I objected to the Bill; and subsequently, with the aid of Mr. Ludlam himself, Mr. Moore, Mr. Andrew Brown nnd others, induced the Council to substitute for the clause, .which bestowed despotic authority on the Superintendent during his tenure of office, another whereby all bis acts were made subject to being performed by and with the advice of an Executive Council. The effect of that totally different clause haa been that, in th's Province, we do not hold the Superintendent responsible for themeasures or conduct of theProvincial Government, but that all responsibility is cast upon his ad visers, the Provincial Secretary/Pressure r, CounciTTcT»ee?v,). It was that totally different clause which alone established in this province the ministerial responsibility or responsible government, which afterwards obtained such general attention in the colony (cheers.) Until the discussions and proceedings of the Provincial Council of Wellington on this subject, nobody, I may say. had paid any serious practical attention to that subject in any pan of the colouy. (hear, hear.) My own share in these discussions and proceedings was only in accordance with opinions long held by mcv and towards giving effect t-o which in other colonies I had laboured for many years. The rejolutionnbout responsible government which was adopted by the Wellington meeting oP'electors of the Piovince, -was bu: an application to this colony of -doctrines, which, in all sorts of ways, I had prea/ched for twenty years at home and in other colonies, and to which I had largely aided in giving practical effect as a member of the Canadian Parliament. In this colony, both before and after the meeting at Wellington, but more especially between that meeting in March, and the meeting of the Assembly at Auckland, I established an active correspondence with' leading politicians in every Province, the -whole aim of which on my part was to inculcate the necessity of making Responsible Government the first question to be settled by the Assembly. And I had many opportunities of preaching the ■doctrine by word of mouth— here at Wellington, on board the Government Brig, where I passed some weeks with *fll the members from Otago, at Nelson where we stopped for some time; and lastly at : Auckland, where, with reference to Peter the Her- j mit who preached the first crusade, they did me the ; honor of calling me the Peter the Hermit of Responsible Government (cheers). At any rate, no member of the Assembly had this object more at heart (cheers). The members of the Assembly met at Auckland under circumstances of much embarrassment and difficulty. They did not arrive till the very day for which theAssembly was convened. They were, for the most part, strangers to each other, none but a few being even personally acquainted with any but members from their own Province, and nearly all being in a state of ignorance with regard to the opinions of other members on a variety of important subjects which called for prompt legislation. Not a single member of the House of Representatives was in any ■way connected with the Government, which was entirely unrepresented%irrthat boery^.(hear, hear.) In this state of mind with regard to the business of the session, they were called into the Chamber of the Legislative Council to hear the Governor's speech whereby the Session was ftpened ; and they were desired to proceed to the performance of their duties. I had said at the Wellington meeting when pointing out the necessity of ministerial responsibility in the General Legislature, that when, after hearing the Governor's speech, we' retired to' our own chamber, we should sit still, looking at each other, and not knowing what to do ; and just so it happened. There < was no_ one amongst us who could give us any 'information from the Executive «bout the subjects on which We had l t6 r make laws, or who could convey -any expression' If.our wants and wishes to the Governor and , his -Executive Council. Still it was .necessary for us to return some answer to his Excellency's speech; What was to be done? Some of us met in a private' 1 room, and resolved that the best course for, the House to take would be thatof returning to the Governor's speech an answer of mere personal compliment, without alluding to any topic of apolitical character, and of abstaining- from all business yntil-the question of ministerial responsibility should snbmitted to his Excellency. The House agreed to an address wherebythey thanked his Excellency in the warmest terms for 1 1 having spontaneously, convened the Assembly, when the step was not incumbent on him us a merely tern i orary administrator of the Government ; and then, by means of a separate resolution, the question of Responsible Government was broached. - I was asked to undertake the lead or management of the proceedings of Ihe House with regard 4 t(T that question. I undertook the task, but not w\tnout diffidence and fear; for though conscions'of -"Being familiarly acquainted' with the theory and' with the means of applying it in colonies, 1 was afraid that the state of my.owrt, health might disable/ we from going through with the work to a" satisfactory conclusion;' and I

was dee Dlv imDre<?<*ed with the belief that sue- might be of reaMemporary service to the colony} cause they. were called for by a member unconnected wemfo lb unatSnafie uX^ the prowdings yet I saw objections to placing another Canter- ed with the Government. AccaHmg : to my noo'f the House wer , tasdeAb?Vuch anSlfie.' as bury man irt^be General Government; and I knew tions they were suppressed for a week (cheers) , and ? dtment moderation pnidence" and discretion that Mr. Sewell Cared nothing about New Zealand, sure I am, that never before, either in Eiiir'and or ffiarTear) withcarefar dsS taking 1 to give no or even about Canter burv,,bnt that he .was a mere ip any colony governed on .be responsible princoftneema^ will bird of passage, bent on qurtting the Colony for pie; ,were documents of such importance-docu-ftSJ3,sie Jblert: in view (cheers), the Auek- ever as soon as he should accomplish the sole object mehts containing the result of negotiations UndmembmT^ of his presence in New Zealand which was an by which a new mode of government was Sl^^^Sthi^^&^^Rl^ arrangement, which needed legislative action of established-withheld for a week, or for an hour frnmtL South The TdoSe of Responsible Go- certain claims of the Canterbury Association on the unnecessarily, from the knowledge of the represenWaste Lands of the Province of Canterbury (loud tatives of the people (cheers). The fact showed at .to ™«C 1 tl«^lA rtf the maioritv nrevafl in all cr es of " hear"). I knew that whatever others least that the new ministers were not very well acr^fe^of Government • ietSlhlsShad to might be, he would not be really responsible to any quainted with the usages of Eesponsible Governbody, because, when his personal object was once ment (laughter and cheers.) However, the Prime min^yoUo^lreT^hejiASo^ony and bitter obtained, he would go away to England, and would Minister made his statement of arrangements and feud between °he Norland ?Ke South; because they be totally indifferent about the opinion of his Con- policy by a speech of great ability and pretension ; im«a-inedth'.ttheerant of Responsible Government atitneuts or of the Assembly with regard to him and on that statement the H-.nse was called on to would niace the North at the mercy of the South, (hear, .hear) : nay, that he would never again shew pus judgment. On such statement by a minister, Tr £ notorious that the Northern cornm'nhity viewed his face to his constituents (bear, hear). To Mr. it is usual for independent members, as well as parti™mppMiio- of the General Assembly with distrust Weld, I had no objection,' but was glad to see him tizans of the Government, to -xpress their opinions. Ind fear and that they dreaded lesVa system of disposed to take part in. the government of the As one of the former, I reviewed Mr. Fit^erald's ministerial responsibility »h'ould ekuoae their part Colony, though I could not but fear ,that> as a col- ' speech. What I said, has been fully reported in the of the colony to measures of injustice at the hands league of Mr. Fitzgerald and Mr. Sewell, he frould newspapers; and I am not going to trouble you of the Southern maiority (h'eaiv hear').' I was not frobably be very subject to their influence. It ap- with any repetition of it; but all who have read it surmised therefore when, in the course of the de-" peared to me also that a great blunder bad been will recollect, that whilst tendering to the new Gobates on 'the Responsible' Government resolution committed in leaving Auckland wholly unrepre- vernment such support as could be given consisDroDosed by me, an Auckland member asked me to sented in the Cabinet (hear, hear); and worse than tently with my own fixed opinions, I very carefully state to the House my view of the manner in which a blunder, because the omission was a gross breach guarded myself from expressing unqualified confiResnonsible Government would affect the. interests of the sort of understanding in the House, as to dence in them (hear, hear, hear ) In fact, though of the North, considering their minority in the special government for Auckland, whereby the avoiding- every thing like unfriendly attack, but legislature The question was carefully prepared, Auckland members bad been led to vote for the raiher 'speaking in a tone of friendly counsel, and and deliberately asked. In replying to it, las system of an Executive Council responsible to the distinctly expressing my wish.and intention to supdeliberately entered into the whqlo subject of past Assembly (cheers). And'lasfly, though on princi- port the GovernmenraYfar as it would be possible differences and present rivalries and jealousies be- PJe I have always disliked the plan of a second for me to do so, 1 alluded to the objections to the tween the North and thltionthf and declared, with branch of the legislature consisting uf members composition of the ministry which have been menample explanations, that, in my own opinion, con- apDointed by the Crown for life, and was then, as tioned to you this evening, and, in particular, I dwelt sidering the special or peculiar circumstances of the lam now, persuaded that our Constitution will not on the impropriety of the position taken by the SuNorth and the entire present separation of Auck- wol 'k well until the character of an elected Senate perintendent of Canterbury, and to the absence on Jand from the Southern Provinces, it would be only shall be given to /the Legislative Council, yet I Mr.' Sewell's part of real lesponsibility to the House iust and wise in the Assembly, in any legislation by could not be blind to the^fact that the Legislative or to his constituents. And further, with regard to them affecting Auckland, and in the conduct of the Council, as composed of Nominees according to the grand policy announced, I pointedly warned the General Executive, to adopt the principle under the Constitution Act, is a co-ordinate branch of the ministers of the danger which commonly attends which Scotland, though fully part of the United Assembly, whose assent to measures is just as ne- on great and sudden p:ospeiit> — the danger which Kingdom is governed in a great measure separately cessary as that of the Governor or of the House is commonly expressed by saying that when a begfrom England. I had broached that doptrine at of Representatives; and therefore the formation of gar is set on horseback, he is apt to ride straight to Wellington and I now explained it fully, dwelling a cabinet in which the Legislative Council was to the devil (laughter and cheers.) In short, I Dreachat leno-Ih on the manner in which in the British be wholly unrepresented, appeared to me as absurd ed a sermon on moderation and prudence, forbearParliament and Government, the members frorA and foolish as the attempt would be at home to ance and caution; a sermon which was far from Siotlandin the two Houses of Parliament, and V f° rm a cabinet of ministers in which there should agreeable to the ministers; for Mr. Fitzgerald exScottish Minister or two in the Cabinet, virtually, be no member of the House of Lords (hear, hear); hibited displeasure at my remarks, and Mr. Sewell regulate the affairs of Scotland sithout interference and secondl y> the Attorney-General, who was a called them " a speech of dissatisfaction and disbyWlish members of Parliament or English minis-* -member of the Executive Council, was also Speaker content." The displeasure of Mr. Revans, an outters (hear 1-ear) • and I called on the member^ --.of the Legislative Council; but it was known, as and-out partizm of the new Government, was exfrom the South to express agreement with me in he took the first opportunity of declaring, that he hibited in a characteristic manner. Immediately the opinion that in the government of New Zealand,, objected to being considered aresponsible minister, after the delivery of my criticism on the ministerial executive as well as legislative the same principle |a»d would not undertake to represent the ExecU- statement, the members of the House proceeded to ou"ht to be applied to Auckland. This view of the 'tive in the branch of tbe Legislature of which he the Masonic Hall, where the Auckland members subject appeared to meet with general approval in "^as a member. Consequently, the Legislative had invited those from the South to meet them at a the House- and there can be no doubt that it had Council was to be left, as the House of Represen- public dinner. It was a grand aftair; the dinner the effect of converting the Auckland members into tatives had been, without any proper means of com- excellent; every body in high spirits; the Prime being friendly instead of hostile to the system of mumcation between U and the Executive. We Minister sitting in glory on the right hand ot the Responsible Government (cheers). On that oc- bad got them, and could not get rid of them ; there chairman; the future Solicitor-General and Colocasion I was advised in private by moi c than one they were, and no law could be passed, nothing im- nial Secretary on his left ; a sort of celebration of Southern member to avoid the subject of the Seat pottant could be done, without their consent ; and the triumph of Responsible Government, and of the of Government, as one which might cause division yet»they were utterly disregarded, or rather treated formation of a responsible ministry. The chairman, when unanimity was so desirable ; but I thought with contempt, as if no such body existed (hear, when proposing the i health of the Southern members, that the best course was to speak out what was in hear). That, I thought and still think, was a piece the guests of the day, coupled my name with the my thoughts; and I declared my own opinion to of egregious folly (cheers). Such were my objec- toast, to which I of course responded in terms ot be that under all circumstances, justice to New tiorid to the intended plan of a ministry, when in- cordiality towards our hosts. Mr. Revans then Zealand required that the meetings of the General formfed of it by Mr. Sewell. He very urgently jumped up, and with great violence of manner, obLegislature should be held somewhere about the pressed me to meet him in private with Mr. Fitz- jected to the toast as having my name coupled with centre of the Islands. This was done very dis- gerald, Mr, Weld, Mr. Carleion, and Dr. Campbell, it, and spoke of me in the most offensive and mtinctly, but without giving any offence to the for the 1 purpose of talking over the matter. I ob- suiting manner. Fortunately I managed to keep Auckland members, because they saw, I believe, jected and declined, on the ground that such meet- my own temper, and, not having drunk any that I was sincerely desirous of seeing real justice lngwa^ intended to be wholly confidential or secret, champagne, I was able, by begging several of done to Auckland in every respect (cheers). At and that my relations with the House on the sub- my friends to be quiet, to prevent the disany rate, with the exception of one, who, though ject of Responsible Government, and with several creditable scene which at one time appeared he adopted the principle, yet thought that it could of its members as political friends, precluded me imminent (cheers). I mention Jhi* circumnot be fully carried out without the consent of her from talciug part in any private or secret negotia- stance, in order that you may compare the rage Majesty, the Auckland members now joined those tions or' discussions. The next daj , Mr. Sewell and of Mr. Revans (who till then had piofessed to be from the South in supporting my Resolution, which Mr. Weld came to me, and again uiged me to meet on the must friendly terms with me), which, there was carried all but unanimously, and presented to them and their friends in private ; and 1 again can be no doubt, arose from my having expressed the Governor by Address. His Excellency's declined, but undertook to Communicate to my doubts and feais about "the ministry rather than unanswer to the Address fully conceded the principle friends and other members what they had commu- limited confidence in them, and with Mr. Ludlam's (cheers); and then the question aiose as to the ex- nicated to me. Accoidingly, I got together seve- assurance to you > hat it was by me^that th,e ministers tent and manner of giving effect to it. In the ral of my friends, being, if I recollect right, one -were induced to accept ofhee, that I promised them_ course of the previous debates, IJ^d-tafeen *are to from GljSgi ,£one from Canterbnry, one from Nelson, m y warmest support, and thiit my subsequent op'^tate wltnt appeared.toJieio me -the "light view as one from Nfcw Plymouth, and one from Auckland; position to them, when they fell into dispute with to ulterior steps in case the Gdveruor should take when we instantly resolved, without going into the the Governor, was an act of basene-s, treachery, the first one by admitting the principle. Adverting subject at all, to call a meeting of all the members, and cruelty (loud cries of hear). As in the riouse to the embarrased position of his Excellency, whose and lay the tohole matter befoie them. This'-gen-e*- just before this dinner, the ministers complained high office had not been bestowed upon him by ral meeting was called, at King's Boarding House, of my M-ant of confidence in ihem, so, at this the confidence of the Crown, but had fallen en and Mr.-S^sVeil gave me in writing, with Mr. l ; itz- dinner, Mr. Revans insulted me, because I had him through the accident of his being the senior gerald's asuent, a sort of programme of the intended just given tbe no'iiisters warning that I was officer commanding the troops, and who was there- arrangements. I took this paper to the meeting, anv'bing but a blind partizan of theirs. In truth fore -entitled to avoid incurring any weighty which was attended by, I think, 29 members of the I distrusted them, and seized the first opportunity responsibility, \ had declared amidst cheel'B of ap- House of Representatives, and read it to them. It of publicly s.i>mg so, though at tbe same time I probation from the House, that if his Excellency differed in two respec's from what I had heard be- engaged to go along with them if my doubts and granted the principle, I should be contented With fore, by stating that' Dr. Campbell, "in addition to fe«rs -.hoold turn out to be unfounded (cheers'). The the smallest reality in practice, though discontented Mr. Fitigerald, Mr. Sewell, and Mr. Weld, was House had now to wait for their measures, but bewith the largest possible sham (cheers)," I never to have a seat in the Executive Council, and that fore any of these were produced we got sight of dreamt and this was distinctly avowtd-^-of asking ; the Attorney-General would resign, his oilice, and what I have called the suppressed correspondence. him to turn out the actual members of his Execu- re-accent it on the tenure of the responsible prin- It is very short; and it contains the whole contract tive Council and put a new set in their place. On ciple. The firstof these novelties appeared highly on both sides— the stipulations of the Minister, with the contrary, I engaged to give a fair support to displeasing to most of the Auckland members ; for the concession by the Government, and the condithe Government, provided only one member of the Dr. Campbell was not a member of either House : tions which bis Excellency attached to the bargain. House of Representatives had a seat in the Execu- and though it was understood that he should Nothing ielse passed in writing : here you have the tive Council, and were held bound to resign that endeavour to obtain a seat in the Representa- entire agreement. Mr. Wakefield then read the seat whenever deprived of the confidence of the five Body, doubts were expressed as to whether following documents : — representative body (hear* hear.) This was called he could get elected by any Auckland constitu- (No. 4.) " Auckland, loth June, 1854 at the time a "modicum of responsible govern- ency. The second proposal — that, I mean, with re- Si*,— ln obedience to your Excellency's commands I iiaye mentf and every body appeared to agree with me gardjea change.in the tenure of the Attorney-Ge-in thinking that it would be wise, and indeed only nerals ornce — appeared to give general satisfaction. the House <5f5 f Kepresent-ttives, and would be willing to accept prudent in the House to be content with this modi- However, a member got up, and asked whether I seats in the Executive Council for tnat purpose, and I have the cunv-this small instalment of the. real thing- had leen consulted in framing this plan, and ifnot rather than mk the loss of all by insisting on more why, not? (hear, hear.) I answered that I had not that "ask. than an Officer Administering the Government beep consulted, but that in the present emergency, i beg at the iame time to represent to your Excellency that it might deem himself warranted in granting (hear, everybody might have to make some sacrifice of would materially facilitate the conducts legwiattoji, andwoftld hear.) Buthegranted the whole "prindpl.W personal feelings, and that I vvas Willing to make t i^^^^n!^^ I S. out any qualification, promised the whole thing as tha/ of bearing without complaint tbe ill compli- tant of Auckland, and in a position to represent the special insoon as possible offered to add three members of ment of having been excluded from all voice in the terests of the Auckland community ; at the same time I regret the legislature to his Executive Council, and under- selection of a ministry (cheeis). . 1 requested that StoS&iEfig **' took to be guided by their advice in carrying on on that subject, nothing more might be said} and i n aC c ept ing office foi the above purpose, lam to express on the business of the Government so long as they the meeting separated without expressing any defi- my own part and that of m" co leagues, that we do so on the should enjoy the confidence of the House. 'Jhat nilejopinions. In fact, the thing was done, and understanding^that in acun dance with the arrangement sugwas an immense concession (cheer,). Some col o- could not be altered ; and I, for ope, resolved to g^^^^^^^tr^^S^ nies having full representation in an Assembly, make the best or it. Having that intention, J re- securin g to the present holders of the offices of Secretary, Treastrueeled for twenty years before they obtained as collected with satisfaction that Mr. Fitzgerald had surer, and Attorney-General, such compensation as the House much; and a struggle for about seven years was derived from me h,s opinions on subjects relating the shortest by which any colony had secured any to colonization and colonial government— that, in- their offl {f es as soon as the convenience of the public semce real ministerial responsibility in its government deed, until he knew me> he had no opinions, nor shall require it, (hear. hear). In three days we obtained this great any knowledge, on any of those subjects; that to I have the honor to be, Sir, with the greatest respect, concession (cheers). I threw up my hat, delighted. Mr. Sewell. I had been,' as he afterwards called me YJf« 1 with the victory (cheers). I said then, and still in the House, his pastor and master with regard to xo fits Excellency the Officer believe, that never was Iso well pleased as on that such subjects; and that Mr. Weld had but recent- Administering the Government. most happy day (loud cheers). Well, the Governor ly expressed to me, in more ways than one, his ad- <. had done his part, and most amply: all the rest hesion to my views of policy for New Zealand. I i-copy.] (No. 5.) now depended upon us, the Members of the House therefore hoped, notwithstanding my .objections to Government H<m*e f Auckland, June 10, 1854. of Repfesentativ'es. It was our business to ii.tit he composition of the ministry, Aj* their policy .SS^^fe^SS^ mate to the Governor by what selection of men to 'might be agreeable to me ; and at aW events, 1 telt t0 state j am happy t0 hn d you disposed and enabled to carry fill 3 seats in the Executive Council, and by what bound by my previous engagements in the House out the proposition ma ie to you by me on receiving a resolupolicy of legislative measures, the House could be with regard io a modicum of responsible govern- a^ft^^^^^^^-S^SSeSg brought into working harmony with the Executive, ment, to give the Fitzgerald ministry a fair trial, and «™ ™ acquaint you that I shall have pleasure m appointing This could not, according to constitutional usage at to support and assist them to the best of my ability. YOU) ana the t^o gentlem-n named by you, to seats in the Exhome, be done in a formal or direct manner. It short of sacrificing any important principle or che- ecutive Council. vn^i^M^at^^^^^cii^r was attempted by means ot private negotiations rished opinion (cheers). The Houae of Represen- "^eSen^^^^ originating with his Excellency, as represented by tatives bad adjourned for a week in order to give O f the Government through' the Assembly. the Attorney-General. In those negotiations, I .Mr. Fitzgerald time for making his arrangements. The introduction of a fourth member into the Executive had.eSly/o part: I.™ never mf consults I When t l.ev ,ne. a g? in he laid before them a s.a.e- Court! -»» SS^ffSXS.'XSSS (loud and repeated cries of "hear"). In fact, I ment of his negotiations with the Lroveinor, of j nterest of {^ Auckland community can never fail to enjoy wa° carefully excluded from them (repeated cries their, result, and of the policy of tbe new Govern- protection while'the existing members retain their seats in the of "hear"). In the victory which had been won, ment. Not doubting* th *\. A ™J^ B h %"?™ third and last point alluded to, I feelconmypart had been that of the general, but I ,was correspondence between him and the Governor, with mo in the inexpediency of my disallowed no part of the spoils (hear, hear, hear), though I could not be sure of the tact, 1 was SUr- tur bingiu anyway, as temporarily administering the OovernNnW the nart which I desired, was not office, (for priseH that be,confin t edhimself~to a word-of-mouth ment, the position of those now in office; at all events till lam h^weirknownioeverybodithatnothingwodli kpofc. and produced n6 Acumen*. In such %^?&^*£.^)£^Z^ induce me to ' undertake the labours and re<*ponai<-- cases, whenever important arrangements nave been f4iled tQ i£ ake , known to the gentlemen concerned the tenor of bilitips of official emnlovment), but some voice, evea settled by writing, the correspondence is always your concluding paragraph, m reference to which, no hesitation. A' influential voice, in the determination of a produced (hear, hear). Of course ; for who would u ?i^^S n^ff^J?3 polby fortbe general government of the colony, and l.hmk of trusting to the, recollection of woids about re o-ived troin them on the subject. in 1 the selection of the men by whom such po- a contract when the agreement was ;made in black i have the honor, &c, lKy was to-be carried out (cheers). Nothing of and white for *c pu^o.e of acroracy and record ? (S «ned) J™-**^ the sort was accorded to me, but, instead, I was (hear, hear.) Ihe purchaser ot an estate with a FitZ gerald, Esq.., fcc.&e.&o., Auckland. kept.in total ignorance of what was going on, until .conveyance m his possession, might as well go into • • b every "thing had been settled. Then, but not before, court for redt ess, in some dispute dbout the title, C copy.3 (N0.1.) attempt* made to s'ecme my approval and without producing the c ? ntr ? c 'j *"f *£«£ the be d> support of the new arrangements. I could l.ot ,-^dge and jury to depend .on bis recollection of jj^^," ,on b eing made for him, ,to resign his office, when cordially approve of them The appointment of a -words which had passed between him and tne sel« th ,, Re p resen 'tdtive of the Crown snail intimate to him that the "prime minister," as if Parliamentary Government le'r , ('cheers). This matter, "involving the adop- interests of the Colony would .bt promoted by Ms doing so. ,hadbeen fully established in the same way as at ti^n 1 of a new principle of government, was of quite , , (Signed) secretary. home, appeared to me ridiculous (laughter and aVmuch importance to the colony as is the pur- • - hearihear). I had the strongest objections to making xhaie of an estaterjtojhe seller an.d buyer. TheTar- [Copy.] (N0.2) any Superintendent jbe leader, or the new Govern- .rnpgement was actually made by vvntten i docu- yen appointldVr' &, ment, being sure that he wpuld take into the Exe- mauta; but these were stipprgssed (Mr. Ludlam TO £™|*™^lf to beanofficer responsible to thed-own. But cutive Council of the Colony his Superintendent's '7.110*," "no"); at ajny rite;* 1 t^hey were not pro- that eit )ier with or without any retin.-g provuio.i whatever, if mind and" his" own Provincial 1 ideas (hear.'hear). I' Sliced (laughter and cheers) ; and it is plain thatm -^Vjesxa^t^wottiMCnwnAMintim^uTima^bß thought it not improbable that New Zealand would this case non-production amqunted to suppression £££ 'have a Canterbury Government (hear, hear). Then, (cheers). documents were J not read; nor were S^tertTyttmL ' - though I had a high opinion of Mr. Sewell's abilities, they laidioMhe taWe ofthe^Hoase for aweek;'nor , . , (Signed) Wiwum swain-son, and thought that his talents, under proper* control/ tlien by the ministers spontaneously, but only be- , • Auarney-beaewi.

w^B deeply, impressed with the , belief ;tha£ success would be unattainable, unless the proceedings of the House were guided, by such qualities.' as judgment, moderation* prudence, and discretion (hear, hear), with careful pains taking to give no , offence in any quarter, and to conciliate good will towards the object in view (cheers). ;The Auckland members, being a third of the House; had paid far less attention to the subject than the" members from the South. The doctrine of Responsible Government wai alarming to them, because its object was to make the wish 6f the majority prevail m all matters of government"; because the South had 25 members against l£ from the North 1 ; fye&nise the minority of course remembered the long and bitter feud between the North and the South; because they imagined that the grant of Responsible Government would nlace the North at the mercy of the South. It is notorious that the Northern comm'fthity viewed the meeting of the General Assembly with distrust and fear, and that they dteaded lest' a system of ministerial responsibility »h'ould e£p6se their part of the colony to measures of injustice at the hands of the Southern majority (hear,- hear). I was not surprised, therefore, when, in the course of the de- 1 bates on the Responsible Government resolution proposed by me, an Auckland member asked me to state to the House my view of the manner in which Responsible Government would afijict the. interests of the North, considering their minority in the legislature. The question was carefully prepared, and deliberately asked. In replying to it, las deliberately entered into the wholo subject of past differences and present rivalries and jealousies between the North and tht^onthf and declared, with ample explanations, that, in my own opinion, considering the special or peculiar circumstances of the North and the entire present separation of Auckland from the Southern Provinces, it would be only just and wise in the Assembly, in any legislation by them affecting Auckland, and in the conduct of the General Executive, to adopt the principle under which Scotland, though fully part of the United Kingdom, is governed in a great measure separately from England. I had broached that doptrine at Wellington, and I now explained it fully, dwelling at length on the manner in which, in the British Parliament and Government, the members frowi i Si otland in the two Houses of Parliament, and V Scottish Minister or two in the Cabinet, virtually, regulate the affairs of Scotland without interference by English members of Parliament or English minis-* ters (hear, hear) ; and I called on the members^ from the South to express agreement with me in the opinion that in the government of New Zealand,, executive as well as legislative, the same principle ought to be applied to Auckland. This view of the subject appeared to meet with general approval in the House ; and there can be no doubt that it had the effect of converting the Auckland members into heing friendly instead of hostile to the system of ■ Responsible Government (cheers). On that occasion, I was advised in private by moi c than one Southern member to avoid the subject of the Seat of Government, as one which might cause division when unanimity was so desirable ; but I thought i that the best course was to speak out what was in i my thoughts; and I declared my own opinion to i be that, under all circumstances, justice to New Zealand required that the meetings of the General i Legislature should be held somewhere about the centre of the Islands. This was done very dis- ■. tinctly, but without giving any offence to the Auckland members, because they saw, I believe, ■ that I was sincereiy desirous of seeing real justice done to Auckland in every respect (cheers). At any rate, with the exception of one, who, though ■ he adopted the principle, yet thought that it coultl not be fully carried out without the consent of her Majesty, the Auckland members now joined those from the South in supporting my Resolution, which was carried all but unanimously, and presented to the Governor by Address. His Excellency's ; answer to the Address fully conceded the principle (cheers) ; and then the question aiose as to the extent and manner of giving effect to it. In the course of the previous debates, I'J^f«Utafeen -care to , State witnt appeared.to—Eeio me- the right view as to ulterior steps in case the Gdveruor should take the first one by admitting the principle. . Adverting to the embarrased position of his Excellency, whose high office had not been bestowed upon him by the confidence of the Crown, but had fallen en him through the accident of his being the senior officer commanding the troops, and who was therefore -entitled to avoid incurring any weighty responsibility, \ had declared amidst cheers of approbation from the House, that if his Excellency granted the principle, I should be contented With the smallest reality in practice, though discontented with the largest possible sham (cheers)," I never dreamt — and this was distinctly avowed-'-of asking; him to turn out the actual members of his Executive Council and put a new set in their place. On the contrary, I engaged to give a fair support to the Government, provided only one member of the House of Representatives had a seat in theExecutive Council, and were held bound to resign that seat whenever deprived of the confidence of the representative body (hear* hear.) This was called at the time a "modicum of responsible government;" and every body appeared to agree with me in thinking that it would be wise, and indeed only prudent in the House to be content with this modicum,- — this small instalment of the real thing — rather than mk the loss of all by insisting on more than an Officer Administering the Government might deem himself warranted in granting (hear, hear.) But he granted the whole principle without any qualification, promised the whole thing as soon as possible, offered to add three members of the legislature to his Executive Council, and undertook to be guided by their advice in carrying on the business of the Government so long as they should enjoy the confidence of the House. 'I hat was an immense concession (cheers>). Some colonies having full representation in an Assembly, struggled for twenty years before they obtained as much ; and a struggle for about seven years was the shortest by which any colony had secured any real ministerial responsibility in its government (hear. hear). In three days we obtained this great concession (cheers). I threw up my hat, delighted^ with the victory (cheers). I said then, and still believe, that never was I so well pleased as on that most happy day (loud cheers). Well, the Governor had done his part, and most amply : all the rest now depended upon us, the Members of the House of Representatives. It was our business to intimate to the Governor by what selection of men to fill 3 seats in the Executive Council, and by what policy of legislative measures, the House could be brought into working harmony with the Executive. This could not, according to constitutional usage at home, be done in a formal or direct manner.^ It was attempted by means of private negotiations originating with his Excellency, as represented by the Attorney-General. In those negotiations, I had leally no part; I was never really consulte I (loud and repeated cries of "hear"). In fact, I was carefully excluded from them (repeated cries of " hear"). In the victory which had been won, my part had been that of the general, but I was allowed no part of the spoils (hear, hear, hear). Now, the part which I desired, was not office, (for it was well knownj;o every body that nothing would induce me to ' undertake the labours and responsibilities of official employment), but some voice, even, an' influential voice, in the determination of a policy for the general government of the colony, and in l the selection of the men by whom such policy was tobe carried out (cheers). Nothing of "the sort was accorded to me, but, instead, I was kept.in total ignorance of what was going on, until every "thing had been settled. Then, but not before, attempts were made to secme my approval and support of the "new arrangements. I could liOt cordially approve of them. The appointment of a " prime minister," as if Parliamentary Government ,had been fully established in the same way as at home, appeared to me ridiculous (laughter and hearjhear). I had the strongest objections to making any Superintendent \he leader- of the new Government, being sure that he wpuld take into ( the Executive Council of the Colony;' his Superintendent s mind and his own Provincial 1 ideas (hear.'hear). F thought it not improbable' that New Zealand would have a Canterbury Government (hear, hear). Theiii though I had a high opinion of Mr. Sewell's abilities, atid thought that his talents, under proper., control;

might be of reai'temporary service' to the 'colony, yet I saw objections to placing another Canterbury man irtrth'e General Government; and I knew that Mr* Sewell cared nothing about, New Zealand, or 'even about Canterbury,' but that he, was a mere bird of passage, bent on' quitting the Colony for ever as soon as he should accomplish the sole object of his presence in New Zealand, which was an arrangement, which needed legislative action, of certain claims of the Canterbury Association on the Waste Lands of the Province of Canterbury (loud cries of "hear"). I knew that whatever others might be, be would not be really responsible to any body, because, when his personal object was once obtained, he would go away to England, and would be totally indifferent about the opinion 6f his Constituents or of the Assembly with regard to him (hear, .hear) ; nay, that he would never again shew his face to bis constituents (hear, hear). To Mr. Weld, I had no objection,' but was glad to see him disposed to take part in, the government of the Colony, though I could not but fear that* as a col- ' league of Mr. Fitzgerald and Mr. Sewell, he Would probably be very subject to their influence, it appeared to me also that a great blunder bad been committed in leaving Auckland wholly unrepresented in the Cabinet (hear, Jiear); and worse than a blunder, because the omission was a gross breach of the sort of understanding in the House, as to special government for Auckland, whereby the Auckland members had been led to vote for the system of an Executive Council responsible to the Assembly (cheers). Andjlasfly, though on principle I have always dislik'eGTVhe plan of a second branch of the legislature consisting uf members apDointed by the Crown for life, and was then, as I am now, persuaded that our Constitution will not work well until the character of an elected Senate shall be given to /the Legislative Council, ypt I could not be blind to the**'fact that the Legislative Council, as composed of Nominees according to the Constitution Act, is a co-ordinate branch of the Assembly, whose assent to measures is just as necessary as that of the Governor or of the House of Representatives; and therefore the formation of a cabinet in which the Legislative CoutVcil was to be wholly unrepresented, appeared to me as absurd .and foolish as the attempt would be at home to form a cabinet of ministers in which there should be no member of the House of Lords (hear, hear); and secondly, the Attorney-General, who was a -member of the Executive Council, \va3 also Speaker c.of the Legislative Council ; but it was known, as he took the first opportunity of declaring, that he ..objected to being considered a responsible minister, jand would not undertake to represent the Exectt'tive in the branch of the Legislature of which he "was a member. Consequently, the Legislative Council was to be left, as the House of Representatives had been, without any proper means of communication between it and the Executive. We had got them, and could not get rid of them ; there they were, and no law could be passed, nothing important could be done, without their consent ; and yetjthey were utterly disregarded} or rather treated with contempt, as if no such body existed (hear, hear). That, I thought and still think, was a piece of egregious folly (cheers). Such were my objections" to the intended plan of a ministry, when informfed of it by Mr. Sewell. He very urgently pressed me to meet him in private with Mr. Fitzgerald, Mr, Weld, Mr. Carleion, and Dr. Campbell, for thfe purpose of talking over the matter. I objected and declined, on the ground that such meeting wa^ intended to be wholly confidential or secret, ana that my relations with the House oti the subject of Responsible Government, and with several of its members as political friends, precluded me from talcing part in any private or secret negotiations or' discfissions. The next daj , Mr. Sewell and Mr. Weld came to me, and again uiged me to meet them and their friends in private ; and 1 again declined, but undertook to Communicate to my friends and other members what they had communicated to me. Accoidingly, I got together several of my friends, being, if I recollect right, on« from OljSgt JpnefromCanterbni-y, one from Nelson, one from New Plymouth, and one from Auckland ; when we instantly resolved, without going into the subject at all, to call a meeting of all the members, and lay thetohole matter befoie them. This'-gene*-ral meeting was called, at King's Boarding House, and Mr.-Se*sVeil gave me in writing, with Mr. Fitzgerald's asuent, a sort of programme of the intended arrangements. I took this paper to the meeting, which was attended by, I think, 29 members of the House of Representatives, and read it to them. It differed in two respec's from what I had heard before, by stating that' Dr. Campbell, "in addition to Mr. Fitzgerald, Mr. Sewell, and Mr. Weld, was to have a seat in the Executive Council, and that the Attorney-General would resign, his office-, and re-accej)tit on the tenure of the responsible principle. The firstof these novelties appeared highly displeasfrig to most of the Auckland members ; for Dr. Campbell was not a member of either House : and though it was understood that he should endeavour to obtain a seat in the Representative Body, doubts were expressed as to whether he could get elected by any Auckland constituency. The second proposal — that, I mean, with regardjcachangein the tenure of the Attorney-Ge-nerai's office — appeared to give general satisfaction. However, a member got up, and asked whether I had leen consulted in framing this plan, and, if not, why not? (hear, hear.) I answered that I had not beep consulted, but that in the present emergency, everybody might have to make some sacrifice of personal feelings, and that I was Willing to make tha/ of bearing without complaint the ill compliment of having been excluded from all voice in the selection of a ministry (cheeis). 1 requested that on that subject, nothing more might be said} and the meeting separated without expressing any definileOpinions. In fact, the thing was done, and cuuld not be altered; and I, for one, resolved to make the best of it. Having that intention, Irecollected with satisfaction that Mr. Fitzgerald had derived from me his opinions on subjects relating i'to colonization and colonial government—that, indeed, until he knew me> he had no opinions, nor any knowledge, on any of those subjects; that to Mr. Sewell. I had been,' as he afterwards called me in the House, his pastor and master with regard to such subjects; and that Mr. Weld had but recently expressed to me, in more ways than one, his adhesion to my views of policy for New Zealand. I therefore hoped, notwithstanding my.objections^to the composition of the ministry, that": their policy 'might be agreeable to me ; and at all events, 1 felt bound by my previous engagements in the House with regard to a modicum of responsible government, to give the Fitzgerald ministry a fair trial, and j to support and assist them to the best of my ability, short of sacrificing any important principle or cherished opinion (cheers). The House of Representatives had adjourned for a week in order to give 'Mr. Fitzgerald time for making his arrangements. When they met again he laid before them a statement of his negotiations with the Governor, of their, result, and of the policy of the new Government. Not doubting" that^ there had been some correspondence between him and the Governor, though I could not be sure of the fact, I was surprise^ that he,c<>nfin t ed'himsejf.to a word-of-mouth report, and produced no ~iYncumeiH&. In such cases, whenever important arrangements have been settled by writing, the correspondence is always produced (hear, hear). Of course; , for who would think of trusting to the, recollection of words about a contract when the agreement was;made in black and white for the purpose of accuracy and record 1 (hear, hear.) Tlie purchaser of an estate, with" a .conveyance in his possession, might as well go into court for redtess, in some dispute about the title, without producing the contract, but asking the ."3\«dge and jury to depend on' his recollection of -words which had passed between him and the seller .('cheers). This matter, "involving the adoption' of a new principle of government, was of quite aVmuch importance to the colony as is the pur:cha£e of an estateHo'the seller arid buyer. TheTar.rangement was actually inane by written documents: but these were ■suppressed (Mr. Ludlam 'h'noV "no") 5 at dny rlte^'^hey were not pro'*duced (laughter and Cheers) ; and it is plain thatiu this case non-production amqunted to suppression (cheers). x -The" documents V'ere'not read; nor were they, laidion.the taWe of the^Hoase for a week ;'nor then! by the ministers spontaneously, but only be-

cause they, were called for by a member unconnected with the Government. According to my notions they Were suppressed for a week (cheers); and Sure I am, that never before, either in Eng'aud or ir) any colony governed on the responsible principle; were" documents of such importance — documents containing the result of negotiations by which a new mode of government was established— withheld for a week, or for an hour unnecessarily, from the knowledge of the representatives of the people (cheers). The fact showed at least that the new ministers were not very well acquainted with the usages of Eesponsible Government (laughter and cheers.) However, the Prime Minister made his statement of arrangements and policy by a speech of great ability and pretension ; and on that statement the House was called on to pass judgment. On such statement by a minister, it is usual for independent members, as well as partisans of the Government, to «xpress their opinions. As one of the former, I reviewed Mr. Fit^erald's speech. What I said, has been fully reported in the newspapers; and 1 am not going 1 to trouble you with any repetition of it; but all who have read it will recollect, that whilst tendering to the new Government such support as could be given consistently with my oWn fixed opinions, I very caretully guarded myself from expressing unqualified confidence in them (hear, hear, hear ) In fact, though avoiding- every thing like unfriendly attack, but rather 'speaking in a tone of friendly counsel, and distinctly expressing my wish_and intention to support the Governm'enraYftrr as it would be possible for me to do so, 1 alluded to the objections to the composition of the ministry which have been mentioned to you this evening, and, in particular, I dwelt on the impropriety of the position taken by the Superintendent of Canterbury, and to the absence on Mr.'SeweH's part of real lesponsiHility to the House or to his constituents. And further, with regard to the grand policy announced, I pointedly warned the ministers of the danger which commonly attends on great and sudden p:ospeiit> — the danger which is commonly expressed by saying that when a beggar is set on horseback, he is apt to ride straight to the devil (laughter and cheers.) In short, I Dreached a sermon on moderation and prudence, forbearance and caution; a sermon which was far from agreeable to the ministers; for Mr. Fitzgerald exhibited displeasure at my remarks, and Mr. Sewell called them " a speech of dissatisfaction and discontent." The displeasure of Mr. Revans, a.n out-and-out partizm of the new Government, w.as exhibited in a characteristic manner. Immediately after the delivery of my criticism on theministerial statement, the members of the House proceeded to the Masonic Hall, where the Auckland members had invited those from the South to meet them at a public dmner. It was a grand affair; the dinner excellent; Every body in high spirits; the Prime Minister sitting in glory on the right hand of the chairman; the future Solicitor-General and Colonial Secretary on his left; a sort of celebration of the triumph of Responsible Government, and of the formation of a responsible ministry. The chairman, when proposing the health of the Southern members, the guests of the day, coupled my name with the toast, to which I of course responded in terms of cordiality towards our hosts. Mr. Revans then jumped up, and with great violence of manner, objected to the toast as having my name coupled with it, and spoke of me in the' most offensive and insulting manner. Fortunately I managed to keep my own temper, and, not having drunk any champagne, I was able, by begging several of my friends to be quiet, to prevent the discreditable scene which at one time appeared imminent (cheers). I mention Jhi* circumstance, in order that you may compare the rage of Mr. Revans (who till then had piofessed to be on the must friendly terms with me), which, there can be no doubt, arose from my having expressed doubts and feais about "the ministry rather than unlimited confidence in them, and with Mr. Ludlam's assurance to you > hat it was by me^that th,e ministers -were fouueed to accept ofhee, that"! promised them_ my warmest support, and that m^ subsequent opposition to them, when they fell into dispute with the Governor, was an act of basene-s, treachery, and cruelty (loud cries of hear). As in the riouse just before this dinner, the ministers complained of my vant of confidence in ihem, so, at this dinner, Mr. Revans insulted me, because I had just given the m'nisters warning that I was anv'hing but a blind partizan of theirs. In truth I distrusted them, and seized the first opportunity of publicly s.i>mg so, though at the same time I engaged to go along with them if my doubts and fe«rs -.hoold turn out to be unfounded (cheers'). The House had now to wait for their measures, but before any of these were produced we got sight of what I have called the suppressed correspondence. It is very short ; and it contains the whole contract on both sides— the stipulations of the Minister, with the concession by the Government, and the conditions which bis Excellency attached to the bargain. Nothing ielse passed in writing: here you have the entire agreement. Mr. Wakefield then read the following documents :—: — (No. 4.) " Auckland, 10th June, 1854 Slit, — In obedience to your Excellency's commands I have communicated -with those gentlemen who would, I Conceive, be able to conduct the Legislative business of the Government in the House of EepresenNtives, and would be willing to accept seats in the Executive Council for that purpose, and I have the honor to name to your Excellency F. A. Weld, Esq., and H Sewell, Esq., who, together with myself, are ready to undertake that task. I beg at the lame time to represent to your Excellency that it would materially facilitate the conduct oi legislation, and would tend to obtain the general confidence «? the people if a fourth member were added to the Executive Council, being an inhabitant of Auckland, and in a position to represent the special interests of the Auckland community; at the same time I regret that lam unable -at piesont to n-.me such a person to your Excellency, but I hope 'o l.c able to do so in a few days. In accepting office foi the above purpose, I am to express on my own part and that of my co leagues, that we do so on the understanding that in accoi dance with the arrangement suggested by the Attorney-General, a Bill shall be immediately introduced into the House of Representatives for the purpose of securing to the present holders of the offices of Secretary, Treasurer, and Attorney-General, such compensation as the House may deem to be fair and reasonable upon a full consideration of their respective claims, and th >t those gentlemen shall resign their offices as soon as the convenience of the public seivice shall require it, I have the honor to be, Sir, with the greatest respect, Your Excellency's most obedient humble servant, (Signed) James Edwakd J?itzgeraw>. To His Excellency the Officer Administering the Government.

rCopy.] (No. 5.) Government House? Auckland, June 10, 1854. Sir, — I have the honor to acknowledge, thfe. receipt of your communication of this day*s date, and m reference thereto, beg to state I am happy to hnd you disposed and enabled to carry out the proposition ma le to you by me on receiving a. resolution from the House of RepiesenUtives in connection with the desire of that body for i system <f Responsible Government; and to acquaint you that I shall have pleasure in appointing you, and the two gentlem -n named by you, to seats in the Executive Council, provisionally, till the pleasure of Her Majesty is known thereon ,- and he prepared moreover to lepose in you my entire confidence, while carrying on the Legislative business Of the Government through l the Assembly. The introduction of a fourth member into the Executive Council, I conceive uncalled for at present It might embarrass the officer appointed to relieve me, and, on the other hand, the interest of the Auckland community can never fail to enjoy protection while'the existing members retain their seats in the Executive Council. With regard to the third and last point alluded to, I feel convinced you will agree with me in the inexpediency of my disturbing iv any way, as temporarily administering the Government, the position of those now in office; at all events till I am honoured with the views of Her Majesty's Home Government on the steps I have already talten. In the meantime I have not failed to makeknown to the gentlemen concerned the tenor of your concluding paragraph, in reference to which, no hesitation, I find, exists oh their parts to meet the requirements of Her Mdjesty's Governmen , as'will he seen by the enclosed copies of notes I have rec-ived irom them on the subject. I have the honor, &c, (S sned) R. H. "Wynyard, Officer Administenng the Government. To J. E. Fitzgerald, Esq., &c.,&<5 ,&c, Auckland.

CCOPy-3C C0Py - 3 (N0 ' M 10th June, 1854. The Colonial Sec etary -will be prepared, on a reasonable retiring provision being made for him, to resign his office, when the Representative of the Crown snail intimate to him that the interests of the Colony would he promoted by Iris doing so. (Signed) Asdkew Sinci-air* ■ ■> f Colonial Secretary.

rCoDv/1 (No. 2 ) LCOPyj 10th June, 1354. The Attomey-'Jeneral having bren appointed by the Crown, conceives himself to be an officer re-ponsible to the Crown. But that either with or without any retim.g proVuiou whatever, if *he Representative of the Crown shall intimate to him that the interests of the Public Service, or of Her Mi\jestyV Colonial tttbjtcts would tie promoted by his retirement, he will be ready to xelire at ir-y time. ' ' " * i . (Signed) Wij.£iam Swainson, . ', Attarney-Geaer^l.

• [Copy} "' " (No. 3.) iir _ t • lothjrtine,-18S<: ' [ The Colonial T/reasWer having bren appointed by the Crown, • will be prepared, provided an Act be p-iised by the* Assembly, ■ making fitting for hi retirement immediately to ten- , rter hii> resignation to ttte Crown, and upon the confirmation of su»-h Act by thr Crown.'-and the acceptance of his resignation, ' be prepared immediately to give tap office. — ( i (bigned) Alexander Shepherd, Co'onial Treasurer. ■ Now yon know what it was that Mr. Fitzgerald left out of his' ministerial statement. The main fact suppressed — and it was the most important fact of all — was that the Governor distinctly informed the intended ministers that he "could not remove any of the old members of his, Executive Council from office until he should learn her"Majesty's pleasure on the concession of 3 new seats in that Council which he was ready to make ""(hear, hear). It a'so became plain that the Attorney-Gen-eral held never intended to quit office and.reacceptonthe 1 principle (^responsibility, and thatjn that particular the meeting of 29' members at King's Boarding House had been entirely misled by Mr. Se~ well's memorandum (hear, hear). These discoveries certainly augmented my distrust of the ministry. I, however, complained no more, but waited patiently for their measures. The first that came before us, to which I- attached much importance, was their Empowering Bill, being a bill for determining" the relations and respective powers of the General and Proyinciai Governments. I objected to it altogether, onstjtfe/groriud' that its tendency was to confound the functions of the two distinct ! systems of government which the Constitution estabi lishes in New Zealand, and to degrade the Provincial 1 Legislatures and Executives, by making 'them inapro- '• pedy subject to the General Executive. I illustrated • my objections by showing that if the proposed law were passed, a Superintendent, feeing the head of a Provin1 cial Government, might be ordered about within his ' Province by the Colonial Secretary or other officer of ! the General Government. Severe illness at the time 1 (for I was confined to bed by inflammation of the lungs) ~ 1 prevented me from opposing this Bill in some of its " stages ; but, on recovering, I protested against the third 1 reading for the reasons now stated (hear, hear.) This • measure, as it indicated a desire in the ministry to grasp ' at power for the General" Executive, increased my dis- ' trust of them as the very persons on whom increased ! power was to be bestowed by the Bill. But that effect was produced in a still larger degree by their Waste Lands Bill, which providedi that unlimited powers of legislation with regard to the Waste Lands should be vested in the General Executive, subject only, before I such legislation could take effect, to the approval of the Provincial Legislatures. It was as if the Parliament at home should give legislative authority oa a matter of the utmost importance to the cabinet of ministers (hear, . hear): a thing which was 'never -heard, thought, or, [ dreamt of by British statesmen (cheers). Mr. Ludlam [ has said that my " only objection to the Bill was, that \ it would enable the Provincial Governments to job the f land." This is a mistake of his. I spoke only of tbe , Provincial Government of Wellington, cofining the remark to the only Provincial Government with which., ' I was acquainted, and which I believed would, if the » General Executive gave it the opportunity, dispose of p the land with partiality e^ad favoritism towards its ( friends (cheers). But my main objection to the Bill . was that it placed power to enable a Provincial Got vernment to job the lands, and every other power, in the . hands of Messrs. Fitzgerald, Sewell, and -Weld ; and I > thought then, as I 'say now, that if I bad not opposed - that measure, you ought to send me about my business p (cheers). But there was another objection which . weighed greatly with me. According to the resoluI tions of the electors of this Province at Wellington, their memoers were to seek to obtain for the Provinces s Ihe entire administration of the Waste Lands "subi ject to general rules to be framed by the General As- ( sembly." But the Fitzgerald -Sewell Bill contained no 1 general rues ; it merely handed over to those gentle- ■ men authority-to make laws at their pleasure ; and it 3 did not contain a word intended either to gujuyLifoes interests of the people"," "or to.'provide for immigration^ - Hnd public-Works (Hear, Tie<JrJ. The whole matter, ia • a word, was to be handed over to those with whom Mr. 1 Ludlam was in close alliance (hear, hear). Thepractii cal effect of the Bill was to place the lands at the dis- ! posal of the Squattocracy of Wellington, Nelson, and I Canterbury, whose representatives in the Assembly i were the mainstay" of the Fitzgerald ministry (hear, ' hear) ; and therefore I objected to it, and opposed it '' by all the means in my power (cheers). By the Auckland community which surrounded us, the subject was very fully and keenly discussed. I» that Province, there are no great runholders seeling to monopolize ' the freehold of their pastoral occupations ; the lands 1 are all agricultural ; and there is a general desire to i, promote occupation by industrious and productive settlers. Consequently at Auckland, there is no sympathy with the Southern Squattocracy, and the Fitzgerald-Sewell measure as 1 ' to the Waste Lands was highly unpopular. Mr. Ludlam says that I sold the South to the North ; but I declare that the Nortb helped me to prevent the Southern representatives from establishing a system of land-monopoly which would bave been fatal to the interests of the colony (cheers)* It was on the occasion of the second reading of the Waste Lands Bill, that I expressed a total want of cori» fidence in its authors. The Bill went into committee, and I then proposed the amendments which gave suck . mortal offence to the ministry and their supporters. The object of these amendments was to provide certain, additions to the law, being these two general rules $ first, that at least one-third of all the waste lauds in every district, and of average quality both as to ferti* lity and position, should be set apart for exclusive appropriation by bonafide occupying settlers, who, ia ; paying for tbe same at the lowest' fixed price required for waste land, should be, allowed credit for four years, so that they might earn the pufcllase- money out of Jhe , land (cheers) ; secondly, that inasmuch as a law made by angels might be utterly spoiled by bad administration — inasmuch as a bad law very well administered might be better than the best law very ill administered — the entire 'administration of the waste lands law ■ should be entrusted to an open Bqard, sitting and carrying on all their proceedings with the same degree of publicity as that which distinguishes courts of justice (hear bear). That proposal was met with a storm of opposition by the ministry and their supporters — by as fierce a scorn as they could have felt if I 'had suggested at this time of war for our country, that we should transfer our allegiance to Russia* (hear, bear). And good reason for it (laughter and cheers). The debates on this subject were not fully reported, because the presses of Auckland were over-run with business ia printing for the Assembly ; but if they had been, you would have known that at this time I was the object of incessant personal attack and abuse from those who differed from me on this subject. It was then that Mr. Ludlam, speaking in tbe House of Representatives, asked what business I, who professed care for tbe interests of the working classes, had to sell my own land for so high a price as £25 per acre.; and you, w.ouAd have known how I answered him, 'not asking by way" of retort, as I might fairly have 'done, at what price he sold hisland, but expressing^regret at bis spiteful feelings towards me, giving him credit . for sympathy with his . neighbours . the working set-__ tiers of the Hutt, and M saying . whatever I could think of that was justly to him (hearty cheers). Still I did* -not despair. All other questions appeared to, me of mino.r importance ; beaten in the House of Representatives, 4I4 I turned, with hope to - the Legislative Council. , The s m ( embers of this body are generally men of independent means and character, such as those ought to be who form a branch of the legislature intended to provide for correction after second thoughts ; and moreover jiiti seemed not impossi- - ble that their sense, of; the unpopularity of a Nominee - Council might dispose them ( to' liberal and popular views of legislative questions, or, at least, to more liberal and popular views than those whijh actually pre- ' vailed in our' House. And so it turned out. Aftertaking every pains to ascertain their opinions with re- % gard to the Fitzgei aid Waste -Lands Bill, and my owu _ rejected amendments, I became satisfied that when, that - bill reached the Legislative Council, they would turn ifc inside out, by giving the first pqwer of legislation to the Provinces,, with only a, veto to the General Execu--< : tive ; and that they would iv some way give effect to Ihe % principle* of my amendment. This belief iras most satisfactory to me ; for I could not but hope that if the bill came back to bur. House so it would be--adopted by the majority in that.improved form. But _n „«' ...J4._ *v. M m J » remarkable niuse ia aus-

House. The buiincw of legislation settned to be stopped. No progress was nmdewith either the Executive Government .BM, ot Bill, or the Waste Lands -Bill. No Bills W moved forward another stage. :But one day the Minister* came to the House with longfaces, alluded in' mournfajsbut .vague terms to discoveries of serious import* made by them with regard tothe ,financiii state of -the colony, and moved for a Select Committee of Finance to investigate the matter. They mentioned nothing specific, and it ■was rather their tone and manner than their words, which produced a sort of alarm in the House. At this time, howevef; there was an election at Auckland to fill up a vacancy ~in the House of Representatives ; and a close ally of 4he .Ministers, Mr. 1 Brown, was oue of the candidates. ; I attended that' elfefctionV , and heard, Mr. Brown on the baitings, more candid than his friends in office, assure tthe public that' regent Viwra>veries;,sho wed the colonyto^e bankrupt to th'e amount of half a .million,, and tha\; the: Provincial Governments were also involved to large amounts.- Hesaid that tfisfrightfulstateof things had been.broughtiabout by the' misconduct of the ' old ■officials, 1 ' and that they all would be kicked out without delay. : His statement _wa« circulated throughout the Australian Colonies, and of course supposed to be <sorrect, though there was not a word of truth in it; for the enquiries of the Financial Committee before mentioned showed the financial state; both of the Prowinces and of the Colony if a whole, to be in a highly prosperous and flourshing state, as the House was -afterwards assured by the chairman of that Committee. But the Committee made no report. For before it had «at more than two or three times, and immediately after Mr. Brown's announcement of a General and Provincial bankruptcy, Mr. Fijzgerald came to the House and informed us that he and; his colleagues were no longer ministers (hear, hear? hear). As they still had the support of large majorities,- the announcement of course surprised the House. .By degrees, however, they told' their story, which anjoun^e'd to this— that they had requested his Excellency to, place the whole Executive Council at their .disposal M immediately removing all the old officials! and, that . upon his refusal to take such a step until ha should learn her Majesty's pleasure l upon what he had done, they had resigned their own seats injthe Council. Then came liis Excellency's call upon; me, to advise" him in the difficulties in which he war.placed by the resignation of the Ministers. He directed my > attention to the correspondence which had pasted between MrJ Fitzgerald and himself, and which I have read to jou'this evening, and also to a further correspondence which set forth the demands of the Ministers, with his refusal to comply with them. He referred to the unusual responsibility whictf lie had incurred hj< cqnvening the Assembly, though he was but an accidental .and -temporary administrator of the Government {/J^e dwelt on the furt her,' responsibility which, weighed "Jon" Him in consequence "of his having conceaed t >i?hont the consent of her Majesty, a large instalment of^Resporisible Government, by adding three members,o£ft)ie.Houseof. Representatives to his Executive jCpunciJL; anil be said that he dared not comply with the nftw«d.en|ftMmaaeiipon him, which required not only that" be should remove officers whom he was 1 pledged to keep,in their seats until he received the Queen's- consent to their removal, but also that be should wholly .abandon the government to new and unknown men. without the sanction of the Imperial authorities. He could, not, and would not do, if (cheers).- The Officer Administering the Government is a kindly, what is called an "easy going man, ever willing to please and conciliate ; but I saw -that, as often happens with men of that character, when he had once made a stand, he would be immove--able, and that he was as likely to ,give way on this occasion a* to turn his back to the enemy. I asked two questions, in answer to which his Excellency declared, first, that he had adopted every suggestion made to him by Mr. Fitzgerald whilst ibat gentleman wa« in office, and, secondly, that in carrying on the Government, be had never taken any important step except on the Jidyice of the three responsible ministers. He declared that he had strictly, m every particular, observed his contract^witn those genllenreu. -The omaa waa^to my mind tso plain, that I could not hesitate to comply with his' Excellency's wish for my advice ; but I respectfully stipulated, fiist, that the object of such advice should be to preserve fully the instalment of Responsible Government which had been granted; secondly, that 1 should not be expected to take any office myself, but should only be consulted as Mr. Fitzgerald had been before he was sworn in as a member of the Executive Council ; and thirdly, that my advice alone should prevail with his Excellency, though I could not object to his obtaining the concurrence and .'support of the members of his Executive Council in "taking ihy itep recommended bj me as the sole ad- . -riser (hear, hear). 'To tiiii last point I- shall have to /revert by and by, in order to' explain what Mr. Lndlam * : '«ays has puzzled him so.much. The first step which 1 recommended, was that his Excellency should fully explain ta the House by his own view of the "differences between.himself and the ex-ministers, and that this should be done in the manner the most conciliatory towards the House. Here is the Mesiage that was sent, and which, thpugh fearful of wearying you, I will read for the information of electors who have never seen it. With the documents appended to it. it contains the whole matter in dispute between the Go'vernorand the ex-ministers. [Mr. Wakefield here read through Message, No. 25, which was published in the Spectator of the 19th August.] This plain , moderate, and cenciliatory^statement by the. Governor was received with fury by .the ex- ministers and their supporters, who, in answer to it, carried an address to his \* Excellency, which, jnjmy Opinion at least, was both violent and insulting* Arid now began a series of . fierce personal attacks upon me, as the " sole adviser Jof the Message. Another 'address was sent to his Excellency, complainingip.fr his Tiaving taken advice from r one not sworn in as a; member of his Executive Coun- ' TcilJ instead of being; guided by the members of that /,b'ody. His Excellences answer quietly informed the ' House that he had taken no 'step without the concur- ', 'rence and support of hi§ sworn advisers ; and there, of J , iourseV that matter propped. .Mr. Ludlana Bays that he hts never been able to understand it, and that it is still a "puzzle" to him; that the Governor said one thing and I another, as if there were any difficulty in reconciling my statement that I was the sole adviser with his : Excellency's statement that erery step taken by him had the concurrence and support of his swornadvisers. lam afraid that Mr., Ludlam will never get out of his - «' puzzle." -He/was always in a puzzle about these "~lHings,Tiavteg" b'adtis 1 head -putnnto'*-bajr«t-a-house->*"-called St. Klin's, where he resided with Mr. Fitzge »' raid,- and, Mfl RevrinV (laughter and cheers.) Bat we must proceed to more important matters. The ex- ■ ministers now followed 1 upwith a vengeance whnt may be termed the bullying policy < whereby their first demand w,as enforced. They' had .before, as appears by thercorrespohdence] attempted to frighten his Excellency "•"toy describing "formidable 'opposition'' to the Governrr> ment.in both Hocuses* of the Legislature — which was all "oflincy, for tbere*heveV"was : any-- serions opposition to • -them jn either House; -by describing, the finances as in ' i* state of disorder and ruin— which was all moonshine, - for the accounts of 'revenue and expenditure exhibited , a/most prosperous state of things; and by assuring the • Governor that before their dispute with him the House of was' disposed to " stop the supplies " <-=— which was a most unfounded menace, for until the -'■Ministers said so to the Governor, such an idea had never .entered into the head of anybody ; but now they ' .leaped menace upon menace, and were even so wild as "to speak of danger to the .colony threatened by the r-<r -< war with Russia as a reason why they thought their dej'stands should be complied^ with (laughter). Like Mr. Ludlam, I have had my puzzle; and it was to compre"jbend why a majority -of- the House supported the ex- > ■ .minister's in this violent and most foolish course. At 1 last I puzzled it out! "'ln* the first place, I saw that it | ' m& % question about • all the spoils of power-— about ! •who should enjojf all - the offices of the General Gov^trnmept; and. that when the Governor himself had made Mr. Fitzg^era^^^Prinae^Mioister,'' with a fair prospect of obtaining ere long the whole direction of the Government, he had placed that gentleman jn a . position, which made it easy for him .to form a powei - ful party bent upon supporting him through thick and thin (" oh, oh," from / Mr. Ludlam). ,1 do not believe that Mr. Ludlam had any view to office ; he was influenced in another way, as J said just now, by happening to lodge at St. Kevin's ; but he was an uncompromising partisan of the bullying policy of the ex-ministers. 'Others, there can be no doubt, had office in view ; and &n the aetiylMCe, it is equally .ce/toin that the ex-ra,ip.-

irters and their supporters were so blind ts to think, that if they did but bully enough, the Governor would give way at last. Nor were there wanting amongst their ,staunchest supporters members who avowed their belief that the right policy for their party was one of intim^ dation towards the Governor, and thnt it would prove successful. One of them, Mr. Brown, when describing the Ministerial crisis in his own newspaper— for at Auckland they write in the newspapers without pretending that they do not (laughter) — complained of the Ministers* timidity, likened their faint-heartedness'to that of Sir Andrew Aguecheek with Olivia, and said that they had only been impelled to take the right bold course by staunch allies who had (I givethe very words) " put fire in their hearts and brimstone in their livers " (roars of laughter). It was by such means that their fury was sustained ; and in one case I have no doubt that Miey were urged on to desperate courses — I mean by the member for Wanganui, Dr. Featberston — with a view to an increase of the powers of the Provincial Governments through conflict in the General Assembly. However, all the bullying lailedof its object ; the Governor would not give way. Nor would the majority let the House go on with any business. So there was a dead lock (hear, hear). What was to be done ? After much consideration, the only course open to the Governor appeared to be that of proroguing the Assembly, but not for any long time ; only for a short time, but time enough for the cooling down of angry passions through reflection. Mr..\Ludlam. like others with whom he agrees in every thing, objects to the prorogation on two grounds— t^e manner of it, and its suddenness. As to the manner, namely by proolamation in the Government Gazette, the Constitution Act authorises the Governor to prorogue, but without prescribing in what manner. He seemed constitutionally justified in adopting any measure sufficient for- the purpose. The mode at home is by the Queen in person, or by CommUsioners appointed for the purpose, who meet the two Houses, and read to them a Proclamation declaring the Parliament prorogued. The lawyen who were consulted, declared that the mere form of proceeding was matter of indifference, so that the thing was done effectually. ' My own opinion it» the abstract leant to following British precedent ; but there were practical objections to that course. The Legislative Council was adjourned at the time; and there was,' I thought, some reason to fear, from the extreme excitement of -the ex-ministers and some of their supporters, that if the Governor in person went to the House of Representatives, he might be personally affronted. That impression was afterwards confirmed by Mr. Fitzgerald's declaration in the House* after it was prorogued, to the effect that if the Governor had prorogued it in person, he would have raised the old cry of "Privilege! Privilege 1" (hear, hear); 'jthe old cry," mark you, of the Long Parliament when that revolution began which ended in cutting off thohead of Charles the First (hear, hear, hear). On the whole, but especially because I deemed it prudent to avoid 'all risk of insult to the Representative of the Crownj I preferred the course of a proclamation in the Gazette, to be sent by Message to the House (cheers). Then with regard to the suddenness qf the act — the want, of notice— " the trick;" as Mr. Ludlam anl other* have called it — there can be no doubt either of the legal power of the Crown or a Governor to prorogue without notice, or of the propriety of doing so when the object is to put an end to great excitement in a legislative body. To show this, let me inform you that oneiof our last Wellington newspapers contains a report^ of proceedings in the Canadian Parliament, by which it appears that the first notice given to the House of Assem* bly of the Governor's intention to prorogue them, was a knock at their door by the nsher of the bjack rod, coming to announce the Governor's approach for that purpose (hear, hear) ; and some of you will doubtless recollect, that at a time of great heats, during the Reform Bill agitation, William the Fourth, sometimes called Reform Bill on account of his part in that measure, was advised — by such constitutional ministers as Lord Grey and Lord Brougham — to prorogue t the Parliament very suddenly ; and that when the officers of the household objected that the State horßes £mM not be put into, the State carriage in time, the King said — '•Nerermind; send for a hackney coach " (laughter and cheers)., The complaint, therefore, about t^e suddenness of the prorogation is all nonsense (hear,/ hear). The pacifying aim of that step, however, was far from being accomplished. The majority of the House no sooner suspected that the House was, or was about to be prorogued, than a scene of disgraceful violence ensued. The doors were locked, an ex minister pounded over the gallery railing followed by other niembers, members rushed at other members, and one bf them was ihrottled by another (much laughter, and 1 a cry of " Fib-him-well '"). I was not present at thftt scene, and my absence has been gravely censured. , It was the simplest thing in.the world. I alone of all jtbft members had seen the proclamation, and knew, that the Message contained a copy of it (hear, hear). r Of course I did not go to the House, because I knew that the Assembly was prorogued (cheers). Ofcour» I never dreamt of the turbulent proceedings of thq majority, nor could I have desired to witness them if; they had j been anticipated by me. I cannot sympathise in the fun which a reference to those lamentable proceedings is apt to occasion ; and I shall never speak pt think of them but seriously with regret 'and shame (hear, hear). Glad am I that I was not tljtere ; and I wish that Mr. Ludlam had not been there either (hear, hear). Doubtless, others who were there^ now wish that they had been absent (hear, bear). Circumstances now occurred, which induced me to withdraw from the position of his Excellency's temporary sdviser during the crisis. Ido not feel at liberty to describe them ; but if not restrained from doing so, I should put an end, once for ever, to all the talk about my having been " in league with the old officials." His Excellency then sent forDr.Featherston andDr.Monro, who gave someadvice, though I know not what. At any 1 ate they were ponsulti ed, but without being sworn in as advisers. The same thing afterwards happened with Mr. Fprsaith, whose adviceon the most important que&tionsjof policy and condnct was adopted ,by the Governor ; and before the adviser became a sworn member of the Executive Council (hear, hear). Neither Mr: Ludlani, nor Mr. Fox, nor the Independent, have complained of the unconstitutionally of advice so given by* any body but me (hear, hear). Of course not ; for wben a ministry .has resigned, during a ministerial crisis, responsible government is necessarily suspended, and the head of the Government must needs take advice about the choice of new ministers, and about his future policy, on which thß.choke,,qfjminJ!stew depends, from somebody who is not a minister.* All' this grumblfrig r ~abdut : the constitutional impropriety of my position as a temporary and unsworn adviser of the Governor, has no object but to hit at me, like Mr. Sewell's object when he said gravely in the House of Representatives that ' ' the blood would be on my own head" for acting so unconstitutionally (laughter and cheers). At length however, after consulting with many unsworn advisers, his Excellency chose new ministers, and adopted a general policy for the country. They have been called the ministry of the minority. The policy which * they recommended and undertook to carry out, was'set forth in his Excellency's speech on opening the second lession. As that policy was cordially supported by the* whole of the minority, myself included, perhaps you will allow me to run over its principal items. The first proposal was, that until complete ministerial responsibility could be lawfully established, there should be added to the Executive Council six members taken from the two Houses, and so selected that each of them should as far as possible be the organ of his Province in the Executi»e Government, all of them being of course subject to the obligation of resigning if they lost the confidence of the Assembly (hear, hear). It was next proposed to pass a' law authorising the Governor to establish complete responsible government, ,b,ut ,of course ( not till after (the law should have her Majesty'js assent (hear, hear,) Then came the proposal qf a law for converting the Legislative Council of Nominees into an .elected Senate. The next proposal was that of a law for equalising .thfl .representation of the people according to a provision, of the Constitution Act, which declares, .but whjch was overlooked by Sir George Grey, that every constituency in New Zealand .shall, as far as may be, consist^of\the same number of electors as all the other constituencies. This provision of the Constitution Act was, I know, framed with a ,view to guard against what has happened in New South tWales, where by means of gross inequality as.to numbers in the.jelectoral districts, a majority of .the so-called representatives of the people are chosen bj a minority of the electors. (bear, hear). The

i object of the new proposal was to prevent the.Execu- ! tive from making rotten boroughs, such as Wairarapa With its 42 electors, Wairtu with its handful of electors, and Akaroa with so few electors that the member is said to be returned by one public house (hear, hear). The next measure proposed was one for authorising the General Assembly, notwithstanding a provision in the Constitution Act to the contrary, to transfer to the Provincial Legislature the whole of its own' powers over the Waste Lands, so that the latter may make laws on that subject independently of the General Executive (hear, hear). Bills, were next proposed -for enabling the Provincial Governments to deal' with Provincial post offices and to establish and' maintain Provincial beacons and lighthouses (hear, hear).- "Next in order was the proposal of a measure which te me appeared highly desirable ; a law to prevent' placeholders, (excepting members of the Executive Council for. the purpose of carrying, on ministerial responsibility) from sitting in the House of Representatives. I am pcr r suaded that until such a law be passed it, will be easy for the Government of the day to corrupt a majority in that house (hear, hear) and that the people, with j^ view to their being at all times truly represented, are deeply interested in obtaining such a law (hear, hear). Such a law is needed also with regard to the Provincial Councils, in some of which, and remarkably in that of Wellington, it seems likely that a majority will consist of placeholders (hear, hear). The Governor next proposed a measure for preventing bribery and treating at elections ; a law which is needed in every country having representative institutions, and of which the necessity in this coutjtrtj h«s already began to appear (hear, hear). The majority in our Honse of Representatives thought otherwise ; for they rejected both proposals — both that for preventing corruption of the members, and that for preventing corruption of the electors (hear, hear). Then came a proposal with regard to the estimates to be framed' on the following principles, namely (I quote now from the Governor's speech) "the closest economy not inconsistent with efficiency ; no pay without work ;' pay in proportion to labour and capacity ; and the devotion of the largest possible amount of money to objects of of practical utlity to the people " (cheers) Instead of accepting this proposal, the House rejected it along with all the others, and passed -those estimates which Mr. Ludlam called " rascally, extravagant >A (hear, hear;. Yes, they were most extravagant,; and whose fault was that ? — it was the faull-^of the majority who could do as they pleased' (cheers). I turn now to a very important proposal by the h minority —'one relating to the, seat of government. .When ( Major Greenwood asked me at the beginning of the sessiou how responsible goJ vernment would affeot the North, I very well knew tha.t he, as well as the community whose confidence he enjoys, was thinking amongst other things about the place where, under « system of responsible government, {he General Assembly would meet. Nobody, however, liked to mention the .subject. I took the bull by" the horns, and declared that ip my opinion justice to the whole colony required that the Assembly should meet in the centre of the Islands. I , asked the Northern members what reason their rich and prosperous Province had to care about the small advantage of the expenditure'occasioned by the meeting of the Assembly there, and expressed a hope that they would not, for " the mere name ot the thing," wish to perpetuate such injustice as that of compelling members from 'the extreme South to travel 1000 miles in order to take their seats in the Assembly. But at the same time, Mas before explained by,me, the principle was earnwtly acknowledged, thatjjustice to Auckland requir«Mistinot arrangements with regard to that Province,*such as should satisfy her wants and wishes. In a word, I pointed to a compromise of the seat of government question. In pursuance of 'that idea, and of a rebolhtion which had been agreed to in piivate by ten out of the twelye Auckland members, the Governor now proposed that in case the seat of government were changed,' or the Assembly were called anywhere but at Auckland, that Province should have a Lieutenant-Governor at her own expense, and should have certain powers of distinct legislation for herself with regard to subjects of a general character. Mr. .Ludlam says that Tie objected, to that proposal on account of the " enormous expense " to the colony which it involved. Why, it involved no expense to the colony ; for the whole expense of the arrangement was to be borne by AucklandVone out of her Provincial revenue (cheers). Sure I ajn, however, that the fair and friendly discussion of Hhsse matters which I originated in the House, and the proposal which was made by his Excellency's speech at<the opening of the second session, have jconciliatedtopinion in Auckland towards a just settlement of the seat of Government question (cheers). But the -majority would not base it so, though they could not help assenting to another proposal of mine, whiGh was founded on the principle of justice to Auckland ; 1 mean'ttie reoolution passed almost uuanimously by the Houstywith regard to the Auckland share of the Compan3^s debt. , Mr. Ludlam accuses me of having " sold the ; South to ; the North," and of intending to hand over to Auckland j the whole government of the cojony : it is all ituff and nonsense (cheers). Recurring to the Governor'^speech, I I ask whether any Governor ev.er laid before a colonial Assembly, a policy to large, comprehensive, and liberal (cheent) ; and 1 venture to predict that, for y<ars and i years to come, that speech will be dug into by pc^tician* 1 'as a mine of sound principles and valuable suggestions ' with regard to the government of the colony (cheers). The majority would not, even listen to it with patience. They rejected it in the lump, on the alleged grouid that the Southern members were under the necessity pf returning to their homes by the next steamer, whica was then expected in a few days. They could not stop for a. month or six weeks in order to give the colon jj the .benefit of carrying into effect ,the policy proposes by £he minority (hea£, hear). T&e colony has not yfct a realization of that large and liberal scheme of .measuVes, j because the majority would not ,let as have it. Ndth- j ing good for the cojony was tp be done or attempted unless the whole power and patronage of the Government were handed over to Mr. Fitzgerald and tois friends (hear, hear,, hear). When this became plain, the ministry of the minority of course resigned. This was clearly their right course, unless the Governor" 1 ■should determine on an appeal to the people, which, considering his Excellency's position as a merely temporary administrator of the^ovejnraent, was not deemed expedient for the present. l£r. Forsaith and his .colleagues resigned, not by way of bullying the .Governor into concessions of mere power for themselves, but from respect to the principles of responsible government v (hear, hear). ' Fjpr the time, however, all respon-feible-governaiefifc-jisps snspended4-and- : w^e-r,etuws4-rtp the old state of .tbjfogs, in which there had not beeii even any means of .communication between the two Houses and the head of the Government. In our House, as the steamer was expected immediately, and a large majority of the Southern members were resolved to go away by her, come what might, we had to crowd into a few days, business which might properly have occupied as many weeks. , The most lamentable disorder ensued. The rules of the House, which .exist only for thg preservation of order, were deliberately set aside. Every body did what he pleased, and bow he pleased. After meeting in Select Committees from ten in the morning till noon, we satin the House always till midnight, and sometimes, till two or three o'clock-next morning>, The passage of the Estimates was a disgraceful scramble, j To my mind at any rate, the whole scene was so discreditable as, to be disgusting. Many of the particular items voted. were most extravagant 5 .and the general effect was that so much money was disposed of in hurry and, ignorance, that the Provincial revenues will be much/, less than was expected; and some of the Provinces will, be crippled in^their resources until this mess of disorder shall be pot to rights by another meeting of tile, Assembly (hear, hear). There is ooe item on whictt I desire to say « few words. I obtained' a Select .Committee on the subject of the expenses of the Assembly; and a majority of us agreed to ,she following 1 recommendations ; .that the members of the Legislative Council should not even be paid their expenses, but .thatTthep: high and honourable position in' the legisla-. ture should be marked by 1 their performance of. important public service at their own sole expense; that, considering actual circumstances, and that no- peculiar expense had been incurred by the Speaker of, either House, neither of them should have a salary,' but that $e, expenses of thel Speaker of the House^f* .Repfe* seata'tives should be paid like tliose of any qther mem-, her; and lastly, that tht expenses of the members of the people's House should be provided for on a liberal but not extravagant scale. On this last point, I have been reproached with, having betrayed the interests of

the people. • My own opinion is, that I did, as my intention certainly, was to do, what is greatly for the interest of' the people. There were members of the House witn such, small, pecuniary means, that if their expenses had not been provided, their visit to Auckland 1 would-havel almost ruined them — would have subjected them at any, rate, to great distress (hear, hear). If their expenses had not been paid, they would have re* signed><their. seats; and the choice of the people in filling the vacancies would have been confined to a class to sirhtfm ifilOO is a matter of "no consequence (hear, hear)', I think that the choice of the peqple in selecting-their representatives 'ought to be as free as possible -(cheers) ; and 1 have no mote fixed opinion than that tbetoiass of the people, and more especially the industrious, classes, can never' be truly represented in any.country uiless the plan of paying members enable the people toohoose men to whom any outlay of their private meansl is an object of serious consequence (hear, hear). 4lt is not " pay of members" one of the " six points of the Charter," whereby the working classes at home have isought to be truly represented in the House of Commons ? I believe that there is no more essential means of preventing a monopoly of the re.presehtation by f the richer classes, than a. liberal but not extravagant for defraying the expenses incurred by members in the performance of their duty; and therefore I totally differed from Mr. Fitzgerald and Dr. Featherston who objected to my proposal. That if was adopted by the House, I am truly glad. It has been said that the object of those who voted with me was to put money into their own pockets; now I say that our object was to enable the working classes to choose their members freely, and -even to send men of their own class to.- represfcpt them in the legislature (cheers). Instead of regretting or being ashamed of my part in this matter, lam proud of it (cheers). But it was not in my power to do much more in any way during the second session. My strength was soon worn out by the fatigues of almost perpetual labour and excitement; and at last, when able to attend the House at all, I could do little more than look on with vexation and shame. The same feelings arise whenever I look back on the proceedings of the Assembly as a whole. We cast away an excellent opportunity of scrying the people greatly and in a variety of ways ; and we have brought the very name of New Zealand into disgrace in the neighbouring colonies and at home (hear, hear). What the Imperial Parliament may think of oar doings, Remains to be seen, lam not quite without apprehension that they may deem us unfit fop the very free institutions which we have shown ourselves incapable of working properly. They may even see fit to suspend 'the Constitution without giving us another trial for the present (hear, hear). If so, I, for pne shall return to \ England, being altogether indisposed to live under ths | system of arbitrary rule which the Constitution has ] superseded. But I cannot say that we deserve muoh mercy. Nay, it appears to me that the neighbouring colonies, which praised our first proceedings in terms of respect nnd admiration, are justified in speaking of us, as they now do, with contempt and derision (hear, hear). But they little understand what 1 believe to have been the main cause of the break-down for the present of responsible and even representative government in the general affairs of New Zealand. I believe that the whole matter turned upon that question, of questions in new colonies— the question of the Waste Lands. That question affects every man in the colony more or less, and it deeply concerns the fortunes of many. I believe that it was at the bottom of the Ministerial crisis 5 for that the Fitzgerald Ministry resigned and sought to master the whole government, because they were afraid of being turned out through the adoption by ' the Legislative Council of a Waste Lands policy totally different from theirs. Somehow or other, out of our Legislative scramble, the more just and liberal policy of the minority has been extracted in a practical form. By this time, I doubt not, the Provincial Legislature of Auckland, acting under the provisions of the Waste Lands Act passed by the Assembly, and for which in particular we have to thauk the Legislative Council, has passed Regulations providing for the actual occupation of a large proportion of the lands in that part of the colony, and for an administration of the laud by which equality and fairness fo nil classes will be secured through the operation of publicity in all the business of the* Office («hoers). Bjr thpirjneasure, which I have little doubt hhs been wade- law t>j the assent of the Governor, effect has been given to the I principles of those Waste Lauds amendments of tniue, i which were so fiercely rejected by the majority (cheers.) j The Auckland Council has also added certajn provisions, in the form of remission of purchase — money in proportion to the cost of passage incurred by ' emigrants coming to settle in the Province ; aud it seems likely that these provisions, together with the certainty presented to emigrants of obtaining laud ,of the best quality, in the best position, without tfelay, and on very easy terms, will soon attract to the Province a consider- j able stream of emigration from Australia and the Mother Country (hear, hear). What wjll the other Provinces do ? At any rate, one of the items of the general policy of the minority, as set forth in His Excellency's speech — namely, the propriety of enlarging J the Provincial Councils by increasing the number of j members, and of fresh elections by the people before there | should be any dealing with the Waste Lands, is taking a shape of reality in the Provinces of Nelson, Canterbury, and Otago, whose Superintendents officially acknowledge the propriety of such a course, as the means of giving the people a voice with regard to laws for the disposal of Waste Lands (cheers.) In Otago and Canterbury, the Councils have already passed a law for adding Jo their own numbers (hear, hear).' At Auckland, the Council already numbers twenty-four members, and the Waste Lands policy which they have adopted, is thoroughly agreeable to the great majority of electors : to that in thait Province, neither nn jncrease of numbers nor fresh elections seem to be required ; but if they are required for Otago, Nelson, and Canterbury, is there auy reason yhy they shouid be withheld from the people of this Province ? (hear, hear.) I think not (cheers). There ;s still a subject, on which, though Mr. Ludlam has not alluded to it, I wish to address you briefly j I mean the Compensation matte?. .. With regard to that subjectl hu.ye spared no pains to do all that was in my power to fulfil mypromises to you the electors of the Hutt. You will bear in mind whatpasstd in the Provincial Council of Wellington. As the condition of the withdrawal by Mr. Rcnall of a resolution which we had .framed jn concert, tb,e Provincial Secretary engaged that when the Provincial Go vernment obtained power over ,the Waste Lands, they would appoint a^ commission to iuquire into the com penpation matter (Mr. Eenall " at all events, without reference to their power over the Waste Lands.") No; lor it was said distinctly that at the time they had no no-power over^the^ Waste Lands, and thaf until such power were-ol)t!ussci^'& r commission "cbujd; accomplish, nothing/ However, neither Mr. Renall nor I placed any great reliance on that promise, which I believed to have been very reluctantly given by Mr. Fitzherbert. I therefore went to Auckland fully intending to bring the whole subject before the House of Representatives. But it soon became plain to me that any proposal which I might make, would be negatived by the Fitzgeralg ministry and their majority; and I therefore deliberately abstained from exposing the cause to the damage of such a blow as a hostile resolution by the House. I therefore waited for a better opportunity of action ; and when the second ministry was formed, I brought the subject before them and the Governor. The result was the promise in his Excellency's ,-speech at the ( opening of the second session, that,' a Commission' Should be appointed, and the aotual appointment sub- ( frequently of the Commission whifih is now in force in Wellington, Nelson and New Plymouth (hear, hpar, hear). Not to detain you now on a matter which does not concern my defence against Mr. Ludlam's accusations, I will only say again that I did the best I could (cheer*). But with, regard to the future, let me add 'that though our Provincial Executive, on hearing of the Commission' appointed by his Excellency, lost no time in resolving to , appoint a Commission of their own, and though I am of course delighted when any who have totally differed from me become converts to my view, yet I cannot ,help smelling a dodge in this proceeding (laughter aUtl " hear, hear"; ; and I must say that I think the 'imcompensated wili act unwisely if they shut their eyes and open their mouths, waiting for what Mr. Fit#her!bert, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Brandon may send ttieuf ( Q £* r » hear). For myself I do not intend to abandon tliis matter (cheers). I will now conclude by notioiug specially each of , the charges, which Mr. Ludlarn has -brought against me. 'He says that I "destroyed Responsible Government;" -'Well, I certainly did much to establish it, and as certainly I did all in my power to prevent others from destroying it (cheers). I did indeed stand in the way of those others, when thfj

knocked down Government «- - nil power for themselves; and J shall never fegreth'aviing done so 'effectually (cheers^. But, say&'Mr. Lud~ lam, echoing Mr. Fox, I betrayed the- South totiheNorth ; whereas, according to|my view; Irffas-saqces*-ful in endeavouring to reconcile differences,between the N,orth and the Soatti;* and as^roof thereof I cite again the assent of thr Auckland community to that'suggea- 1 tion from the head of the Government) '•file- object ofc , which, w;as, to provide .withontjinj'nry Co; the j North for,' meetings of the General Legislature at jsqme- other placethan Auckland (hear} hear). But then, says Mr.Ludi lam, I walked oat oft the > House when Mr, Fitzgerald proposed, his resolutiqn about a cemrnl place -for meetings of the Assembly! But why did' I do so (hear, hear) 7 ' Because I_could not well -rote against the abstract proposition, which 1 believe to be only true and* just; ,and yet I was equally unwilling to take part with* Mr. Fitzgerald in a proceeding which appeared to me" calculated to undo .all that had been so happily done towards pitting an. end to differences between the South' and the'Korth, even on the subject of the seat of Go--verninecl (hear, hear). Let me explain farther that D had never heard of the intended resolution until Mr. Fitzgerald got up to move it; that I was writing at thetable, wholly unconscious of what he was about till heread the resolution J that the occasion wao the last day before the Assembly was finally prorogued, when theHouse was thorooghly exhausted, and many of the* members were often fast asleep j that there was scarcely any discussion of tins most, important question, and solittle importance was attached to Mr. Fitzgerald's proceeding, that no report of what passed has ever appeared in the newspapers (hear, hear). Such a question was not to be disposed of in that way. . Mr. Fitzgerald nerer thought of. bringing*it forward-. when he was in power (hear, hear). I/elt that&s objects tr,ere to lay in some stock of popularity for:, himself in the South, perhaps to irritate the .North, which he disliked because it disliked him, and, very likely, to lay a trap whereby I might be placed^ the 1 awkward position of helping to undo what I had" taken so much pains to accomplish with regard to justice and harmony between the two great divisions of the colony. I was not to be so caught (cheers). The question will never be lettled in that absurd way, but deliberately, after ample discussion, on the principles of justice and fair compromise: andiunootner way will I ever entertain the question (cheers). It will not be decided by a mere hasty rote'in .an j exhausted House, ,and at the very close; of a prostrated session, at a time of, great excitement and disorder, ,but in si totally different manner, and on 'considerations of justice and sound policy, which neTer entered into the head of Mr. Fitzgerald, but which. l believe that the people of Auckland will not reject when the question shall he submitted to them in a right sjirit (cheers). But let me turn to another charge-^tfiat o f ''treachery" and t( .cruelty" to Mr. Fitzgerald and Mr, Sewell, in first promising them my support, and then opposing them. My previous narative of events has, I think, disposed,, of that point (hear, hear). Save I not as fully explained Mr. Lndlam's "puzzle" with regard to my' having.been the " sole adviser" whilst the Governor acted on my advice with the *< concurrence and support" of the* members of t his Executive Council ? (hear, hear). Bufc now comes Major Greenwood's Electoral Bill (hear,, hear) ; and here I have to answer Mr. Fox and others as well as Mr. Ludlam. The principle of the Bill was, exactly that of the Governor's recommendation that electoral, districts should be equalized according to' the 41st clause of the Constitution Act.- Of that principleI entirely and most cordially approved; and when the* second reading came on — that is, the. occasion when -only the principle of a Bill is considered, and not th& detailß-r-I warmly supported the measure, as "" the only means, of abolishing our rotten boroughs, and giving; to the people at large a full and fair representation iv, the Assembly. With regard to the details, which ought not to have appeared in the Bill at that stage,' I objected to them in toto, pointed out that provision musf be made in Committee for settling the new Electoral Districts on a scrutiny noj of votes, but pf electors, and even laughed at Major Greemjrqod's calculation which* gave 21 members for Auckland piear.hearj. In voting: for the second readjng, I voted only for the.principle qtt the Bill — for equalizing tht representation according Up the— Constitution Act — and expressed .ijnfi intention tp> oppose in Committep'alliretftJl'sirhlcli -n^nrinoon«ist*q|r with that object .(hear, hear). My. own opinion was then, aud is now!, that a scrutiny of electors will not add) anything to the representation of Anpldanfl;' but that point bad no weight with me either way. I cared nothing about the Provincial proportions, but thought onjy -of that equal proportion anrongstall the elepforal district* of the colony, which alone can give a true representation; of the people according to the number of electors (cheers); In particular, I hnji tm eye fo the representation ,o| people rather than of sheep (langhter and cheers). , The: fuct is that jtois mqst unfounded, andS silly, chdfge ljtts seen got wp to damage me, like theothers in. making which Mr. Laullam po- operates with Mr. ?Fo^ and his allies (hear, hear), Mr. Ludlam objects to being coupled with Mr. Fox. He says that they do not pulL together. It is plain that tfiey do, but like two horses 1 <abreas| in a cart, pulling together but biting and kicking each other at the. same time (laughter) ; and the combined pulling is all against met (cheers)., I have nearly done, but it remains for me |to notice jthe object of fbis, meeting. You have been called to hear all sorts of accusations' against me. It happens frpm my parf |n recent events, and from Hie threats of .Mr. Bevana T and others that I shonJd, be punished for it by being turned out of the representation of the tjutt, that the colony is looking on— waiting to see what would happen > when I appealed before you. Mrw Ludlam insisted that we should " fight it out" in your presence : but I have only defended myself, and hare .carefully avoided making any. sort of attack upon, •him (chepis). lie has my good opinion in many respects; h ahd notwi£hstandiughiB animosity towards me, 1 am in hopes' thaf . ffe may .co-operate usefully in the 'Provincial ,Couucil (cheers)., I amfar from asking you to xjondemn, him j but let me confess that after having 'been' assailed by so many, and 1 with suph virulence by others, as well as Mr, Ludlam, I ~shoal'd be pleased to'receive,from yon something in the form of an acquittal i h> your opinion of the charges brought against me. And of course, unless I can be. .satisfied that I enjoy your confidence with regard to the future, it will be my duty* in accordance with the pledge on which my seat is held, to return into your hands the trust which yom have reposed in me. My friend, Mr. Eenall, «, J believe, of opinion tliat you are incapable of fornang any judgment on these matters ; if it were so, I should say that you were udfit to choose representatives, (jhear^ htar). I believe that, in pursuance of that tow, he> contemplates some " middle course," something- in the form of telling Mr. Ludlam and me that we are both in'tne"riglitr^e»^ e " : ' rrfaicll V * think, wonld belike rjing to si» between two chairs, and so falling- to, the; ground (laughter and cheers). However, it is not for me to suggest what you should do; and I will now therefore conclude^ repeating that some expression of your' approbation would be very agreeable to me, and hat if you should express any disapprobation oy- - distrust of me, I shall feel, myself bound to retire from, your service (cheers). ; - After borne discussion it was agreed to tdjonra the meeting to Thursday evening.

fcx " Gypsy." 1 RQ^EWOOD COTTAGE PIANO* ■ „ FORTE, b^Luff-and Son Music S,tqols, Violins" Dec. 9, ifcA. fSMITH-& WILLCOX.

- !'! ' Wellington Market*. RETAIL PRICED DEC. & .1854. First; Flour, £30 per ton ; Bread, per 21b. loaf, 8d. ;' Beef, 7d. & &f per Ib. ; Mutton* 7<J. to 9d. per lb; * Bork, Bd. to 9d. per lb. ; Fowls, per pair, 4s.' 6d;; Ducks, per pair, 6s. ; Geese/: 7s. eacHV Turkey, Bs. each; Fresh Butt'ei*. 4». 6dLperlW,; Salt Batter, 2s. Od. perlb:'; Potatoes, £93. per ton; Kggs, 2s. Od. per doz. ; Cheese, New >, Zealand,. Is. 4d. per lb.; Bathurst, Is. perlb.'; Maize, 12s. per bushel; Ale, 2s. 4d.' per 'gallon; Ham and Bacon, Is. to Is. 2d. per J ">^, ; F.irewood per load, £1 .